Yeah...but that's only if you considered the nMP an actual workstation. IMO it's not.
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The new Mac Pro - What are your biggest fears?
- Thread starter iBrooker
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Yeah...but that's only if you considered the nMP an actual workstation. IMO it's not.
Biggest fears
1) Apple will invent some non industry standard proprietary nonsense
2) cost
3) soldered parts/ lack of UPGRADABILITY
I have no faith at this point that they'll get it right. If it doesn't have upgradable CPU's, GPU's, memory, and hard drives, it will be another failure.
1) Apple will invent some non industry standard proprietary nonsense
2) cost
3) soldered parts/ lack of UPGRADABILITY
I have no faith at this point that they'll get it right. If it doesn't have upgradable CPU's, GPU's, memory, and hard drives, it will be another failure.
Six grand is six grand unless an employer is picking up the tab. I'll bet there are more freelance/micro studio "pros" slaving behind MacPros trying to make ends meet than dudes working on a salary given new boxes every five years by their employer. I'd venture to guess (wild guess) that 6 grand (or 5 grand) is out of the ballpark for more than 50% of the guys than NEED a MacPro.
When it gets into that stratospheric pricing, Windows 10 starts looking might fine.
The Only reason Wy we dont have a new Mac Pro with SOTA GPU is the Thermal Core, not the MP's propietary GPU connector.
People Updating MP with Commodity HW are doing that on Own Risk, I want regular updates w/o risk, the ISA PCIe slot its obsolete and problematic (I've seen a dozen Motherboard or GPUs burned on a PCIe short due miss alignment).
Further Apple should Opensource the mMP GPU connector and foresee lines for PCIe4 so the H/W industry (non Apple PC and GPU makers) will get rid off the ISA PCIe obsolescence.
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Apple can use a custom Slot and Commission GPU for this slot ASAP the GPU is released, its trivial, non trivial is to assure Compatibility, controlling the GPUs available to Update Apple avoid us Compatibility Issues and potential hardware failure on DIY upgrades with Hardware not Specific neither designed for MP.
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Every time a fool-proof connector is designed, somebody builds a better fool.
Would you blame the power cord if some fool plugged the system into a 480 volt circuit, and there was a flash and a bunch of Apple-flavored smoke?
If PCIe slots are obsolete, why is there so much anticipation for PCIe 4.0?
Probably the majority of systems with PCIe slots are never opened by the end user, and go to the eWaste bin with their OEM configuration. However, many of those same systems were factory configured with build-to-order or OEM options filling those PCIe slots. Even if the end-user never opens the case, PCIe can be very useful.
Yes, because having proprietary graphics cards for the cMP has been so successful and loved by the users.
Not.
Yes, count on the cost going up - by a lot!
I expect the mMP to be priced, equipped, and aimed at the Pro cinema, VR dev, and scientific markets.
AKA, I suspect mMP to start at around $5K and offered well equipped closer to $10K, if not closer to $12K.
AND the 8K Pro display - I can't imagine the
Pro Monitor costing less then $2K, if not closer to $3K.The good news, the above noted Pro markets will have at least two years to plan for capital re-investment.
AND the 2017 iMac Pro will be plenty for most: Kaby Lake Xeon, ECC DDR4, Vega, superfast pci-e SSD
Unless racing for the singularity (scientific), processing 8K RED RAW video (cinema), or building VR worlds (dev), then the iMac Pro should fit the computing needs for most other "Pros".
pretty sure it will be competitively priced.. when you compare it to a similarly spec'd PC, any difference in pricing will likely be what's considered reasonable (be it PC more expensive.. or less).
nmp was like that too.. for a little bit at least ; )
they're not going to start it at $5000.. that's too much and creates way too much of a price gap between an imac or mbp..
they want to have pricing available for $1000 through $10000+ (for example)..
and within that, they certainly don't want to leave out the $3000-$4900 spenders and expect them to become the $5000+ spenders... because they won't
----
but then again, i suppose something may happen with iMac which fills the pricing void..
however, i expect there to be some overlap with imac pricing / performance..
higher end iMacs will cost more than entry newnewMP
And the better the "iMac Pro" config is, the larger the jump to the mMP.
