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The thread that won't die™

(yes, I know I just gave it more life, but I just think it's funny that I'm constantly seeing an almost 10 year old thread in the top of the new posts all the time)
Just reflects the profound importance of this thread to the entire world, and the outstanding quality of the comments in it.

😇

more drastically they could stop offering 16Gb RAM as an upgrade.
Can't see that working.

My main wish for the Mini is a 32GB RAM option (and fix the BT issue). Any more than that (more power, 120Hz graphics, more ports, etc) is a nice bonus, but not necessary for my needs.

If the M1 Mini had a 32GB option, I would have bought one the day they came out.
 
Reckon the Mac Studio M1 Max would almost certainly do it for you.

32 GB RAM Mac Mini almost certainly not coming.
Couldn’t have said it better myself, if you’re willing to pay for 32gb your probably need 512gb storage at a minimum. You’re then close enough to paying for the base model Mac Studio and you get the better cpu, more ports, and radios that work etc.
 
Just reflects the profound importance of this thread to the entire world, and the outstanding quality of the comments in it.

😇


Can't see that working.

My main wish for the Mini is a 32GB RAM option (and fix the BT issue). Any more than that (more power, 120Hz graphics, more ports, etc) is a nice bonus, but not necessary for my needs.

If the M1 Mini had a 32GB option, I would have bought one the day they came out.
Think that’s an edge case as far as Apple are concerned and it’s partly due to the way the m1 architecture is sorted.

See my other post for how the M1 mini could be cut down as an entry level machine when the M2 (with full options) comes out.
 
If the new mini has a 32 gig option I think it’ll seriously impact studio sales , apple won’t let that happen

I think the new mini will be all about size , keeping it ultra small and cool , the m2 will probably deliver all that , speed though on the mini - that’ll be intentionally throttled I’m guessing..
 
If the new mini has a 32 gig option I think it’ll seriously impact studio sales , apple won’t let that happen.

I do think too many people underestimate just how powerful a base M1 SoC is. They just look at the synthetic benchmarks and go "weak sauce" when there are people doing serious video, audio and software coding work on Mac mini and MacBook Air / 13.3" MacBook Pros every day.

So offering a 32GB option on a MacBook Air or Mac mini likely would have a negative effect on base-model MacBook Pro 14" and Mac Studio sales, though I do think people's belief that "M1 is for casuals" would still kick most people up to the MBP and Studio models because they feel they have to have M1 Pro or M1 Max to do "real work".
 
I do think too many people underestimate just how powerful a base M1 SoC is. They just look at the synthetic benchmarks and go "weak sauce" when there are people doing serious video, audio and software coding work on Mac mini and MacBook Air / 13.3" MacBook Pros every day.

So offering a 32GB option on a MacBook Air or Mac mini likely would have a negative effect on base-model MacBook Pro 14" and Mac Studio sales, though I do think people's belief that "M1 is for casuals" would still kick most people up to the MBP and Studio models because they feel they have to have M1 Pro or M1 Max to do "real work".
Looking at different chess benchmarks it’s easy to see how slow the M1 is. Even at things like integer math it is extreme slow.
 
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Looking at different chess benchmarks it’s easy to see how slow the M1 is. Even at things like integer math it is extreme slow.

And yet people who were previously using $5000+ iMac Pros to edit video, compose music and write software switched to M1 Mac desktops and laptops because it was faster at all of those tasks. *shrug*
 
I wonder if there is any truth to the claim that iPhone 14 will use A15 while iPhone 14 Pro/Max will use A16. That's a departure from prior iPhone releases, but truthfully it's not a big deal since even A14 is blistering fast for a phone. The other claim is that they will all get 6 GB RAM, but that iPhone 14 will get LPDDR4X while iPhone 14 Pro Max will get LPDDR5, which is a meaningless difference for most users. Interestingly, there is also the claim that there will be an iPhone 14 Max non-Pro. This translates to this iPhone product grid:

iPhone 14 - A15, 6 GB LPDDR4X
iPhone 14 Max - A15, 6 GB LPDDR4X
iPhone 14 Pro - A16, 6 GB LPDDR5
iPhone 14 Pro Max - A16, 6 GB LPDDR5

My wife is looking for a new iPhone this year, and it seems an iPhone 14 Max with A15 and 6 GB LPDDR4X (if such a machine were actually to be released) would be a perfect upgrade from her 2018 iPhone XR with A12 and 3 GB RAM. Storage probably doesn't matter that much since we use iCloud and I expect even the lowest end (non-SE) model will get at least 128 GB storage.

