The Nintendo Switch Console Thread

[hawkeye_a]

And that's fine, but you represent a comparatively tiny minority of gamers in that regard. The sales of the Wii U show that. The early failure of the 3DS shows that. The Switch cannot be a success whilst preserving the attribute set that you prefer to the exclusion of the mainstream gamer's expectation, especially with a brand whose brand equity is in the toilet with its target audience outside of a $70 nostalgia purchase.

I can understand that other gamers have difference preferences, but i think its a little simplistic to say that the WiiU and initial 3DS sales were hampered primarily due to their licencing policies and/or online support(or lack thereof). The 3DS price drop and sales show that price was a big factor for that system. And don't get me started with the myriad of other(IMHO more important) issues with the WiiU. (IE While I had no issue with the online/licensing models on either of those systems, I never wanted/owned a WiiU for a host of other reasons).

 

[MRU]

Anyways ... 7 more days and finally we can play Zelda either on Wii U or Switch. That prospect is still something to look forward too.

 

[JohnGrey]

I can understand that other gamers have difference preferences, but i think its a little simplistic to say that the WiiU and initial 3DS sales were hampered primarily due to their licencing policies and/or online support(or lack thereof). The 3DS price drop and sales show that price was a big factor for that system. And don't get me started with the myriad of other(IMHO more important) issues with the WiiU. (IE While I had no issue with the online/licensing models on either of those systems, I never wanted/owned a WiiU for a host of other reasons).

I'm not just talking about the VC, I'm talking about Nintendo's culture as a whole. The Wii U was the purest distilled essence of Nintendo's offering in that it was virtually an outcast. It was a crucible that showed precisely how much draw that Nintendo IP has on its on in the context of a console that does not meet the basic operating criteria of the product category in which it competes, and that draw was laughable. Nintendo cannot afford to 'go its own way again'.

And yes, price was certainly a factor in it, but the value prop loss of that price was compounded by a lack of VC on the 3DS at launch. People want options and, as I've pointed out numerous times, Nintendo's stock in trade is nostalgia. You don't get consumers buying the same VC games over three success devices (Wii, Wii U and 3DS) otherwise.

My overall point is that its insanity for anyone supporting the Switch to justify a value prop loss by saying that they're not interested in it, especially when the intended positioning for the device is as the universal play hub. Home and on the go, console and mobile titles. If it's going to be the jack of all trades, because God knows it does not have the material wherewithal to compete traditionally, then it needs to do all trades, not just the ones that are important to you.
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Anyways ... 7 more days and finally we can play Zelda either on Wii U or Switch. That prospect is still something to look forward too.

I'm sure you are, most people that are buying the Switch seem to hold that out as the saving grace. But I should like to point out that it's a Zelda title. Not only have Zelda titles never gone beyond 8m units sales, ever, the only time that Zelda was a launch title (Wii) it was the second worst core IP (Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Kirby, Smash) launch title of all time by sales, and the weakest in attachment by far.

NES
Super Mario Bros. 40.2m (65% attachment)

SNES
Super Mario World 20.6m (42% attachment)

N64
Super Mario 64 11.9m (36% attachment)

GCN
No core launch title

WII
LoZ: TP 7.6m (7.5% attachment)

WIIU
NSMB U 5.4m (39%)

 

[hawkeye_a]

My overall point is that its insanity for anyone supporting the Switch to justify a value prop loss by saying that they're not interested in it, especially when the intended positioning for the device is as the universal play hub. Home and on the go, console and mobile titles. If it's going to be the jack of all trades, because God knows it does not have the material wherewithal to compete traditionally, then it needs to do all trades, not just the ones that are important to you.

We might be arguing/talking about different things here.

While I agree with the above statement,I specifically dont want them to try to pull off something like what Microsoft hoped to as far as digital content (check-ins, etc). When it comes to online, Nintendo has a tendency to over complicate things (friendcodes, etc), so I'd rather they leave the digital purchases and licencing the way it is. I doubt anyone has any issue with it, apart from it not being tied to an account (as opposed to a console).

When it comes to online gaming, I agree they need to lift their game in this day and age (even though I generally dont care for multiplayer online gaming myself).

While you call the WiiU the "purest distilled essence of Nintendo's offering", I consider it to be their weakest effort (second only to VirtualBoy). It was complicated & intimidating (in every way), it wasn't refined (they threw everything into the controller), and they couldn't even market it properly (Note: this opinion has nothing to do with market success/failure, just *my* criticism of the product).

