The Real Reason There is No New Mini

[cynics]

I'm comparing because the theory is that Apple is holding back a new Mac Mini because it would allow for a 4K macOS experience at roughly half the price of the 4k iMac. I don't think people are too picky about "dci p3". As long as the monitor is 4k, most people are happy.

I now think the Mac Mini is a dead product at this point, so this is all irrelevant.

Ok I got you. Just my point was and still remains if you don't care about dci p3 then you don't care about retina either albeit apples marketing is strong. It's illustrated in our conversation, no one cares about p3 but they do care about retina.....

I'm not sure the Mini is dead I think when they release the new line of iMacs we will know for sure. Either it won't be there or it will be gimped again i.e. dead. Or maybe redesigned, upgraded and improved. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the latter.

My fear is apples thinking of "you want to use your own monitor then dock a MacBook or if that's not powerful enough get a Mac Pro". Which makes sense from a business perspective assuming you discount people leaving for PCs of course.

 

[oldtime]

Very simple. Apple doesn't want to cannibalize sales of the retina iMac.

Any updated mini will allow for 4k @ 60hz because of Intel's Skylake CPUs and Apple doesn't want people buying a Mac Mini + 4k display at literally HALF the price of the 4K iMac.

I truly believe this is the bottom line.

Am I crazy to think that the majority of people buying an iMac do so because a) it's an all-in-one (simplicity), and b) it's a huge, sleek, gorgeous monitor with a big ol' Apple logo on it. The MM will never match those aspects of the iMac, and thus will never significantly cannibalize its sales (IMO).

 

[jasnw]

Am I crazy to think that the majority of people buying an iMac do so because a) it's an all-in-one (simplicity), and b) it's a huge, sleek, gorgeous monitor with a big ol' Apple logo on it. The MM will never match those aspects of the iMac, and thus will never significantly cannibalize its sales (IMO).

It will cannibalize at least some sales. I don't really care how gorgeous the computer is, I want the best tech I can get for the best price point. If there's a good Mac Mini in our future the replacement for my 2011 27" iMac will be a Mini with a good third-party monitor. I have no idea how many people are thinking similarly, so I can't hypothesize how "significant" this might be. For Apple beancounters ANY reduction in sales might be considered significant.

 

[oldtime]

It will cannibalize at least some sales. I don't really care how gorgeous the computer is, I want the best tech I can get for the best price point. If there's a good Mac Mini in our future the replacement for my 2011 27" iMac will be a Mini with a good third-party monitor. I have no idea how many people are thinking similarly, so I can't hypothesize how "significant" this might be. For Apple beancounters ANY reduction in sales might be considered significant.

There's also quite a few people out there who have, say, a $700 or lower budget for a desktop (I fall into this group, as my needs do not require a computer more expensive/powerful than what $500-700 can buy) that no Mac but the MM can satisfy. Those people are either not buying a new computer at all (waiting for a new Mini to come) or turning to PC. I have a feeling this number is greater than the number of potential cannibals, but who can say for sure.

Anyway, Apple has always been good at crippling the Mini just enough so that it doesn't dominate their desktop sales. Even if the iMac costs 2-3x as much, it only really needs to be ~30-50% more powerful than the Mini to represent a separate tier that justifies its expense for the majority of potential buyers.

 

[Synchro3]

Am I crazy to think that the majority of people buying an iMac do so because a) it's an all-in-one (simplicity), and b) it's a huge, sleek, gorgeous monitor with a big ol' Apple logo on it. The MM will never match those aspects of the iMac, and thus will never significantly cannibalize its sales (IMO).

Yes, a gorgeous monitor with a weak GPU...

 

[dandeco]

Yes, a gorgeous monitor with a weak GPU...

Yes, if it's the 21-inch iMac. But the 27-inch Retina iMac is a great-looking machine, and it has pretty powerful discrete graphics. We plan to get them for my college's video-editing lab to replace the early 2009 24" iMacs they already have (we're aiming for the mid-range 27" model with a 1 TB fusion drive and AMD Radeon R9 M390 graphics.) The way I see it, the 27" Retina iMac seems to be designed for professionals or power users. It could very well be the iMac Pro! (And another thing it has in common with the Mac Pro is that it's the only other Mac on the market currently that has user-serviceable RAM, unlike the 21" iMacs.)

 

[JGRE]

Very simple. Apple doesn't want to cannibalize sales of the retina iMac.

Any updated mini will allow for 4k @ 60hz because of Intel's Skylake CPUs and Apple doesn't want people buying a Mac Mini + 4k display at literally HALF the price of the 4K iMac.

