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The new Mac Pro - What are your biggest fears?
- Thread starter iBrooker
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The page mentions, standard components and Exceptionally future proof, so they’ve seen it but won't be taking any notice of it.
Can we have a computer again that still doesn't look like a trash bin?
How about a computer that doesn't belong in a trashbin?
When I bought my Mac Pro 3,1 new back in 2008 it was likewise competitively priced. I think in general the Mac Pros have always been good value when first shipped compared to similar systems from HP etc
A lot of us did not share your perception.
I concur, when it first came out we got 3 of them at work maxed out plus a competitors product that was far faster and almost $1100 cheaper with better onsite support .... and upgradable. its now running 4 Titan cards for rendering after being demoted from the production line for far bigger and faster.
heh, in nyc, you'll be fined if you do that
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http://www1.nyc.gov/assets/dsny/zerowaste/residents/electronics.shtml
watch at :40 seconds.. a guy 'e-cycling' a cMP ; )
I don't think he was there to e-cycle. He was in the wrong line for a refund. Someone sold him a "cMP" with just one optical port!
If the mMP has PCIe slots, he better count them before he leaves! Thats ok, I'm not expecting you too...But some people seem to agree with me. Ironically, one post down from yours:
I agree.
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Id love if they could keep it around the same size. Traveling with it and an OWC Thunderbay around the globe has been amazing. But i guess LT's are making that usage scenario matter less and less.
So I've had a few weeks to ponder over this topic. Here is what I conclude, if Apple can somehow prevent Jonathan Ives from designing the Mac Pro, the better off us "pros" will be. Jonathan Ives is a phenomenal designer. However, I don't feel that he is the correct fit for this specific project. His style is TOO minimal and sleek.
We need someone that can make new Mac Pro closer to the older Macs industrial design: upgradable, tough, charming, with a touch of finesse.
Here is another thread, where I share this idea:
We need someone that can make new Mac Pro closer to the older Macs industrial design: upgradable, tough, charming, with a touch of finesse.
Here is another thread, where I share this idea:
Besides the Cheesegrater, I loved both of the following towers. I wouldn't mind if they took inspiration from these:
ahhhh the old 950 give it more drive bays both internal and external ( hot swaps ) and I could be a happy girl once again.
give it more drive bays both internal and external ( hot swaps ) and I could be a happy girl once again.I'd be curious as to what configuration of the 6,1 he purchased.
The 3,1 was a good deal, I still have mine, bought it as a closeout (not a refurb) for around $2400, the 4,1s started that Nehalem nonsense and we're overpriced (the 2.26 base config was a pig), the shift to Westmere in the 5,1s was once again, a fair, if not spectacular deal.
6,1 qualifies as grand theft/fraud IMHO, reminds me of Trump Steaks.
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Want mine? It's out in the garage somewhere I think.ahhhh the old 950
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I sent an email to Tim about the concept when Pascal Eggert first unveiled it
do we even know if j.Ive designed the macPro? (be it the classic G5 or nMP variety)?
i've always got the feeling he didn't play much of a role in those (well, i'm sure he played a role in getting it from design to reality, such as manufacturing processes or technical problem solving ideas.. just not much of a role in the initial design.).
that said, i've never seen anything conclusive and would be interested in reading such material if anyone has a link.
i mean, i've never seen a video/promo that features Jony Ive alongside the MacPro in a similar way we've seen him with products we know to be his designs.. iMac, macBookPro, iPhone, iPad, non click iPod.
for all we may know, having specifically j.Ive design a 21century desktop PC may be a good thing.
What do you mean at a price?
The 2013 cost a bundle as it is upwards of 10K in a different config so how much more do you think they can ask since these barely sold.
The 2013 cost a bundle as it is upwards of 10K in a different config so how much more do you think they can ask since these barely sold.
Biggest fears:
•Overdesigned. Proprietary interfaces. Do they *ever* work out in the long run!? (no)
•Solder & Glue. Components need to be able to be swapped around easily by the user to tailor the workstation to their specific needs. The few and insufferable BTO's Apple tends to provide are way too limited and are cleverly designed to hike up the price for most.
•Overpriced. Because Apple.
•Under powered. Both in terms of benchmarks and PSU, users should be able to throw in 4 Titan X GPUs without killing the PSU.
•AMD-only. nVidia is preferred in some industries/software circles.
•No space for expansion. I don't want a desk/floor full of peripherals connected via cable-spaghetti. I love being able to house 4+ high capacity drives inside my cheesegrater, neatly out of the way inside the enclosure.
