The Next MacBook Pro Update

[CalBoy]

This is how most NAND flash devices work already, as I understand it. I can't find the place where I read this recently, but I'm pretty sure that, say, an old 32 MB CF card is actually something like 36 MB for redundancy's sake.

Hmmm...that represents a 12.5% "buffer" capacity. I suppose that if it was to be viable for primary storage, 20-25% might have to be set aside for this purpose. IE, if the consumer wants a 160GB HD, the amount of Flash that would have to be in place would have to be around 192-200GB. Like I said before though, its greatest advantage might be as a bootup and OS holder. This represents about 10-20GB (depending on OS), which will allow for more energy efficiency, better bootup speeds, and less noise.

 

[colto]

This is how most NAND flash devices work already, as I understand it. I can't find the place where I read this recently, but I'm pretty sure that, say, an old 32 MB CF card is actually something like 36 MB for redundancy's sake.

Interesting. At first I figured you mighty be mistaken for the size of the drive before and after formatting; but I think the actual size and the reported size would be something like 32 mb and 29 mb respectively.

 

[cervaro]

Couldn't Apple address the HDMI out issue by doing what ATI have done with the Radeon 2xxx series graphics cards, i.e. have a DVI-HDMI dongle that takes the audio & video out to a suitable display when needed, and use the DVI socket as now for use with a monitor?

 

[joehack]

Intel recently announced a refresh of ther C2D mobile cpus. Essentially, the clock gets a boost of 200 MHz across the line (max. 2.6 GHz without heat bonus). Maybe the smallest MBP will get a better graphics card.
I assume they will be available either as of the Paris event or the Leopard release.

Jochen

 

[colto]

Intel recently announced a refresh of ther C2D mobile cpus. Essentially, the clock gets a boost of 200 MHz across the line (max. 2.6 GHz without heat bonus). Maybe the smallest MBP will get a better graphics card.
I assume they will be available either as of the Paris event or the Leopard release.

Jochen

Yeah but I don't see Apple giving such a small update. Not enough incentive to buy too me. A better graphics card would great for the 2.2 15" but then they will have to boost the 2.4 15" and 17" to an 8700m and that's as high as the graphics cards go right now. Apple really needs to stick with nVidia too. nVidia has the DX10 ability and the Linux support. Makes me wonder if Penryn will be implemented early in Santa Rosa, a little later in Montevina, or if the refreshed C2Ds will be used in Santa Rosa.

 

[nre999]

>New magnetic or re-engineered lid clasp

I am unsure why everyone is so keen on the magnetic enclosure that MacBooks have. Personally I would be very nervous about that much magnetism coming from my notebook (yes I know aluminium is non-magnetic) but, I don't know - I just don't get it.

Now it would be interesting to see an update to the clasp I have on my SR MBP (but to be honest I haven't had a mac notebook since an iBook G4 and I always loved this clasp design).

As far as BlueRay/HD-DVD is concerned I think it would be a mistake to offer one without the other as an equally priced option. Since the interested parties can't make up there mind, let the consumer decide.

 

[flopticalcube]

I am unsure why everyone is so keen on the magnetic enclosure that MacBooks have. Personally I would be very nervous about that much magnetism coming from my notebook (yes I know aluminium is non-magnetic) but, I don't know - I just don't get it.

Fewer mechanical components = greater reliability

As long as things are properly shielded, it shouldn't matter.

 

[nre999]

Fewer mechanical components = greater reliability

Hmmm. I am not sure if I buy that statement at all. Granted if there are fewer mechanical components there will be well fewer mechanical components to gail (nice truism!). However I think it is niave to think that non-mechanical technology inherently has a lower failure rate. There may be a lower rate of mechanical failure, but failure may happen differently. I would suspect that over time there would be an equal amount of failure with the magnetic latch than the current semi-magnetic mechanical one they have now.

