The new Mac mini is almost certainly coming

[Boil]

None of Apple's products makes any sense (financially) when you buy all memory and storage upgrades. You can always double the price. That's necessary so that irresponsibly rich people know what to buy. There's still a huge gap between the Mac mini and the Mac Studio.

Mac mini with M1 $699 − $1,699 for 8-core/16GB/2TB

24" iMac with M1 $1,299 − $2,499 for 8-core/16GB/2TB

13" MBAir with M2 $1,199 − $2,499 for 10-core/24GB/2TB

14" MBPro with M1-Pro $1,999 − $5,099 for 16-core/32GB/8TB
14" MBPro with M1-Max $2,899 − $5,899 for 32-core/64GB/8TB

16" MBPro with M1-Pro $2,499 − $5,299 for 16-core/32GB/8TB
16" MBPro with M1-Max $3.099 − $6,099 for 32-core/64GB/8TB

Mac Studio with M1-Max $1,999 − $4,999 for 32-core/64GB/8TB
Mac Studio with M1-Ultra $3,999 − $7,999 for 64-core/128GB/8TB

Well, duh, everyone knows about the Apple Tax in regards to RAM & SSD BTO upgrades...

I think you may have misinterpreted my post as one against a Mn Pro Mac mini, if you look at some of my other posts you will see I am very much a proponent for the Mn Pro Mac mini...!

As for your listing the costs of Apple products, why...? I have been to the Apple website, I know their RAM & SSD upgrade pricing is ridiculous...

As to the gap between Mac mini & Mac Studio; my very argument in many of my past posts in regards to the Mac mini...

But regardless of all that, once one or two upgrades are specified, the case for a Mac Studio is much stronger...

 

[Gudi]

But regardless of all that, once one or two upgrades are specified, the case for a Mac Studio is much stronger...

The vast majority of customers would not even look at a Mac Studio for three reasons. It's incredibly ugly. The base price is way too high. And it doesn't have a screen. The case for the Mac mini "Pro" is a little bit more memory, more graphics and more i/o. Just enough so that people can feel safe, their Mini will last them a long time. Nobody wants a Mac Studio and you can not make a case for it. Those who want a Studio (1% of all sales) already got one. Most people want a "Prosumer" Mac mini right in-between consumer and professional. The Mac Studio is too much.

It's as if someone is looking for a nice, fast and comfortable family car and you tell them the cheapest Porsche isn't much more expensive.😳

 

[Boil]

The vast majority of customers would not even look at a Mac Studio for three reasons. It's incredibly ugly. The base price is way too high. And it doesn't have a screen. The case for the Mac mini "Pro" is a little bit more memory, more graphics and more i/o. Just enough so that people can feel safe, their Mini will last them a long time. Nobody wants a Mac Studio and you can not make a case for it. Those who want a Studio (1% of all sales) already got one. Most people want a "Prosumer" Mac mini right in-between consumer and professional. The Mac Studio is too much.

It's as if someone is looking for a nice, fast and comfortable family car and you tell them the cheapest Porsche isn't much more expensive.😳

Dude, I am not saying folks should buy a Mac Studio over a Mn Pro Mac mini...

I have been yammering on about a M1 Pro Mac mini pretty much since the 2020 M1 Mac mini was released, and then switched to yammering on about a M2 Pro Mac mini once it became clear we were not going to get a M1 Pro Mac mini...

None of my recent posts in this thread have been trying to "make a case for the Mac Studio", I am just pointing out the logic that is the probable pricing of a M2 Pro Mac mini, and if one adds a couple upgrades, they might as well get a base Mn Max Mac Studio...

Believe me, I wish Apple would lower the cost of their upgrades, and I wish the full-die M2 Pro Mac mini would start at the current price of the still-hanging-in-there 2018 Intel Mac mini, but it most likely will not...

 

[Gudi]

I am just pointing out the logic that is the probable pricing of a M2 Pro Mac mini, and if one adds a couple upgrades, they might as well get a base Mn Max Mac Studio...

