Doubleing battery life for 3mm? You should patent that.
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The next MacBook Pro redesign (merged)
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True that we won't see double the battery life happen anytime soon. But I am sure of two things, that
1) One day we will have laptops which offer true all day performance, and
2) By buying into the thin-ness nonsense, and mistakenly thinking we have NOT been brainwashed as a society into feeling we need/want/must have thinner, I am pretty sure that we are not yet on the right path. They won't make all day battery until we demand it. No one is demanding it. Everyone is talking about thinness, which is no longer important, as laptops are now thinner than books.
You'd be surprised with the new battery layering technology how an additional layer of 3mm of battery, covering 30x20cm (600 square centimetres) ... would go quite a way to extending battery life. Anyone willing to do the volumetric math?
The point here is, manufacturers have succeeded by feature-sensationalising one of the least important aspects as being important, which is additional additional layers of thinness applied and mere millimetres shaved off. They have already succeeded in doing that brainwashing, capitalising on the shrinkage progress made in the mobile phone industry.
Watching the kids rave about the additional almost immeasurable thinness is comical. We don't need it. In fact, phones do not need to be thinner. We have reached that point and further thinning in phones and laptops is unnecessary.
And we won't see all day battery life, until we as a collective start demanding it.
As I said before, technology WILL shrink in size. Apple will do this whether we want it, or ask for it, or not. Given that technology (in size) is/will shrink, what I am actually saying is... please Apple, do not make laptops a few millimetres thinner each release. Please retain the volumetric size and focus on developing a laptop which can run for 12 hours of heavy, processor intensive usage (as opposed to just a couple of hours usage and a claimed all day battery life).
It's you that is out of the norm, not Apple and the other manufacturers. Apple's laptops, at least, already have 'good enough' battery life for the vast majority of use cases. 8-10 hours means the average person can be away from their desk all day and not need to charge. Going from 8 to 16 hours of battery life isn't going to materially change how the device is used by those people. Volume and weight matter a lot though, and the difference between a device like the current 13" MBP and a MacBook Air or the rMB is huge in how it is carried daily. If you don't notice that I'm going to go out on a (very short) limb and guess you are a guy who carries around a pretty bulky bag most of the time, so you don't care. But for many people, having a device that is about 2lbs and thinner than a single subject paper notebook fundamentally changes how they carry the device. Women can tuck them in their normal purse and barely notice it, meaning they can carry it everywhere without having to think about it or carry another bag. It can be used in the small footprint of a table on an airplane or on a train. These are differences that people will appreciate every time they use the device, which is why Apple is looking to make all of their devices as thin and light as possible.
What if the new OLED bar was the new dock?
All the app icons will be there, summoned with a touch, and the screen will be completely available for full screen apps.
Not sure if I like my own idea...
All the app icons will be there, summoned with a touch, and the screen will be completely available for full screen apps.
Not sure if I like my own idea...
Could it do both? I don't know how they would implement switching it, but they already use the fn row for two different things per button, so why not three?
Personally I'm hoping for context-aware controls, so each app could choose what to use it for.
Personally I'm hoping for context-aware controls, so each app could choose what to use it for.
My laptop almost never leaves the house.
So, speaking on behalf of others whose devices do go traveling, plus on behalf of myself and the traveling I intend to do (more recreational than work)... as a person who bought my 2014 apple laptop which had a claimed 11 hour battery life (I think) and finding that it only gets 4 hours before its dead working in 2D (not video), I am yet to be swayed that the need is, AT ALL, on thinner laptops. It is in actually not a need to go even thinner at all.
As we are in the MBP thread, I reiterate:
1) The next MBP will be thinner. Fact. Guaranteed.
2) I wish more was being done to increase battery life. 4 hours is not a full day or anywhere close. That benchmark must have been a brand new install of the OS on new hardware running a single pages document with screen brightness set to zero!
I rest my case. Your usage is so far out of the norm that Apple can't possibly be expected to design a laptop just for your needs.
You guys like to talk about how "thinness" isn't an important factor, and how easy it would be to add battery into a given volume, but you are leaving an important part out of the discussion: "lightness". I agree that laptops are probably as thin as they need to be, but adding extra battery into a laptop will dramatically increase its weight. A heavy laptop is a drag to carry, and a drag to work with when not at a desk... So if you can't add battery without making a device heavy, wouldn't you take thin when it's essentially free?
tldr: lightness is the goal, thinness is a free side effect.
tldr: lightness is the goal, thinness is a free side effect.
I agree wholly, but I do also believe that total volume plays an important role as well. Somewhere around the sub 2.5lb mark, and at the thickness of the current MBA, the device finally reaches the stage where it largely disappears into the weight of a bag. It's never hard to find room for it, and it's barely noticed when you are carrying it. It's the reason that my work computer is a Surface Pro, which was for a long time among the thinnest and lightest full featured Windows laptops you could get.
