This thing really disgusts me about Apple

[aristobrat]

In that case, Apple can't claim that they sell new technology or cutting edge technology in their marketing.

But Apple DOES sell new technology. And Apple sells old technology.

Your point is that Apple marketing claims that they ONLY sell new technology?

Please provide evidence of such marketing.
[doublepost=1466539546][/doublepost]

It shouldn't be on sale at all. It's deceptive and dishonest. Apple is better than this nonsense marketing trick. Maybe look at it that way.

Or maybe you could look at it the way most consumers do.

If you go to Apple's website and click on Mac > MacBook Pro, all of the marketing is clearly for the MacBook Pro with Retina Display. The MacBook Pro (no Retina Display) isn't mentioned at all.

And then when you go to the "Buy" tab, Apple lists the 13" MBP w/ Retina first, the 15" MBP w/ Retina second, and literally the very last thing listed is the 13" MBP (no Retina Display).

It's the very last thing on the page.

Last.

Bottom of the page.

Consumers looking for a 13" MBP aren't even likely to see it as an option, because it's listed UNDER the 15" MBP w/ Retina choices. When you're looking at the Buy options for 13' MBP w/ Retina displays, you can't even freaking see the non-retina model as a purchase option because it's so much further down on the page.

Being deceptive or dishonest would be to mix it in with the 13" MBP w/ Retina displays.

Apple isn't doing that.

 

[smacrumon]

But Apple DOES sell new technology. And Apple sells old technology.

Your point is that Apple marketing claims that they ONLY sell new technology?

Please provide evidence of such marketing.
[doublepost=1466539546][/doublepost]
Or maybe you could look at it the way most consumers do.

If you go to Apple's website and click on Mac > MacBook Pro, all of the marketing is clearly for the MacBook Pro with Retina Display. The MacBook Pro (no Retina Display) isn't mentioned at all.

And then when you go to the "Buy" tab, Apple lists the 13" MBP w/ Retina first, the 15" MBP w/ Retina second, and literally the very last thing listed is the 13" MBP (no Retina Display).

It's the very last thing on the page.

Last.

Bottom of the page.

Consumers looking for a 13" MBP aren't even likely to see it as an option, because it's listed UNDER the 15" MBP w/ Retina choices. When you're looking at the Buy options for 13' MBP w/ Retina displays, you can't even freaking see the non-retina model as a purchase option because it's so much further down on the page.

Being deceptive or dishonest would be to mix it in with the 13" MBP w/ Retina displays.

Apple isn't doing that.

When in store, the MacBook Pro (no Retina Display) is on show next to brand new devices. This implies the device is also new, instead the real story is that the device is four years old. It is also across many places on the site, including "Other models" on the MacBook Pro page and listed on http://www.apple.com/mac/compare/

 

[aristobrat]

When in store, the MacBook Pro (no Retina Display) is on show next to brand new devices.

Not in the Apple online store I'm currently looking at.

Here's the first screenful showing the 13 rMBPs. I don't see the non-retina one listed next to them.

So let's scroll down another huge screenful to get to the 15 rMBPs. Still don't see it listed next to anything.

I had to scroll all the way down past the 15 rMBPs to find the 13 MBP (non retina). Basically, if you're looking for a 13 MBP, you have to go out of your way to find the non-retina one listed at the bottom.

 

[smacrumon]

But Apple DOES sell new technology. And Apple sells old technology.

Your point is that Apple marketing claims that they ONLY sell new technology?

Please provide evidence of such marketing.
[doublepost=1466539546][/doublepost]
Or maybe you could look at it the way most consumers do.

If you go to Apple's website and click on Mac > MacBook Pro, all of the marketing is clearly for the MacBook Pro with Retina Display. The MacBook Pro (no Retina Display) isn't mentioned at all.

And then when you go to the "Buy" tab, Apple lists the 13" MBP w/ Retina first, the 15" MBP w/ Retina second, and literally the very last thing listed is the 13" MBP (no Retina Display).

It's the very last thing on the page.

Last.

Bottom of the page.

Consumers looking for a 13" MBP aren't even likely to see it as an option, because it's listed UNDER the 15" MBP w/ Retina choices. When you're looking at the Buy options for 13' MBP w/ Retina displays, you can't even freaking see the non-retina model as a purchase option because it's so much further down on the page.

Being deceptive or dishonest would be to mix it in with the 13" MBP w/ Retina displays.

Apple isn't doing that.