The Switch, from the hardware, concept and controller seems for more in line with Nintendo doing what it does best. It's simple, refined, and has been marketed well(so far).

Of course, all the above is IMHO

 

[MRU]

I'm sure you are, most people that are buying the Switch seem to hold that out as the saving grace. But I should like to point out that it's a Zelda title. Not only have Zelda titles never gone beyond 8m units sales

Thankfully my enjoyment of a game is not dictated by its sales numbers though.

I loved Windwaker on GameCube and yet it sold very poorly. The recent Deus Ex - Mankind Divided is for me a great sci-fi game and I'm loving my play through, and yet it has sold so poorly that the Deus Ex franchise has now been put out to pasture for the time being.

Likewise games like COD and Battlefield sell huge amounts of copies and even the latest COD : Infinite Warfare despite its middling reviews and general 'meh' user reception was in fact the biggest selling game of 2016... Yet I have never enjoyed those games.

So simply put, the sales numbers of a title are not indicative of my enjoyment or what will govern my own purchases. So inspite of Zelda's sales figures, good bad or indifferent, I am sure I will enjoy BOTW and others will too (be it on Wii U or Switch) and its potential sales numbers or lack of, do not detract for one second from my looking forward to that titles release.

 

[Aneres11]

No RE7, no FFXV, no For Honor, no ME: Andromeda, no Deus Ex. In short, nothing that did or will sell well amongst third party enthusiasts, no draws. In fact there is not a single heavy-drawn or event title that will launch on the Switch contemporaneously with its competitors, if it's releasing at all.

Not yet, no. But give them time. I'm happy to have to wait providing that they just get some games out there like this.

Maybe a lot of the third parties are waiting until the paid online infrastructure is in place before they release their games for the Switch? Shouldn't make a difference but who the hell knows.

I do think they will come, but it's a question of what and when.

 

[JohnGrey]

Thankfully my enjoyment of a game is not dictated by its sales numbers though.

I loved Windwaker on GameCube and yet it sold very poorly. The recent Deus Ex - Mankind Divided is for me a great sci-fi game and I'm loving my play through, and yet it has sold so poorly that the Deus Ex franchise has now been put out to pasture for the time being.

Likewise games like COD and Battlefield sell huge amounts of copies and even the latest COD : Infinite Warfare despite its middling reviews and general 'meh' user reception was in fact the biggest selling game of 2016... Yet I have never enjoyed those games.

So simply put, the sales numbers of a title are not indicative of my enjoyment or what will govern my own purchases. So inspite of Zelda's sales figures, good bad or indifferent, I am sure I will enjoy BOTW and others will too (be it on Wii U or Switch) and its potential sales numbers or lack of, do not detract for one second from my looking forward to that titles release.

My point dealt with how its presence would help, or not help as the case might be, the launch of the Switch. Whenever bad news about the Switch comes up, much like clutching a Rosary in a tense moment, BotW is brought up as a singular bright point and on an individual case it undoubtedly is to some. The discussion heretofore has been how the lack of VC at launch will affect, or not affect, console sales. I was simply pointing out that even the bright point of BotW is, in terms of historical performance, a dicey proposition in terms of moving hardware.
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Not yet, no. But give them time. I'm happy to have to wait providing that they just get some games out there like this.

Maybe a lot of the third parties are waiting until the paid online infrastructure is in place before they release their games for the Switch? Shouldn't make a difference but who the hell knows.

I do think they will come, but it's a question of what and when.

I appreciate optimism, but my own acquaintances in the dev community have told me that the general reaction behind closed doors, at least to parity development (that means releasing non-port games at the same time as competing consoles) has been less like Alain Corre and more like Mohammad Alavi. Which is to say that it's not going to happen, even if its a Wii-type runaway success (recall that the Wii got rubbish third-party support outside of party games and shovelware, despite selling 101m consoles). If the business is there, they'll release custom builds six to eight months afterward, and that will be for broad appeal games like sports, nothing a niche as a big-budget JRPG (like FFXV or VII remake) or survival horror. Of course, you can and should take that with a grain of salt, but it is what it is.

 

[MRU]

Maybe a lot of the third parties are waiting until the paid online infrastructure is in place before they release their games for the Switch? Shouldn't make a difference but who the hell knows.

I do wonder if Nintendo have been as vague with third party developers about timeframes and plans / trajectory.