And your probable pricing is probably way too high. It will start at $999 and barely touch $1,999 when it's completely maxed out. Sure you would get a Mac Studio for that money, but than you are back at 512 GB SSD and you're penalized with a big lump of aluminum and a way too fast CPU. There's no overlap. You either want to maximize performance or storage space.

 

[Chancha]

TL;DR = The M2 Pro Mac mini only makes sense if it is stock or only has minimal upgrades...?

That I am afraid is not very true for many potential mini buyers. I got a base Mac Studio, it is a great machine, but to be honest the M1 Max simply does not need that beefy of a cooling system and then also the giant PSU. Essentially they just retrofit the M1 Max into a chassis that was meant for the TDP of the M1 Ultra class of Apple Silicon, but only offer the M1 Max option to push down the entry price of the base, and to broaden the buyer spectrum to warrant the existence of the line up which was an oddly niche space for Apple to walk into in the first place.

The M2 Pro mini if it exists as rumour suggests, it will inherit the Intel mini form factor, that is much easier to be handled both on desk or in a network rack (it is less than 1U high). The Intel mini's heat envelop and the PSU rating should have the M2 Pro well covered as well. Then having 4 Thunderbolt ports also greatly reduces the I/O potential difference between the M1 mini vs the base Studio. Even the 10GbE is just a 100 dollar BTO option and it's literally the same Auntie NIC.

So together with form factor, power budget, having enough I/O potential, pricing tiers, the M2 Pro mini makes a lot of sense at least with the base to middle configs. It only starts to tread into Studio territory when you deck up storage and RAM upgrades against the base Studio.

 

[Boil]

And your probable pricing is probably way too high. It will start at $999 and barely touch $1,999 when it's completely maxed out. Sure you would get a Mac Studio for that money, but than you are back at 512 GB SSD and you're penalized with a big lump of aluminum and a way too fast CPU. There's no overlap. You either want to maximize performance or storage space.

A maxed out M1 Mac mini is $1800; a M2 Pro Mac mini will have a price bump for the M2-family SoC alone, a higher RAM limit, and (most likely) a higher storage limit; add in the $100 bump for 10GbE and it would be easy to break past the $2000 entry for the base M1 Max Mac Studio...

Which is the point I have been making all along...!

And the point regarding the lower SSD specs for the Mac Studio (compared to an upgraded M2 Pro Mac mini), I have been saying that all along as well...

I have neglected to take into consideration the Mac Studio chassis & PSU, two items which are most likely a higher cost than the Mac mini chassis & PSU...

So yeah, maybe there is some room for the pricing on a M2 Pro Mac mini to move downwards from my estimated $1400/$1500 starting point...

Taking a lower BOM into account, Apple would probably start the M2 Pro Mac mini at the current price of the base 2018 Intel Mac mini with a $100 surcharge for the M2 Pro SoC, so $1200...?

That is an extra $300 available towards upgrades before bumping into the base M1 Max Mac Studio pricing...

That I am afraid is not very true for many potential mini buyers. I got a base Mac Studio, it is a great machine, but to be honest the M1 Max simply does not need that beefy of a cooling system and then also the giant PSU. Essentially they just retrofit the M1 Max into a chassis that was meant for the TDP of the M1 Ultra class of Apple Silicon, but only offer the M1 Max option to push down the entry price of the base, and to broaden the buyer spectrum to warrant the existence of the line up which was an oddly niche space for Apple to walk into in the first place.

When the ASi MBPs first came out, my initial thoughts were that the Mac mini line-up could cover the M1, M1 Pro, and M1 Max...

All the rumors at the time were that the M2 Mac mini would be in a smaller chassis, with a rainbow of colors; and the horrid renderings that were going around had virtually zero thoughts towards any sort of airflow...

My thoughts were towards a Mac mini with the same 7.7" squared footprint, but taller, to allow for a more substatial cooling system that would handle the M1 Pro & M1 Max SoCs...

Then the Mac Studio was announced, and there was suddenly a gaping hole in the Mac headless desktop line-up...