This is just one simple example of the Apple nonsense hyperbole about making the "best products" -- which isn't the case. More like packaged up four year old rubbish waiting for the unsuspecting customer to buy.
"Apple has always stood for building the best products on Earth that enrich people's lives."
https://www.macrumors.com/2016/05/03/tim-cook-cnbc-interview-part-2/
[doublepost=1466540727][/doublepost]

Not in the Apple online store I'm currently looking at.

Here's the first screenful showing the 13 rMBPs. I don't see the non-retina one listed next to them.

View attachment 637257

So let's scroll down another huge screenful to get to the 15 rMBPs. Still don't see it listed next to anything.

View attachment 637260

I had to scroll all the way down past the 15 rMBPs to find the 13 MBP (non retina). Basically, if you're looking for a 13 MBP, you have to go out of your way to find the non-retina one listed at the bottom.

Nope. It's there on the site.

 

[aristobrat]

I don't see it (the non-retina) listed on their site when I go to Mac > MacBook Pro > Tech Specs (which is precisely where it SHOULD be if Apple were trying to deceive people into buying it).

I'm sure there are references to it (like on the Buy screen), but if you go in to research Macs, and then click on MacBook Pro, I don't see any marketing material for it (like I do for the MacBook Pro w/ Retina Display).

 

[C DM]

This is just one simple example of the Apple nonsense hyperbole about making the "best products" -- which isn't the case. More like packaged up four year old rubbish waiting for the unsuspecting customer to buy.
"Apple has always stood for building the best products on Earth that enrich people's lives."
https://www.macrumors.com/2016/05/03/tim-cook-cnbc-interview-part-2/
[doublepost=1466540727][/doublepost]
Nope. It's there on the site.

It's marketing/advertising, what else is suddenly new or surprising about that?

 

[Phoenixx]

I agree with you. Looking over the Apple products that are currently for sale we find the following woefully outdated products:

• Thunderbolt monitor - hasn't been updated in 1741 days (nearly 5 years) - costs $999
• Mac Pro - hasn't been updated in 915 days (nearly 3 years) - costs between $2999 and $9599 depending on the configuration.

We also find:

• 21.5" iMac - more recently updated, but hardly a "new" model like Apple's website claims. Entry level models have gimped processors. The entire range has 5400 speed hard drives (tech brought in for iMacs around ten years ago, and no discrete GPU options.
• 27" iMac - again shows as a new model, despite not having been updated in 252 days.

Apple seems to be VERY good at selling outdated tech, while simultaneously claiming they have both invented it themselves, and that they are at the cutting edge. Even the iPhone is rocking a 2 core processor and 2 gb of ram and 16 gb of storage, while almost every other flagship cellphone out there has an 8 core processor, 4gb of ram and 32 gb of storage. People will argue that iOS needs less resources, but that doesn't change the fact that the tech in the iPhone is woefully outdated (imagine just how fast and amazing an iPhone with 8 cores, more ram and more storage would be). It's like Apple is thinking they can get away with selling antiquated tech and no one will notice.

 

[smacrumon]

I don't see it (the non-retina) listed on their site when I go to Mac > MacBook Pro > Tech Specs (which is precisely where it SHOULD be if Apple were trying to deceive people into buying it).

I'm sure there are references to it (like on the Buy screen), but if you go in to research Macs, and then click on MacBook Pro, I don't see any marketing material for it (like I do for the MacBook Pro w/ Retina Display).

View attachment 637261

As I pictured above, and on this page above accessories
http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs-retina/

On this page
http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/

On this page
http://www.apple.com/mac/compare/

On the buy page
http://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro

On the configure page
http://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro?product=MD101LL/A&step=config
(Ha! More processor power and more RAM for more $$$. Come on Apple... )

 

[I7guy]

I agree with you. Looking over the Apple products that are currently for sale we find the following woefully outdated products:

• Thunderbolt monitor - hasn't been updated in 1741 days (nearly 5 years) - costs $999
• Mac Pro - hasn't been updated in 915 days (nearly 3 years) - costs between $2999 and $9599 depending on the configuration.

We also find:

• 21.5" iMac - more recently updated, but hardly a "new" model like Apple's website claims. Entry level models have gimped processors. The entire range has 5400 speed hard drives (tech brought in for iMacs around ten years ago, and no discrete GPU options.
• 27" iMac - again shows as a new model, despite not having been updated in 252 days.