 

[hawkeye_a]

Thankfully my enjoyment of a game is not dictated by its sales numbers though.

Same here. I thoroughly enjoyed the GameCube and the Wii. I got my first Mac when Apple's future was shaky at best, and i got an iPhone when it has <1% market share. The number of other people who buy or do not buy a product has almost no effect on how much I end up liking a product when I own it.

EDIT>>This bodes well with the fact that i'm a 'single player gamer', as i'm sure marketshare would matter to those folks who are into multi-player gaming.

 

[MRU]

Same here. I thoroughly enjoyed the GameCube and the Wii. I got my first Mac when Apple's future was shaky at best, and i got an iPhone when it has <1% market share. The number of other people who buy or do not buy a product has almost no effect on how much I end up liking a product when I own it.

Indeed - I've been a mac user for over 20 years, myself so can well attest to the time my mac was a rare commodity (especially in very rural south west Ireland) and yet now are more or less available readily

 

[GeekishlyGreek]

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/02/nintendo-switch-retail-boxes-are-an-ocean-of-wasted-space/

I really like the boxart. it might sound insane today but i like having the physical tangible product.

Those Switch cartridges are tiny, I got one of those 3ds cartridge cases off Amazon ($10) which holds 18 game carts, so carrying them around is no hassle.

Regarding gamesaves....wouldn't the mSD card make more sense? If you get a new unit, just take the mSD card with you. (wish the same could be said of VC/DLC content ).

PS>> Kinda sad that there isn't a manual in the case

I know what you mean about the box-art. This is why even for games that I buy digital later, I like to still get the cartridge versions aswell. (I only do this for my favorite games, so Zelda is a must) It's also why even though I bought breath of the wild for the WiiU, I didn't cancel it for the Switch, even though I'll probably only play the Switch version. (the box art on the tow versions I bought are actually different, as the limited edition pack uses the image as the USA version, while the WiiU version I bought uses the blue box art images of EU version). So it's kinda nice to have both.

 

[Aneres11]

I appreciate optimism, but my own acquaintances in the dev community have told me that the general reaction behind closed doors, at least to parity development (that means releasing non-port games at the same time as competing consoles) has been less like Alain Corre and more like Mohammad Alavi. Which is to say that it's not going to happen, even if its a Wii-type runaway success (recall that the Wii got rubbish third-party support outside of party games and shovelware, despite selling 101m consoles). If the business is there, they'll release custom builds six to eight months afterward, and that will be for broad appeal games like sports, nothing a niche as a big-budget JRPG (like FFXV or VII remake) or survival horror. Of course, you can and should take that with a grain of salt, but it is what it is.

Well from what has been said so far by devs (that I've read) is that the Switch is one of the easiest systems to port games over to.

The Wii U took 13-15 or so 'man hours' to port across to whereas the Switch is more like 4. Doesn't mean anything to me, but apparently it's something a couple have confirmed.

Surely this bodes well? I mean games are obviously not going to look as good as they do on a PS4 but I'd take a graphical hit if it meant having some of these games mentioned on there. The ability to play them on the go more than makes up for that.

Plus, werent Nintendo basically convinced to have 4GB of RAM in the console to allow games to run better instead of the 2 or 3 they'd originally planned?

Sorry if my info is off, I don't have an official source as it's all things I've been reading over the last couple of weeks but these were the snippets of info giving me hope we'd see a better third party presence on Switch.

 

[Jovian9]

Obviously it's going to do well at release.

After release it needs to keep it's momentum going. Maybe with an MK8 bundle or a Splatoon 2 bundle. But during that time and at E3 they really need to get some big announcements in (VC, Europe, 3rd party big hitters) so that when the holidays get here people are talking about Switch as much as Xbox Scorpio (and PS4 just had their slim/pro/VR holiday so I doubt they have anything big for holiday 2017). If they can keep momentum from release through the holidays I think Nintendo will be in good shape with the Switch. If they botch this timeframe in any way, it will probably be a let-down sales wise. Though I believe that it will greatly outsell the Wii U regardless.


IMO

 

[JohnGrey]

Well from what has been said so far by devs (that I've read) is that the Switch is one of the easiest systems to port games over to.

The Wii U took 13-15 or so 'man hours' to port across to whereas the Switch is more like 4. Doesn't mean anything to me, but apparently it's something a couple have confirmed.