The M2 Pro mini if it exists as rumour suggests, it will inherit the Intel mini form factor, that is much easier to be handled both on desk or in a network rack (it is less than 1U high). The Intel mini's heat envelop and the PSU rating should have the M2 Pro well covered as well. Then having 4 Thunderbolt ports also greatly reduces the I/O potential difference between the M1 mini vs the base Studio. Even the 10GbE is just a 100 dollar BTO option and it's literally the same Auntie NIC.

I hope a M2 Pro Mac mini also inherits the 2018 Intel Mac mini color, Space Gray...!

So together with form factor, power budget, having enough I/O potential, pricing tiers, the M2 Pro mini makes a lot of sense at least with the base to middle configs. It only starts to tread into Studio territory when you deck up storage and RAM upgrades against the base Studio.

The entire point I have been saying these last handful of posts...!

See my reply to Gudi just above though, there may be some hope for a lower entry cost for the M2 Pro Mac mini...?

 

[gusping]

Taking a lower BOM into account, Apple would probably start the M2 Pro Mac mini at the current price of the base 2018 Intel Mac mini with a $100 surcharge for the M2 Pro SoC, so $1200...?

That is an extra $300 available towards upgrades before bumping into the base M1 Max Mac Studio pricing...

I hope the M2 mini doesn't inherit the Intel Mac mini price. £200/$200 price increase from the M1 to M2 if that is to be the case? Wait... knowing Apple, that is probably spot on. Imagine paying $1,100/£1,100 for an 8GB/512GB M2 mini, lmao.

 

[Boil]

I hope the M2 mini doesn't inherit the Intel Mac mini price. £200/$200 price increase from the M1 to M2 if that is to be the case? Wait... knowing Apple, that is probably spot on. Imagine paying $1,100/£1,100 for an 8GB/512GB M2 mini, lmao.

M2 mini should only see a $100 bump because of the M2 SoC, so a starting price of $800...

The M2 Pro Mac mini is the unit that should inherit the 2018 Intel Mac mini pricing, with the $100 M2-family SoC price bump, so a starting price of $1200...

 

[Boil]

• M2 Pro Mac mini
• 12-core CPU (8P/4E)
• 20-core GPU
• 16-core Neural Engine
• 16GB LPDDR5 SDRAM (32GB & 48GB options)
• 512GB NVMe SSD (1TB & 2TB options)
• Four TB4/USB4 ports
• Two USB-A ports
• HDMI 2.1 port
• 3.5mm audio out jack
• Gigabit Ethernet port (10GbE option)
• $1199

 

[gusping]

• M2 Pro Mac mini
• 12-core CPU (8P/4E)
• 20-core GPU
• 16-core Neural Engine
• 16GB LPDDR5 SDRAM (32GB & 48GB options)
• 512GB NVMe SSD (1TB & 2TB options)
• Four TB4/USB4 ports
• Two USB-A ports
• HDMI 2.1 port
• 3.5mm audio out jack
• Gigabit Ethernet port (10GbE option)
• $1199

Yes please! I suspect it will start with a binned version (on both the CPU and GPU) for that price tbh. Can't wait for European pricing....

 

[sublunar]

That I am afraid is not very true for many potential mini buyers. I got a base Mac Studio, it is a great machine, but to be honest the M1 Max simply does not need that beefy of a cooling system and then also the giant PSU. Essentially they just retrofit the M1 Max into a chassis that was meant for the TDP of the M1 Ultra class of Apple Silicon, but only offer the M1 Max option to push down the entry price of the base, and to broaden the buyer spectrum to warrant the existence of the line up which was an oddly niche space for Apple to walk into in the first place.

The M2 Pro mini if it exists as rumour suggests, it will inherit the Intel mini form factor, that is much easier to be handled both on desk or in a network rack (it is less than 1U high). The Intel mini's heat envelop and the PSU rating should have the M2 Pro well covered as well. Then having 4 Thunderbolt ports also greatly reduces the I/O potential difference between the M1 mini vs the base Studio. Even the 10GbE is just a 100 dollar BTO option and it's literally the same Auntie NIC.

