This is not a "Pro" machine.

[honam1021]

And a computer I cannot upgrade.

For the same price as the iMac, I can get something that has double the power AND can be upgraded overtime meaning that I'll always get the latest parts. Once you get the iMac, your screwed into purchasing another $1299+ computer in a few years when you could have just spent $100 - $350 on a new graphics card / processor.

And don't say "just get it because it's an iMac." iMacs use the same damn parts as other computers, and probably cost a whole lot less for Apple to purchase due to bulk purchasing, meaning Apple makes hand over fist money by screwing their customers into purchasing non-upgradable computers.

They're doing the same with the Mac Pro. Apple doesn't want pros upgrading internal parts because they won't have to buy thunderbolt to do so. Thunderbolt is even more money into Apple's pocket. Why do you think there's six thunderbolt ports? That's an extra $234 JUST in thunderbolt cables.

You can update it by yourself (Although you'll void your warranty), unless Apple choose to solder everything onto a single PCB and you have to replace everything if one of them fail

Just take a look at this video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tNrfO-DqwA

 

[OS6-OSX]

Anyway, I'll book the flight if you are confident that you can show me 2000MB/second flowing through two Thunderbolt ports to/from a single volume, because until that point, my 2009 Mac Pro is much faster.

Is it my imagination or are you one of the few folks that actually speak in real world numbers? A great % of these posters speak in the abstract! "If you are a Pro you should not be afraid of change and should be able to do this and that!" "Just adjust your work flow for this and that!" WOW!
Here is a test. Someone show playing/editing R3D 5k files (multicam if you can do it) with a Raid based on PCIe. Show the Write & Read numbers of the PCIe raid using AJA and BMD. Then show the numbers with the Raid card in a TB2 box. Based on the Card being in the box, will editing the same amount of 5k files be possible?
The objective is to show that it can be quite possible to not be able to perform the exact task based on slower numbers. Yes, the card is now in the TB box and look at that new MP 6.1, but will you end up saying WTF!

 

[Pakaku]

Yea you can use externals for main storage, but having lots of externals laying around can get cluttery. With six thunderbolt ports, that can ad up fast. Plus each port can be daisy chained so it could go even more.

Wow, that would be terrible! Thank goodness this new Mac Pro has a smaller footprint.

 

[Radiating]

http://www.tomshardware.com/picturestory/623-17-thunderbolt-performance-5big.html

These guys threw everything they had at Thunderbolt, and only got 1300MB/second tops out of it. If you can get 2000MB+/second from your external Thunderbolt expansion box, you should write up a nice article and show the world how it's done.

Thunderbolt 1 is 10 GB/s, so naturally it will top out right around 1300 MB/s. You have to be running some crazy hardware to get 2000 MB/s from 16 drives. I'm getting 100 MB/s from WD black drives for a directory copy and I can run 14 of those over thunderbolt 1 without a slow down.

Thunderbolt 2 should allow for 2600MB/s though.

 

[wonderspark]

Is it my imagination or are you one of the few folks that actually speak in real world numbers? A great % of these posters speak in the abstract! "If you are a Pro you should not be afraid of change and should be able to do this and that!" "Just adjust your work flow for this and that!" WOW!
Here is a test. Someone show playing/editing R3D 5k files (multicam if you can do it) with a Raid based on PCIe. Show the Write & Read numbers of the PCIe raid using AJA and BMD. Then show the numbers with the Raid card in a TB2 box. Based on the Card being in the box, will editing the same amount of 5k files be possible?
The objective is to show that it can be quite possible to not be able to perform the exact task based on slower numbers. Yes, the card is now in the TB box and look at that new MP 6.1, but will you end up saying WTF!

Exactly. I'm not into 'should be able'. If I load up some video layers across Thunderbolt, it has to play smoothly, just like it does for me now across mini-SAS. When my demands increase with future video work, it also has to be able to meet that higher demand.

