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The new Mac Pro - What are your biggest fears?
- Thread starter iBrooker
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I'm not really fearing the demise of the Mac (Pro, etc...). It's just one (relatively minor) facet of Apple's self-delusional decline.
But:
The Mac Pro 7,1 is already too late - it should have been here by NOW. And we all know the Trash Can was a failure.
We won't even see the 7,1 until late 2018 at the earliest, and (given the slow production ramp of the 6,1) it will be almost 2 years before it's widely available. 2019 is a long time from now. Nothing stands still so whatever they come up with will have to compete with everything else that will be available at that time.
My prediction is that they will encounter much larger setbacks than the Mac Pro failure which will cause their demise, which I've already accepted.
So I guess I'm saying I doubt Apple will even be around to deliver the next Mac pro. And I don't care. I was heavily invested in their App ecosystem but have mostly transitioned away. I truly wish things would have turned out differently, but they screwed themselves (and a lot of us along the way).
[doublepost=1491803954][/doublepost]btw.. here's the link to my post that explains their demise:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/waiting-for-mac-pro-7-1.1975126/page-180#post-24428554
But:
The Mac Pro 7,1 is already too late - it should have been here by NOW. And we all know the Trash Can was a failure.
We won't even see the 7,1 until late 2018 at the earliest, and (given the slow production ramp of the 6,1) it will be almost 2 years before it's widely available. 2019 is a long time from now. Nothing stands still so whatever they come up with will have to compete with everything else that will be available at that time.
My prediction is that they will encounter much larger setbacks than the Mac Pro failure which will cause their demise, which I've already accepted.
So I guess I'm saying I doubt Apple will even be around to deliver the next Mac pro. And I don't care. I was heavily invested in their App ecosystem but have mostly transitioned away. I truly wish things would have turned out differently, but they screwed themselves (and a lot of us along the way).
[doublepost=1491803954][/doublepost]btw.. here's the link to my post that explains their demise:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/waiting-for-mac-pro-7-1.1975126/page-180#post-24428554
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I guess Black Magic Design, AJA and the slew of other manufacturers of PCI card peripherals are all a figment of our imagination.
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TB3 is useful for things other than external GPU cards like high speed RAID. And frankly TB3 is no match for PCI when it comes to GPU cards.
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I highly doubt that Apple will not make the 7,1 dual CPU or at least offer the option.
Dual CPU is a must for a serious workstation. Most people want two high frequency CPU's instead of one low frequency CPU with twice the core count. They already made that mistake with the 6,1. Dual CPU machines also have considerably more bandwidth. Again, I highly doubt that Apple is dumb enough to make the same mistake twice in a row. They are competing with the z840; serious gear.
The market isn't exactly flooded with 3rd party SSD for their current proprietary SSD connector.
I'm guessing this will be the one area where they drop the ball, but I hope I am wrong. If the machine has PCI slots and bays it's less of an issue.
If it has PCI slots nobody will care what Apple offers.
By resembling a 5,1 I mean it will have PCI slots and internal expansion bays. Not resembling an actual 5,1 although a lot of people would be thrilled by that.
You can buy all sorts of PCI cards from Black Magic, Aja etc. for the 5,1. If Apple actually made a machine with PCI slots you would see plenty more of them.
The pro market has already mostly departed. The question is will they offer something good enough to lure them back?
I've been using Mac's since the 80's and have owned them for nearly that long. Earlier this year I switched to a Win10 workstation, because I needed to get work done. So, far it's worked out very nicely, but if Apple offered a competitive product I would maybe be interested in returning to the fold.
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You mean in 2013? Because the 2006 Mac Pro kicked ass in every way. Better than any competing PC workstation for 1000$ less.
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TB3 is not restricted to eGPU. In fact, the Mac doesn't properly support eGPU.
That modular doesn't mean box with slots. I don't want then to come out with modules that have a proprietary interconnect.
I think there's a reason they said modular and not traditional.
I think there's a reason they said modular and not traditional.
Dear apple,
Give us the 5.1 cases with updated internals, until this new modular system comes out. Hell, sell us upgrade kits for our systems. There is bsolutely zero reason to wait for a new design. Zilch.
