MP 7,1 The new Mac Pro is not that quiet?

[Blair Paulsen]

Hopefully Apple will just replace Parzival's MP with a new one and he's only out the time spent.

It's theoretically possible that all the posters who consider it silent, or near silent, have crappy hearing - but, the odds of that...

 

[AdamSeen]

really ? There are a number of posts here on MR not to trust iPhone apps with regards to sound pressure recording accuracy . I used to have a sound pressure app on my phone , but grew to distrust it .

What I need is a $500 - $1000 hand held sound level meter that measures the ambient down to 10 or 20 dB and I don't have the budget for it at the moment . It's not like I have a recording studio here . I build and service workstations .

dB scale is logarithmic, even if it calibrates 10% off that it will be less than a decibel out. At the extreme ranges there will be issues of course. I’ve found decibel X to be pretty good when tested in different environments, but really I think it’s down to the phones microphone, if you have a newer phone it is likely more accurate.

 

[daveedjackson]

I have a 16c 96gb ram base gou, did a pretty intensive after effects render over an hour and half. Didn’t once hear the fan increase. Sure if I stick my head next to it I can hear a slight running noise, but sitting at my desk I can barely hear anything. It’s about equal to if not quieter to the 6,1 but doing this render would have made the 6,1 hairdryer like.

 

[defjam]

I have a 16c 96gb ram base gou, did a pretty intensive after effects render over an hour and half. Didn’t once hear the fan increase. Sure if I stick my head next to it I can hear a slight running noise, but sitting at my desk I can barely hear anything. It’s about equal to if not quieter to the 6,1 but doing this render would have made the 6,1 hairdryer like.

Is this even possible? I've never heard my 6,1 come anything close to "hairdryer like" but perhaps I haven't put it through its paces.

 

[Onelifenofear]

Is this even possible? I've never heard my 6,1 come anything close to "hairdryer like" but perhaps I haven't put it through its paces.

Well the 6,1 can certainly ramp up... I'm doing hefty 3d stuff on the 7,1 and barely any sound... One thing I would not is to have it on your left - The blower is on the back left and that might be in someone's pitch level.

I don't joke when I say some people that can afford this and want the silence are also likely to be a bit older who's hearing is not that of a 20 year old anyway.

I am one of them.... 25 years of Gigs and being 46

 

[AdamSeen]

I have a 16c 96gb ram base gou, did a pretty intensive after effects render over an hour and half. Didn’t once hear the fan increase. Sure if I stick my head next to it I can hear a slight running noise, but sitting at my desk I can barely hear anything. It’s about equal to if not quieter to the 6,1 but doing this render would have made the 6,1 hairdryer like.

So for you it’s almost inaudible. Would you mind seeing what ambient dB levels (decibel x app) your room is at?

 

[AdamSeen]

Apple got back in touch with me today, I had a message relayed from the engineers that the best way to check it would be to take it into an Apple store (it's already at an Apple Store). That would have been an unfruitful endeavour because even in the back of the store it would be much louder than my office. Basically, there's nothing more they will do.

The choice for me is looking more clear. I'll hang around this forum for a few more weeks to see if anyone can hear the fan noise in a 25dB room. If it's a one off problem, I might buy another Mac Pro. Otherwise, I'll go the less favourable route of a Linux/Hackintosh build.

 

[sirio76]

Don't know if your 7.1 have specific problem but be carefull, all of my PC are far louder than Mac(I mean... really a lot louder!), especially the Threadripper build(the more core you need to cool the more heat/noise they'll produce).
I only use Noctua cooler/fans(even for the PSU) that are among the quieter option out there, the GPU are passively cooled and the SSD storage has no moving part. Especially if you go for a powerful rig, you'll have hard time getting a quiet system
The truth is that if your room have a 25dB level(40dB is considered a quiet library for reference), anything with a moving part will be noticeable. Of course noticeable does't mean loud.

 

[OkiRun]

Decibel X

Ambient level in office Avg 43.1 (Middle of room)
[Mac Pro 7.1 is off]

Ambient Level in office Avg 43.0 (Middle of room)
[Mac Pro 7.1 is on]

Reading from back of 7.1 Avg 44.6
[Mac Pro 7.1 turned on but not logged in]

 

[Snow Tiger]

Apple got back in touch with me today, I had a message relayed from the engineers that the best way to check it would be to take it into an Apple store (it's already at an Apple Store). That would have been an unfruitful endeavour because even in the back of the store it would be much louder than my office. Basically, there's nothing more they will do.