I'm excited to see what Thunderbolt can really do, so hopefully I'm proven wrong in Los Angeles this week! I haven't been back to my hometown in a while, so even if the TB speeds are no faster than I've seen elsewhere, at least I get to see some of my old friends, and meet some new ones.

----------

Thunderbolt 1 is 10 GB/s, so naturally it will top out right around 1300 MB/s. You have to be running some crazy hardware to get 2000 MB/s from 16 drives. I'm getting 100 MB/s from WD black drives for a directory copy and I can run 14 of those over thunderbolt 1 without a slow down.

Thunderbolt 2 should allow for 2600MB/s though.

Well, I'll be looking forward to seeing the 1300MB barrier come crashing down!

 

[OS6-OSX]

If you two connect, do this as a "MacForums Favor", post it on YouTube and place a link here. And that's regardless of the results. If TB shows the great numbers, let them be seen.
Another thing some posters don't take into account is the added expense. It's like, "I'm already doing "X" and after I purchase the TB box (because of the MP 6.1) I'm still just doing "X"!

 

[wonderspark]

Good news!

I just got an address and a date for Tuesday. I plan to bring a camera to record the result, because as far as I know, this will be the first documentation of Thunderbolt moving more than 1300MB/sec... and it sounds like this will do more than 2000MB/sec, so it will be a world premiere!

I'm seriously quite excited for this.

----------

He says cameras are forbidden, so it looks like I'll have to capture a screenshot of the test running. Kind of a drag, but even if the world thinks the image is doctored, at least *I'll* know it's authentic.

 

[Jedi Master]

Front end vs Back end

I can't understand why Apple is calling a non-expandable, no disc drive machine a "Pro" machine.

"Pro's", aka Professionals, do NOT want external expansion boxes cluttering their desk just because Apple deems it necessary to not allow people to expand it's internal components. ("expansion is external")

Professional users also want to burn media (videos, photos, etc) to DVDs and Blu Rays. Now, on top of a ~$3000+ machine, they have to purchase an additional external drive just to do that. Apple is not gonna undercut the price of the high end ridiculously priced 15" rMBP. ($2799)

Don't get me started on the internal storage. WHY can Pros NOT expand the internal storage? Yes, there are external drives, but when it comes down to it, it's yet ANOTHER external expansion box, cluttering an already cluttered desk.

Front end computer, place in front of user (you)
Back end storage, place in closet or remotely think cloud


This is the way it Will be for the most part on all platforms as it should be.


You'll go to a front end unit attach/plug in a personality chip and have access to all your programs and data at Any workstation/terminal. Terminal yep just like the 70's

Besides a new pro and nas would take up less space than a current Mac Pro.

Don't like I understand, blame faster connection technology and the Internet

 

[macz1]

It makes perfectly sense to attach mass storage / large data archives externally. What I really miss is:

- A second internal drive in order to have dedicated internal boot volumes for OSX and Windows. I don't like partitioning and putting both OSes on the same drive. Sometimes I move my MP and I like is the fact that all I need is already inside the box...

- GPUs ? This is a component which is likely to get out of date relatively soon compared to the rest of the machine.
It just started to get interesting with more and more PC graphics cards being more or less compatible to the mac pro. Now even PCIe GPUs will have to be connected and powered externally...
Or you have to hope for apple to release up-to-date upgrade options in its proprietary form factor (for 1.8x the price and 1.8 years later than the rest of the world I'm afraid)

 

[theluggage]

I still won't own a laptop without an optical drive.

Funny - I don't think I'll buy another laptop with an optical drive, having had 2-3 laptops and one media PC in which the optical drives failed after 6-12 months.

I also still own a floppy drive for flashing BIOS'

Good for you - keep it in the cupboard next to the old PC that can't boot from a USB stick, or the really old one that can't boot from a floppy image on a CD-R.

 

[theluggage]

- A second internal drive in order to have dedicated internal boot volumes for OSX and Windows.