So, is it because I look forward with hope to a day when battery size does increase (as it has done recently with clever volumetrics) ... or is it because I disagree that an "All day" claim is not all day, when it is in fact 4 hours of regular constant use (or just a couple of hours of intense use)... which part is it that makes you want to debate?
I say again lol, we have been sold the idea that thin-ness is to be sought after, and apple believe it is more important than battery life, which they are not making better use of, each time they create a new thinner laptop, they discard space that could have been used for extra battery power.
Perhaps you don't see the whole picture.
Apple and other manufacturers will continue to focus on thinness, to sell new models, get media attention, to look good, etc.
The day apple makes a laptop with double the battery power, they will sell less laptops, as they will be injecting longevity into the design.
Easier/better to focus on thinness. Tout it. Get everyone excited about ultra thin. That is where the profit lies. And that is what I am against.
You are so far out of the norm that you can't even tell where the rest of us are. No user that is anywhere in the heart of the curve of 'average' use gets anything like 4 hours, much less 2, from a modern MBP...
The point I made about, for example, 3mm of thickness being shaved off, and my hope that instead, that 3mm would be used for extra battery, going on to explain that will not happen as thinness is the focus... all of that went over your head.
We will get a thinner rMBP.
However much thinner, be it 1,2 or 3mm, it would be nice if 80% of that space was just used to cram in more battery cells.
Im not going to get involved discussing the weight of the laptop in a bag as regards this 2-3mm, I doubt I would be able to tell the difference without a set of kitchen scales.
All that aside... we are getting a thinner rMBP. When, I wonder, will the overall total battery life become "more of a selling point, than thickness of the laptop" - Hard to say. 5 years maybe 10. Historically, consumers have always been slower to respond to what is sensible, and more prone to responding to marketing hype, certainly so in all retail and other lines where practicality (or what is best for the consumer) is concerned.
They do make a powerful computer for desktop use with all day power... it's called an iMac. When you're sitting at a desk battery life doesn't matter.
I don't think I am too far out of the norm on this occasion to include all the rooms and space inside (and also just outside) the house, as my normal computing area. The iMac is there for when I'm at my desk, as you cleverly pointed out.
Not sure which is the more difficult, staying on topic, or asking apple to put the next 2-3mm towards extra battery instead of more shaved space
There's desktop replacements and there's laptops. The 13" is definitely for carrying around. A lighter laptop makes that so much more convenient.
Agreed. Im less keen on the 15 inch due to its sheer size.
And very keen, still, that if they manage to shave off another 3mm on the space within the 13 inch... that it goes toward battery.
If you want ultra thin hipster-products to sip your latte at the next StarBucks, you are no professional.
Nothing against this user group, Apple has forced them into the MacBook Pros by killing their other lineups.
If someone doesn't want a 12" notebook with unusual keyboard or an Air with garbage screen with giant bezel there are only the Pros left and Apple doesn't sell most of their Pros (especially 13") to Pros anymore.
Following lineup would be fine:
12" + 14" Ultrathin, Core M, no ports MacBook
13" + 15" Normal dualcore consumer notebook with plenty IO. 15w for the 13" and 28w for the 15"
14" + 16" MacBook Pro with quadcore, M2 slots, RAM slots, lots of IO. 14" without dGPU, 16" with powerful dGPU.
Nothing against this user group, Apple has forced them into the MacBook Pros by killing their other lineups.
If someone doesn't want a 12" notebook with unusual keyboard or an Air with garbage screen with giant bezel there are only the Pros left and Apple doesn't sell most of their Pros (especially 13") to Pros anymore.
Following lineup would be fine:
12" + 14" Ultrathin, Core M, no ports MacBook
13" + 15" Normal dualcore consumer notebook with plenty IO. 15w for the 13" and 28w for the 15"
14" + 16" MacBook Pro with quadcore, M2 slots, RAM slots, lots of IO. 14" without dGPU, 16" with powerful dGPU.
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There are many options in the Mac lineup for light machines for travelling. There is ONE alternative for a portable powerhouse. If they turn that SINGLE alternative into another Macbook Air they'll lose developers, and those developers are making all the iPhone apps they're making money from.
As a developer, I want to be able to run 10 docker containers, two vms and at least forty Chrome tabs alongside my podcasts, social media clients, editors and terminals.
If that means you can't fit the machine into your jeans pocket, how about you go further down the store and look at an ipod touch instead.
As a developer, I want to be able to run 10 docker containers, two vms and at least forty Chrome tabs alongside my podcasts, social media clients, editors and terminals.
If that means you can't fit the machine into your jeans pocket, how about you go further down the store and look at an ipod touch instead.
You're going to be very disappointed.
Also, can we stop acting like "processor heavy users" defines professionals? There are people that need a desktop replacement for processor heavy applications and people that don't. Most people that buy a 13" laptop intend to carry it around without it hurting their shoulder or back. The same can probably be said about a 15" too. These are mobile devices that people need to like carrying around. It sounds like you need a proper desktop.