So, why do I mention this? Because I suspect the Mac mini will follow this as well, getting M2 with two LPDDR4X chips, for a maximum of 16 GB RAM just like M1. However, that would be OK if Apple did actually eventually sell an M2 Pro with 32 GB. @sublunar suggested the Mn Pro could either be in a Mac mini or in a Mac Studio, but I would guess it would be in a Mac mini, and the 32 GB model wouldn't be that much cheaper than the Mac Studio, pushing the upsell for people to upgrade to the M1 Max Mac Studio.

Right now there isn't much strength in the upsell from the M1 Mac mini to the M1 Max Mac Studio since there is such a huge gap between them. An M2 Pro Mac mini with 32 GB option would make for a much better upsell potential.

This rumoured iPhone model grid with A15 at the low end also lends credence to the idea that the Mac mini could retain M1 at the low end, but I'm personally guessing it will start with M2. Also, if true, it will be nice to see the filling out of the iPhone line, with the new lower end Max option. That portends well for a filled out Mac mini line too.
 
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An iPhone 14 Max will sell exceptionally well since the general smartphone market favors larger phones and this will open up sales for people who wanted a 6.7" iPhone but could not stretch the budget to a Pro Max. I bought the Pro Max primarily for the 6.7" display so I would probably be happy with an iPhone Max, but I intend to continue to stay with the Pro Max since I can afford it and it will have better tech.

As to the non-Pro models sticking with A15, speculation is this is due to both the higher price TSMC will be charging for the A16 (as it will be on the new process) and supply chain concerns in securing hundreds of millions of A16s.

Supply chain concerns are also behind MCK's comments that the 2022 MacBook Air would stay on M1 and therefore the 2022 Mac mini and the 2022 13.3" MBP would be the first M2 models because they sell in such lower volumes compared to the MBA.

Supply chain constraints with M1 Pro might also be why it has not been offered outside of the MacBook Pros while lighter demand for Max on the laptops has allowed Apple to offer it on Mac Studio as the base SoC option.
 
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I wonder if there is any truth to the claim that iPhone 14 will use A15 while iPhone 14 Pro/Max will use A16. That's a departure from prior iPhone releases, but truthfully it's not a big deal since even A14 is blistering fast for a phone. The other claim is that they will all get 6 GB RAM, but that iPhone 14 will get LPDDR4X while iPhone 14 Pro Max will get LPDDR5, which is a meaningless difference for most users. Interestingly, there is also the claim that there will be an iPhone 14 Max non-Pro. This translates to this iPhone product grid:

iPhone 14 - A15, 6 GB LPDDR4X
iPhone 14 Max - A15, 6 GB LPDDR4X
iPhone 14 Pro - A16, 6 GB LPDDR5
iPhone 14 Pro Max - A16, 6 GB LPDDR5

My wife is looking for a new iPhone this year, and it seems an iPhone 14 Max with A15 and 6 GB LPDDR4X (if such a machine were actually to be released) would be a perfect upgrade from her 2018 iPhone XR with A12 and 3 GB RAM. Storage probably doesn't matter that much since we use iCloud and I expect even the lowest end (non-SE) model will get at least 128 GB storage.

So, why do I mention this? Because I suspect the Mac mini will follow this as well, getting M2 with two LPDDR4X chips, for a maximum of 16 GB RAM just like M1. However, that would be OK if Apple did actually eventually sell an M2 Pro with 32 GB. @sublunar suggested the Mn Pro could either be in a Mac mini or in a Mac Studio, but I would guess it would be in a Mac mini, and the 32 GB model wouldn't be that much cheaper than the Mac Studio, pushing the upsell for people to upgrade to the M1 Max Mac Studio.

Right now there isn't much strength in the upsell from the M1 Mac mini to the M1 Max Mac Studio since there is such a huge gap between them. An M2 Pro Mac mini with 32 GB option would make for a much better upsell potential.

