Yea it hurts to fight win or lose..no one is unscathed physically nor mentally.
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This is not a "Pro" machine.
- Thread starter timehacker11
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Yea it hurts to fight win or lose..no one is unscathed physically nor mentally.
I need to see it before I'll make my judgment. I want to see if you can change the video card or processors in time.
Remember the footprint of machine. Even with a stack of externals it will be smaller than the current Mac pro.
Remember the footprint of machine. Even with a stack of externals it will be smaller than the current Mac pro.
True, however I could throw the old Mac Pro case on the floor somewhere, under a desk, on carpet, in a rack, etc. It seems the new one will need desktop/tabletop space as will most of the peripherals.
I'm not too confident about easily servicing the GPUs/CPU either, though we'll see.
Processors are socketed, so that those would be likely. Good luck changing weird proprietary video card implementations.
I agree, but the "we'll see" mantra has been done to death. Anyone can see much of what they need to know from looking at the box. The only thing that's still up in the air is the actual real world performance.
I am sure the box . . . er, cylinder will perform well, but will it do so with a reasonable price, for the amount of machine and expansion you're getting.
Also, how practical will this device be in certain environments, e.g. university labs and such. If you can't secure it to a desk, then it won't be adopted by anyone that's in EDU that has half a brain.
yeah.. would be good to know
stack of externals?
do any of the following count as externals? : display, keyboard, trackpad/mouse, speakers, hard drive..
because it seems just about everybody has at least that.. you don't even have to leave the forum to see people more/less bragging about using 3 or 4 displays.. then complain about no expansion in the new mac?? i don't get it.
Of course. That's just me sheepishly hedging my bets in the slim likelihood that the opposite turns out to be true.
I'm not sure how you can make the comparison between them. Monitor, keyboard, mouse, etc.? They need to be on the desk. The new design is just adding to that.
Looking at my desk right now there are 3 video monitors, a keyboard, a mouse, a wacom tablet, a pair of pc speakers, a pair of studio monitors, and a phone. Nothing else will fit comfortably.
Historically, what Apple did with the Laserwriter (LW) was to keep a healthy profit margin, which provided the opportunities for 3rd parties to offering their alternatives at lower price points (eg, "better value").
In checking some old history, I see that the Laserwriter II retailed at $6995, although for some reason I personally recall price points of $3200 and $2700...might these have had been the GSA price back then?? In any case, there did become a 3rd party market .. I can remember personally buying a TI-branded Postscript laser printer that was Appletalk capable for "only" $999 in the early 90s.
-hh
I agree on both. I am DEFINITELY hoping the opposite turns out to be true when it comes to price. I'd buy if a dual GPU 6 core model comes in at $2500. Otherwise, I'd have to find a different vendor for my office workstation.
Also, yes, counting the keyboard, mouse and a monitor as an external is moot. What many are talking about is the addition of a box to hold PCIe cards, eSATA adaptors (many of which also needed dedicated power) secondary RAID solutions (since we can't mount inside the case), etc. Some systems require three to four additional PCIe slots, and right now, I've only seen external TBolt enclosures that can hold one.
I am glad we can daisy-chain 6 TBolt devices, but that really means an editor cutting RED One footage will need 5 (FIVE) additional PCIe boxes to go along with the new Mac Pro.
lol.. if you care to upload a pic of your desk with some basic dims, I'll help you find a suitable and comfortable arrangement.
or, is there even the slightest chance that you're simply being stubborn about the whole thing?
The new Mac Pro will make a spectacular rich guy's version of what I use my mini for. The trusty old late 2009 mini soldiers on with 8GB RAM and a 750GB Scorpio Black HD.
Kept up to date as a backup its primary duty is as an EyeTV DVR. It is a little slow editing out commercials (2.66GHz C2D) and HD playback is not faultless even though it seems to record OK.
A new Mac Pro with 16GB of RAM and 512 or 768GB storage running a high-quality 1080 display would be the greatest EyeTV DVR on the planet. Time to buy a lottery ticket!
Kept up to date as a backup its primary duty is as an EyeTV DVR. It is a little slow editing out commercials (2.66GHz C2D) and HD playback is not faultless even though it seems to record OK.
A new Mac Pro with 16GB of RAM and 512 or 768GB storage running a high-quality 1080 display would be the greatest EyeTV DVR on the planet. Time to buy a lottery ticket!
In the Electronic Classroom, everything is secured because students can get in there all day (but they're not Pros in there).