I truly believe this is the bottom line.

Sad but true. Thank you Timmy!
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Good points.

There are also people like me.. like to throw my Mac mini into a backpack to take to a friend's house for the day and connect it to their television. I wouldn't want to have to do that with an iMac.

Bigger backpack and some workout?

 

[jpietrzak8]

Yes, if it's the 21-inch iMac. But the 27-inch Retina iMac is a great-looking machine, and it has pretty powerful discrete graphics.

Yes, it's got one of the most powerful discrete graphics cards available... for mobile devices, that is. Compared to actual desktop graphics cards, however, it is so-so...

 

[sublunar]

Good argument with the 4k at 60Hz thing.

This is why I think the Mini will remain dual core, and perhaps could be even lower power and stick with the 15w CPU in the base non touch bar Macbook Pro CPU because it has an Iris Graphics 540 GPU. However you slice it, an iMac remains quad core against a dual core Mac Mini.

To be considered a like-for-like comparison any 4k display purchased would have to be 4096x2304 with a DCI-P3 gamut, most will be 3840x2160 and 8-bit panel. As has been previously mentioned in this thread, many people won't care about that and just want a cheap Apple machine. Apple may prefer people to have a better "experience".

The desktop teams were roped in to help finish off the touch bar Macbook Pros last year meaning that the now delayed iMac update may end up being just a spec bump with USB-C. It's the 20th anniversary of the iMac next year and 8k 30" screens have been mooted by LG (currently $5k) for a future iMac - got to be an iMac Pro, yes?

What's more interesting is what happens to the iMac 21.5" range in the longer term. The Broadwell Iris Pro 6200 GPU has a direct upgrade to Skylake Iris Pro 580 but there's no equivalent in Kaby Lake and beyond as Intel scale back Iris Pro investment.

The 21.5" range is half way through a transition to Retina, and they could just go all-retina immediately with the Skylake Iris Pro 580 knowing that a 2018 iMac could have a form factor change to go along with the fact that a Kaby Lake/Coffee Lake CPU will have to be paired with a discrete GPU.

Going all retina is sure to increase prices all round but don't forget that the base model current 21.5" iMac sets a precedent for Apple potentially putting a lower power mobile CPU or T-series desktop into future iMacs perhaps to accommodate a GPU into the mix because Iris Pro is going away.

 

[Count Blah]

It will be sad to see the 2012 still kicking the $&@#% out of any new mini, even if it does get an "update"

 

[spacebro]

I'm still using a 2012 mac mini on my tv. I'll have to upgrade this computer to a pc if I want to upgrade my tv to 4k. Apple is losing loyal customers over this for no reason.

 

[jpietrzak8]

I'm still using a 2012 mac mini on my tv. I'll have to upgrade this computer to a pc if I want to upgrade my tv to 4k. Apple is losing loyal customers over this for no reason.

Actually, I was still using a 2007 Mini for light HTPC tasks until just recently; the Mini started having random errors, so I've replaced it. With a Linux box. Linux does surprisingly well at HTPC tasks! And it's wonderful being able once again to choose exactly the hardware I want for the purpose at hand, both in terms of being able to choose what processors and features I want to have, and not having to pay for hardware that I don't need...

 

[BeforeTheMeds]

I don't think soldered RAM has anything to do with the Mini.

2014 and last mini release has soldered ram. I have a 2012 which is not and I maxed it out.
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I'm still using a 2012 mac mini on my tv. I'll have to upgrade this computer to a pc if I want to upgrade my tv to 4k. Apple is losing loyal customers over this for no reason.

I have a 2012 and my next one will absolutely be windows.

 

[MH01]

The new mac mini is almost certainly coming.

People say that about he Mac Pro also......

 

[Miat]

Increasingly looks like a whole lot of Linux and Windows boxes coming instead.

Signed
Prospective Heretic

 

[cynics]

2014 and last mini release has soldered ram. I have a 2012 which is not and I maxed it out.
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I have a 2012 and my next one will absolutely be windows.

You are stating the obvious. Quoting a single sentence from a discussion between 2 users removes its context.

To clarify, soldered RAM does not "protect iMac sales" (the discussion you quoted) because the iMac (21") has soldered RAM also.

 

[BeforeTheMeds]

You are stating the obvious. Quoting a single sentence from a discussion between 2 users removes its context.

To clarify, soldered RAM does not "protect iMac sales" (the discussion you quoted) because the iMac (21") has soldered RAM also.