The choice for me is looking more clear. I'll hang around this forum for a few more weeks to see if anyone can hear the fan noise in a 25dB room. If it's a one off problem, I might buy another Mac Pro. Otherwise, I'll go the less favourable route of a Linux/Hackintosh build.

Maybe what you need is a liquid cooled workstation ?

There are water cooling blocks made for LGA3647 socket machines , but are not compatible with Apple's quasi-proprietary socket because of the lack of a bolster plate to mount it on .

EK-Annihilator Pro - Narrow ILM

 

[sirio76]

Liquid cooled system still requires fans, and most of the time are noisier than air cooler like Noctua.
Just for reference here is comparison of a few coolers, all of them well above a 25dB room BTW:

Noctua NH-D15S CPU cooler review (Page 9)

We review the Noctua NH-D15S CPU cooler, the Mack Daddy of Noctua coolers now is available in an S model, the silent version. The D15S is basically your D15 yet with one fan. As we learned it help...

www.guru3d.com

 

[Snow Tiger]

Liquid cooled system still requires fans, and most of the time are noisier than air cooler like Noctua.
Just for reference here is comparison of a few coolers, all of them well above a 25dB room BTW:

Noctua NH-D15S CPU cooler review (Page 9)

We review the Noctua NH-D15S CPU cooler, the Mack Daddy of Noctua coolers now is available in an S model, the silent version. The D15S is basically your D15 yet with one fan. As we learned it help...

www.guru3d.com

I'm not too familiar with liquid cooling systems these days . The last Systems I worked on professionally were the liquid cooled PMG5 Late 2005 PPC machines . They were a big headache at first and leaked a radiator fluid / deionized water mixture causing micro perforation in PCBs . Apple eventually perfected the coolers towards the end , but by that time they switch to much cooler Intel Macs .

But I reached out to EKWB - the manufacturer of the block I referenced above - to see if there is a fanless cooling system for a LGA 3647 System .

Interestingly , the big brother of the Cascade Lake LGA 3647 Xeon installed in our MP7,1 - the Cascade Lake AP BGA-5903 Xeon - requires liquid cooling . Those solutions seem fanless . By the way , these chips are so large a finger installation of them is not permitted . They are all soldered onto the logic boards . So now you know why everyone should be concerned about finger installing our "ordinary" Cascade Lake Xeons into our MP7,1s . The silicon is getting to be unmanageable without some other assist being provided .

 

[sirio76]

Those are server parts and the reason why you don’t see fans is because like on most other server blades the fans are installed on the front of the system and in a server room with AC, since the fans of the blades are relatively small they need to spin a lot faster than bigger fans and therefore those will be loud as hell

 

[AdamSeen]

Don't know if your 7.1 have specific problem but be carefull, all of my PC are far louder than Mac(I mean... really a lot louder!), especially the Threadripper build(of course the more core you need to cool the more heat/noise they'll produce).
I only use Noctua cooler/fans(even for the PSU) that are among the quiter option out there, the GPU are passively cooled and the SSD storage has no moving part. Especially if you go for a powerful rig, you'll have hard time getting a quite system
The truth is that if your room have a 25dB level(40dB is considered a quiet library for reference), anything with a moving part will be noticeable. Of course noticeable does't mean loud.

My PC and iMac are already quieter than the Mac Pro. At load the Mac Pro is the quietest, of course. A threadripper computer is not inherently loud - it will depend on the heatsink, fan and fan curve. We can see this with the Mac Pro already - Take a big enough fan and it's super quiet.

The Mac Pro's fans are mostly super quiet, however, the side blower fan, which is cooling the SSD, RAM and PSU, suffers the problem of being annoying (to me) in quiet rooms or studios. The fan isn't loud, but it feels like an oppressive pressure. This could be resolved by a firmware update the lowers the blower speeds, but I doubt Apple will do that. They tend to stick to a consistent level rather than having the computer spin up and down when load changes.