I'd agree with that - also, the thing most likely to reduce in price/increase in capacity over the next year or two is SSD, so it would be good to have space for one more stick. For what its worth, on the prototype photos there appear to be tracks on the second GPU PCB for another SSD connector - whether it would actually work, only the designers know.

I don't like partitioning and putting both OSes on the same drive.

That's the sort of thing Intel's thunderbolt memory stick would be useful for, it it ever sees the light of day.

Sometimes I move my MP and I like is the fact that all I need is already inside the box...

To be fair - I switched to a MacBook Pro after nearly crocking myself heaving my Mac Pro into the car. I'd much rather move a New Pro and a hard drive - you could probably fit the lot into a decent shoulder bag.

- GPUs ? This is a component which is likely to get out of date relatively soon compared to the rest of the machine.

The sort of GPUs they are talking about are probably going to represent 2/3 the cost of the machine, and there's likely to be an updated CPU by then anyway. You're not spending money on a big metal box full of PCIe connectors and drive bays. It might make more economic sense to sell on your old machine and buy new. If you can get 1/3 of the purchase price back to spend on this year's model then you're probably ahead of the game.

 

[GermanyChris]

Funny - I don't think I'll buy another laptop with an optical drive, having had 2-3 laptops and one media PC in which the optical drives failed after 6-12 months.



Good for you - keep it in the cupboard next to the old PC that can't boot from a USB stick, or the really old one that can't boot from a floppy image on a CD-R.

Very few BIOS' can be flashed with a USB has nothing to do with booting.

 

[Macsonic]

Another consideration is the expected lifespan for the user to hang on with the new 2013 Mac Pro since this is less upgradeable. In my opinion the new Mac Pro is more of a high spec Mac Mini. Maybe Apple wants users to buy new machines every 2 years. This will depend on the pricing if this is viable. And also we may factor the durability and cost of repairs since the parts are built in and proprietary once the warranty runs out.

 

[derbothaus]

[/COLOR]He says cameras are forbidden, so it looks like I'll have to capture a screenshot of the test running. Kind of a drag, but even if the world thinks the image is doctored, at least *I'll* know it's authentic.

I think we, at least, will believe you going as far as this for a test result
The follow through is impressive in this thread. So out of character with web.

 

[freejazz-man]

Oh yes they do!!! Read these forums and you'll see!!

so what makes you a pro besides the fact that you don't like the new mac pro?

 

[Transeau]

He says cameras are forbidden, so it looks like I'll have to capture a screenshot of the test running. Kind of a drag, but even if the world thinks the image is doctored, at least *I'll* know it's authentic.

Sorry for that... but look up the address and you will understand why. and please don't post where you are going to the public.

And for the rest - I'm going to demo an in-house designed array. Each box as 48 600GB SAS 15k drives, 192GB cache, and two custom 1.2Ghz PPC based RAID SoC controllers. and I can assure you that they will max out both TB busses that they are attached to, and seeing that the controllers are only running at about 30% load, I'm betting they won't have an issue maxing out TB2.

I'm looking forward to putting this issue to rest tomorrow. All of these "real world" tests that are being done with the "average-joe" hardware is a joke. "Pro's" don't use Promise or LaCie boxes. And as I said before... "Pro's" don't have an issue with $20k arrays.

Sorry guys, Editing a wedding video, even if you do it for a living, doesn't make you a Pro. Unless you are booked for Beiber's wedding...

 

[echoout]

so what makes you a pro besides the fact that you don't like the new mac pro?

Gettin' money with a mouse and a Wacom pen.

FWIW, I've loved my G4s, G5s and Mac Pros up until a few years ago. I'll continue doing preproduction on my MBP and will still be knee-deep in Mac Cult-ery. Just sitting out their workstations for a bit. I've got jobs brewing even if I wanted to wait, so I'm moving on... for now.

----------

I'm looking forward to putting this issue to rest tomorrow. All of these "real world" tests that are being done with the "average-joe" hardware is a joke. "Pro's" don't use Promise or LaCie boxes. And as I said before... "Pro's" don't have an issue with $20k arrays.

