They do have some changes for us in Windows 8 Beta

[TheSideshow]

It seems like there will be fundamental changes possibly occurring in the Beta of Windows 8. These are quotes from their latest Building 8 Blog post on the decision for the Start menu.

"Will there be a way to close Metro style apps without going to Task Manager? (Yes there will be, but we also want to talk about why you probably won't need to use it.)"

"Are we going to do anything to make the mouse more efficient in scrolling through your programs in Start? (Yes, we'll improve that experience, and show you much more in the beta.)"

"Some of you have talked about it feeling less efficient to cycle through your recent programs compared to using the taskbar (and we'll have more to say about that in future posts)"

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/10/03/evolving-the-start-menu.aspx

 

[boss.king]

Interesting. I really like that it seems Microsoft is listening intently to what people are asking for. They're making the OS people want, not the OS they think people want. This may be the first time I upgrade my OS before I buy a new machine.

 

[munkery]

Interesting. I really like that it seems Microsoft is listening intently to what people are asking for. They're making the OS people want, not the OS they think people want. This may be the first time I upgrade my OS before I buy a new machine.

Really, what about the ribbon?

Oh god Microsoft what are you doing?! The ribbon layout is the worst thing about office, it takes 10 minutes to find anything you need. I really hope there's a way to get back to the Win7 explorer look. I use keyboard shortcuts almost exclusively, I have no need for the ribbon handicap.

Oh christ. The ribbon is terrible.

Either you love the ribbon or hate the ribbon. I am in the latter group, I hate the ribbon. Its an awful addition to the file explorer

And more . . .

 

[boss.king]

Really, what about the ribbon?

You can turn it off.

 

[AppleScruff1]

Very informative reading. It looks like Microsoft is paying attention again like they did with Windows 7. I wonder how they got all of those statistics? Do you think they are secretly monitoring every mouse click to see how people are using their systems? It looks like some detailed info that gives them firsthand feedback of how the start menu and taskbar are being used.

 

[TheSideshow]

Very informative reading. It looks like Microsoft is paying attention again like they did with Windows 7. I wonder how they got all of those statistics? Do you think they are secretly monitoring every mouse click to see how people are using their systems? It looks like some detailed info that gives them firsthand feedback of how the start menu and taskbar are being used.

Yeah. People opt in to have their telemetry data sent I think

 

[roadbloc]

This is exactly why I'm looking forward to Windows 8. Unlike Apple, Microsoft are actually listening to their customers, which gives me hope that Windows 8 won't be a total **** up like Lion is.

 

[*LTD*]

Unlike Apple, Microsoft are actually listening to their customers,

Some define and reshape the market because they have a commanding vision, and stick to it often in the face of enormous risk.

Others have to "listen" and be told what to do.

 

[boss.king]

Some define and reshape the market because they have a commanding vision, and stick to it often in the face of enormous risk.

Others have to "listen" and be told what to do.

Maybe if Apple had listened more people would like Lion

 

[*LTD*]

Maybe if Apple had listened more people would like Lion

There's no evidence they don't.

 

[wpotere]

There's no evidence they don't.

yeah, but there is no evidence that they do either...

 

[maflynn]

Some define and reshape the market because they have a commanding vision, and stick to it often in the face of enormous risk.

Others have to "listen" and be told what to do.

There's no evidence they don't.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. You cannot state that its too Microsoft's disadvantage to listen to consumers and its not a disadvantage when Apple does. Apple does not generally listen to consumers they readily admit that. In fact Steve has always been forthright with the fact they avoid such things.

 

[*LTD*]

yeah, but there is no evidence that they do either...

Yes. Lion is a failure. What a letdown.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1223463/

http://macdailynews.com/2011/10/01/...b-share-ios-takes-61-58-u-s-mobile-web-share/

http://arstechnica.com/apple/reviews/2011/07/mac-os-x-10-7.ars

 

[boss.king]

Yes. Lion is a failure. What a letdown.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1223463/

http://macdailynews.com/2011/10/01/...b-share-ios-takes-61-58-u-s-mobile-web-share/

http://arstechnica.com/apple/reviews/2011/07/mac-os-x-10-7.ars

People bought it. That doesn't make it good. People bought Vista too, and look at what a piece of crap that was.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1235381/

Note how many people in this thread list Lion as one of their least favourite Apple products.

 

[*LTD*]

People bought it. That doesn't make it good. People bought Vista too, and look at what a piece of crap that was.

You're comparing an Apple OS to Vista??

People bought a closed, unlicensed OS, running on expensive hardware (entry fee is usually $1000) in record numbers (in the case of Vista's era, during a recession), despite the availability of more inexpensive and flexible options.

Vs.

Another Windows iteration running on cheap PCs.

Note how many people in this thread list Lion as one of their least favourite Apple products.

You're using MacRumors as a barometer of performance?

That's like asking Paris Hilton for relationship advice.

 

[tigres]

There's no evidence they don't.

Yeah, that's why it is still borked after 60 days of release.

 

[boss.king]

You're comparing an Apple OS to Vista??

People bought a closed, unlicensed OS, running on expensive hardware (entry fee is usually $1000) in record numbers (in the case of Vista's era, during a recession), despite the availability of more inexpensive and flexible options.

Vs.

Another Windows iteration running on cheap PCs.

Well when you say it so one-sidedly obviously your point will stand out.

People bought an extremely low cost OS for their existing hardware in record numbers and then quickly realised it was inferior to their previous OS.

Vs.

People buying a far more expensive OS, despite it being "another Windows iteration" to run on variously priced computers ranging from a few hundred dollars to well into the thousands of dollars.

