The Smoking Gun, Apple working on eGPU on Thunderbolt for nMP and others

[MacVidCards]

"There is no user servicable part inside"...

1- You have to find an MXM version of the GPU you want. You won't find them boxed in store.
2- You then have to unglue the screen. Which voids the waranty.
3- Unplug everything inside and partially if not totally remove the components. Again the waranty thing.
4- Find and buy a new sealing sticky tape/gasket. Not available in store either.
5- Plug everything back and hope you didn't forget anything
6- Glue back the screen

Yeah, it is replacable, just not by anybody unlike replacing a GPU in a modern PC case where you don't even need a screwdriver to do the job...

Someplace in there you need to include "fire up BGA reballer and hot air reflow workstation"

In addition to glueing the screen in, they have been soldering the GPU cards to the logic board since 2012. Last iMacs with MXM cards are 2011s.

They're training us well, buy, use for a year or two, throw away and buy again. The opposite of "green". Every time a poorly cooled GPU dies now it's new Logicboard time. Set price of new logic board near price of new machine....guess what they buy?

 

[goMac]

Someplace in there you need to include "fire up BGA reballer and hot air reflow workstation"

In addition to glueing the screen in, they have been soldering the GPU cards to the logic board since 2012. Last iMacs with MXM cards are 2011s.

They're training us well, buy, use for a year or two, throw away and buy again. The opposite of "green". Every time a poorly cooled GPU dies now it's new Logicboard time. Set price of new logic board near price of new machine....guess what they buy?

I'm always surprised how many people spring for repairs on a machine that are the same or more than a new machine. Emotional attachment maybe? Yeah, I know the part costs are inflated, but for some reason people just always want to keep the old one.

 

[m4v3r1ck]

^^ 1984?

 

[Nosferax]

I'm always surprised how many people spring for repairs on a machine that are the same or more than a new machine. Emotional attachment maybe? Yeah, I know the part costs are inflated, but for some reason people just always want to keep the old one.

Not really talking about repair here... It's about upgrades to keep a perfectly good screen functioning adequately when said screen is paired with a non upgradable GPU as per the scenario mentioned earlier.

 

[antonis]

http://www.magma.com/catalog/thunderbolt-2-expansion

http://www.akitio.com/accessories/thunder2-pcie-box

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/Thunderbolt/PCIe_Chassis/Mercury_Helios_2

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Sonnet Technologies/ECHOEXP3D/

There are more out there...

Well, they are PCIe enclosures but, officially, they are not eGPU enclosures, as they do not support GPU cards (they actually state that on their specs). But if there will be an unofficial eGPU for that matter, these enclosures have potentials - maybe.

You mean like how everyone was so sure Apple would never put HDMI on their machines? Or make notebooks with non removable batteries? Or favor USB over Firewire? Or switch to Intel processors? Or make a phone without a physical keypad?

I can go on and on... if anything is clear, it's that under Tim Cook, the past is not a predictor of the future. Statements like that always come back to bite you in the end because you don't know what Apple is going to do anymore than the rest of us.

I don't think that there will be a single person here that woulnd't wish for this to be true. Apple indeed does surprise us every now and then. However, Apple seems to have taken the opposite route for the moment. Instead of opening their systems, they are closing them more (and all these under Tim Cook's leadership). iMac, Mac Mini, Mac Pro; all of them are more closed than before. So if I had to guess...I'd say everything shows that they'll keep going that way for the near future.

 

[wesk702]

This supports my theory of a gpu built in Thunderbolt 5k display. Crazy I am not.

 

[theSeb]

which would result more sells of displays at Apple....and we all know they love to make money.

Companies are trying to make money? THE TRAVESTY!

 

[PhiLLoW]

Companies are trying to make money? THE TRAVESTY!

have you even read the post I quoted?


A user said it would be "dumb" if displays have a reduced lifespan.

I said it would be a benefit for Apple ( more sold displays = more income ) and that they've done something like this before.

 

[MacVidCards]

An interesting development, I've found a poster at tech inferno who says latest rMBP behaved like my 2014 Mini. eGPU without special EFI can be used in OSX ONLY for GPGPU. Unable to output to displays while in OSX. We have been able to get Mini to output to 1 display by using a special rom to break through at boot. I think it is possible that Apple is trying to close the door to any solution not originating in Cupertino.