Sorry guys, Editing a wedding video, even if you do it for a living, doesn't make you a Pro. Unless you are booked for Beiber's wedding...

Well, la-dee-DAH! Look who's on his high horse. You probably wear a monocle, DON'T you??!!! Yeah you do.

 

[wonderspark]

The facility in question for this test is indeed one of the top places on Earth for maximizing the limits of Thunderbolt or any data medium. I've seen what NCSA is capable of, but they use InfiniBand for their supercomputers instead of Thunderbolt, but this place is nice.

 

[subsonix]

The facility in question for this test is indeed one of the top places on Earth for maximizing the limits of Thunderbolt or any data medium.

Is it Facebook?

I've seen what NCSA is capable of, but they use InfiniBand for their supercomputers instead of Thunderbolt, but this place is nice.

Infiniband is not necessarily faster than Thunderbolt. They seem to use SDR and QDR, the latter at 32 Gbit/s for GPU clusters, from what I have found.

 

[echoout]

this place is nice.

The Applebee's at Foothill and Haven?

 

[wonderspark]

I will not tell where it is, until I'm given express permission to do so.

Frankly, this opportunity is humbling, even more so than some of the people I've worked with in the past, such as Jay Leno and Hal Needham. I feel incredibly lucky.

Also, due to a problem on MY end (not his), we are postponing it to *next* Tuesday. I missed tonight's flights out to Los Angeles and cannot get there in time tomorrow morning, and his schedule does not open until the following week.

 

[MacVidCards]

Frankly, this opportunity is humbling, even more so than some of the people I've worked with in the past, such as Jay Leno and Hal Needham. I feel incredibly lucky.

Jay Leno owes me a 245/50/ZR16 tire !!!

I was once working on a BAD TV Movie and had my assistant driving my car to set. We were heading South on Laurel Canyon and making left on Ventura Blvd. Jonathan screamed out "Oh my god, it's Jay Leno!" and loosened his grip on the steering wheel just long enough to crash into the curb in front of Ralph's.

We were late to set.

I have seen Jay one other time on Hollywood Way, he was driving an old steam powered car in regular traffic. The hair, the jaw, and a car poofing out steam. I guess I forgave him then.

Looking forward to some hard and fast numbers.

 

[wonderspark]

Jay Leno owes me a 245/50/ZR16 tire !!!

I was once working on a BAD TV Movie and had my assistant driving my car to set. We were heading South on Laurel Canyon and making left on Ventura Blvd. Jonathan screamed out "Oh my god, it's Jay Leno!" and loosened his grip on the steering wheel just long enough to crash into the curb in front of Ralph's.

We were late to set.

I have seen Jay one other time on Hollywood Way, he was driving an old steam powered car in regular traffic. The hair, the jaw, and a car poofing out steam. I guess I forgave him then.

Looking forward to some hard and fast numbers.

These were taken in 2007. He's incredibly sharp, and a really fun guy in person.
(I shaved my head in support of a friend undergoing chemo for cancer... I like to think it helped, since she beat it!)

Maybe when I'm out there, I can swing by your shop. I might end up going home with a new GPU...

 

[echoout]

Frankly, this opportunity is humbling, even more so than some of the people I've worked with in the past, such as Jay Leno and Hal Needham. I feel incredibly lucky.

Hal Needham! Rad!

 

[wonderspark]

Hal Needham! Rad!

He *is* rad. Somewhere, I have a photo with him, too.

Also rad is the stunt crew he brought with him, led by Bobby Ore. The photo on that page was taken by my coworker. I was right in front of him with a video camera. Bobby told us not to run away when that truck approached the camera crew. It looked like he was going to mow us all down, and everyone fled except me as he stopped a cool two feet from my camera. He yelled something like, "Marcus here is the only one that isn't a p_ssy!" I think I was just stupid.