What context? The statement was that soldered ram does not have anything yo do with tbe mac mini. It absolutely does. It's not obvious to me you know what you are talking about.

Its not my problem if you didn't clarify it in the statement. I replied to the statement that was there.

 

[Kcetech1]

Yes, it's got one of the most powerful discrete graphics cards available... for mobile devices, that is. Compared to actual desktop graphics cards, however, it is so-so...

Even middle of the road on mobile devices, its running in the range of the Gf 1050m and even down from the older 970m.

the m395 is a source of irritation to me when I need GPU acceleration in some Autodesk applications and it lags far behind other AMD and Nvidia mobile GPU's ( in gaming as well as my kids keep reminding me)

 

[BeforeTheMeds]

Even middle of the road on mobile devices, its running in the range of the Gf 1050m and even down from the older 970m.

the m395 is a source of irritation to me when I need GPU acceleration in some Autodesk applications and it lags far behind other AMD and Nvidia mobile GPU's ( in gaming as well as my kids keep reminding me)

The m395x was released may 2015 so as you say it's a pretty middle of the road mobile gpu in the top imac.

http://gpuboss.com/gpus/Radeon-R9-M395X-vs-GeForce-GTX-1080

Gtx 1080 that was released a year later is in sager laptops, way ahead of the imac gpu's.

The "entry" level sager 15" lappy at 1119.00 has the gtx 1050 ti that even beats out the radeon in the imac.

• 15.6" FHD IPS Matte Screen
• Intel® Kabylake i7-7700HQ
• NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1050 Ti [4GB] w/Optimus™ Technology

http://www.game-debate.com/gpu/inde...force-gtx-1050m-ti-4gb-vs-radeon-r9-m395x-4gb

Not trying to start anything but its middle of the road at best for a top of the line imac.

 

[cynics]

What context? The statement was that soldered ram does not have anything yo do with tbe mac mini. It absolutely does. It's not obvious to me you know what you are talking about.

Its not my problem if you didn't clarify it in the statement. I replied to the statement that was there.

Really? I have a feeling I'm being trolled now. You just quoted the specific context.

You are the only person (on page 3) pointing this cherry picked sentence out because you are unwilling or unable to understand the context in which it was being used. Furthermore, even the cherry picked sentence doesn't make sense how you are using it, "I don't think soldered RAM has anything to do with the Mini." =/= The mini doesn't have soldered RAM, especially taken out of a quote where I'm saying its not the only device that has soldered RAM.

So yes, this is very much your problem.

Admittedly I could have worded that better but considering I was talking to the OP specifically I didn't feel the need. I just don't like adding "specifically" onto the end of sentences because it should be unnecessary.

But "I don't think soldered RAM has anything to do with the Mini specifically when it comes to pushing iMac sales". How is that?

 

[now i see it]

The Mac Mini is making everyone crazy

 

[kazmac]

Can someone tape this mock up I made to Tim Cook's forehead? I've owned every generation of mini since they were first released - would really like Apple to show some love!

Late to the party on this one, but you made me laugh when I dearly it needed it. The space gray is lovely (and so is the gold). In spite of my wandering away from Apple, I do hope they continue to update the Mac Mini.

 

[BeforeTheMeds]

Late to the party on this one, but you made me laugh when I dearly it needed it. The space gray is lovely (and so is the gold). In spite of my wandering away from Apple, I do hope they continue to update the Mac Mini.

I don't expect a decent upgrade if at all, but for those that stick with apple I hope for something.

 

[akash.nu]

Mac mini is still important in the development community. A lot of people use them as build servers.

 

[BayouTiger]

I actually think we have seen the last Mini in its familiar form. Apple has been taking no a lot of flack that rightfully should be directed at their primary supplier, Intel. Intel has not delivered a significant processor improvement in years and what they have delivered has been consistently late and underwhelming. After three years of use with my 2013 MBP 13, I made the switch to Windows and bought an XPS13. It actually offered nothing over my MacBook and in fact set me back in productivity as the TB3 never worked and I had zero decent option for decent external monitors. After struggling with it for months, I replaced it with a SP4 and while it is much better, it still has severe limitations and then add that a large majority of Windows10 apps (Adobe, Autodesk, among others) still Handel high resolutions horribly. I should add that neither of these offer any significant performance edge over my 1023 Mac.

Note that MS has not upgraded the Surface line either, and I have yet to see a compelling Kaby Lake machine. An employee's HP absorbed a cup of coffee this week and I have been searching for a decent replacement (unsuccessfully).

I think we will see a new Mini (even smaller) when Apple has their own Ax processor ready for OS X.