The Smoking Gun, Apple working on eGPU on Thunderbolt for nMP and others

[EdDuPlessis]

You guys must not remember the time Apple locked their CD drivers to only work with Apple drives in Mac OS 9.

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Erm, iTools was never renamed to iDisk. iDisk was a product under iTools. It was that way the day iTools launched.

Ok but you don't need to say erm or um in a post. That's very 2008 and its beneath you.

 

[ha1o2surfer]

the Thunderbolt eGPU is not dead! If someone could perfect this Apple might. Too bad Dell already beat them to the punch.. I use an eGPU everyday and man, it's a blessing. Super cheap setup really spits out some high performance

That's more powerful than a Decked out MacPro for only 1500 bucks.. This includes my laptop and all the hardware I used to get it working.

 

[kic]

the Thunderbolt eGPU is not dead! If someone could perfect this Apple might. Too bad Dell already beat them to the punch.. I use an eGPU everyday and man, it's a blessing. Super cheap setup really spits out some high performance

Image

That's more powerful than a Decked out MacPro for only 1500 bucks.. This includes my laptop and all the hardware I used to get it working.

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

 

[Marhowl]

The 10 series successor to the GTX 980 will be even more powerful more efficient and of course compatible with Mac Pro towers. It's the true successor to the seven series. The nine series was just a modest transition to efficient design.

Then there is Pascal. There might be a version compatible with PCIE 1/2/3 but it's true performance needs much more bandwidth. Currently there aren't apps or games or storage devices that can feed so much data so quickly anyway.

If what you're saying is true, then I'll wait with the upgrade unless I can get get a good deal for the Evga GTX 980 SuperClocked ACX 2.0, which might already be more than I really need

 

[flowrider]

^^^^If you keep waiting for the next "Big Thing", you'll be waiting forever. The GTX 980 is a tremendous Graphic Card upgrade, and it is available with an EFI now.

Also note that the post you quoted is from a forum member that has been banned because he came on this site to stir up trouble and promote a discredited vendor that was also a thief. I would take whatever he posted with a huge grain of salt.

Lou

 

[ha1o2surfer]

I keep reading over OP's post and wondering why this is pointed out. Sure it says thunderbolt but what's so special about it knowing it's over a thunderbolt port? The Controller is basically a splitter. It's like knowing which USB Hub your mouse is attached too?? If anything, I hope that is not Apple building in limitations to the OS so it can do blacklisting on the "thunderbolt port" on an EFI level. If the OS and EFI/BIOS is implemented correctly, a GPU should have no problem being used over a thunderbolt port. I don't even use any hacks to get mine to work. Plug in, install drivers, done.


I am just hoping Apple doesn't shoot themselves in the foot lol

I don't see anything special about the hierarchy here......

 

[Synchro3]

I've tried eGPU at my rMBP (late 2013) and my nMP - got no signal at the display.

Besides of that I noticed that the rMBP has no problem with booting when the eGPU is attached, my nMP refuses to start when the eGPU is plugged it - it stops before the startup chime comes (but the eGPU works when I wait for the startup chime and then turn the power of the eGPU on).

I built an eGPU Thunderbolt 1 setup with my spare MVC EFI GTX 570 card.

No problem when connected to my MacBook Pro 2012 13', got the signal at the display. OpenGL 561% faster than internal HD 4000 Graphics, GPGPU (CUDA) working.

However, when i connect the same eGPU with the same OS, same kext hackings and same Nvidia Driver to my Mac Mini 2012, OS X crashes at startup, in the moment the Nvidia Driver starts.

It's a crapshoot which Mac's working with eGPU or not...

 

[handheldgames]

IMO... That does point to an Apple / EFI / Thunderbolt eGPU Lock to keep the technology in docking stations for laptops.

I built an eGPU Thunderbolt 1 setup with my spare MVC EFI GTX 570 card.

No problem when connected to my MacBook Pro 2012 13', got the signal at the display. OpenGL 561% faster than internal HD 4000 Graphics, GPGPU (CUDA) working.

However, when i connect the same eGPU with the same OS, same kext hackings and same Nvidia Driver to my Mac Mini 2012, OS X crashes at startup, in the moment the Nvidia Driver starts.