Will know soon enough, have a new rMBP that we can verify function with after Christmas.

Will be pretty crappy of Apple if this is deliberate but I don't think anyone will be surprised.

 

[EdDuPlessis]

.


Will be pretty crappy of Apple if this is deliberate but I don't think anyone will be surprised.

We had a Mac Pro designed to be upgradable and keep us loyal. We stuck with the machine because we could tinker with it and bought iPads and iPhones to sync with it. Then they took it away from us and gave us a cylinder version of the failed Cube. Overpriced and in some respects laughable.

We had the hope that MXM graphics cards would lead to upgradable GPUs in iMacs and MacBook Pros. They took that away from us and soldered the graphics to the board. Then they did the same with memory.

We had a MacBook Pro with user replaceable hard drive. They took that away and sealed the machine up.

We had a Mac Mini with two SATA ports for capacity or RAID. They downgraded that machine too.

All the money we gave Apple for years is not good enough for them. They are not grateful to us who promoted the Mac as a serious platform. They think we are like drug addicts who will just throw away whole computers and buy new ones whenever they think we should. Drug dealing is the best way to describe the new ethos at Apple. Another Califonian corporate monopoly happy to abuse its base.

But some of us are not so addicted and can quite happily move to Windows and custom rigs.

 

[Sedor]

An interesting development, I've found a poster at tech inferno who says latest rMBP behaved like my 2014 Mini. eGPU without special EFI can be used in OSX ONLY for GPGPU. Unable to output to displays while in OSX. We have been able to get Mini to output to 1 display by using a special rom to break through at boot. I think it is possible that Apple is trying to close the door to any solution not originating in Cupertino.

Will know soon enough, have a new rMBP that we can verify function with after Christmas.

Will be pretty crappy of Apple if this is deliberate but I don't think anyone will be surprised.

I've tried eGPU at my rMBP (late 2013) and my nMP - got no signal at the display.

Besides of that I noticed that the rMBP has no problem with booting when the eGPU is attached, my nMP refuses to start when the eGPU is plugged it - it stops before the startup chime comes (but the eGPU works when I wait for the startup chime and then turn the power of the eGPU on).

 

[MacVidCards]

Interesting, now I'm really looking forward to the new rMBP. Sooner or later I will also test on nMP. I had a kind gentleman offer to let me come use his machine but moving eGPU now is difficult. Will be easier when I get enclosures finished.

But looking more and more like we have something to offer. I never thought that EFI could open up eGPU on Macs but looking like it can.

I will know for sure when someone posts inability using Akitio or other TB enclosure with 2014 Mini or when I get ahold of one of the 2013 machines that people have had no luck getting display output in OSX. It feels more and more like Apple stacking the deck. (Again)

 

[Sedor]

I am curious about what you figure out when you have the rMBP and you get your hands on a nMP!

So far it isn't much important for me to get output to a display with the eGPU as my main usage will be having it as gpgpu.
More interested I am in that weird behavior of the nMP when you turn it on with the eGPU plugged in and power already turned on.

 

[RoastingPig]

I heard anand schimpi back in 2010 say he expects apple to implement a gpu in there cinema displays. Its now 2015 or about to be and we havent seen didley squat.

I fully support you mvc

 

[Gav Mack]

This supports my theory of a gpu built in Thunderbolt 5k display. Crazy I am not.

Definitely not crazy else you've joined my club as número uno in the funny farm! And replacing an iMac gpu is a waste of time - even the 125w 2905x is which my 680 still dusts at gaming res is too much for that 5k chassis to handle. It might be able to handle a full sized part with that complete 5k chassis adapted though if you add up what the haswell cpu and logic board consumes though. But I'm sure the Intel silicon to support it natively is a while off yet and you are bound to be left with one choice of brand - the wrong one for many!

I should have some very, very big clues about the new Mac models on Monday and midweek a load more clues about other stuff too as I like to have my sure fire hunches backed up by facts. My friend rang today said he wanted his maxed out 15 retina now after me waiting for months for him to have the dosh - I said wait for next year it will truly be worth it but totally forgot to say I'd totally annihilated my discount fruit basket for 2014 over a week ago until I put the phone down!