Apple seems to be VERY good at selling outdated tech, while simultaneously claiming they have both invented it themselves, and that they are at the cutting edge. Even the iPhone is rocking a 2 core processor and 2 gb of ram and 16 gb of storage, while almost every other flagship cellphone out there has an 8 core processor, 4gb of ram and 32 gb of storage. People will argue that iOS needs less resources, but that doesn't change the fact that the tech in the iPhone is woefully outdated (imagine just how fast and amazing an iPhone with 8 cores, more ram and more storage would be). It's like Apple is thinking they can get away with selling antiquated tech and no one will notice.

Well either one of two options: most people don't care or it's a bunch of hyperbole; eg much ado about nothing.

 

[aristobrat]

As I pictured above, and on this page above accessories
http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs-retina/

Like I said, there are references to it on the website.

IMO, the average person looking for more info about MacBook Pros is going to:
1. goto http://www.apple.com
2. click on Macs
3. Click on MacBook Pro

... where they aren't going to find the non-retina MacBook Pro described or mentioned on the MacBook Pro Features sub-page, which is the main page that spends all sorts of time describing the MacBook Pro w/ Retinal Display.

They also aren't going to find the non-retina mentioned on the MacBook Pro Design sub-page.

And no mention or reference to a non-retina model on the MacBook Pro Performance sub-page, either.

Probably wouldn't surprise you that it's not mentioned on the new two sub-pages (OS X or Built-in Apps) either.

The first reference to it comes at literally the bottom section of the Tech Specs sub-page. And guess what... It's labeled under "Other Models". As in "Not the MacBook Pros w/ Retina Display that we've been talking about in detail over the last 4 pages, ... no, this model is something different..."

So if you're trying to make the point that Apple is "marketing" the non-retina display MBP to purposely deceive and be dishonest, and after all of the glam and glitz they put on the MacBook Pro with Retina Display on their website, your best example is of a reference that is buried at the bottom of the tech specs and buy webpages... where anyone looking at 13" MBP options literally wouldn't even see it, ... really?

 

[smacrumon]

Like I said, there are references to it on the website.

IMO, the average person looking for more info about MacBook Pros is going to:
1. goto http://www.apple.com
2. click on Macs
3. Click on MacBook Pro

... where they aren't going to find the non-retina MacBook Pro described or mentioned on the MacBook Pro Features sub-page, which is the main page that spends all sorts of time describing the MacBook Pro w/ Retinal Display.

They also aren't going to find the non-retina mentioned on the MacBook Pro Design sub-page.

And no mention or reference to a non-retina model on the MacBook Pro Performance sub-page, either.

Probably wouldn't surprise you that it's not mentioned on the new two sub-pages (OS X or Built-in Apps) either.

The first reference to it comes at literally the bottom section of the Tech Specs sub-page. And guess what... It's labeled under "Other Models". As in "Not the MacBook Pros w/ Retina Display that we've been talking about in detail over the last 4 pages, ... no, this model is something different..."

So if you're trying to make the point that Apple is "marketing" the non-retina display MBP to purposely deceive and be dishonest, and after all of the glam and glitz they put on the MacBook Pro with Retina Display on their website, your best example is of a reference that is buried at the bottom of the tech specs and buy webpages... where anyone looking at 13" MBP options literally wouldn't even see it, ... really?

It's on the compare website as well. It's hardly comparable. People do browser searches, they don't necessarily come to the Apple site in such a linear and orderly fashion. The fact is it is still there, has ridiculous upgrade options, and ridiculous pricing, and it's been on the shelf in stores set along the newest of the newest models for four years and hasn't been upgraded for four years. Disgraceful. Embarrassing. This is thinking stupid, not different. Apple doesn't need to stink but it chooses to stink and it stinks very badly.

 

[mmomega]

The issue here is " a person" is projecting what he/she values onto a company and expecting what he/she thinks is what that company should be doing and that all other people around them expect the same thing, if the company doesn't fall within those values then it is wrong.

 

[aristobrat]

It's on the compare website as well.

Sure, it's a purchase option, so it should be on the compare page. This page makes it obvious that it doesn't have a Retina Display, gets three hours less battery life, doesn't have a flash storage option, and weighs a pound more.

One of your rants was about how Apple was being dishonest and deceptive about how they market the non-retina model.

They've basically done all they can to hide it on their website, IMO. There is no "marketing" for it. There are facts and specs (if you go out of your way to look for them) but Apple has none of their usual marketing glitz and spin for this product. They don't even dedicate a simple paragraph to "highlight" the fact that it has built-in Ethernet and SuperDrive.