See, I can twist facts too.

 

[wpotere]

Yes. Lion is a failure. What a letdown.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1223463/

http://macdailynews.com/2011/10/01/...b-share-ios-takes-61-58-u-s-mobile-web-share/

http://arstechnica.com/apple/reviews/2011/07/mac-os-x-10-7.ars

Wow, articles.... I have two machines that are still having issues with kernel panics (both run fine under SL) and that have WiFi issues along with various other bugs and Apple seems more intent in giving me cloud computing instead of fixing the problems in their OS. At least with SL it was patched pretty fast.

Here, a link for you....
https://forums.macrumors.com/forums/152/
Have a look at people that are struggling with Lion at the moment.

That being said, you pointed out that there was no evidence that Apple isn't listening to its customers and I simply said that there is no evidence there are. Microsoft is reaching way out to its community to try and make things right. You send them an idea and you get a response. Apple does not do this. You can submit a bug report and you will never hear anything until patch day to know if it is being worked.

I'm not saying Apple is a bad company, I am simply saying that MS is doing a dang good job of talking to the community and trying to harness the feedback. They are being very open about the new OS and that is a good thing. MS seems to have learned from Vista, perhaps Apple will learn from Lion?

 

[*LTD*]

People bought an extremely low cost OS for their existing hardware in record numbers and then quickly realised it was inferior to their previous OS.

Who are these people? Your friends here on MR?

MR doesn't in any away represent the market at large.

Seems the market keeps buying an inferior OS to the degree that they pushed Apple's share up into the double digits.

But your tech-buddies on internet forums (the minority) say the sky is falling.

That's right, Apple doesn't listen to customers and tends to avoid a lot of external feedback. Here are the results:

https://www.macrumors.com/2011/07/19/apple-reports-record-breaking-q3-2011/

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/27/technology/27apple.html?hp

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...nkruptcy-to-become-most-valuable-company.html

And all in the span of little more than a decade.

Listening to consumers has no actual relationship to performance or success. It's a tool, not a necessity. One that is used most often by those who lack vision, are out of ideas, or in the case of MS and a lot of their partners: who want to do some damage control before further embarrassment ensues.

 

[OllyW]

Seems the market keeps buying an inferior OS to the degree that they pushed Apple's share up into the double digits.

Triple digits, it's now up to 6.45%.



http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=8&qpcustomd=0

 

[boss.king]

Who are these people? Your friends here on MR?

MR doesn't in any away represent the market at large.

Seems the market keeps buying an inferior OS to the degree that they pushed Apple's share up into the double digits.

But your tech-buddies on internet forums (the minority) say the sky is falling.

Well if the people buying and using the product can't be trusted then who can? You'd think Mac enthusiast would be able to use it cos, you know, it just works, but from all the people having issues with it, it obviously doesn't just work.

Like I said earlier, just because people buy the OS doesn't make it good software. It's not like they can hop in a time machine and go back to stop themselves. Hell, if sales records were something to go off then Rebecca Black would be an alright singer and Lamborghini would make sub-par cars, but that's not the case. You can cite articles all day long but when it comes down to the bottom line, people are having a lot more trouble with Lion than they have had before, and as a result they dislike the OS.

Apple doesn't listen to customers and tends to avoid a lot of external feedback. Here are the results:

(not the iPod, the HiFi dock, it sucked)
Yeah, they made some bad stuff too, they just hide their failures well.

 

[roadbloc]

Yes. Lion is a failure. What a letdown.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1223463/

http://macdailynews.com/2011/10/01/...b-share-ios-takes-61-58-u-s-mobile-web-share/

http://arstechnica.com/apple/reviews/2011/07/mac-os-x-10-7.ars

So you really think that the people who don't like it haven't bought it? How do you think they know they don't like it if they haven't bought it?

Also, why do you think so many people dislike it? I have never seen such a large amount people dislike a new Apple OS before. True, you do get the usual people who hate upon Apple and them who complain because the hype hasn't lived up to their expectations (which were increased by the hype). But I'm seeing once loyal fans turn up their nose in disgust. I've used Apple's products almost exclusively since Tiger, and I really do not like Lion. Why do you think that is?

 

[wpotere]

So you really think that the people who don't like it haven't bought it? How do you think they know they don't like it if they haven't bought it?

Also, why do you think so many people dislike it? I have never seen such a large amount people dislike a new Apple OS before. True, you do get the usual people who hate upon Apple and them who complain because the hype hasn't lived up to their expectations (which were increased by the hype). But I'm seeing once loyal fans turn up their nose in disgust. I've used Apple's products almost exclusively since Tiger, and I really do not like Lion. Why do you think that is?

I bought it and I don't like it.

 

[*LTD*]

Also, why do you think so many people dislike it? I have never seen such a large amount people dislike a new Apple OS before.

Like who?

All the major reviews of Lion were absolutely glowing. Macs are selling in record numbers. I'm not sure who these people are and in what force of numbers they're complaining (probably not enough to register) and driving a mass downgrade to SL (which isn't happening.)

Yeah, they made some bad stuff too, they just hide their failures well.

Others would kill to have those kinds of "failures." Apple, over the last few years, has destroyed entire competing platforms, nearly drove some competitors out of business or forced them to reset their strategy and can their flagship product(s), and has engineered a massive industry shift. And the best you could do was a mouse, a social feature integrated into iTunes, and an oversized speaker?

 

[tigres]

Like who?

Here are some MR members whom are pretty avid followers one can argue.
Not to just link to my thread, but 32% seem to say "we don't like it".

Here