For example, many people make the claim that the MP6,1 in 2013 was a good value. If you compared it to other configurations with Xeons and dual FirePro/Quadro graphics - the price seemed good.
However:
- The other configs had actual FirePro/Quadro graphics - not consumer Radeons with a fancy, proprietary name
- The other configs didn't force dual GPUs on you - you could get single lower end GPUs if you wanted
- The other configs didn't force Xeons and ECC memory on you, Core i7 and non-ECC RAM was available
If, however, you didn't need exactly what an MP6,1 config offered, you could pay much less for a system that more closely met your needs.
I expect the mMP to be similar - it will be very expensive, but a good value when compared to other workstations optioned to the same level. If you don't need "optioned to the same level", it will just be very expensive.
...I suspect mMP to start at around $5K and offered well equipped closer to $10K, if not closer to $12K.
AND the 8K Pro display - I can't imagine the
Believe it or not, $12K is competitively priced for a well equipped workstation.
Bare in mind, just a single double-digit core CPU w/ one workstation GPU easily hits $5k+ USD.
Its simple enough to preview an order for a $15~20K Windows Workstation:
http://store.hp.com/us/en/Configure...-1&storeId=10151&catEntryId=839169&quantity=1
FWIW, a maxed 2015 27" iMac is $3,999 USD, while starting at $2,299 USD.
I suspect the iMac Pro will start around $2,999~$3,399 and w/ maxed specs will overlap the mMP base price.
AND, I would't be surprised if a 2nd iMac Pro is released prior to (or at the same time of) the mMP release.
ALSO, I'm inclined to believe the mMP will be a 2019 product.
As an Aside, I take
removing the 4-core & D300 options on nMP to mean they won't start Mac Pro w/ consumer grade CPU & GPU options this time around (and thank the gawds) - the nMP 256GB 12GB 4-core D300 was a cruel joke on the naive believing they purchased a Pro Workstation for $3K !!!
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i don't know if i'd consider that a maxed imac.. maybe with the 512 SSD instead of 1TB..
maxing, imo, is maxing out the performance with an imac being about $3200-3500.. having more storage inside isn't equating to a better performing system..
for example, i have more performance requirements than ,say , a photo editor.. however, the photo editor will likely require more storage so they'll spend the $4k...
but if i spent the $4k, nothing changes for me.. no performance enhancements happen.
(off on a tangent.. i know
..nothing to do with any sort of point i'm trying to make)I suspect the iMac Pro will start around $2,999~$3,399 and w/ maxed specs will overlap the mMP base price.
AND, I would't be surprised if a 2nd iMac Pro is released prior to (or at the same time of) the mMP release.
ALSO, I'm inclined to believe the mMP will be a 2019 product.
As an Aside, I take
what do you expect to be inside (or outside) the mMP to explain $5000 ?
they're not going to put 1 CPU & 1 GPU & 512ssd & 32GB RAM and expect to sell it for five thousand dollars.. while apple's prices are generally considered high, they are at least somewhat justifiable.. if it's going to be $5000 entry, you're not going to get $2500 worth of computer and a mysterious $2500 question mark.. you'll likely be getting about $5000 worth of computer..
so what do you see the entry config being to warrant such a high cost?
I agree. There's no way anyone's going to trust apple to make a new proprietary card after being kicked in the balls for 1,100 straight days... except for about 4-5 members of this forum.
My worry is on the GPU displayport -> thunderbolt header. Maybe goMac or deconstruct60 can speak to it but if Apple does a proprietary internal connector that doesn't work with 3rd party cards, I bet it'll just eliminate display capabilities from the TB port.
Even in same model-family SSDs, the largest capacity option typically has the fastest performance (not always).
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I'd quibble about the 6,1 price point. The main "value proposition" were the GPUs. Apple sold the GPU as if it were a real fire pro, then people compared the W9000 FirePro to the D700, then boasted about the price difference (D700 was $1000 upgrade from D300, IIRC). The real story is that they were underclocked and heavily binned radeon 280's that did happen to do the compute work of a firepro in windows pro rendering applications which precisely zero nMP buyers actually used...
What's a radeon 280? Basically a binned 7970 - a card released in 2011.
