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I don't think it's cannibalizing sales, per se, that companies don't want a Mac Mini to supersede, exceed, pass, win, champion, beat, knock out, replace, succeed over, say, an iMac.

Companies aren't afraid that people will buy more Mac Minis over iMacs; or, more Honda Civics over Honda Accords; or, say, more Porsche Cayman S's over Porsche 911 Carreras because they fear of losing profit or something.

There are what's called "Profit Margin." And, it doesn't go any higher or lower by how much the product cost. The margin stays relatively the same. So, the profit margin for a Mac Mini is the same as an iMac... relatively-speaking.

And, then there are volume sales. Sales in volume is probably the reason why Mac Mini's don't get the attention it deserves. No one is buying Mac Mini's in volumes. Only John, Jane, Bob and some people here in Macrumors. And, by volume, it isn't just, 100 iMacs this year. But, another 100 iMacs in the next year or two when they are updated.

If, there was enough commitment and bulk sales of Mac Mini's we'd see Mac Mini refreshes every time Intel had a new Tick in their Tock or whatever.

5 people in the forums of Macrumors and another 2 people in forums of RumorsofMacs and another 5 people over there at InsiderMac forums isn't enough for Apple to be like... "Okay. We'll refresh the Mac Mini too and be on par with our new 2016 MBP's... save the gorgeous wide-gamut retina display."

It's the same reason, I think, that Porsche doesn't offer, like, a Porsche Cayman 4S, or a Porsche Cayman with All-Wheel Drive, like, its bigger brother, the Porsche 911 C4S. Porsche is afraid (not of losing money) that the "image" that they built with the Carreras from the very beginning that Porsche became a company will be overtaken by a millennial little Porsche.

In the same way, if Apple offers Mac Mini's in the same league as iMacs or MBP's... Apple is afraid that a little silver nondescript looking box will become their "image," if every one buys it, instead of, say, an iMac, or a MBP.

You won't see iMacs in movies anymore because movies do try to depict "reality" when its convenient for it. So, we'll see Mac mini's in movies, which is not as bold or visually standout-ish as an iMac. And, other sources or word of mouths... slowly, people who would have bought iMacs will just replace them with Mac Mini's. And, then, that "image" or free "advertising" will be lost.

And, advertising is really where these companies wanna create their "image;" their "brain-washing;" their "magic."

Without say a Carrera anymore in people's garages, or iMacs on people's desks, these companies will have to re-brainwash everyone, which is something they'd like to avoid.

Hope that was clear.

Happy Sunday everyone!
 
After reading this about Apple's Mac line -- why not introduce a 2017 Mac Mini and bump the price by 20%?

Another indication of just how well things are going for Apple is the Mac business. Its unit sales grew by a tiny 1% year-over-year, which might be seen as condemnation of Apple’s MacBook Pro port strategy. However, Mac revenue increased more robustly quarter-over-quarter, resulting in a 26% Mac revenue bump.
 
After reading this about Apple's Mac line -- why not introduce a 2017 Mac Mini and bump the price by 20%?

Another indication of just how well things are going for Apple is the Mac business. Its unit sales grew by a tiny 1% year-over-year, which might be seen as condemnation of Apple’s MacBook Pro port strategy. However, Mac revenue increased more robustly quarter-over-quarter, resulting in a 26% Mac revenue bump.

:) All this indicates is that Apple was able to hide its slowly failing Mac sales by strategically introducing one single new Mac laptop in the last quarter. Without that 26% final-quarter bump that the MBP provided, Mac sales would have been negative year-over-year.

They did this by trying to push all sorts of glitzy stuff onto the MBP -- the touch bar, thinner design, some hand-waving about how it can connect to large external monitors. Stuff that, in the past, they could count on to get people who like the glitzy stuff to make a purchase.

But my guess is that this MBP is going to have a much shorter lifespan than previous ones; this is a device designed to please the eyes, not meant to get work done. I doubt people are going to enjoy shelling out the big bucks for the relatively small performance this device provides.

So yeah, Apple might want to rush out another glitzy item to try and induce a short-term boost in sales. But how would that apply to the Mini? Make the case more appealing to the eyes? Give it its own integrated touch-screen? They can't give it any increase in computing power, as that would make it competitive with the iMac, which is verboten...
 