So together with form factor, power budget, having enough I/O potential, pricing tiers, the M2 Pro mini makes a lot of sense at least with the base to middle configs. It only starts to tread into Studio territory when you deck up storage and RAM upgrades against the base Studio.

M1 Max Mac Studio has an Aluminium heatsink where the M1 Ultra has a copper one (I think it's that way round) so Apple have addressed the issue in a way. Not sure how much they are saving in terms of the two types of heatsink, I believe there's a Linus Tech Tips video that shows that they are using different PSU vendors even though the ratings are the same for all models.

I've already said that financially there's just no space in the lineup for an M2 Pro mini - although the existing case can support the estimated TDP) and that I reckon that Apple will put an M2 (10 core GPU) in as a slot in replacement for the M1 mini. Adding M2 Pro would also probably need a redesign of the case for at least one extra Thunderbolt port - this is based off the M1 Pro laptops having 3 Thunderbolt ports.

At the moment, once you have added sufficient BTO RAM and storage to an M1 Mini you may as well explore the 32/512 base model Mac Studio if you are spending upwards of $1500 and maybe want 10Gig ethernet. Adding an M2 Pro mini into it just confuses matters - my suggestion would be to add an off the shelf SKU with 16Gb RAM and maybe 512Gb SSD alongside a 10 Core GPU M2 as the top SKU mini when the refresh comes round.

 

[Gudi]

a M2 Pro Mac mini will have a price bump for the M2-family SoC alone

The M2 is exactly as much as the M1. The MacBook Air with M2 only raised prices, because of a new form factor and new display. M2 Pro will cost as much as M1 Pro. For the Mac mini you only have to pay up for the difference of non-pro to pro, not for the new chip generation. For marketing reasons alone the price difference will be $200 or $300 exactly. The cost difference for Apple is much lower.

 

[Boil]

The M2 is exactly as much as the M1. The MacBook Air with M2 only raised prices, because of a new form factor and new display. M2 Pro will cost as much as M1 Pro. For the Mac mini you only have to pay up for the difference of non-pro to pro, not for the new chip generation. For marketing reasons alone the price difference will be $200 or $300 exactly. The cost difference for Apple is much lower.

Foiled again...! ;^p

You are correct, I just checked pricing of the M1 & M2 13" MBP laptops (which is still an Intel-era chassis, Touchbar and all), they remained the same...

Maybe there is hope for a full-die M2 Pro Mac mini with 32GB of RAM and a 1TB SSD, coming in around $1800...?

 

[Gudi]

You are correct, I just checked pricing of the M1 & M2 13" MBP laptops (which is still an Intel-era chassis, Touchbar and all), they remained the same...

The very first iMac (1998) and the latest iMac (24-inch, M1, 2021) are both exactly $1,299. The dollar has lost value in the meantime through inflation, but the nominal price is still the same. Consistency in pricing is how you get people used to the idea that a luxury product is just worth that much.

Steve Jobs on stage over and over stressed the fact that the new Macs are this much better than the old ones (because comparing them to the competition would be silly) and still cost the same. Don't look at Windows, don't look at the price, just look what our engineers came up with!

The crazy part is that as Apple became hyper successful with the iPhone, the competition started to copy not only Apple's design but also its pricing structure. First with Android phones without a charger in the box and now also Windows laptops with an i5 and a non-retina display for the price of a MacBook Air.

 

[gusping]

New winter watch bands? https://www.macrumors.com/2023/01/16/apple-product-announcement-tomorrow/

Edit: 9to5mac also posted something at the same time, hmmm: 9to5Mac has independently heard that Apple is holding press briefings this week related to the Mac. https://9to5mac.com/2023/01/16/new-mac-updates-coming-this-week-rumor/

 

[robertosh]

For me a mac mini with M2 Pro would make sense. So mini entry level with M2, mid-range with M2 Pro and then the Studio with M2 Max and M2 Ultra. For sure you can configure a mini to be more expensive than the studio base (you can do it almost today with the mini M1, fully loaded is ~2000 eur) but what is important is the base price, the increasing cost will be more or less linked to your requirements in memory/storage which will be the same in any mac you buy. So let's cross fingers.