He does music with lots of real time effects which I reckon will be a test for even for the current top model but not the next one

 

[DonMega]

We had a Mac Pro designed to be upgradable and keep us loyal. We stuck with the machine because we could tinker with it and bought iPads and iPhones to sync with it. Then they took it away from us and gave us a cylinder version of the failed Cube. Overpriced and in some respects laughable.

We had the hope that MXM graphics cards would lead to upgradable GPUs in iMacs and MacBook Pros. They took that away from us and soldered the graphics to the board. Then they did the same with memory.

We had a MacBook Pro with user replaceable hard drive. They took that away and sealed the machine up.

We had a Mac Mini with two SATA ports for capacity or RAID. They downgraded that machine too.

All the money we gave Apple for years is not good enough for them. They are not grateful to us who promoted the Mac as a serious platform. They think we are like drug addicts who will just throw away whole computers and buy new ones whenever they think we should. Drug dealing is the best way to describe the new ethos at Apple. Another Califonian corporate monopoly happy to abuse its base.

But some of us are not so addicted and can quite happily move to Windows and custom rigs.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Erm,

 

[goMac]

Will be pretty crappy of Apple if this is deliberate but I don't think anyone will be surprised.

Pretty sure nothing deliberate is going on here. A lot of things in general that are attributed to Apple doing things "deliberately" are just an untested configuration of some sort Apple doesn't care about. The GL stack and driver situation is a tangled mess.

It's important to note factors at play here the versions of Thunderbolt, and the GPU present in the machine. The GPU drivers for some of these Macs were never tested in a multi-GPU configuration, especially with a "hot-swap-kind-of-sort-of" GPU, so results can vary wildly. There have been a lot of issues with Nvidia GPUs not playing well with a second GPU that appears over Thunderbolt.

(This applies on the Windows side as well, FWIW.)

 

[EdDuPlessis]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Erm,

You are laughing on your own and hoping the world will join in with you to stroke your internet ego. Ain't gonna happen. We're all annoyed over Apple's level of control on these points. Storage, memory and graphics capabilities are quickly consumed by modern software. A lack of affordable upgrade path for individual components is...well...you just keep giggling and go back to your 4chan

 

[Gav Mack]

You are laughing on your own and hoping the world will join in with you to stroke your internet ego. Ain't gonna happen. We're all annoyed over Apple's level of control on these points. Storage, memory and graphics capabilities are quickly consumed by modern software. A lack of affordable upgrade path for individual components is...well...you just keep giggling and go back to your 4chan

Everyone is annoyed - add kext restrictions with genuine apple parts with older model madness, trim to non apple ssd, ssd makers having to fake genuine strings to enable it, handicapping bootcamp as more of my gripes that simply are not necessary any more for them. It is not the 1990's any more, they are now the 4th biggest PC manufacturer in the world and I expect that to climb even higher.

I too want apple to market a high end modular pro single box dual xeon workstation with slots and thunderbolt too. Ideally with replaceable newer generation Intel platform logic boards they sell and profit on to cater for the high, high end true PRO user. Even a mandatory annual subscription like a dev/pro account I would happily pay on top to even own one. Because then Apple will go back to this high end workstation market they sold the Mac Pro message to us users in the first place with and then deserted us and the market disgracefully with the can and Final Cut Pro.

But there is always hope - and in MVC's awesome quest to perfect this I see a glint of light and more hopefully in that tunnel of darkness to come

 

[EdDuPlessis]

Everyone is annoyed - add kext restrictions with genuine apple parts with older model madness, trim to non apple ssd, ssd makers having to fake genuine strings to enable it, handicapping bootcamp as more of my gripes that simply are not necessary any more for them. It is not the 1990's any more, they are now the 4th biggest PC manufacturer in the world and I expect that to climb even higher.

I hope Apple doesn't climb higher. They will just abuse their monopoly position like all corporations do. Imagine if Apple got hacked like Sony just did. All those internal emails will be full of embarrassing conversations like

"Hey, let's disable TRIM on third party SSDs"

"Great idea LOLZ"

"They want 4K 60hz output from a graphics card they didn't buy from us? Screw them."