Surely this bodes well? I mean games are obviously not going to look as good as they do on a PS4 but I'd take a graphical hit if it meant having some of these games mentioned on there. The ability to play them on the go more than makes up for that.

Plus, werent Nintendo basically convinced to have 4GB of RAM in the console to allow games to run better instead of the 2 or 3 they'd originally planned?

Sorry if my info is off, I don't have an official source as it's all things I've been reading over the last couple of weeks but these were the snippets of info giving me hope we'd see a better third party presence on Switch.

No, you're wrong, though that isn't exactly your fault. Nintendo has definitely improved its development standing in the sense that they have a better toolset and a far cheaper SDK than they did for the last generation, but look at everything that is getting ported immediately. It's all last generation games and they take significant graphical downgrades; that may not be a concern for you but it definitely is for others. The only current generation port that it's getting from the non-indie dev, at least that I'm aware of, is FIFA '18, and I've already heard, and seen corroboration in print, that it is one more staggered release some six to eight months following its release on PS4/XB1, and the need for that is optimisation for the Switch's decreased fidelity ceiling.

As for the memory, yes the Switch has 4GB of memory (that's pooled, in reality only 3.25GB will be available for applications, with the rest for the OS and related system processes) but that's half of the PS4's 8GB and has a bandwidth nearly 90% slower (25.6GB/s versus 218GB/s), and only has three of the four cores available for use by games. You have to understand that it's not the 80s and 90s any longer, and coders aren't taught to be rigorous about utilising system resources. The expectation is that the platforms for which you are being told to develop have sufficient overhead, that is to say near hardware parity, to make the development cost effective. When you're making SnipperClips or Binding of Isaac, that's not an issue. When you're developing FFXV or RE7, it's vitally important because you're dealing with proprietary engines that are designed to take advantage of broad resources, not free-to-use engines like Unity and UE4 that have lightweight or mobile versions that have prebuilt optimisations for lower-power hardware. That means that something made in UE4 mobile could, theoretically be ported to the Switch with relative ease, but it then comes down to whether those experiences would translate to solid sales for what is ostensibly a handheld.

 

[hawkeye_a]

Hmmmmm...........
I have a GameCube and a Wii... with all the games I've ever owned on said systems....so why should the Switch not having VC at launch(or ever for that matter), matter to me....

 

[JohnGrey]

Hmmmmm...........
I have a GameCube and a Wii... with all the games I've ever owned on said systems....so why should the Switch not having VC at launch(or ever for that matter), matter to me....

The fact that you ask that calls the entire purpose of the Switch into question: having the ability to play Nintendo games, and whatever gets ported to it, on the go and also play it on your screen at home. If they aren't worth it for games that you already love, and games that it's currently difficult to play without a CRT on a wonky video setup, why would it be worth it for games that you aren't certain about?

Personally, I'm in agreement, but then I didn't pre-order the system.

 

[hawkeye_a]

The 'on-the-go' factor of the Switch doesn't really interest me all that much. I'm primarily looking at the Switch as a home console, so in theory, it could serve it's purpose for Switch only titles.

It's not like i'll be getting rid of my Wii and Wii/GCN/VC titles (or re buying them on the Switch for that matter).

But I was hoping to play a few old GCN games(Luigi's Mansion, SMS)...which means i'll have to look for the GCN disc instead. :/

 

[MRU]

Fast Racing RMX will be available on the e-shop on launch day. I'll be purchasing that, fast racing Neo was a great game.

Also Shovel Knight will be available launch day now too.

Another purchase for me.

 

[JohnGrey]

I truly wish that Nintendo would work to get more system sellers out for the launch period. Shovel Knight has been on every bloody device and Fast Racing RMX follows Fast Racing Neo, which had about 30k total sales on the Wii U. Similar games, like Redout, struggle to even break 100k even on a platform like Steam.

 

[akuma13]

Sold on the Switch, sold on Zelda, sold on I Am Setsuna, Shovel Knight and Fast RMX since i've never played them and they look great. Being able to play this portably and play for hours with an external battery? SOLD! Nintendo released the perfect system for me and i'm so hyped for when the 3rd arrives!

 

[GeekishlyGreek]

Thankfully my enjoyment of a game is not dictated by its sales numbers though.

I loved Windwaker on GameCube and yet it sold very poorly. The recent Deus Ex - Mankind Divided is for me a great sci-fi game and I'm loving my play through, and yet it has sold so poorly that the Deus Ex franchise has now been put out to pasture for the time being.