This rumoured iPhone model grid with A15 at the low end also lends credence to the idea that the Mac mini could retain M1 at the low end, but I'm personally guessing it will start with M2. Also, if true, it will be nice to see the filling out of the iPhone line, with the new lower end Max option. That portends well for a filled out Mac mini line too.

As I mentioned before, we will know as soon as the Mac Mini gets a redesign what the thermal limits will be - for what it’s worth I think if Apple don’t redesign the Mini then it keeps the door open for M1 Pro in there as the PSU is rated for an Intel i7 with 65w TDP - much more than the current M1 CPU draws.

People needing 32Gb but only an M1 will be an acceptable loss as far as Apple are concerned a mythical 32Gb M1 Mini would cost $1499 but you still only have 2 Thunderbolt ports, 2 USB-A ports, and slightly dodgy Wi-Fi along with gigabit Ethernet.

That extra $500 gets you 10 gig ethernet (yes, not many will use that), loads of ports, expected better Wi-Fi, and a shedload of extra performance.

I don’t think the gap is big enough for Apple to address with their supply chain issues because we all know an M1 Pro Mini would be an instant buy for loads of people who might then be annoyed when the waiting list is gigantic - and might steal from the more popular Macbook Pros.

The point about recycling the A15 CPU for the non Pro iPhones is also a solid one, if Apple redesign the chassis then it gives a new selling point for buyers. The Max size at a more affordable price is bound to sell well.

I imagine a 14 Max would have plenty of buyers who won’t mind that the CPU hasn’t been upgraded (first chance to buy one that cheap) but I believe the small print will be that it would actually use the CPU variant from this year‘s 13 Pro which has 5 GPU cores - more than the regular 13 which has the standard 4 GPUs.

In effect it’s an increase in GPU performance - not just a pure carry over from the standard 13. So the 14 non pro models will be the current 13 Pros with fewer cameras and cheaper materials.

Doesn’t sound so bad when you look at it that way does it?

An iPhone 14 Max will sell exceptionally well since the general smartphone market favors larger phones and this will open up sales for people who wanted a 6.7" iPhone but could not stretch the budget to a Pro Max. I bought the Pro Max primarily for the 6.7" display so I would probably be happy with an iPhone Max, but I intend to continue to stay with the Pro Max since I can afford it and it will have better tech.

As to the non-Pro models sticking with A15, speculation is this is due to both the higher price TSMC will be charging for the A16 (as it will be on the new process) and supply chain concerns in securing hundreds of millions of A16s.

Supply chain concerns are also behind MCK's comments that the 2022 MacBook Air would stay on M1 and therefore the 2022 Mac mini and the 2022 13.3" MBP would be the first M2 models because they sell in such lower volumes compared to the MBA.

Supply chain constraints with M1 Pro might also be why it has not been offered outside of the MacBook Pros while lighter demand for Max on the laptops has allowed Apple to offer it on Mac Studio as the base SoC option.
I had also heard of the TSMC raising prices for the process that the A16 will be built on so it makes sense there too.

In effect the supply chain concerns are going have more than their usual say in marketing activities going forward for a year or two at least and the rumoured amendments to the iPhone plans may inform what happens on the Mac side of things.

I had a look at the deluge of M2 Macs being tested - I’m a bit late to that thread - and my feeling is some or all of those might be testing models as proof of concept. They don’t all have to be scheduled for launch at all and the launch of the Mac Studio might well have meant the axe for the M1 Pro Mini.

If Apple had M1 Max Mac Studio and M1/M2 Mac Mini as options then a certain percentage with upsell to the Mac Studio - if they went with M1 Pro Mac mini as an in between model then Apple could expect that one to sell absolute shedloads but the supply chain might have had words to say about ability to fulfill that order plus taking CPU allocation away from the more profitable 14” and 16” Macbook Pros.

A secondary point would see the M2 CPU being used in the iMac 24” in due course. The power brick can apparently cope with M1 Pro but they would seriously have to release that before any M2 CPUs come out to avoid confusing folks. Perhaps it might be available on a range topping SKU to start with just like the original Retina screen was.