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So yeah, Apple might want to rush out another glitzy item to try and induce a short-term boost in sales. But how would that apply to the Mini? Make the case more appealing to the eyes? Give it its own integrated touch-screen? They can't give it any increase in computing power, as that would make it competitive with the iMac, which is verboten...

That's easy - they'll make it thinner and remove half of the ports. And bump the price.
 
It makes me sad because I'll admit I'm not affluent enough to buy most of the Apple computers on the market. I was hoping they'd consider releasing a new Mac Mini to appeal to casual/light users who just can't afford over 1k+.

I really want to experience a Mac. I do. With what I use my 5 year old Windows laptop for, it wouldn't need the best specs. I just want to learn the OS.

I've experienced iOS, Android, Windows mobile, BlackBerry OS10, Symbian, Tizen, Web OS, and I've run Windows, Linux (Wine and Ubuntu). I'm just missing the Mac OS experience.

Edit: I'd consider a Hackintosh or even an older computer I could hardware swap. It just seems hard to find affordable options without me taking a big gamble.

I know it's a bitter pill to swallow paying current prices for old tech but the 2014 mini is absolutely powerful enough for what you want. Even the base model if you upgrade the ram to 8GB. you can swap the hard drive for a SSD if you are up for a bit of work.
 
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I don't think it's cannibalizing sales, per se, that companies don't want a Mac Mini to supersede, exceed, pass, win, champion, beat, knock out, replace, succeed over, say, an iMac.

Companies aren't afraid that people will buy more Mac Minis over iMacs; or, more Honda Civics over Honda Accords; or, say, more Porsche Cayman S's over Porsche 911 Carreras because they fear of losing profit or something.

There are what's called "Profit Margin." And, it doesn't go any higher or lower by how much the product cost. The margin stays relatively the same. So, the profit margin for a Mac Mini is the same as an iMac... relatively-speaking.
I would have to disagree. If this were true, Apple wouldn't have glued in all their parts - their only design change to the Mac Mini, the last time. Apple slots their machines, and does their damdest to prevent one Mac from busting out of their slot. That is why they dropped dGPUs from the Mac Mini - Can't let it get anywhere close to an iMac/MBP in performance. That is why, when they did have a dGPU in the mini, it shipped with 1/2 the amount of BARE MINIMUM vRAM as anything else in the Mac lineup, and in the industry - Can't have it taking sales away from iMac/MBP. When Apple saw the power the quad core Mac mini had, and the unique ways the mini was being used, they saw fit to remove the quad core option - so as not to lose sales to the iMac/MBP and in this case, the lower end Mac Pro. And while removing the quad core, they also went and glued/solders all the innards(while not making the form factor smaller), so that the mini couldn't be easily upgrade and blow past the iMac/MBP as far as market price upgrades compared to the glued in iMac/MBP.

Every move and design choice they have made, is to put a brick wall between it and the higher end offerings. If that is not a fear of cannibalization, I don't know what is.
 
I know it's a bitter pill to swallow paying current prices for old tech but the 2014 mini is absolutely powerful enough for what you want. Even the base model if you upgrade the ram to 8GB. you can swap the hard drive for a SSD if you are up for a bit of work.

Makes me glad my 2011 mini can still pull its weight. And I bought it used to begin with. ;)
 
I would have to disagree. If this were true, Apple wouldn't have glued in all their parts - their only design change to the Mac Mini, the last time. Apple slots their machines, and does their damdest to prevent one Mac from busting out of their slot. That is why they dropped dGPUs from the Mac Mini - Can't let it get anywhere close to an iMac/MBP in performance. That is why, when they did have a dGPU in the mini, it shipped with 1/2 the amount of BARE MINIMUM vRAM as anything else in the Mac lineup, and in the industry - Can't have it taking sales away from iMac/MBP. When Apple saw the power the quad core Mac mini had, and the unique ways the mini was being used, they saw fit to remove the quad core option - so as not to lose sales to the iMac/MBP and in this case, the lower end Mac Pro. And while removing the quad core, they also went and glued/solders all the innards(while not making the form factor smaller), so that the mini couldn't be easily upgrade and blow past the iMac/MBP as far as market price upgrades compared to the glued in iMac/MBP.