My bet on pricing:
- M2 Pro (10/20)
- 8G
- 512G
- 1299EUR

 

[gusping]

For me a mac mini with M2 Pro would make sense. So mini entry level with M2, mid-range with M2 Pro and then the Studio with M2 Max and M2 Ultra. For sure you can configure a mini to be more expensive than the studio base (you can do it almost today with the mini M1, fully loaded is ~2000 eur) but what is important is the base price, the increasing cost will be more or less linked to your requirements in memory/storage which will be the same in any mac you buy. So let's cross fingers.

My bet on pricing:
- M2 Pro (10/20)
- 8G
- 512G
- 1299EUR

I would be happy with that pricing tbh. +200 for 16GB ram. Still quite a lot for a Mac with no screen, mouse or keyboard, but it is what it is. I'd buy that day one.

 

[reallynotnick]

My bet on pricing:
- M2 Pro (10/20)
- 8G
- 512G
- 1299EUR

There won't be an 8GB Pro due to it being a 256-bit memory bus, just like there isn't a 16GB Max or 32GB Ultra.

16GB will be the minimum on any Pro chip.

 

[sublunar]

For me a mac mini with M2 Pro would make sense. So mini entry level with M2, mid-range with M2 Pro and then the Studio with M2 Max and M2 Ultra. For sure you can configure a mini to be more expensive than the studio base (you can do it almost today with the mini M1, fully loaded is ~2000 eur) but what is important is the base price, the increasing cost will be more or less linked to your requirements in memory/storage which will be the same in any mac you buy. So let's cross fingers.

My bet on pricing:
- M2 Pro (10/20)
- 8G
- 512G
- 1299EUR

Already been said but m2 pro will have minimum 16gb ram, it’s a constraint of the system on chip I think

 

[now i see it]

AplInc is keenly aware of the big gap between the Mini and the Studio — and they want it that way. The Mini has and will have a number of pain points to entice customers to splurge for a Studio. I can’t see them changing that marketing plan.

Be prepared for a let-down when the next Mini is unveiled.

 

[gusping]

AplInc is keenly aware of the big gap between the Mini and the Studio — and they want it that way. The Mini has and will have a number of pain points to entice customers to splurge for a Studio. I can’t see them changing that marketing plan.

Be prepared for a let-down when the next Mini is unveiled.

I would drop good money on a new Studio if it didn't have horrible coil whine/noisy fans. Maybe Apple will learn a lesson for the second version, if there is one. Although a revised version will be 10-20% more money I suspect.

 

[sublunar]

I would drop good money on a new Studio if it didn't have horrible coil whine/noisy fans. Maybe Apple will learn a lesson for the second version, if there is one. Although a revised version will be 10-20% more money I suspect.

Even if the dollar price doesn’t go up the euro and pound price certainly will

 

[gusping]

Even if the dollar price doesn’t go up the euro and pound price certainly will

Yep. GBP down c.7-8% since March-22 so they would likely up prices 10-15% I suspect (if it was to launch tomorrow) and then people will continue to wonder why desktop Macs sell like s**t. Maybe Apple won't sell desktop Macs in a few years as the prices increase and the few of us that buy them stop bothering.... lol.

 

[Gudi]

Maybe Apple won't sell desktop Macs in a few years as the prices increase and the few of us that buy them stop bothering.... lol.

Didn't you get the memo? Desktop Macs are on the rise, 26% to 74%. And that even without a 27" iMac.

 

[gusping]

Didn't you get the memo? Desktop Macs are on the rise, 26% to 74%. And that even without a 27" iMac.

11% of sales are Mac Pro? Yea… no. Not buying into that. I’m such a pessimist when it comes to desktop Macs now, both hardware and software.