It's a crapshoot which Mac's working with eGPU or not...

 

[Synchro3]

Yesterday i found a new ASUS GTX-770 DirectCU II OC 4GB card for $ 225, and ordered it.

When i have the new card i will try again the eGPU with the Mac Mini 2012. Maybe the source of error is the GTX 570.

As i can see in the net there were successful eGPU - Mac Mini 2012 setups….

 

[goMac]

IMO... That does point to an Apple / EFI / Thunderbolt eGPU Lock to keep the technology in docking stations for laptops.

Not really. The OS X GPU driver stack is pretty delicate. No one working/testing the Mac Mini driver stack ever assumed there would be an Nvidia GPU on that box.

People here are going "OMG my Mac Mini doesn't work with an external Nvidia GPU! Conspiracy!" How many people at Apple testing a Mac Mini's drivers in combination with an Nvidia driver? How many people tested a Mac Mini's firmware with an Nvidia card?

It's not that it doesn't work because Apple intentionally blocked it. It doesn't work because Apple intentionally never supported it or tested it because why would they? There probably is some firmware or driver level bug on the Mac Mini that Apple never encountered at all because why would they?

Software isn't magic. Especially when it comes to the OS X OpenGL stack. And the Nvidia drivers are already notoriously picky about when there is a GPU of a different vendor present already. (Because again: Why should the Nvidia driver team ever test that scenario for a lot of GPUs?)

 

[MacVidCards]

I have gotten 3 NVIDIA GOUs running on a Mini.

Octane Render scores that make ANY Mac Pro blush.

I can fix certain problems with EFI on these cards. Mini is extra nice because you can set the eGPU enclosure up and forget about it, it's like the cards is inside the Mini.

But unlike reverse engineering Mac Pro roms this is all virgin territory, there is no working rom to take apart. But I have most definitely gotten things working that nobody else has, I'm convinced that custom EFIs are the answer here.

But this work is in addition to the 980/970/960 development and testing. And then I get calls for Art work and I have a whole other route I am pursuing that has nothing to do with computers.

So, with Netkas' help we will likely have best eGPU options for Macs, unless Apple starts selling them or allows someone else.

First time you plug a Mini into a 780 and watch the boot screen pop up from the 780 there is no doubt that Custom eGPU EFI will bring these to masses.

 

[philliplakis]

I have gotten 3 NVIDIA GOUs running on a Mini.

Octane Render scores that make ANY Mac Pro blush.

I can fix certain problems with EFI on these cards. Mini is extra nice because you can set the eGPU enclosure up and forget about it, it's like the cards is inside the Mini.

But unlike reverse engineering Mac Pro roms this is all virgin territory, there is no working rom to take apart. But I have most definitely gotten things working that nobody else has, I'm convinced that custom EFIs are the answer here.

But this work is in addition to the 980/970/960 development and testing. And then I get calls for Art work and I have a whole other route I am pursuing that has nothing to do with computers.

So, with Netkas' help we will likely have best eGPU options for Macs, unless Apple starts selling them or allows someone else.

First time you plug a Mini into a 780 and watch the boot screen pop up from the 780 there is no doubt that Custom eGPU EFI will bring these to masses.

The only thing scary about using a mini is its cooling internals

I only 3D stills, and when i use my mini the temps tend to go a little high, but to use it as a node through a 10gbs network (thunderbolt) would be another story....

Did you get 4 running? i just ordered a sonnet and will be hooking my GPU cluster to my mini and macbook pro... couldn't for the life of me get more than 4 GPU's working on a cMP....
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/20602010/

Not a gamer and not to fazed on the boot screens eGPU i think there gpGPU capabilities are more fascinating

what would be amazing though... a nMP with there rubbish d300/500/700 removed and 4xGTX cards on a cluster... now that will blow some minds.

Not sure how or if its possible though but would be nice.

 

[Synchro3]

I have gotten 3 NVIDIA GOUs running on a Mini.

Octane Render scores that make ANY Mac Pro blush.

I can fix certain problems with EFI on these cards. Mini is extra nice because you can set the eGPU enclosure up and forget about it, it's like the cards is inside the Mini.