For isntance, have you ever tried to use a virtual keyboard( http://www.virtual-laser-keyboard.com/)? Failure rate in accurate typing on those are much higher than a traditional mechanical keyboard - with NO moving parts. And unless I am mistaken Solid State memory has a higher failure rate than magnetic drives (I am pretty sure but not 100%).

I think the appeal may be something more asthetic than practical (although Apple is known for minimizing moving parts). But this just makes me glad I have my SR MBP with the mechanical latch, I just am not comfortable with the entire frame of my display being magnetic. Especially if something goes wrong and it has to be fixed.

But if it is an asthetic thing, then each to his/her own.

 

[flopticalcube]

Hmmm. I am not sure if I buy that statement ...

The older Powerbook latches where notorious for failure. We are talking about a simple magnet here. This is elementary physics. When was the last time you saw a magnet fail?

 

[CalBoy]

Hmmm. I am not sure if I buy that statement at all. Granted if there are fewer mechanical components there will be well fewer mechanical components to gail (nice truism!). However I think it is niave to think that non-mechanical technology inherently has a lower failure rate. There may be a lower rate of mechanical failure, but failure may happen differently. I would suspect that over time there would be an equal amount of failure with the magnetic latch than the current semi-magnetic mechanical one they have now.

For isntance, have you ever tried to use a virtual keyboard( http://www.virtual-laser-keyboard.com/)? Failure rate in accurate typing on those are much higher than a traditional mechanical keyboard - with NO moving parts. And unless I am mistaken Solid State memory has a higher failure rate than magnetic drives (I am pretty sure but not 100%).

I think the appeal may be something more asthetic than practical (although Apple is known for minimizing moving parts). But this just makes me glad I have my SR MBP with the mechanical latch, I just am not comfortable with the entire frame of my display being magnetic. Especially if something goes wrong and it has to be fixed.

But if it is an asthetic thing, then each to his/her own.

The magnets used to hold the macbook shut are fairly strong. Sure, over time the magnet field will weaken, but not by much. Those magnets will outlast any latch that is on a mbp. The magnetic latch also makes it easier to open the notebook.

And now, just to mess with you, did you know that the macbook pro also has magnets built into its latching system?

 

[nre999]

The older Powerbook latches where notorious for failure. We are talking about a simple magnet here. This is elementary physics. When was the last time you saw a magnet fail?

First let me apologize, I was responding to your blanket statement about failure. It just seemed to me that you were making a general statement that things with fewer mechanical parts by virtue of having fewer mechanical parts have a lower failure rate. Since you were talking about a simple magnet, that must not be the case.

Second, I doubt that it is a simple magnet that is part of the latch. While I agree magentism is a simple concept to grasp (the whole dipole unity and all). I just wonder how Apple would balance out the magnetic field of the magents to protect harddrives etc. With plastic componants it would be easier because of the low conductivity rate and the ability to shield more effectively.

Just thoughts, like I said I could be wrong. But regardless if the correctness about the whole magnetic thing, I still would not want one (which was the point of my post).

I like the mechanical latch my MBP currently has.

 

[flopticalcube]

First let me apologize, I was responding to your blanket statement about failure. It just seemed to me that you were making a general statement that things with fewer mechanical parts by virtue of having fewer mechanical parts have a lower failure rate. Since you were talking about a simple magnet, that must not be the case.

Second, I doubt that it is a simple magnet that is part of the latch. While I agree magentism is a simple concept to grasp (the whole dipole unity and all). I just wonder how Apple would balance out the magnetic field of the magents to protect harddrives etc. With plastic componants it would be easier because of the low conductivity rate and the ability to shield more effectively.

Just thoughts, like I said I could be wrong. But regardless if the correctness about the whole magnetic thing, I still would not want one (which was the point of my post).

I like the mechanical latch my MBP currently has.

Its a blanket statement that holds true. Mechanical systems are on the whole more prone to failure than their non-mechanical (electrical, magnetic, what have you) equivalents because friction cannot act against these things to wear them down and they are less prone to stress fractures as they are normally not under stress.

