My assumption would be that the new display engine, along with the brightness symbol, would correlate to the new native NITS brightness that is achieved.
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Other This is why I will not buy iPhone 12: OLED = PWM
- Thread starter lillo9546
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I've preferred Apple products for over 10 years, but am being forced to switch due to PWM. I use an iPhone XR with no issues, but the iPhone 12 gives me migraines. I use a 2015 MacBook Pro with no issues, but the current MacBooks give me migraines. Please, Apple, find ways to eliminate PWM from your devices!!
The 13 pro is causing me migraine-like issues for me coming from an X, which I still have and experience no problems with. It's night and day. I got a 12 pro to see if it did the same, and that's doing the same thing to me. I don't know if it's PWM issue or what, but it's not fun.
I'd describe it as: dull headache behind my eyes that comes on pretty quickly when using the phone. It progresses into dizziness, nausea and just general feeling like garbage. I tried changing every setting I could think of (limit frame rate, reduce motion, true tone, white point, brightness, etc.- can't seem to work around it.
X is 100% fine.
Anyone else having this experience? Really, really sucks. Not really sure what to do about it. I just got my vision checked, going to go to a doc. But it's so weird that X is fine.
I'd describe it as: dull headache behind my eyes that comes on pretty quickly when using the phone. It progresses into dizziness, nausea and just general feeling like garbage. I tried changing every setting I could think of (limit frame rate, reduce motion, true tone, white point, brightness, etc.- can't seem to work around it.
X is 100% fine.
Anyone else having this experience? Really, really sucks. Not really sure what to do about it. I just got my vision checked, going to go to a doc. But it's so weird that X is fine.
Get rid of the phone. You’ve already diagnosed the problem. No need to waste time & money on a doctor. You want to be prescribed pills? (That won’t work)
I fear I will have to return the 13 Pro.
The 13 Pro's display is Samsung, right? I wonder if the LG display on the 13 is any different, even though on paper it should be the same. I wish I could find easily to try.
The 13 Pro's display is Samsung, right? I wonder if the LG display on the 13 is any different, even though on paper it should be the same. I wish I could find easily to try.
I just recently ordered an iPhone 12, but I cancelled it, due to PWM concerns. I think I'll get the 11.
The Doctor won't be able to help you (he probably won't have any idea what you're talking about unless he's a vestibular specialist) - you have a sensitivity to PWM on the 13 Pro which is messing with your balance / ocular system. If you ignore the symptoms, you might possibly go on to cause more permanent damage.
It sucks, and Apple have evidently no interest in addressing the problem, but at least there are older phones which don't use this technology.
I've tried the 13 Pro Max and 13, having come from a 12 Pro Max that caused me no issues (I think).
The Pro Max gave me the worst eye strain I've ever experienced. The 13 made me feel nauseous and is the first phone to ever to do that to me. I've still got the 13 and am sending it back to Apple, tried it again last night to be sure and it made me feel ill for the rest of the night. Really awful!
I've resorted to going back to the 12 Pro Max (wish I'd never sold it). Luckily, my network provider still has some in stock and I've got one arriving tomorrow. I'm going to monitor how I get on with it now that I'm aware of the potential issues, but I'm expecting it to be fine based on past experience. We'll see.
If I notice eye strain or headaches with the 12 Pro Max (which I might've been getting before without realising), I'm just going to keep using the 11 I've got right now.
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If PWM is the culprit, I'd expect to have PWM issues on my X, on my iPad pro 12.9" 3rd gen, or 11" my inch iPad pro as well, which are all (I think) Samsung OLED as well. All are fine for me at any brightness level.
You're probably right that the doc won't be helpful.
The symptoms go away after a day of no use (I do experience a "PWM hangover"). It's probably wise to listen to my body and pushing through the symptoms could be a bad idea, but has anyone tried? Maybe it's possible to get used to it.
Not all PWM is the same - different people seem to have sensitivities for certain frequencies and intensities.
I 'pushed through' on one old LED laptop which had PWM - in the end it worked by little and often..but the symptoms on these new OLED devices are far worse, and I have had more permanent symptoms.
Anyway up to you, that's just my advice *shrug*
Honestly, this is one of the many reasons why I ordered an iPhone 11. I've been on Android the past couple years, so I think the 11 will be a great way to dive back into iOS.
The same as those you describe, along with some balance issues - they have improved with vestibular training.
Update: I have been able to pretty much move past my issues on the 13 pro. I'm mostly able to use the phone normally now, sometimes a very slight headache. I am not sure if my body just eventually adjusted to the screen, or other factors changed, or a combination. I'm not sure if the issue was truly PWM, or some other issue(s). I was definitely getting very uncomfortable burning behind eyes/migraine symptoms on the 13 pro initially, as well as on the 12 pro and 13. X was fine.
Over the last few weeks I tried gradually push my discomfort daily by using 13 Pro to just expose my body with the intent to hopefully create adjustment. When it went beyond mild discomfort, I backed off and went back to my old phone until I felt OK. I don't know if this was medically wise and I don't necessarily recommend it, but I tried it. I also made some other changes, such as cutting way back on caffeine and trying to reduce stress/anxiety.
Anyway, just wanted to share my update, as I would have liked to have seen such an update from others before when deciding how to proceed myself in this situation.
Over the last few weeks I tried gradually push my discomfort daily by using 13 Pro to just expose my body with the intent to hopefully create adjustment. When it went beyond mild discomfort, I backed off and went back to my old phone until I felt OK. I don't know if this was medically wise and I don't necessarily recommend it, but I tried it. I also made some other changes, such as cutting way back on caffeine and trying to reduce stress/anxiety.
Anyway, just wanted to share my update, as I would have liked to have seen such an update from others before when deciding how to proceed myself in this situation.
Sorry to revive an old thread/post, but is there any way for us to find out for sure if temporal dithering is used on Apple LCD phones such as the SE models? Some of the diagnostic apps out there show that the SE has a 24 bit display- would that mean it can handle the high number of colors without any dithering, or is it calling it 24 bit because it uses dithering to achieve those colors?
The bit depth claimed is perceived. If temporal dithering creates ‘billions’ of colors, that’s the claimed bit depth of the display.
Temporal dithering isn’t something Apple wants to talk about, same with PWM.
Temporal dithering isn’t something Apple wants to talk about, same with PWM.
Ok, thanks- that is what I was suspecting.
Are OLED displays able to naturally display more colors than LCD, with no need for temporal dithering? I was just curious if Apple OLED displays- though they have PWM bothering some people- may not have temporal dithering, which could be a benefit for those who may be sensitive to that but not the PWM flicker?
I ask because I know that Notebookcheck verified the 14 Pro does not have temporal dithering, so I was thinking that may apply to the 13 series as well, or maybe all other oled phones- but of course have not found any testing to verify that.