In individual labs? I don't know of a single desktop computer in our building that is individually secured, not a single one. (Of course we do keep every lab locked due to theft of mostly wallets/purses etc.)
Stubborn? No. This desk will simply not allow for any other devices. I even omitted the 2nd keyboard/mouse taking up even more space (it controls the internet computer since my Avid is not connected to the outside world). But if that wasn't there, then the little space it would clear up would go to the Avid keyboard/mouse and Wacom to make them more comfortable to use.
My home studio? Then I have options with furniture and logistics of the room. But that's not the point. I was merely pointing out that the space necessary for the new Mac Pro isn't necessarily reduced based on the newly needed externals and in some cases could be even worse because of the dependance on using deskspace to accommodate them.
But it's silly to bring things like monitors and keyboards into that discussion.
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At the University I occasionally teach at the media labs consist of Mac Pros, Boxx workstations, and Imacs. All are secured to the desks since the students now have 24/7 access. Don't know the situations in other departments though.
the only reason it's moot is because you said so.. with absolutely no logic to back up the statement because as far as i gather, they are 100% without a doubt external components of a computer.. even with the box, people have more external components than internal.
what you're really saying is "i'm used to the way things are and don't want to analyze if it's the proper or most well thought out solution"
you (not only you) are backing the box design with internal storage etc but are failing to realize that the box was not designed with 6 internal hard drives in mind.. it just sort of happened that way and the current box idea is simply a frankenstein/snowball of years and years worth of computers..
but it's entirely possible (well, probable) that we've finally reached a stage, or are going into a stage, where we're comfortable with the amount of computing power we've achieved and are able to begin refining the design that's been around for what, 25years?.. a 25yr old design that was originally conceived for a reason which has nothing to do with this coveted ability to put multiple drives inside..
do you cut red?
Oh come on. You may have an argument, but this is not one of them. No logic? Other than every desktop computer on the planet already needing an external display and input devices? They are completely irrelevant in this discussion.
well then, bummer for you i guess.. this computer fails to provide what you need simply because of space constraints..
(even though last time i checked, it's actually much smaller than the previous iteration and seems to be a more efficient use of space)
the only reason it's silly is because it will make you rethink your idea about what expansion really means.. and it's obvious you're not willing to do that.
i mean, as far as i can tell, the keyboard,mouse,and display are more important and necessary than storage (i.e.- i could have 500TB storage with none of these externals and i'm screwed whereas i could have 1GB storage + a display/keyboard and at least be able to do _something_)
so why is it silly to consider these components and realize they are in fact external expansions..
it's stupid for me to even point out how necessary and how obviously external they are because even the most hardheaded of people already know this... my point is more to do with -- you're already completely comfortable with computer expansion and even welcome it.. so why make such a big deal when it comes to hard drives?
right- computer desks are more/less designed around the box idea.. the desks themselves will be able to evolve more too because there isn't a 60lb block of aluminum to consider.. work space will get better and less cluttered because it now has to accommodate something much smaller..
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fwiw, my main argument in all of this isn't even really an i'm right/you're wrong type of deal.. my personality isn't one of needing to be right so i'm not arguing for that sake..
my main thing is simply encouraging others to be open to shifting their perception/refining ideas/rethinking instead of arguing "this is the way it is now and the way it is now is pure!".. because i really don't think we're anywhere close to pure computing.. we're still cavemen chiseling slate as far as that's concerned..
or, maybe i'm just a dreamer
At a university, that's all a very VERY bad idea. Our labs are usually being used well into the early morning, and our building is locked, but registered students can get in with access cards.
Not securing your tower is an insurance liability, and when one or more goes missing they won't cover the costs. We are talking about multiple labs with 25-40 Mac Pros each.
The large Mac Pro tower isn't as much of a problem. The cylinder design with it's small size is going to be a stretch. Personally, I'd just move our tower systems to iMacs and call it a day.
In the high end market I don't see security being much of an issue at all. In EDU, you can bet they're going to try to take anything they can get their hands on.
Calm down, no one is attacking you or saying your point isn't valid, just that you can't count a keyboard and mouse and monitor as desk clutter . . . . . that actually supports your claim. It's moot to mention those as desk clutter since you're going to need them anyway.
It's wrong to assume that everyone has more external than internal. That's not the case with a lot of people. Many I know just have an iMac on their desk and that's it. Checking the "Picture of your Setup" thread will be a testament to that.
Others in the high end market will have storage options and PCIe cards stored internally on a tower system, making any claims on the contrary moot.