I accept my room is very quiet and that's why I think that there's probably nothing wrong with the blower, it's just not meant for rooms like that. Which is a little surprising to me, I would have thought it would be super quiet for studios.

Decibel X

Ambient level in office Avg 43.1 (Middle of room)
[Mac Pro 7.1 is off]

Ambient Level in office Avg 43.0 (Middle of room)
[Mac Pro 7.1 is on]

Reading from back of 7.1 Avg 44.6
[Mac Pro 7.1 turned on but not logged in]

Thank you for those readings, I can see the Mac Pro will be fine for you. You can only hear the blower sub 30 dB.

Maybe what you need is a liquid cooled workstation ?

There are water cooling blocks made for LGA3647 socket machines , but are not compatible with Apple's quasi-proprietary socket because of the lack of a bolster plate to mount it on .

EK-Annihilator Pro - Narrow ILM

Yes, liquid cooled can be louder and creates all sort of unusual noises, such as a motor running inside the machine.

 

[ilikewhey]

It’s strange because it’s definitely quieter than my 5,1 Mac Pro. I’m not sure how quiet the r5 cases are?

5.1 is no standard to be used for measuring quietness. ?

my 5.1 sounds like a small idle vaccum cleaner compare to my custom pc with quiet noctual fans

 

[Snow Tiger]

Yes, liquid cooled can be louder and creates all sort of unusual noises, such as a motor running inside the machine.

OK , how about you make your own soundproof cabinet ? With large , low RPM case fans ?

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

5.1 is no standard to be used for measuring quietness. ?

my 5.1 sounds like a small idle vaccum cleaner compare to my custom pc with quiet noctual fans

Um, yea, considering it's machine used far in wide in sound studios and professional environments, around these parts, it is.

Did/do you have a 6,1 Mac Pro? Is that also noisy to your ear in that environment.

 

[ilikewhey]

Um, yea, considering it's machine used far in wide in sound studios and professional environments, around these parts, it is.

Did/do you have a 6,1 Mac Pro? Is that also noisy to your ear in that environment.

depending on the studio setup, the studios i used to go for recording have isolated room for recording so how noisy a computer is is not a factor.

i can't speak for the 6.1, but the 5.1 is loud, at least compared to my gaming pc which uses a 140mm noctua fans

 

[flygbuss]

Um, yea, considering it's machine used far in wide in sound studios and professional environments, around these parts, it is.

Did/do you have a 6,1 Mac Pro? Is that also noisy to your ear in that environment.

The 6,1 is acceptable in a mixing or editing room if you keep it clean and maintenance it regularly. Best thing though is to put the mac inside a machine room with A/C. Bigger studios usually have those for all the machinery.

Otherwise I second the suggestion with the soundproof cabinet, but those things tend to get pretty warm inside.

If you have to do the recordings in the very same room you're sitting in with the computer, I suggest to test various mic positions / directions. Also, acoustic elements you put in between the actor / artist and the noise might help to shield your recordings.

Just look for drum shield or acoustic wall or if you have the space a small modular vocal booth.

Flexi Wall - Vicoustic

A portable, modular acoustic treatment system

vicoustic.com

 

[Snow Tiger]

How lon

My PC and iMac are already quieter than the Mac Pro. At load the Mac Pro is the quietest, of course. A threadripper computer is not inherently loud - it will depend on the heatsink, fan and fan curve. We can see this with the Mac Pro already - Take a big enough fan and it's super quiet.

The Mac Pro's fans are mostly super quiet, however, the side blower fan, which is cooling the SSD, RAM and PSU, suffers the problem of being annoying (to me) in quiet rooms or studios. The fan isn't loud, but it feels like an oppressive pressure. This could be resolved by a firmware update the lowers the blower speeds, but I doubt Apple will do that. They tend to stick to a consistent level rather than having the computer spin up and down when load changes.

I accept my room is very quiet and that's why I think that there's probably nothing wrong with the blower, it's just not meant for rooms like that. Which is a little surprising to me, I would have thought it would be super quiet for studios.



Thank you for those readings, I can see the Mac Pro will be fine for you. You can only hear the blower sub 30 dB.



Yes, liquid cooled can be louder and creates all sort of unusual noises, such as a motor running inside the machine.