Because what you actually got for that absurdly priced W9000 was on-site service by AMD (5 years? I can't remember) and the ability to swap out the card and get back to work within a day (not mail it back to Apple and wait a few weeks). A real pro card for those types of workloads. It's not a real comparison.
It's a total marketing gimmick which did keep the reality distortion field in place longer than expected. There are probably people to this day who think the D700 is some amazing breakthrough--the only amazing thing being the binning that lowered the TPD (which was really impressive), not the compute power of a 2011 gaming card.
Anyways, you drop the shenanigans about the video card and the value drops away. Not to mention theNVMe [PCIe storage] which, while nice, really stung on cost/GB the time (still kinda does).
Not to rehash old arguments but this really did bug me. I just wonder in this day and age what tricks Apple has up their sleeve to trick people into paying more while getting less.
What's a radeon 280? Basically a binned 7970 - a card released in 2011.
Because what you actually got for that absurdly priced W9000 was on-site service by AMD (5 years? I can't remember) and the ability to swap out the card and get back to work within a day (not mail it back to Apple and wait a few weeks). A real pro card for those types of workloads. It's not a real comparison.
It's a total marketing gimmick which did keep the reality distortion field in place longer than expected. There are probably people to this day who think the D700 is some amazing breakthrough--the only amazing thing being the binning that lowered the TPD (which was really impressive), not the compute power of a 2011 gaming card.
Anyways, you drop the shenanigans about the video card and the value drops away. Not to mention the
Not to rehash old arguments but this really did bug me. I just wonder in this day and age what tricks Apple has up their sleeve to trick people into paying more while getting less.
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If the Frankenstein's Monster modularity is in the cards, then the "entry config" would be the CPU/RAM module. It's unlikely to be $5K.
When you look at a "useful config" however, you need the base CPU/RAM module, plus at least one storage module, a GPU module if you need more than base iGPU,....
Add two or three extra Apple-branded proprietary modules, and $5K for a "useful config" seems to be what to expect.
And not that far away from the MP6,1 when you include the T-Bolt expansion needed for most real work.
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MacOS does not support NVMe, no Apple ships with NVMe.
The MP6,1 has AHCI disks.
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1) too high barrier of entry. Base config should be accessible to a wider market. Not all pros swim in cash. Is it a 1% market because it's expensive, or is it expensive because it's a 1% market??
2) some hairbrained onboard customisation to differentiate itself from the competition. Like what? Oh I dunno, like an A series chip to speed up emoji processing
2) some hairbrained onboard customisation to differentiate itself from the competition. Like what? Oh I dunno, like an A series chip to speed up emoji processing
FWIW I still have to justify the purchase to more than just my boss when it comes time to buy new hardware and the more the hardware costs the more people I need to justify it with. Just because I spend my bosses money doesn't mean it's an unlimited credit card.
What Do you mean? 10.8 (2012) to 10.11 (ended 2016) not dropping one supported machine?
Making the hurdles circumventing machine support checking so high, that you just have to add a number to an plist and a value to nvram and you're done?
My 2008 Mac pro just runs fine with Sierra, even with a RX480. Where's the planned obsolescence? I don't see it.
Well, 2x10-12 core CPUs, plus a decent GPU, plus buy your own RAM/HDDs/SSDs and you're in the 5-7K range. The 15-20K range isn't just well equipped, its more or less maxed out.
A $2999 4-core base iMac Pro is not likely to fly. The E3s are basically i7s with ECC support. That's not worth ~$500 markup. The top CPU option on the iMac is $2549, that's probably the jumping off point for an iMac Pro, unless the iMac Pro offers only the next step up in processor, which will be a six core once coffee lake hits. So, if the iMac stays 4-core, i5-i7 and doesn't see a price drop, while the iMac is 6-core E3 only, then maybe the $3K entry tag will be justified. But that will squeeze what will likely be a 6-core base mMP. With the added cores around these days and in a year from now especially, a ~$3K price point for a headless 6-core is also not likely to fly.
As you say:
the nMP 256GB 12GB 4-core D300 was a cruel joke on the naive believing they purchased a Pro
And that was in 2013. This mMP will be out in 2018. 6-core, 512GB, and what ever lower-mid range GPU at $3K, will just repeat that same mistake. Apple has let a lot of its user base erode away, it has to be careful with the pricing/offerings. A year wait is a long time.