I am not privy to Apple's engineering regarding the magnetic latch but it would not surprise me if it was just a simple magnet.

Any components inside that require magnetic shielding can easily be protected by a thin film of shielding foil. The casing material is a moot point.

 

[CalBoy]

I just wonder how Apple would balance out the magnetic field of the magents to protect harddrives etc.

Remember, magnets don't have to be on the body of the notebook, just the lid/display. The substance underneath the primary body could be something as simple as a thin piece of iron. That way, the magnetic field wouldn't become too intense, and while the notebook is in use, there would be no potential for damage to the HD.

I like the mechanical latch my MBP currently has.

Like I posted above, it too has magnets.

 

[cptpower]

I'm looking at buying a MBP in the next month or so, basically waiting for Leopard to come out; all the bells & whistles are way too attractive.

Completely new to the Mac world though (this will be my first Apple purchase, excluding my iPod); what do you all think the odds are that a MBP/MB refresh will be done at the same time as the release of Leopard? I'm guessing that release will be another big-deal keynote by Jobs, so he'll have to have more to talk about than just the OS, wouldn't you think?

Seems like the timing of things for that refresh would have to put it around October for the bulk of the Holiday orders to get done to.

Just a couple thoughts; what do you think?

 

[CalBoy]

I'm looking at buying a MBP in the next month or so, basically waiting for Leopard to come out; all the bells & whistles are way too attractive.

Completely new to the Mac world though (this will be my first Apple purchase, excluding my iPod); what do you all think the odds are that a MBP/MB refresh will be done at the same time as the release of Leopard? I'm guessing that release will be another big-deal keynote by Jobs, so he'll have to have more to talk about than just the OS, wouldn't you think?

Seems like the timing of things for that refresh would have to put it around October for the bulk of the Holiday orders to get done to.

Just a couple thoughts; what do you think?

Do a search. Many have expressed their opinions about this; it would be futile to try to recapture the views of over 100,000 members.

 

[colto]

I'm looking at buying a MBP in the next month or so, basically waiting for Leopard to come out; all the bells & whistles are way too attractive.

Completely new to the Mac world though (this will be my first Apple purchase, excluding my iPod); what do you all think the odds are that a MBP/MB refresh will be done at the same time as the release of Leopard? I'm guessing that release will be another big-deal keynote by Jobs, so he'll have to have more to talk about than just the OS, wouldn't you think?

Seems like the timing of things for that refresh would have to put it around October for the bulk of the Holiday orders to get done to.

Just a couple thoughts; what do you think?

I am in the same boat as you are. I have never personally owned a Mac(though I use them everyday at work). I doubt very highly that a MBP will be released with Leopard. Apple is all about hype and marketing so they will have a whole event dedicated to the MacBook Pro. We will probably be looking at a new release in January(probable during MacWorld) or possibly a little before the holidays(early November). Apple may not have time for a pre-holiday release as their production lines are in full swing with new iPods and iMacs. I think much more probably would be a plain MacBook update pre-holiday and a MBP update in January. Purely speculation though.

 

[cervaro]

If as expected, Leopard offers high-def support via the DVD player, then an interim step for home use, would be to attach an external drive via a caddy with one of the new hybrid LG drives inside that playback HD-DVD and Bluray. Not ideal, but a cheaper way to implement now than I suspect Apple will charge us for a BTO option eventually.

 

[joehack]

I am in the same boat as you are. I have never personally owned a Mac(though I use them everyday at work). I doubt very highly that a MBP will be released with Leopard. Apple is all about hype and marketing so they will have a whole event dedicated to the MacBook Pro. We will probably be looking at a new release in January(probable during MacWorld) or possibly a little before the holidays(early November). Apple may not have time for a pre-holiday release as their production lines are in full swing with new iPods and iMacs. I think much more probably would be a plain MacBook update pre-holiday and a MBP update in January. Purely speculation though.