But unlike reverse engineering Mac Pro roms this is all virgin territory, there is no working rom to take apart. But I have most definitely gotten things working that nobody else has, I'm convinced that custom EFIs are the answer here.

But this work is in addition to the 980/970/960 development and testing. And then I get calls for Art work and I have a whole other route I am pursuing that has nothing to do with computers.

So, with Netkas' help we will likely have best eGPU options for Macs, unless Apple starts selling them or allows someone else.

First time you plug a Mini into a 780 and watch the boot screen pop up from the 780 there is no doubt that Custom eGPU EFI will bring these to masses.

Question, did you test/could you test the eGPU setups with a 2012 Mac Mini? I would be very interested in this, because it would greatly upgrade this fine quad core machine.

 

[MacVidCards]

Question, did you test/could you test the eGPU setups with a 2012 Mac Mini? I would be very interested in this, because it would greatly upgrade this fine quad core machine.

Did you look at the tech inferno board? In my experience, TB1 macs have much easier time with eGPUs then do TB2 ones. I don't have a 2012 here, just the 2014. But I'm pretty sure someone has done with 2012. Our EFI ones would give bootscreens and easier time getting into Windows.

 

[Synchro3]

Yes there are working Mac Mini 2012 eGPU setups.

My old GTX 570 (with your EFI) as eGPU works on my MacBook Pro 13' 2012, but not on my Mac Mini 2012. The Mac Mini crashes at startup.

I think it could be an issue with the GTX 570. So i ordered a PC GTX 770 to test as eGPU, but I'm still waiting for the card.

Some time ago i did the EFI firmware update 1.7: http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1616

I hope i did not broke the ability for eGPU with the update…

 

[MacVidCards]

Yes there are working Mac Mini 2012 eGPU setups.

My old GTX 570 (with your EFI) as eGPU works on my MacBook Pro 13' 2012, but not on my Mac Mini 2012. The Mac Mini crashes at startup.

I think it could be an issue with the GTX 570. So i ordered a PC GTX 770 to test as eGPU, but I'm still waiting for the card.

Some time ago i did the EFI firmware update 1.7: http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1616

I hope i did not broke the ability for eGPU with the update…

The confusing thing here is the term "EFI"

Apple used one of their making on 2006/7 Mac Pros.

Then a new 64bit one on 2008 MP. As we have recently discovered there is in fact a 3rd version on 2009-12 MPs.

So the GTX570 you got from us would have one that works on 2008 MP and 2009-12 MP. Apple has since switched to a different one.

They could have easily used the UEFI standard like everyone else but that would have made everything too easy. (and allowed 3rd parties to sell upgrades like eGPUs)

They have once again created a new EFI that doesn't adhere to previous EFIs form them, or the industry standard one. We have gotten a loose idea of how this new one works and have it functioning on some cards.

Fairly sure I could do one that would enable the 570 on your Mini but then it would likely not work on MP anymore.

EFI was supposed to unify things, instead Apple found another way to fragment markets and keep their stuff "special". I may someday be able to combine a cMP EFI with a nMac EFI and retrofit my old cards, but that will likely require new EEPROM chips to hold all of the files. Meanwhile trying to finish Mac Edition 970/980 cards and ship them. Oh yeah, and the rest of my life too.

So much stuff could be done, but so little time.

In a perfect world I would have a giant facility here in Hollywood where there would be 1 of every Mac ever to have a PCI/AGP/PCIE slot. I would have a team of trained buyers getting all of the right used cards on Fleabay and CL. Steady handed guys or girls would solder on the new chips and flash and test the cards. Bad leaky caps would be replaced, dust cleared, fans replaced.

Would be a 1 stop shop for every Mac that could take a video card. We did the first Core image cards for Cube (6200 WANG XFX), the fastest cards for PPC (7800GTX512 and 7800GS) and basically EVERYTHING for Intel MP. Along the way had help from Arti Itra, Thomas Perrier, and Netkas. Anyone have an unused factory in Hollywood?

The eGPU thing is even more exciting and would ideally require 1 of each TB Mac ever made for testing. A variety of displays, especially new 4K and 5K and HDMI 2.0. The TB eGPU thing is really exciting, but have not had time to push it forward. Still planning to get something out to Barefeats so the incredible possibilities get more widely known.