Give us the 5.1 cases with updated internals, until this new modular system comes out. Hell, sell us upgrade kits for our systems. There is bsolutely zero reason to wait for a new design. Zilch.
Yep, but they had big discounts from Intel on those early Xeons to make the switch not only to Intel, but in order to make the same sort of margin they were making on the G5 PowerMacs. Sadly we won't see that again so I'd expect to see the $1,000+ Apple premium still. They were more sneaky with the 2013 model by using FirePro branding on the graphics cards to seem like they had a lot more value, but we've all seen the performance and know the specs, they were just a pair of 7870s with no effort put in by Apple or AMD to optimise driver performance for OS X.
If they aren't going to do that again it'll be interesting to see if they try offset that premium with "Apple" features or if they are just brazen and price a $1,500 computer at $2,500-$3,000 again. I know a lot on here wouldn't care about the price, but it has taken away from the excitement of their launch. And as a few others mentioned it isn't just about the machine, it has to be supported. Apple's enterprise/business support is terrible.
I feel for anyone who "needs" OS X and high-end performance, it is a sad state of affairs when people are excited they may be able to buy a computer in 2 years without knowing anything about it.
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Biggest Fear Equals we will all have moved on to building our own home made PC with the ports and power and expandability that we need running Windows 10 and some will have installed MacOS 10.2.5 as dual boot for much less money than what Apple Plans to come out with.
And 10.3 or MacOS 11 will not run on Mac Pro's 5.1 and BELOW. essentially forcing all to buy a new Mac if they want the latest OS. essentially Killing a lot of Mac Market share in favor of Windows because very few will buy a new Mac Laptop or Desktop because they will cost too much and not PRO enough
And 10.3 or MacOS 11 will not run on Mac Pro's 5.1 and BELOW. essentially forcing all to buy a new Mac if they want the latest OS. essentially Killing a lot of Mac Market share in favor of Windows because very few will buy a new Mac Laptop or Desktop because they will cost too much and not PRO enough
If Apple is honestly trying to refute or backtrack to best serve its pro user base as much as possible, then there really isn't much room other than to make a Cheesegrater 2.0 in the context of flexibility. We can easily look into the Hackintosh scene to have a sense on how much is possible in terms of opponent choices, which often are just limited by EFI / drivers issues. It will be in everyone's best interest to offer the most expandable case as possible, with maximum PCI lanes and slots, but still have enough onboard connectors for I/Os especially now that Apple is invested into TB3.
However, the fact that they still need more than a year to roll out a design means they are likely not doing just that. I feel that despite their proclaimed commitment to "pros", they as a mobile-first manufacturer will still have to take into consideration for this Mac Pro to fit into the future ecosphere. So, if we were to take the "modular approach" literally, it may mean some form of externally connected modules that are also compatible with other MacBooks and iMacs (ala Thunderbolt Display as a MBP hub for example). Or if they are truly committed to AR / VR and smart home tech (AI) then the MP will need to take part into the development and/or content creation of those directions.
So what I fear the most is Apple instead of simply bring the Mac Pro back to what the Cheesegrater was (which is what I want), they try to overthink and be smart like the halfarsed TouchBar on the 2016MBP.
However, the fact that they still need more than a year to roll out a design means they are likely not doing just that. I feel that despite their proclaimed commitment to "pros", they as a mobile-first manufacturer will still have to take into consideration for this Mac Pro to fit into the future ecosphere. So, if we were to take the "modular approach" literally, it may mean some form of externally connected modules that are also compatible with other MacBooks and iMacs (ala Thunderbolt Display as a MBP hub for example). Or if they are truly committed to AR / VR and smart home tech (AI) then the MP will need to take part into the development and/or content creation of those directions.
So what I fear the most is Apple instead of simply bring the Mac Pro back to what the Cheesegrater was (which is what I want), they try to overthink and be smart like the halfarsed TouchBar on the 2016MBP.
Software. Yes, the mMP may be upgradable, however, there are lots of software limitation intentionally stop us to upgrade the mMP.
