Read the post above your post.
And if you are right, could you please send me the link that confirms your claims?
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Read the post above your post.
And if you are right, could you please send me the link that confirms your claims?
So what happens when getting it repaired through Apple costs more than the Mac is worth, or Apple classifies the hardware as vintage? At this point it's not a question of trust or customer service, a third-party or DIY repair is simply the only option.
Apple will just want their devices to be appliances, like your microwave. Enclosed, non-upgradable, just an appliance. When it breaks, they'll want you to buy a new one
They already treat their computers as appliances. Even they cannot repair a keyboard or replace the battery without replace the top case. Everything is so sealed its virtually a disposable product.
I sometimes wonder if it isn’t just a matter of time before we are to a point where we are picking up new computers on a 2 year lease program,rather than buying them. Then at the end of 2 years, turning them in for a new one.
Inevitable. I’d predict three years, but the cellphone industry went to two, so you never know.
That’s why I picked two. That and I heard some presentation awhile back from a company that was developing autonomous electric cars. Their model is that they didn’t plan on selling the cars, but instead you would lease them for 2 years and then swap it out for another.
Probably unwise to assert a 'fact' about EU regulations when you have little or no knowledge. This is especially true when the EU has legislation in place to specifically prevent the case you peddle. To be clear, in the EU you can get your car serviced at any garage and, if serviced in accordance with the manual, a new car will still retain its warranty. Moreover, the car manufacturers are obliged to provide any and all technical documents or unique tooling to allow a third party garage to service or repair the vehicle in question. The block exemption laws were introduced to provide increased customer choice, lower prices and protect independent garages.
I do wonder if the EU will introduce similar legislation again if Apple becomes overly prescriptive in its repair requirements. The EU has proven to be intolerant of Apple in the past and has never held back from issuing fines to large US tech companies.
https://9to5mac.com/2018/10/06/independent-mac-repair-results-ifixit/
So this mean all this thread was for nothing? Just for cry ?
So this mean all this thread was for nothing? Just for cry ?
Bo because I think there's still plenty of evidence that supports the idea that spoke only wants them touching Macs
Thank you for clarifying this. I have no problem in admitting that I was wrong (especially since its true that I don't know much on the topic, as I don't own a car and have no connection to automotive business). However, isn't it the case that the garage still needs special proprietary tools and devices in order to service certain car brands? Do garages have to buy these from the car manufacturers, or do they get them for free? Are there some (more tricky) maintenance work that a mechanic would need to have passed manufacturer's certification, or can any mechanic do any kind of work without affecting manufacturer's warranty?
It seems to me that there are two issues conflated here. One group of posters believes that the validation tool discussed here is so that Apple can prevent independent repairs. Others (me included), believe that the prime focus is on making sure that the replacement parts used are of suitable quality and safe. And I do not see how this will affect the third-party repair options, since any shop that is interested in repairing Apple's products can get certification and access to parts and all the necessary tools. This is already the case now and tightening up post-repair validation won't change it.
Of course, under a more radical "right to repair" (I looked it up, yay) view, what this means is that Apple should be obliged to post these tools in the public domain so that anyone willing to perform maintenance can do so without compromising the safety. As a customer, I don't have a particular opinion on this. I am perfectly content with the current certified repair center option and I don't see how a universal "right to repair" law will make my experience better. My computer is a working tool, not some sort of "private property that I can do whatever I want" statement. And I am not interested in repairing vintage machines, since they have no utility to me — I don't own computers that are over 3 years old. Then again, should such legislation be passed, Apple would have to give these tools away for free. Right now, they "sell" them as part of their certification process.
And finally, my personal opinion about how repairs should look like is as follows. I believe that Apple should offer universal subsidized flatrate (relatively low-price) repair options, where they would replace entire blocks around the failed item (the blocks would then go to the diagnostics facility for automated testing and refurbishing). As I said before, I don't believe that custom repairs make sense economically, since the cost of expert work in a developed country is higher than the cost of hardware. Which is the reason to why we are buying Macs btw. Its cheaper for me to pay a premium for Apple computers than hiring an extra worker who would take care of Windows maintenance.
I'll answer but this is as far off-topic as I will go. The car manufactures do not provide unique tooling or technical documentation for free. To be open and fair both main dealers and independent garages are charged for the equipment and any subscription fees for diagnostic equipment or technical documentation.
As to capability, well as a minimum independent garages can do the same work as the main dealers. What is often the case is that independents can do more. As they are not tied to just manufacturers equipment they can chose other options. As a hobby, I do deep system diagnostics on Jaguar Land Rover cars and can integrate upgrades usually only available at time of purchase or make repairs at component level. Main dealers are prohibited from such functions as it would undermine the eye-watering premium charged by the OEM.