Here is an example of something that needs refinement. I have found a way for a 2014 Mini to have 100% reliable boot after boot after boot eGPU. But it requires 2 GTX780s. Using just one gives a 60% reliable boot screens while adding 2nd one makes it perfect. But then you have twice as much in eGPU as you do in Mini $$$$-wise. Just another detail to figure out.

I will say this, the 3 different TB2 machines I have tested have been pretty similar in their behavior. SO what has worked on Mini 2014 has worked on nMP, etc. My 2012 rMBP is MUCH easier to deal with, doesn't require the eGPU EFI and can run a bunch of displays. TB2 stuff much more limited. 2012 Mini shouldn't be too difficult. If you are in LA area drop it off and I can make it work.

 

[h9826790]

So，theoretically，it's possible to use a D700 nMP with R295x2 as eGPU in Windows and link up all of them in quad crossfire, right?

 

[UniDoubleU]

So，theoretically，it's possible to use a D700 nMP with R295x2 as eGPU in Windows and link up all of them in quad crossfire, right?

Would be an awesome machine if that works. But probably not, R9 295x2 chips are of newer generation than D700s.

 

[h9826790]

Would be an awesome machine if that works. But probably not, R9 295x2 chips are of newer generation than D700s.

Ah, Yes, CF only works with the cards that belong to the same series. So, the best a D700 can match with is the R9 280x, isn't it?

 

[UniDoubleU]

Ah, Yes, CF only works with the cards that belong to the same series. So, the best a D700 can match with is the R9 280x, isn't it?

Those should work. If you can CF HD 7970 with R9 280x then we should safely assume that D700 would also work.

 

[Pressure]

Those should work. If you can CF HD 7970 with R9 280x then we should safely assume that D700 would also work.

All are based on Tahiti, so there should be no issues.

 

[Synchro3]

The confusing thing here is the term "EFI"

Apple used one of their making on 2006/7 Mac Pros. Then a new 64bit one on 2008 MP. As we have recently discovered there is in fact a 3rd version on 2009-12 MPs.

So the GTX570 you got from us would have one that works on 2008 MP and 2009-12 MP. Apple has since switched to a different one. Fairly sure I could do one that would enable the 570 on your Mini but then it would likely not work on MP anymore.

Here is an example of something that needs refinement. I have found a way for a 2014 Mini to have 100% reliable boot after boot after boot eGPU. But it requires 2 GTX780s. Using just one gives a 60% reliable boot screens while adding 2nd one makes it perfect. But then you have twice as much in eGPU as you do in Mini $$$$-wise. Just another detail to figure out.

I will say this, the 3 different TB2 machines I have tested have been pretty similar in their behavior. SO what has worked on Mini 2014 has worked on nMP, etc. My 2012 rMBP is MUCH easier to deal with, doesn't require the eGPU EFI and can run a bunch of displays. TB2 stuff much more limited. 2012 Mini shouldn't be too difficult. If you are in LA area drop it off and I can make it work.

Hi MacVidCards. Thank you very much for the detailed feedback. And my high appreciation for your efforts.

An eGPU setup with two GTX 780 would be a little bit overkill.

I live in Europe, but thanks for your offer. First i will try the PC GTX 770 (could order a new one for only $250.-). I've chosen the GTX 770 because of Mountain Lion and Mavericks compatibility. Boot screen for my eGPU is not that important, even the GTX 570 with your EFI had no Boot screen (only in eGPU mode, in the Mac Pro it has the Boot Screen).

I will post the results when i got the card. If the PC GTX 770 does not work as eGPU, i would be happy to use your services. It would not matter if the shipping costs would be expensive, because the GTX 770 price was low.

 

[byke]

So with the thunderbolt 3 (Intel) officially supporting eGPU - will we see it make its way to mac (officially)?

 

[H2SO4]

[QUOTE="MacVidCards, post: 20446543, member: 592511”]……….but has held off introducing either as a favor to Intel, to sell more computers, or just because they are mean.[/QUOTE]
This is the bit I believe.

 

[p.l]

So with the thunderbolt 3 (Intel) officially supporting eGPU - will we see it make its way to mac (officially)?

Or now is a good time.... With it being implemented i also see restrictions being implemented at the same time....