"Btw you should really go to a doctor to check out that problem you are having"

"Nah that quantum herbal urine concoction Deepak mixed for me will cure anything."

"If this toaster doesn't sell we can always try a trashcan design."

"Hi Steve, I suggest we rename iTools to iDisk"

"Hi Steve, I suggest we rename iDisk to Dot Mac"

"Hi Steve, I suggest we rename Dot Mac to me.com"

"Hi Steve, I suggest we rename me.com to iCloud"

 

[Gav Mack]

I hope Apple doesn't climb higher. They will just abuse their monopoly position like all corporations do. Imagine if Apple got hacked like Sony just did. All those internal emails will be full of embarrassing conversations like

"Hey, let's disable TRIM on third party SSDs"

"Great idea LOLZ"

"They want 4K 60hz output from a graphics card they didn't buy from us? Screw them."

"Btw you should really go to a doctor to check out that problem you are having"

"Nah that quantum herbal urine concoction Deepak mixed for me will cure anything."

"If this toaster doesn't sell we can always try a trashcan design."

"Hi Steve, I suggest we rename iTools to iDisk"

"Hi Steve, I suggest we rename iDisk to Dot Mac"

"Hi Steve, I suggest we rename Dot Mac to me.com"

"Hi Steve, I suggest we rename me.com to iCloud"

They will do their utmost to enforce any kind of innovation too sadly using their blinkered vision of the future. Using the DMCA Act in the states they have a lot of power in that law, they shut down Psystar into Chapter 11 and eventually completely bankrupted the company, the current lawsuit with third party devices connecting to iTunes when blackberry faked iPod user strings another example too. This AngelFire SSD firm that fake the Apple device strings will no doubt face their wrath if the product proves to be popular. I will stop at just those examples, I could reel off even more but I have already spent too much time trying to explain this to others who seem to be deaf to it.

But I will also say that there is a way I have thought of that they will find hard to shut down - an overall community driven campaign highlighting all my gripes I listed before. With Yosemite and signed kext restrictions I believe they have given an opportunity to inform the public they are being inherently unfair about the 'fair use' of their products.

 

[Matrixfan]

Seriously, who draws these patent images? I mean, it's like they drew it on a moving train without even another pad of paper to use as a straightedge, or drunkenly scribbled out at a bar one night.

This is intentional to focus only on the detail regarding the patent, and to be as exact as it can be for legal reasons. In addition these drawings don't give away any design cues for other companies to copy.

 

[DonMega]

You are laughing on your own and hoping the world will join in with you to stroke your internet ego. Ain't gonna happen. We're all annoyed over Apple's level of control on these points. Storage, memory and graphics capabilities are quickly consumed by modern software. A lack of affordable upgrade path for individual components is...well...you just keep giggling and go back to your 4chan

I'm happy to laugh at you alone. I don't need the affirmation or an "internet ego" boost. You are the one crying to the MacRumors choir. It's the same ol' chant. All I did was express my amusement and frustration and hearing the same crying over and over and over. I come here to glean bits of information and knowledge not crying over what Apple is doing or not doing but it's getting harder and harder to pull the nuggets of useful info about of the balls of mucus-filled tissue.

You might try proffering some solutions instead of just complaining. Even MacVidCards complains about Apple, but at least he is productively working toward solutions and even has solutions in place for things he finds wrong with what he feels Apple is doing wrong. NUGGETS, man, USEFUL NUGGETS! That's why I was in this thread to begin with.

Keep complaining and keep consuming...

 

[EdDuPlessis]

I'm happy to laugh at you alone.

Buddy, we know the shortfall of complaining about these issues. However we are also aware of the democratic power consumers have when they stick it to companies and keep our spending power in our pockets. If you're happy to keep silent about it cool, but it's not like we need your cross posts from 4chan to enlighten us.

 

[goMac]

You guys must not remember the time Apple locked their CD drivers to only work with Apple drives in Mac OS 9.

----------

"Hi Steve, I suggest we rename iTools to iDisk"

"Hi Steve, I suggest we rename iDisk to Dot Mac"

Erm, iTools was never renamed to iDisk. iDisk was a product under iTools. It was that way the day iTools launched.