And interestingly, the 4 USB-C ports currently on the back of the mid and high SKU iMacs could all potentially convert to Thunderbolt 4 if M1 Pro were to be used. Would Apple then be persuaded to put M1 Max as an BTO option into the 24” iMac? Maybe it’s a question Apple will answer when the full M2 range comes out in due course.

Perhaps it’s easier to imagine a pricey M1 Pro Mac Mini being plugged into a Mac Studio Display.

The phone theory just strengthens my point about Apple potentially leaving the M1 MBA and Mini around a bit longer as base spec models that can be bought off the shelf. They are going to get bought at the cheap price points regardless.

M2 can be reserved for MacBook Pro 13” and higher spec mini - which would coincidentally mean the final demise of the upper spec Intel Mini. $1099 should buy you 16Gb RAM and 512Gb SSD in an upper spec mini which leaves the traditional $699 and $899 SKUs (8/256 and 8/512) on sale.

If Apple feel they have to tart them up with redesigns to justify continuing with the same old CPU then they could do this:

1. Redesign MBA but keep M1 CPU, could there be scope for higher SKU M2 with 16Gb RAM and 512Gb SSD?
2. Redesign Mac Mini but M1 CPU continues as lower spec SKUs that you buy off the shelf, M2 replaces upper SKU but starts with 16Gb RAM, 512 SSD to raise average selling price.
3. MBP keeps existing design, Touch Bar and all, but gets M2. The model number therefore remains the same.

The design side of things has been rumoured already but if Apple are willing to return to Good, Better, Best sensibility they could simply add top SKU M2 to each of their existing MBA and Mini lines, perhaps even the MBP if they decide to go M2 throughout for that one.
 
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and yet, I can buy a new 32GB Mac Mini* today if I'd like, so I don't think one can firmly predict that.

*with Intel.
Yeah, while I'm guessing an M2 Mac mini might still have the 16 GB RAM limitation (because I am guessing it will also be limited to two-chip LPDDR4X, not for technical reasons but for practical and marketing reasons), I also hold out hope for an Mn Pro Mac mini release within the year.
 
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Yeah, while I'm guessing an M2 Mac mini might still have the 16 GB RAM limitation (because I am guessing it will also be limited to two-chip LPDDR4X, not for technical reasons but for practical and marketing reasons), I also hold out hope for an Mn Pro Mac mini release within the year.

I think the M2 will have to move to LPDDR5 if they want to stick with the same chips and bus width because going from 8 to 10 core GPU will need it. The current M1 gets bandwidth bottle necked as is.

That said there are still other options, like LPDDR4X does support 12GB modules so a 24GB machine could be doable which would be an interesting option:

I still think moving from 8/16GB to 12/24GB seems like a reasonable move, but idk the cost and availability of such chips.
 
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I think it's been mentioned in other Mac mini threads so I thought I'd mention it here - the Mac Studio could have been designed in a number of ways prior to release but it seems to retain the 7.7 inch width and depth of the current 2020 (silver) M1 Mac mini. The Studio is 3.7 inches tall while the Mini is 1.4 inches tall.

The other external difference aside from size appears to be the ventilated foot of the Studio and I can only imagine that wifi and bluetooth issues have been sorted although the reported coil whine issues with the Studio might be be something to keep an eye on.

The design choice suggests that the Mini will retain the current form factor to that the two machines look like they are part of a family - which they do at the moment. It would be a strange design decision to bring out the Mac Studio to make it look like the existing Mac mini (and attract criticism for perceived lazy design) before changing the Mac mini to be a polycarbonate topped radio transparent all new design.

In addition, with the current forecast for a recession and dicey times economy wise for a couple of years it wouldn't be massive surprise for Apple to keep the Mini price low by retaining the current form factor and just doing a CPU bump to M2 when available. It would mean spare parts will continue to be manufactured for the long lived 2018 model for some time to come.

However, I was thinking that Apple putting M2 into the Mini might not qualify as a new model (the iMac 2019 and 2020 models retained the A2115 model number despite jumping from 8th Gen to 10th Gen Intel CPUs) if they don't change the case design.

There were 3 models listed in the Eurasian database - A2615 is Mac Studio, which leaves A2686 and A2681 - one of which is reportedly a laptop.