Having an idealistic viewpoint about the change in technology is nice, but isn't the point many are making. We're simply saying that folks will have to change the way they are thinking about buying and implementing a workstation . . . . which is on the same page as you are. We're also mentioning that those with multiple PCIe cards are going to have to either deal with 3-5 more additional PCIe boxes, or buy another system.
Also on the contrary, I've said in other forums that the new Mac Pro is perfect for iMac and rMBP users needing the most power necessary in a Mac. They already have a desk full of externals (as you've said as well and I agree) and won't mind dropping in a new Mac Pro.
Yes, I've cut RED but only offline since I have an iMac. Also, I am very interested in the new Mac Pro if the price is right.
Unknown. The current Mac Pro doesn't have a standard security lock slot either. The open/close latch could swing out a bit for a lock loop. It does look like a simple latch though.
Apple's dropped kennsington locks sockets from just about everything. If there is a demand some bracket solutions will pop up (similar to brackets needed if going to desktop anchor Mac Minis ). For example, something similar to a bike water bottle holder where one of the vertical bars goes over the "open" latch. two vertical bars on the front and a wrap over clamp and done. It isn't hard. Can't? LOL. Only if lacking the set of problem solving skills EDU orgs seem to both lack themselves and being able to teach.
Took all of about 120 seconds to come up with that after looking at myraid of Mac oriented anchoring solutions already out there. I'm sure there is at least a half dozen others.
Are you just selectively reading things? Did you miss the point that the decreased mass of the new machine could possibly be completely negated due to the need of expansion boxes and where one could be limited in placing these items? That's how this entire discussion started.
I just pointed out how it's not an ideal (if even possible) situation in the workspace I'm currently sitting at and that could be commonplace elsewhere. It could certainly work for my home setup (which I'm not ruling out by the way), but it's certainly an issue worth nothing for the studio I work for.
You're just playing a ridiculous game of semantics with this. Sure, keyboard, monitor, etc. are "external" but they have nothing to do with expansion. You cannot operate your computer without them. The expansion required with the new Mac Pro is taking things out of the box and tethering them from the desk or elsewhere. It's foolish to think the logistics of it all don't matter. Oh, we're not open minded enough? That's BS.
Really? I've already pointed out that I've never had my machine on my desk. It's been either on the floor or in a rack. I specifically said that this new design actually creates a need for more desk space or more furniture for me. And that still ignores the fact that all of the true desktop peripherals (monitors, input devices, etc.) aren't going anywhere else.
What you were replying to was a statement about securing these machines to the desks in lab use. We don't know what kind of locking mechanism the new machine will have, but at least from what we can see now it will actually be more difficult to secure in a lot of these rooms.
The new design fits more comfortably on a desk, but it isn't required. It is no more required to be on desk than current one is required to be on the floor.
You'll need to mount it on top of something if putting under desk, but it isn't impossible. On top of something Deskside would probably work better as far a ventilation.
If someone comes out with a Thunderbolt pedestal that something resting on can be useful as a peripheral also .
The current Mac Pro has those big dumb handles. We wrap the locks around those. In the higher end edit suites, they are bolted to the underside of the table.
Additionally in latch to the internals has a locking mechanism to it too, so no one can go inside and swipe your $2500 ProTools HDX cards.
Right about the 3rd party vendor though. There will always be someone filling in a need that's left behind.
lol.. i've come to realize that usually when someone tells me to calm down, they're doing so with good reason..
gonna go eat lunch.. i'll read the rest in a bit.
lol.. i've come to realize that usually when someone tells me to calm down, they're doing so with good reason..
gonna go eat lunch.. i'll read the rest in a bit.
Same here. Sometimes I read posts as if they have an attitude but of course we cant deduce inflection and such in texts.
And I too get antsy if I haven't eaten. Typing this up in Qdoba right now.
In the end, for me, the new Mac Pro will come down to price and performance for that price. I am holding out for Apple to price it competitively.
Not particularly secure if can just flip open the latch to the lid and walk away with the components that are the most valuable part.
Right and that locking mechanism is 3rd party product.
Just like there is now. It will likely bring some new mechanisms to the market but bolting Macs to tables never was something that Apple did before .... so what is really so different now?
Not the latch that I am referring to. The latch on the back of the Mac Pro is built in.
Yes, but I am not talking about bolting it to the table, I am talking about providing a way to chain (for lack of a better word) the Mac to a table via a security cable, and a way to lock the case up so no one can get inside.
Both options always been available in Mac towers since the Beige G3.