On the other hand, Apple can't wait too long to refresh MBP. It'll be difficult to explain the customers why e. g. Dell offers faster notebooks.

My wish would be:
MBP 15" 2.4GHz, 256MB VRAM
MBP 15" 2.6GHz, 256MB VRAM (512 MBytes BTO)
MBP 17" 2.6GHz, 512MB VRAM

Jochen

 

[cervaro]

Stick a higher resolution panel in the 15" and I might go for that and an external 24" monitor over the 17" HD model. There's no reason Apple can't do better with the 15" panels when my 4 1/2 year old Toshiba laptop can do 1600x1050 on a 15.4" screen!

 

[D1G1T4L]

On the other hand, Apple can't wait too long to refresh MBP. It'll be difficult to explain the customers why e. g. Dell offers faster notebooks.

My wish would be:
MBP 15" 2.4GHz, 256MB VRAM
MBP 15" 2.6GHz, 256MB VRAM (512 MBytes BTO)
MBP 17" 2.6GHz, 512MB VRAM

Jochen

Hasn't Dell always offered faster notebooks besides right after a refresh?

 

[njp142]

I don't expect any changes except whatever is the most recent Intel chip. They'll probably use the 8600M for a while just like the x1600, and if anything all Apple's other products (iPod, iMac) have started to adapt the silver style of the MBP (maybe the white MacBook becomes silver???). Maybe Blu-ray as an expensive BTO option.

All I personally want is a user-upgradable hard drive. This is more important to me than the screen size and dedicated video.

 

[cptpower]

My wish would be:
MBP 15" 2.4GHz, 256MB VRAM
MBP 15" 2.6GHz, 256MB VRAM (512 MBytes BTO)
MBP 17" 2.6GHz, 512MB VRAM

The 256MB VRAM on the low-end 15" MBP would be great, though I just know that is probably going to happen a few weeks after I buy mine.

 

[JACKN]

Faster graphic on 15' are not possible, as they already underclocked now. Unless a new model performs as cool but faster, which is unlikely for another year. 8700m is not innovative enough to keep cool and faster. 17' is possible have it since they have a bigger space for the heat to go. Should be good to get buyers swinging from high end 15 to 17 like me four months ago. More display ram should be the way to go, as it will allow it to run smoother on external displays.

LED backlit on 17' most likely, and maybe 2.6ghz. Same as before to attrack people for 17s. Pointless to get 2.6ghz on 15', it's simply too hot. Underclock to fit on 15', not much performance to improve. But hey, people likes numbers, don't they. If 2.6ghz on 15 high end, than lower end will start from 2.4ghz.

Higher resolusion, maybe but not really needed on 15'. I found I'm already having a hard time to reading the spreadsheet and web when first only. I've even try to lower down the res abit, but the resulted no good, words are like fading. I'm atually running 1280x800 on my 22' desktop PC, which feels good. People who need more res for graphics design or photo etc, should plug it in a good big desktop screen. They get higher res plus way better color.

Last from apple's point of view. They simple can't make enough 15' atm. All of Apple reseller (Australia) are out of stock since the update at June. You don't even see a display model. I asked the sales about the stock, he said since this update, we haven't have any 15' in stock. They all on back order. we have always get 3 or 4 every business day, but all been ordered. Another good update = more demand = more unhappy buyers

 

[joehack]

LED backlit on 17' most likely, and maybe 2.6ghz. Same as before to attrack people for 17s. Pointless to get 2.6ghz on 15', it's simply too hot. Underclock to fit on 15', not much performance to improve. But hey, people likes numbers, don't they. If 2.6ghz on 15 high end, than lower end will start from 2.4ghz.

The new 2.6GHz C2D has the same heat specs as the current 2.4GHz.

Jochen

 

[JACKN]

Check on some CPU reviews man. Within same heat spec doesn't mean same max load temp. 15' MBP is already running on the racket edge in terms of temperature.