For comparison, M1 Mini is A2348, M1 MacBook Pro 13" is A2338, M1 MacBook Air 13" is A2337. The M1 Pro 14" Macbook Pro is A2442, the M1 Pro 16" MacBook Pro is A2485. There's not much insight to be gained from looking at model numbers for a pattern but what I could suggest is that the 2 remaining model numbers might suggest M2 as a common factor as they are relatively close together.

We already have arguments about whether or not Apple would change the MBA or MBP as the laptop but what if the desktop was actually the Mac Pro - coming by the end of the year?

That leaves us with a scenario where Apple have decided to keep the Mac mini cheap by just putting the M2 in it in October and calling it a day plus one of the laptops is getting a redesign (but not the other one).

Or the Mac Pro SKU hasn't been put into the Eurasian database yet, and we have a scenario where the desktop SKU could be:

a. 27" M1 Pro iMac
b. M1 Pro Mac mini (because the existing case can cope with it)

The b. argument might be supported if the M1 Pro is considered sufficiently different to the M1 to warrant a design change (along with model number) while the 14" and 16" MacBook Pros don't differentiate between M1 Pro and M1 Max CPUs I've said that it doesn't make marketing sense to offer an M1 Pro in the Mini in case it seriously cannibalises a base Mac Studio.

I'll still basically say that Apple may want people who need 32Gb in a desktop to go to a Mac Studio.

But I've said before Apple could leave the M1 CPU as 8/256 and 8/512 SKUs bought off the shelf at retailers and then replace the i5 model with an M2 CPU in October when other M2 products are launched - with all the same ports but starting with 16/512 base spec. That would mean an instant upsell for people looking for the latest hardware, especially if Apple keep the form factor the same to satisfy the co-location guys but do some material tweaks to improve radio transparency for wifi and bluetooth going forward.

It's a situation which might ape the reported way that Apple may introduce the iPhone 14 and differentiate it with the iPhone 14 Pro - basically use an older chipset wrapped in a new case.
 
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Time to pull out this old chart. Everything here was a G3 but the "consumer" models were running weaker CPUs and had far less GPU horsepower. Fast forward to the 2010s and Apple neglected the Mac for half a decade so they brought out the 2018 Mini and iMac Pro to fill a mystery square between Pro and Consumer.
It had Pro features: a beefy i7, 64GB, eGPU support, 4x Thunderbolt 3 ports. It was also consumer by design with an iGPU, gigabit ethernet, and small base storage.

iMac Pro was Pro specwise but fell into their pretend Consumer category.

With the transition to the M I think Apple is really going to go back to 1999. The iMac, Mini, and Air will forever be locked to lower specs and have hard ram limitation. Studio, MBP, and mythical Pro will fill out the Pro squares.


The M2 will most likely have the 16GB limitation. They may phase out 8GB but 16GB may be the only option.

grid.jpg
 
The M1 is a 100% a 1.0 product. Everyone who waits will be rewarded either through better performance, more RAM, fixed BT problems, etc.
 
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The M1 is a 100% a 1.0 product. Everyone who waits will be rewarded either through better performance, more RAM, fixed BT problems, etc.
Yes, everyone who waits should eventually see a product with increased specs. The lost opportunity cost of waiting I see as the bigger issue. If I had waited and passed up the "1.0 product" I would have had a year and a half so far without the fun of a new M1 system. When the "2.0" comes out will you advise everyone to wait for the "3.0" ?
 
I reckon it’ll be about thermals rather than outright speed

Then they can put it in a pretty small box , maybe appletv size ?
 
I reckon it’ll be about thermals rather than outright speed

Then they can put it in a pretty small box , maybe appletv size ?
The main reason I don't see them decreasing the size of the chassis that drastically is the PSU and thermals. They kept a sizable vent on the back of the M1 so there must be a need for constant passive cooling on the Mini.

I could see them bringing the chassis down to be as small as the Lenovo Tiny with an internal PSU. It would require some retooling and a more expensive/efficient power supply. It ultimately may not be worth it to though.
Getting it down to Nano size without an external PSU like the iMac I believe would be impossible.
Lenovo-M920x-Tiny-34.jpg
Lenovo-ThinkCentre-M90n-Nano-Compare-Size.jpg
 
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