In my own case, I'm getting tired of having to dump a perfectly fine monitor every time I need to upgrade to a new iMac. The Pro is more than I need (cough * can afford * cough), but the crippled Mini is less. So, when I buy a new Mac it will be another iMac. I have a 2011 Mini that I use as a server, and when I bought it I was hoping for a nice capabilities bump in the next Mini upgrade that I could get to replace my aging iMac. Nope - dumb it down and glue/solder it shut. Apple is definitely a marketing/profit driven company these days, much less so a "what's good for our customers, and thereby our future" company.
 
In my own case, I'm getting tired of having to dump a perfectly fine monitor every time I need to upgrade to a new iMac. The Pro is more than I need (cough * can afford * cough), but the crippled Mini is less. So, when I buy a new Mac it will be another iMac. I have a 2011 Mini that I use as a server, and when I bought it I was hoping for a nice capabilities bump in the next Mini upgrade that I could get to replace my aging iMac. Nope - dumb it down and glue/solder it shut. Apple is definitely a marketing/profit driven company these days, much less so a "what's good for our customers, and thereby our future" company.
I am replacing two iMacs this year. They will not be with another iMac, only a Mac Mini - if it meets my set of requirements. I HIGHLY doubt it will, so I am looking at taking steps in exiting the Mac environment since coming back in 1998. I previously left Apple during '88-'98.

The difference is that this time, I'll be taking my family, extended family, and several friends along with me, when their turn to upgrade comes along.

Hope Tim is happy with the results of his ignoring the Mac, I know I am not.
 
Secondly, half of a 4k iMac is $550 (US).

Just wanted to check the math on this. The base level 21.5" iMac is, indeed, $1,100.

But it's not Retina.

To get the retina it will cost you $1,499.

However, that doesn't come with an SSD.

So to get a Retina screen and a 256GB SSD, you have to spend $1700.

Instead, I very reluctantly bought a reburb 2014 Mini with an SSD and hooked it up to a Dell 4k monitor. Yes, it's a 30hz refresh rate - no good for gamers, but doesn't bother me at all. And the total cost was $1,125.

If they ever release a new Mini, I'll swap it in. If not, I might try Windows or Linux (been a Mac user and only a Mac user for over 30 years).
 
Just wanted to check the math on this. The base level 21.5" iMac is, indeed, $1,100.

But it's not Retina.

To get the retina it will cost you $1,499.

However, that doesn't come with an SSD.

So to get a Retina screen and a 256GB SSD, you have to spend $1700.

Instead, I very reluctantly bought a reburb 2014 Mini with an SSD and hooked it up to a Dell 4k monitor. Yes, it's a 30hz refresh rate - no good for gamers, but doesn't bother me at all. And the total cost was $1,125.

If they ever release a new Mini, I'll swap it in. If not, I might try Windows or Linux (been a Mac user and only a Mac user for over 30 years).

I agree, except for the 30hz part. I would find that unwatchable for any reason. I bet when you do make the move to 60 or better, you will notice the difference.
 
I agree, except for the 30hz part. I would find that unwatchable for any reason. I bet when you do make the move to 60 or better, you will notice the difference.

Oh yes, I won't pretend that the 30hz isn't noticeable; it is. And I would certainly prefer 60. But for now I will take 30 over buying the new iMac. And it's really only noticeable when moving the mouse - video plays fine and text and images are perfect.

But it's ridiculous that buying in 2017 I wasn't able to choose a mini that would do 4K at 60hz - even the new MacBook will do this!
 
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Apple has about 2 more months to update the mini to something modern or I will be building my own. I'm tired of waiting and I won't buy an iMac because I need to use my monitor for multiple devices.

I can make a computer equally as powerful as the 5K iMac for under $1000 (obviously it won't look as nice and my display pales in comparison but what I want is a powerful computer more than a pretty one).
 
My Mini will do fine for this year, if there is no update by the end of it then I will need to start looking at Linux I think. Windows has come on leaps and bounds, so has the hardware such as the Surface Pro however I still don't want it.

I just don't want to give up my two monitors :)

Not even sure how many units of the mini sell each year, but it seems a shame to abandon the line. I am probably in the minority who know more people that own Mini than iMac.
 
Just wanted to check the math on this. The base level 21.5" iMac is, indeed, $1,100.

But it's not Retina.

To get the retina it will cost you $1,499.

However, that doesn't come with an SSD.