•Lack of Ram-slots. I'm hoping for at least 8, but preferably 16 Ram slots so we can drop in >128 GB of Ram without having to shell out for the highest capacity modules at extreme cost.
•No long-term support. I fear Apple might thrown us a bone and then pis-ses off for another 3+ years designing pink and rainbow coloured watchbands.
Apple's got their work cut out for them. They need to get this Mac Pro absolutely perfect. Outstanding performance, price, and design. And most importantly, they need to show unwavering, long-term commitment.
Apple has lost a ton of goodwill from professional creatives. Once bitten and twice shy will mean that I (and I suspect many others) will stay well clear of Apple for the foreseeable future, no matter what the MP7.1 ends up as. I fear many who've left already are lost for good. Schiller, Schiller... what ever were you thinking!
•Overdesigned. Proprietary interfaces. Do they *ever* work out in the long run!? (no)
•Solder & Glue. Components need to be able to be swapped around easily by the user to tailor the workstation to their specific needs. The few and insufferable BTO's Apple tends to provide are way too limited and are cleverly designed to hike up the price for most.
•Overpriced. Because Apple.
•Under powered. Both in terms of benchmarks and PSU, users should be able to throw in 4 Titan X GPUs without killing the PSU.
•AMD-only. nVidia is preferred in some industries/software circles.
•No space for expansion. I don't want a desk/floor full of peripherals connected via cable-spaghetti. I love being able to house 4+ high capacity drives inside my cheesegrater, neatly out of the way inside the enclosure.
•Lack of Ram-slots. I'm hoping for at least 8, but preferably 16 Ram slots so we can drop in >128 GB of Ram without having to shell out for the highest capacity modules at extreme cost.
•No long-term support. I fear Apple might thrown us a bone and then pis-ses off for another 3+ years designing pink and rainbow coloured watchbands.
Apple's got their work cut out for them. They need to get this Mac Pro absolutely perfect. Outstanding performance, price, and design. And most importantly, they need to show unwavering, long-term commitment.
Apple has lost a ton of goodwill from professional creatives. Once bitten and twice shy will mean that I (and I suspect many others) will stay well clear of Apple for the foreseeable future, no matter what the MP7.1 ends up as. I fear many who've left already are lost for good. Schiller, Schiller... what ever were you thinking!
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I bought a few ProLiants in March (end of quarter budget) and noticed that the 64 GiB DDR LRDIMMs were actually cheaper per byte than the 32 GiB DIMMs. (Since the dual socket ProLiants have 24 DIMM slots, that's 1536 GiB per system max.)
The 128 GiB DDR DIMMs were still at a hefty premium per byte, however. Won't be going to 3 TiB per system this year.
sure, but I rather doubt the shipping costs are worth it
I would have fun building a Hack-Pro into that old case.I read a couple of articles suggesting he did design the G5. There was even a Wired interview with him on the matter. The G5 design (and cMP) was already quite minimalist, nMP was a continuation of that philosophy.
I bet they're going back to the drawing boards for this upcoming Mac Pro with the same philosophy, even after realizing they pushed it maybe too far with the nMP. After all that philosophy has always been the very essence of Apple.
hmm.. yeah.
i guess according to this Wired article: (the same one you've mentioned?)
https://www.wired.com/2003/06/design-according-to-ive/
..Jony Ive did in fact design the G5/cMP.
After the machine's unveiling by Apple CEO Steve Jobs, the chattering began. But the man primarily responsible for the stark, minimalist look of the G5, Jonathan Ive, stood quietly at the edge of the crowd, chatting with a couple of colleagues.
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heh, well that's sort of weird to think about.
i too think they're doing something like you're talking about.. trying to start at a clean slate basically.
and i also think they'll follow similar philosophy or essence as you say.
which likely means we won't really be seeing a traditional tower.. apple's deconstruction of the tower/box form has already happened 15yrs ago.. and they arrived at the cmp.. they can't take the tower any further since it's already been minimalized so to speak..
so, if we're going to be seeing towerMacPro7_1, it pretty much has to be the cMP with modern internal components..
and i really don't think that's going to happen.. or if it does, ironically, that will be THE signal that apple designers can not innovate their asses any longer.. it's the white flag waving 'we give up'.
(ironic because some of the people at MRforums think that's already the case.. that apple designers pretty much suc these days.. and that they should just re-issue cMP)
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fwiw, i think while nmp may not be successful, there was a lot apple has accomplished with it that will hopefully make it through to the next version.. the nmp is solid/well built, they made great use of space, various new (to computers) manufacturing methods were developed.. things like that..
There's the rub.sure, but I rather doubt the shipping costs are worth it
I was thinking of making it into a toaster, with that big Power Supply, maybe a steak grill or a pizza oven, but for now it's resting comfortably.