How long are your recording sessions ?

If you don't want to cool with water and the sound proof cabinet is not a go and you must have your Mac in the same room , then I can think of only one solution left .

We cool the puppy with Liquid Nitrogen . Just don't lick your Mac or you'll get stuck until spring or whenever the landlady comes knocking ...

That white stuff means Winter Is Coming ⛄ .

 

[AidenShaw]

OK , how about you make your own soundproof cabinet ? With large , low RPM case fans ?


View attachment 892875

Tried that with a system with four Turing cards. It would power down every night when the ambient air inlet temp hit 50°. The rack manufacturer claimed that it could handle 50% more power than the system used.

Too much air spinning around inside the case, too little being brought in and expelled.

 

[Snow Tiger]

Tried that with a system with four Turing cards. It would power down every night when the ambient air inlet temp hit 50°. The rack manufacturer claimed that it could handle 50% more power than the system used.

Too much air spinning around inside the case, too little being brought in and expelled.

Hmmm ... Well , this is not good . I just got done with a long burn in with my W-3275M MP7,1 with all her threads and cores at load . Her CPU Tcase was between 60 -72 C with all her fans at 1000 RPM . If she were in your cabinet , all that hot air won't magically disappear . She'll just throttle down ...

Wait , do you mean your ambient air in was at 122 F ??? You need some AC in your facility .

 

[AdamSeen]

I found that Apple offer some sound information tucked away in their support sites tech spec pages. I've collated this info here:

Computer sound readings taken at idle	Sound Power level (bels)	Sound Pressure level Operator Position (dB) [What is heard]
Mac Pro (2019)	2.7	11
Mac Pro (2013)	2.0	14
iMac Pro	2.1	13
iMac 2015/2017 (21 inch)	1.95	11.5
iMac 2019	2.4	16
Mac Mini 2018	1.3	5

Before we get into the readings, we need to understand a little more about what's being shown.

Sound power level - is the energy that is converted into sound.
Sound pressure level - is what is felt and heard. This is the most important value for actual perception.

It looks like the Mac Pro (2019) is almost the quietest Mac! However, there's one additional important point. The Sound Pressure reading is taken at "Operator Position".

It isn't clearly defined in the spec as to what it may be. But suggests it is a reading taken from a place where the user would usually use the computer from in relation to where the computer is in your room (e.g. on your desk, under your desk)

Comparing all the values on the chart below we can see the Mac Pro (2019) sound power level doesn't correlate well with every other computer, in which the values are quite closely linked:

This would suggest the Mac Pro (2019) is in the different operator position to the rest of the other computers. Every other computer would likely be on the desk. The Mac Pro (2019) would be under the desk.

If we assume the operator position of the Mac Pro is sat on the desk in the same position as an iMac and use the same correlation, we can see that the Mac Pro would be the loudest computer in our lineup at approx 18dB.

So is the Mac Pro quiet? It's not that quiet. But under the desk it should be at least as quiet as a 2015/17 iMac.

Does it mean my blower on my returned Mac Pro was too loud as it was louder than my 2015 iMac? The information above may suggest so. But still not sure.

Links to some of the data:

Mac Pro (2019) - Technical Specifications

iMac Pro (2017) - Technical Specifications - Apple Support

support.apple.com

Mac mini (2018) - Technical Specifications

 

[AidenShaw]

Hmmm ... Well , this is not good . I just got done with a long burn in with my W-3275M MP7,1 with all her threads and cores at load . Her CPU Tcase was between 60 -72 C with all her fans at 1000 RPM . If she were in your cabinet , all that hot air won't magically disappear . She'll just throttle down ...

Wait , do you mean your ambient air in was at 122 F ??? You need some AC in your facility .

Yes, the ambient air was 50° - the root cause was that the office air conditioning was shut off at 17:00 each day. (Not that uncommon for green buildings, especially where overnight temperatures are reasonable.)

During the day, the cabinet fans kept temperatures in the green zone. Overnight, with no office A/C - they hit the emergency poweroff threshold.

The fix was to move the server to an equipment closet that had 24/7 A/C. (And in the closet, no need for the cabinet.)

 

[sirio76]

So, all your reasoning is based on your supposition that the 7.1 is simply located in a different position?
Get some fact first