So to get a Retina screen and a 256GB SSD, you have to spend $1700.

Instead, I very reluctantly bought a reburb 2014 Mini with an SSD and hooked it up to a Dell 4k monitor. Yes, it's a 30hz refresh rate - no good for gamers, but doesn't bother me at all. And the total cost was $1,125.

If they ever release a new Mini, I'll swap it in. If not, I might try Windows or Linux (been a Mac user and only a Mac user for over 30 years).

I'm sorry it's been a while since I posted but I'm not following your logic?

I believe my point was to illustrate the reason I felt the Mini wasn't designed to push iMac sales. And you didn't buy an iMac so aren't you essentially a prime example of my point?

I didn't realize there was a difference between the retina and non retina, thank you for pointing that out to me. But I don't follow the point of telling us your Dell monitor, does it have a P3 color gamut? Isn't it a compromise in quality even compared to the non retina iMac (30hz vs 60hz)?
 
I'm sorry it's been a while since I posted but I'm not following your logic?

I believe my point was to illustrate the reason I felt the Mini wasn't designed to push iMac sales. And you didn't buy an iMac so aren't you essentially a prime example of my point?

I didn't realize there was a difference between the retina and non retina, thank you for pointing that out to me. But I don't follow the point of telling us your Dell monitor, does it have a P3 color gamut? Isn't it a compromise in quality even compared to the non retina iMac (30hz vs 60hz)?

1. I'm not an expert on color and monitors, but I've owned high end 1080p IPS monitors, and I correctly own a 5k iMac. The Dell monitor, according to this review, has a color gamut much wider than sRGB. The color quality to my eyes seems outstanding, and with the matte display I think I like the color reproduction better than on the 5K iMac.

So for me, no way on earth I'd take a standard iMac 1080p display over this Dell 4K.

That's not to deny that 30hz is a compromise; it totally is! :)

2. I wasn't really weighing in on the debate about WHY apple is cannibalizing sales. I just wanted to correct the basic math.
  • EightyTwenty said that a Mac Mini with updated graphics plus a 4k monitor would cost half of a 4k iMac.
  • You replied that half of an iMac was $550, so no way one could get a mini plus 4k monitor for that.
  • I think the truth lies somewhere between EightyTwenty's "half" and the math you presented which made the retina iMac seem cheaper than it is. You can currently get a mini plus 4k monitor for under $1200, and it will cost you $1700 to get a similar iMac. So the Mini+4k setup is about 65–70% the cost of an equivalent iMac
3. The 2016 MacBook can run the new LG 4k display at 60hz, so the bottom line is that it's ridiculous that you can't buy a mini today with better graphics. I think we all agree on that. The 2016 MacBook is available as a refurb for $1,099; if apple would take away the keyboard, trackpad, and display and cut price down to $750, I'd buy that to swap out my current mini.
 
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1. I'm not an expert on color and monitors, but I've owned high end 1080p IPS monitors, and I correctly own a 5k iMac. The Dell monitor, according to this review, has a color gamut much wider than sRGB. The color quality to my eyes seems outstanding, and with the matte display I think I like the color reproduction better than on the 5K iMac.

So for me, no way on earth I'd take a standard iMac 1080p display over this Dell 4K.

That's not to deny that 30hz is a compromise; it totally is! :)

2. I wasn't really weighing in on the debate about WHY apple is cannibalizing sales. I just wanted to correct the basic math.
  • EightyTwenty said that a Mac Mini with updated graphics plus a 4k monitor would cost half of a 4k iMac.
  • You replied that half of an iMac was $550, so no way one could get a mini plus 4k monitor for that.
  • I think the truth lies somewhere between EightyTwenty's "half" and the math you presented which made the retina iMac seem cheaper than it is. You can currently get a mini plus 4k monitor for under $1200, and it will cost you $1700 to get a similar iMac. So the Mini+4k setup is about 65–70% the cost of an equivalent iMac
3. The 2016 MacBook can run the new LG 4k display at 60hz, so the bottom line is that it's ridiculous that you can't buy a mini today with better graphics. I think we all agree on that. The 2016 MacBook is available as a refurb for $1,099; if apple would take away the keyboard, trackpad, and display and cut price down to $750, I'd buy that to swap out my current mini.

They are idiots that they have not done precisely that.
 