Apple already shows us how they treat the TB3. Yes, it's there, however, only the device that on the whitelist can work without any hack.
Same as for the RX480. The driver is there, but won't work without any kext edit.
The PCIe slots is there, but no driver for NVMe SSD, HDMI Audio, most new GPU…(natively)
Apple already shows us how they treat the TB3. Yes, it's there, however, only the device that on the whitelist can work without any hack.
Same as for the RX480. The driver is there, but won't work without any kext edit.
The PCIe slots is there, but no driver for NVMe SSD, HDMI Audio, most new GPU…(natively)
I fear that they continue to stick with one GPU vendor; probably AMD. Different pro segments have different needs, e.g. CUDA. Please give us back a choice of GPU vendors.
Being able to use non-EFI cards off the shelf would be a nice bonus. Maybe take the new Mac Pro opportunity to move to PC-compatible UEFI.
Being able to use non-EFI cards off the shelf would be a nice bonus. Maybe take the new Mac Pro opportunity to move to PC-compatible UEFI.
I fear being called names on this forum, because of remotely liking the new machine.
I have to agree, even now there are a ton of Mac drivers for PCIe cards out there (which is partially for TB -> PCIe boxes but also for the cheesegrater/hackintosh community). NVidia is leaving the light on for the mac and even making pascal drivers.
There's no doubt if Apple builds a computer with PCIe slots, there will probably be vendors who make stuff to put in there.
Out of the 4 PCI slots I'm using, I could give two of them back on a modern machine: One card is for USB3, another is full of Msata drives.
If they'd give us a machine with fast storage and usb3 (at the very least), that would allow me to run a dedicated SDI/HDMI capture card, a dedicated SDI/HDMI output card, a GPU, and hell, that'd even give me a free slot.
If they'd give us a machine with fast storage and usb3 (at the very least), that would allow me to run a dedicated SDI/HDMI capture card, a dedicated SDI/HDMI output card, a GPU, and hell, that'd even give me a free slot.
Likewise my biggest fear is not living long enough to criticize anyone who likes it.
I never understand this. For people that use workstations for their jobs, the price of one is pretty insignificant when you take into account how long it will last you and how much you will make off of it over the course of the next 3-5 years. If you're used to spending 3-6k on a workstation, will it really break the bank if this new one costs another 2-3k more? That's like a job or two for most of us.
There are plenty of cards that work in those slots. See the What's Occupying your PCI-e slots? thread.
despite GPU/Storage/USB PCIe, all what I see are legacy Capture cards, so, get current with USB-C (3.1) or Thunderbolt 2/3
I dont see why the newest mac has to support 4yr Legacy hardware in a soon to be obsolete interface (PCIe soon to be followed by PCIe4, but mostly being replaced by USB3.1/Thunderbolt devices)
Apple seems to think GPU alone is enough of a reason, or at least the direction that the mMP will cater to. They didn't mention if PCI slots are involved, but it would be silly to not just use the same interface if this is where all the 3rd party momentum is.
The ability of capturing device will only increase as displays are getting better and with streaming bandwidth is catching up, and there is also a trend in audio to go higher bit-depth and sampling frequency for HiFi purposes, all of which may suffer with external interfaces, especially latency is an issue.
But I do think that a lot of peripherals that used to favor PCI will now move on to TB3 with its capabilities.
Hey if pci4 is ready bring it. Bottom line it needs slots to support current and future graphics cars. Not having slots and relying on thunderbolt is what caused the spectacular failure of the nMP.
I don't think anyone is asking for that. I'm sure we'd all agree that current I/O should just be built in. But the point of the PCIe slot is to support the next 4 years of technology, not the last 4.
The cMP today has SATA3, NVME, new GPUs, USB 3.0, USB 3.1, and whatever else only because of the PCIe slots. Some day it may even support USB 4.0 or whatever is coming next.
So even if the 7,1 includes up-to-date technology, having PCIe slots will enable it to have whatever comes along later.
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Yes it will. Since you think it's so insignificant, would you be willing to lend me the $2-3K so I can buy it?
I love how some people feel free to tell others what they can and can't afford.