Back to the topic at hand - it is never a good idea to limit repairs to a single company as that company's duty is to support their shareholders and not the end user. Apple does not even offer a choice with many repairs and can flat-refuse to repair their own products yet deny the end-user or independent repair shop from undertaking the work instead. This is market manipulation to try and force a new purchase rather than a repair.
Regarding safety, well I have yet to see anyone die at the wheel of a laptop. If independent technicians can safely work on aircraft, cars, complex weapon systems, power stations et al, I am sure Apple equipment can be mastered.
As to capability, well as a minimum independent garages can do the same work as the main dealers. What is often the case is that independents can do more. As they are not tied to just manufacturers equipment they can chose other options. As a hobby, I do deep system diagnostics on Jaguar Land Rover cars and can integrate upgrades usually only available at time of purchase or make repairs at component level. Main dealers are prohibited from such functions as it would undermine the eye-watering premium charged by the OEM.
Back to the topic at hand - it is never a good idea to limit repairs to a single company as that company's duty is to support their shareholders and not the end user. Apple does not even offer a choice with many repairs and can flat-refuse to repair their own products yet deny the end-user or independent repair shop from undertaking the work instead. This is market manipulation to try and force a new purchase rather than a repair.
Regarding safety, well I have yet to see anyone die at the wheel of a laptop. If independent technicians can safely work on aircraft, cars, complex weapon systems, power stations et al, I am sure Apple equipment can be mastered.
That's what happened with Linus of Linus tech tips with regard to his iMac Pro.
Given the make up of MBPs (being so glued down), opening up the laptop is well beyond my comfort level at this stage. The iMac is even worse, trying to open it up, its a virtually sealed computer that I risk doing more harm then good.
Consumers are always better off with choice, and apple's directions seem to be in the opposite direction with consumers right to repair
For me the iMac and iMac Pro are the most accessible. With the screen being the access point and the pizza-cutter wheels making short work of the screen sticky strips (and with replacement strips readily available) you can get to the guts of the machines with ease. The iMP design allows for CPU and RAM upgrades but the GPU is part of the logic board; power, fans, speakers etc are all replaceable and, of equal importance, dust can be removed. I have just ordered a refurb base iMP and it should meet my needs for quite a while - it will replace my late-2015 5k iMac.
But the trend is undeniable, Apple is choosing to make access more difficult even when design opportunities exist that would help the end user.
But the trend is undeniable, Apple is choosing to make access more difficult even when design opportunities exist that would help the end user.
That is about the gist of it. I have had to buy my own unique tools and shop manuals to be able to do my own work. They do sell them at an inflated price, in part because they are proprietary when it comes to some of the tools and in part because they can for items like the shop manuals. But you can buy them if you are willing.
Apples approach of even refusing to fix their own machines or sell anyone parts to fix them is certainly a different approach to companies like Lenovo where you can find an online shopping list of OEM components, compatible components, and schematics.
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Agreed. And better keyboard in thin laptops as well as better thermals and ability to run linux.
I am not sure I understand what you mean. Better keyboard and better thermals are not traits I would attribute to the current models. Or are you saying that is what you would like to see in a future re-design?
Pre-2016 MBPs had better keyboard and better thermals than the ones Apple is selling. For the past two years, other manufacturers made laptops with better keyboards and thermals than the post-2016 MBPs.
Gotcha yeah. I would agree on the keyboard being better pre-2016. Not sure I would say the thermals were necessarily better, but certainly far more adequate for the architecture of the time.
This is absolutely it. Smh at consumers selling themselves down the river because they are emotionally attached to a company that scorns them
Welcome to the world of Apple
With that said, if you (or anyone) I'm not against Apple or macs, I even bought a 2018 machine myself. I think people need to objectively weigh the positives and negatives of any major purchase, whether its a Dell, Apple, or Lenovo.
When I was working in the software department for Volkswagen Group - one of the directors gave a presentation of future marketing strategy/vision, which was to mimic Apples i.e to market to peoples emotion, and get people emotionally attached to the product. They went on to talk about the advantages of such a strategy, including blind loyalty (not in those words, but it was obvious what he was getting at) among other things, such as people ignoring shortcomings or areas where the competition where doing better.
The key was to make buying their car an emotion-led process rather than a needs based purchase. Was rather interesting.
That's not new however, companies have been trying to tug at our heartstrings for years - well before apple was around. Admittedly apple has been successful and has a legion of dedicated followers.