  • EightyTwenty said that a Mac Mini with updated graphics plus a 4k monitor would cost half of a 4k iMac.
  • You replied that half of an iMac was $550, so no way one could get a mini plus 4k monitor for that.
  • I think the truth lies somewhere between EightyTwenty's "half" and the math you presented which made the retina iMac seem cheaper than it is. You can currently get a mini plus 4k monitor for under $1200, and it will cost you $1700 to get a similar iMac. So the Mini+4k setup is about 65–70% the cost of an equivalent iMac

It doesn't matter either way. You are now the one discounting the Retina. So 550 (half stand iMac) for a mini + standard 4k monitor is nearly impossible. Or 850 (half Retina iMac) for a mini + 4k DCI P3 monitor, also nearly impossible....maybe even more so.

Unless we stop comparing like for like of course. Then in that case yes, you can get less for less money, kind of goes without saying.

Buying used of course could get you kind of close but then we should also start looking for used/refurb iMacs too.
 
Can someone tape this mock up I made to Tim Cook's forehead? I've owned every generation of mini since they were first released - would really like Apple to show some love!

Untitled_1.jpg

Oh I hate you so much. My gold Mac mini is in the same limbo as my gold rMBP.
 
It doesn't matter either way. You are now the one discounting the Retina. So 550 (half stand iMac) for a mini + standard 4k monitor is nearly impossible. Or 850 (half Retina iMac) for a mini + 4k DCI P3 monitor, also nearly impossible....maybe even more so.

Unless we stop comparing like for like of course. Then in that case yes, you can get less for less money, kind of goes without saying.

Buying used of course could get you kind of close but then we should also start looking for used/refurb iMacs too.

I already addressed this on the previous page.

Retina iMac: $1,800 CDN.

Mac Mini $599 CDN
4K monitor $300 CDN
Total: $899 CDN (half price)
 
I really wish but I feel Apple is moving into the segment of portable devices only. If they do release a Mini, it'll likely only have sporadic releases with years between them.

I might not mind that; finally reached the age where I'm willing to get a Mini and use it with a decent sized display. For decades I've been insisting on having my stuff follow me around on laptops. Now my computer use includes more time spent on vidoeo entertainment and it would be fun having a bigger display for a change. Keeping my 2012 laptop bought as Apple refurb still under applecare until next year, I don't see the point of a full desktop machine, already have wireless keyboards and mice, don't think I'd need regular upgrades of the Mini for my purposes. Just waiting for a new model of Mini to emerge. Maybe I should even settle for the old one, it still has all those old standard-issue ports and a headphone jack so what more could I want. :rolleyes:
 
I already addressed this on the previous page.

Retina iMac: $1,800 CDN.

Mac Mini $599 CDN
4K monitor $300 CDN
Total: $899 CDN (half price)

Sorry I'm on mobile with a bad connection (surfing is tough). My point was a 300 dollar (don't know your conversion rate) is not a 4K dci p3 monitor. So why compare it to an iMac with that? How much is the cheapest non retina iMac up north?
 
Given Apple is moving away from the display business, wondering what will become of the iMac.

Maybe more wishful than realistic, what about a line of desktops sharing the same basic design, such as a Mini, Mid, Large cylinder form factor ala Mac Pro. The Mini would morph into the smallest cylinder and might be fixed components other than HDD (much as it pains me). Next, the mid-range iMac replacement with perhaps some upgradability. Finally, Mac Pro with nearly all components upgradeable (to attempt to win back the high end graphics users who are disappointed with the current Pro.

Without a built in display, mid range would be more affordable and a good choice for the current Mini fans looking for a bit more horsepower. Plus, it would present a consistent branding to the market for the desktop line.

Alternately, use the basic shape of ATV\Airport and scale it to 3 sizes for the desktop lineup.
 
Sorry I'm on mobile with a bad connection (surfing is tough). My point was a 300 dollar (don't know your conversion rate) is not a 4K dci p3 monitor. So why compare it to an iMac with that? How much is the cheapest non retina iMac up north?

I'm comparing because the theory is that Apple is holding back a new Mac Mini because it would allow for a 4K macOS experience at roughly half the price of the 4k iMac. I don't think people are too picky about "dci p3". As long as the monitor is 4k, most people are happy.

I now think the Mac Mini is a dead product at this point, so this is all irrelevant.
 
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