- I'm glad that you know your needs (not sarcasm), but you are not the market. The market is segmented according to different needs. If someone does not have your exact usage needs, that does not make them brainwashed according to your language. (Are Apple users "Sheeple" because we have different needs and values from PC users? Having different needs does not make everyone else your enemy or weak or stupid)
- Apple can't serve everyone all the time. They have to serve their "strategic customer", the customer willing to pay and fund the company. If they serve you, they become less appealing to everyone else, and lose more money than just "one customer".
- Everyone is competing on thin, light, more portable. Even the processors are being sold to their clients (eg Apple, Acer, HP, Microsoft) based on efficiency so that battery reduction may occur.
- Most people do not use a laptop for 12 hours on the go. In those rare late night sessions, that's what a desk and outlet are for. And if you enjoy the extra battery for travel, you can buy battery packs for your specific needs. Win-win. Otherwise, why should >95% of buyers suffer the feature only <5% need?
- Of course more life out of the battery is welcome by all, but at what price? Portability? Heft?
- Most people looking at laptops seek portability and comfort. That's what thinner and lighter mean.
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Your comments lead me to believe you don't actually have the foresight to appreciate the extent to which you have been brainwashed. So I'll leave you to it.
Looking at the new terraced contoured cells, and bearing in mind that much of a batteries volumetric space is on inner and outer layers of protective battery containment materials, plus battery housing structural plastics etc, along the lines of volumetric math whereby the retaining layers have similar volume to the volume of the substance (battery cells) being contained...
You aren't seeing that it is actually just a small number of millimeters of actual battery space/volume/capacity that are used, and that by adding another 3mm of battery height across an area the size of the keyboard, we would go a long way to doubling the battery life.
What you are not seeing also, is that apple will sell more laptops over the next 20 years, by not rolling out this intelligence in design now, and by not touting it (it* being longer battery life).
This has very little to do with me (Im never far from a power source and am not one of those users who is out there in the field on the go, I don't need a longer battery life daily, etc... but I want one).
The science behind and investment of energy that goes into the psychology of creating hardware needs and wants in users is as sophisticated as the technology inside the machines themselves.
Apple could easily double battery life, without adding much bulk, at all, to the next generation of laptops.
Forget doubling battery life. In real terms, what I am saying is that, along with the space saving technological advancements, instead of shaving off 3mm, apple could if they wanted to, add 50% more battery life, and that might involve adding a few mm instead.
This would boost sales of the next generation that featured this super high capacity battery, but would have an adverse affect on the sales of the generation of laptops that followed.
There are half a dozen minds at work, when a user buys a laptop. What the consumer thinks they want, what they think they know they want, and what they really need. There are also the voices of what the manufacturer has told consumers they need, what the manufacturer has touted as being an element to focus on, and very rarely (if ever) do marketing giants/manufacturers design brands to satisfy consumers in such a way that they reduce their future sales, by giving users a longer lasting product.
This way of thinking seems to be outside your scope of understanding, but it is, I'm afraid, the very essence of marketing.
If Apple were to add a few mm instead of shaving a few mm off, and add 50-80% of additional battery life to their various MacBooks, and also offer the user the ability to add far, far more ram themselves from third parties, they would be increasing the number of units they sold initially, but damaging sales the generation beyond, somewhat.
You must remember that there is not one, or two or even half a dozen types of buyer. There are hundreds of types, each who feel slightly differently about their own complex understanding of what they feel they need.
Apple can significantly increase battery life, by ceasing (for 2 generations) to do further slim reductions, focusing on battery capacity instead.
You can't argue that slimness is everything and deny that you haven't been brainwashed by apple, when it comes to apple products, and I'll tell you why. The reason is that they are already the manufacturers of the worlds slimmest most powerful mainstream laptop, and to talk about bag space, sore backs, sore shoulders etc kind of overlooks that every other manufacturer over the last 25 years has sold plenty of laptops and does to this day, which are thicker, heavier, bulkier and bigger.
So, going back to those 3mm (lets just run with a 3mm figure for arguments sake)... apple are not going to stop and say hey, ok, this next generation, lets just keep the size we have. We have already reduced the size every generation for a long time and already have incredibly powerful and portable technology. Lets keep the size the smallest and thinnest for just one generation, and cram in another few mm of battery.
It won't happen for so many reasons.
But if they did offer a laptop in 2 flavours, one being 3mm thicker with added battery capacity, at the SAME price, we all know which one would sell ten times better!
To argue that you need 3mm shaved off, instead of apple making an inconsequential decision (regarding your ability to carry your laptop) and focus instead of battery capacity, you have been brainwashed. And apple have done their job.
Another reason it won't happen, is why would apple forego their leading position of the thinnest coolest most in demand you must have this item THINNESS first place pole position as industry leaders, to please consumers with a bigger battery which means less need for upgrading? They won't for that reason too.
You say I'm brainwashed, but then go on a long battery/engineering rant. So which is it?
- Am I brainwashed?
- Or am I ignorant or just not have a degree in battery systems engineering?
- Here is a Dell 7.55 lbs laptop with up to 13 hours battery life made for your happiness. Enjoy your Dell.
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