I hope when the robot overlords take over (let's face it, most people are no where near as smart as their phones, so it won't be long) they look kindly on those of us who took good care of their distant cousins.
A point we didn't discuss so much, is why the mMP will take to the next year to be available, since Apple its aware how urgent its needed in their market:
A modular ISA PCIe Mac Pro dont need more than 9 months to be developed, barely Apple only need to wait for Intel reference designs for the logic board, replace its UEFI with Apple EFI and ask Johnny Ive for a descent Case for It, thats quick and it maybe ready now in 80%.
But they ask a full year, what it means?
AMD Vega? no most VEGA Workstation Class GPU should be Available for early Q2, even quicker in ISA PCIe form factor.
nVidia? even quicker than AMD Vega, nVidia only needs to mature its Pascal Drivers.
Intel Skylake-W (xeon), it will be commercially availabe early Q2 too, so Apple may have a decent Intel Based Mac for Q3, and they must have now plenty Intel Skylake-W prototype and early production and reference material how to deliver this quick.
Vega 20? AMD timeframe dont expect it to be available until Q3'18
So why that long?
Simple: its enough time to redesign all the proprietary stuff, from PCIe interfaces to NVMe, and optimize cooling options and run long burn tests on these machines.
Another maybe is Apple consider to adopt AMD Naples Architecture even AMD Naples APUs, since both wont be available (and enough debugged) until Q4.
But My biggest fear is Apple to adopt AMD Naples APU for the mMP, while are not the same APU AMD will made available soon for mainstream, AMD Naples APU combines 8?/16/32? Zen Cores with VEGA 10/11 Cores on the same MCM as 8/16GB HBM2 memory, a monster MCM which can be delivered in 2P configurations, a efficiency monster for HPC implementations, and certainly it will allow an modular Mac Pro as tiny as the tcMP, but at the expense to be tied to AMD Update Cycles, and Worst this Naples APU depends deeply in HPC projects to be a long term product, even worst it denies any possibility to include nVidia GPU to the mix.
AMD Naples APU may promise efficiency and performance like no other in HPC, but its software layer its far behind nVidia (BTW nVidia is developing a similar APU with IBM based on PowerX and Pascal, I would like Apple to comeback to PowerPC architecture then).
A modular ISA PCIe Mac Pro dont need more than 9 months to be developed, barely Apple only need to wait for Intel reference designs for the logic board, replace its UEFI with Apple EFI and ask Johnny Ive for a descent Case for It, thats quick and it maybe ready now in 80%.
But they ask a full year, what it means?
AMD Vega? no most VEGA Workstation Class GPU should be Available for early Q2, even quicker in ISA PCIe form factor.
nVidia? even quicker than AMD Vega, nVidia only needs to mature its Pascal Drivers.
Intel Skylake-W (xeon), it will be commercially availabe early Q2 too, so Apple may have a decent Intel Based Mac for Q3, and they must have now plenty Intel Skylake-W prototype and early production and reference material how to deliver this quick.
Vega 20? AMD timeframe dont expect it to be available until Q3'18
So why that long?
Simple: its enough time to redesign all the proprietary stuff, from PCIe interfaces to NVMe, and optimize cooling options and run long burn tests on these machines.
Another maybe is Apple consider to adopt AMD Naples Architecture even AMD Naples APUs, since both wont be available (and enough debugged) until Q4.
But My biggest fear is Apple to adopt AMD Naples APU for the mMP, while are not the same APU AMD will made available soon for mainstream, AMD Naples APU combines 8?/16/32? Zen Cores with VEGA 10/11 Cores on the same MCM as 8/16GB HBM2 memory, a monster MCM which can be delivered in 2P configurations, a efficiency monster for HPC implementations, and certainly it will allow an modular Mac Pro as tiny as the tcMP, but at the expense to be tied to AMD Update Cycles, and Worst this Naples APU depends deeply in HPC projects to be a long term product, even worst it denies any possibility to include nVidia GPU to the mix.
AMD Naples APU may promise efficiency and performance like no other in HPC, but its software layer its far behind nVidia (BTW nVidia is developing a similar APU with IBM based on PowerX and Pascal, I would like Apple to comeback to PowerPC architecture then).
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It's going to take a year because they probably didn't make a decision to reverse course until a month ago (or less).
Given what has (or hasn't) happened in the last three years, it's probably not wise to speculate around chipset releases. The only thing holding Apple back is themselves.
Given what has (or hasn't) happened in the last three years, it's probably not wise to speculate around chipset releases. The only thing holding Apple back is themselves.