Likewise games like COD and Battlefield sell huge amounts of copies and even the latest COD : Infinite Warfare despite its middling reviews and general 'meh' user reception was in fact the biggest selling game of 2016... Yet I have never enjoyed those games.

So simply put, the sales numbers of a title are not indicative of my enjoyment or what will govern my own purchases. So inspite of Zelda's sales figures, good bad or indifferent, I am sure I will enjoy BOTW and others will too (be it on Wii U or Switch) and its potential sales numbers or lack of, do not detract for one second from my looking forward to that titles release.

Well said! If I was a stockbroker or investor I might be more concerned about sales, and if I were a numbers fanatic I'd probably more concerned about which console has the bigger hardware specs. But as a gamer, what matters to me most is how enjoyable the games are to play. (So I'm really not bothered in the slightest about any of the former two things that I often see people complain about). I'm sure there will be many that will not agree with me, but for me personally, I would probably even go as far as saying that so long as Nintendo still keep making Zelda games, I would still continue to buy Nintendo consoles just for that experience alone, even if they made nothing else!! (everything else for me is just bonus, and I still buy a hell of alot of other games on them too! -Many of them alot of fun, and still love to bits!) So while there will always be niggles about things Nintendo do, they're still by far my favorite vidoegame maker in terms of how much fun they are to play! (and so long as they don't let me down on the game experiences themselves, I'll always be kept happy!)

 

[hawkeye_a]

P/Reviews are starting to trickle in. Mostly positive, but multiple sources are mentioning that there's an issue regarding the connection between the joy-con(s) and the console in some circumstances (line of sight, etc).

I'm happy to hear that the system boots up really quick, and that the OS seems really light weight. One small criticism (which can be addressed in an update at a later point) is that the OS seems too 'vanilla'.... no Nintendo personality/flair.

Cheers

PS>>I am *really* happy that they moved back to carts. Extremely fast loading and no installation is part of what console gaming is about, as opposed to PCs.

 

[MRU]

^ the Bluetooth issue is seemingly because they are using really low powered frequency which means distance is limited and more Susceptible to interference from everyday objects including your own body. The only fix would be to increase the Bluetooth power via firmware but this will invariably reduce the battery life of the joycons, but better that than the current desync issue.

The question is ... will they have this fix ready for launch day ?

 

[JohnGrey]

It seems as though there will be no connectivity with other Bluetooth devices, including headsets. Have fun voice chatting in console mode.

 

[the8thark]

^ it's clear initially nothing will carry over. It's whether in the future they can retroactively do it.

I'm not pushed about VC, it has never been a main selling point for any new console that buy personally, but I could understand others being disappointed.

Nintendo are being too quiet and vague on so much of the switch such as online accounts not having real timeframes for Europe except vague 2018 date for its implementation ... it does make you wonder what's going on at Nintendo HQ with the switch. It feels like for such an established company they are just 'winging' it ....

It won't affect pre-orders. It's not coincidence this info comes out exactly as the embargoes are lifting on the unboxing and official hands on impressions will be allowed from the game channels on YouTube ...

You might be right about nothing carrying over but Nintendo should say this. We ate getting the indie Nintendo direct next week. But that's not an explanation of what is and isn't carrying over and an explanation about the VC on the Switch.

I do get the feeling the VC will be handled differently on the Switch so it's not ready to be shared with us yet. Either way Nintendo should speak up about it. Even saying "there's no news" is better than silence. Are they winging it or is this all planned? We don't know. Not knowing is the issue. The fact that some people think Nintendo is winging it is bad PR. Whether Nintendo are winging it or not, this bad PR should never have heppened if they actually spoke up.
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^ the Bluetooth issue is seemingly because they are using really low powered frequency which means distance is limited and more Susceptible to interference from everyday objects including your own body. The only fix would be to increase the Bluetooth power via firmware but this will invariably reduce the battery life of the joycons, but better that than the current desync issue.

The question is ... will they have this fix ready for launch day ?

Considering the joycons have like 20 hours? battery life, I think sacrificing a little of that for a better bluetooth signal is a good trade off. There is a day 1 patch for the Switch. Will this fix the issue? No one knows.
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It seems as though there will be no connectivity with other Bluetooth devices, including headsets. Have fun voice chatting in console mode.

Only an issue if you don't own a smartphone.