And even if you come in via a non-linear method (i.e. some weird search result), they have the 13" non-Retina model essentially hidden at the bottom of the Buy page. You literally have to scroll through every 13" and 15" Retina model before you'll find the non-Retina model listed down at the bottom. This is being deceptive? Seriously?

 

[thats all folks]

It's on the compare website as well. It's hardly comparable. People do browser searches, they don't necessarily come to the Apple site in such a linear and orderly fashion. The fact is it is still there, has ridiculous upgrade options, and ridiculous pricing, and it's been on the shelf in stores set along the newest of the newest models for four years and hasn't been upgraded for four years. Disgraceful. Embarrassing. This is thinking stupid, not different. Apple doesn't need to stink but it chooses to stink and it stinks very badly.

okay dude, we get it, you are the lone warrior, out to right a grievous injustice. or maybe you are some lonely kid looking for attention. or maybe you are just off your meds. just like every other company on the planet, Apple can sell whatever they want. you can buy or not buy it. most all selling is done with misdirection and deception, with abuse of language, with stretching the truth and sometimes even outright lying. that is the way of the world. that is what people do to each other. Apple isn't innocent, hardly anyone is. and does it even matter? people make terrible and emotional decisions all the time. something as blatant as the facts will rarely change their minds. move on.

 

[sartrekid]

...

http://www.techradar.com/news/mobil...lly-phases-out-its-oldest-macbook-pro-1323738

 

[skinned66]

The specs for the prices are why I haven't bought a Mac in over 5 years. I don't buy computers with Intel graphics and platters for $2000. I let someone else.

 

[Zirel]

This thing really disgusts me about Apple -- selling old technology for exorbitant pricing.

MacBook Pro 13-inch was released early June 2012, four years ago, 1471 days ago according to MacRumors today. Initially priced at $1199 USD in 2012, it received one price drop in 2014 to $1099 USD.

Looking at other regions around the world, some even worse pricing policies on old Apple technology for sale exist. Take Australia for instance. The same 13-inch MacBook Pro is priced at $1349 AUD in June 2012 and July 2014. However, the same 13-inch MacBook Pro product in Australia is priced today in June 2016 at $1699 AUD.

MacBook Pro 13-inch Mid 2012 benchmarks are terrible in comparison to products sold alongside it. The longevity of customer's machines is severely diminished right out of the box, however many customers have little idea about this when making their purchase.

How is this even conscionable, Apple?

Why does Apple persist with this nonsense, rubbish and deceptive policy of gouging its customers, some who unsuspectingly buy a new MacBook thinking they are getting the latest technology, when customers are actually effectively purchasing a four year old obsolete product?

To reengineer a quote earlier this year from Phil Schiller criticising old PCs in use: "There are Apple products for sale today that are over four years old. This is really sad, it really is."

Yes, Apple, this is really very sad.

Apple, please be honest in the way you conduct your business and sell products to customers. Stop gouging customers and selling old technology for exorbitant pricing.

1. http://www.everymac.com/systems/app...re-i5-2.5-13-mid-2012-unibody-usb3-specs.html
2. https://buyersguide.macrumors.com//#MacBook_Pro
3. http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/
4. https://www.apple.com/au/pr/library...-with-Latest-Processors-and-New-Graphics.html
5. https://www.apple.com/au/pr/library/2014/07/29Apple-Updates-MacBook-Pro-with-Retina-Display.html

​

What you like about Apple?

 

[bluespark]

When in store, the MacBook Pro (no Retina Display) is on show next to brand new devices. This implies the device is also new, instead the real story is that the device is four years old. It is also across many places on the site, including "Other models" on the MacBook Pro page and listed on http://www.apple.com/mac/compare/

It is a brand new device. If it weren't -- i.e., if it actually were used -- you would have a point. But it is a new device being sold as a new device and Apple publishes the specifications on its website.

 

[smacrumon]

The issue here is " a person" is projecting what he/she values onto a company and expecting what he/she thinks is what that company should be doing and that all other people around them expect the same thing, if the company doesn't fall within those values then it is wrong.

That's fair though, I'm coming from a position of where I believe Apple has seriously missed the mark here.

Sure, it's a purchase option, so it should be on the compare page. This page makes it obvious that it doesn't have a Retina Display, gets three hours less battery life, doesn't have a flash storage option, and weighs a pound more.

One of your rants was about how Apple was being dishonest and deceptive about how they market the non-retina model.

They've basically done all they can to hide it on their website, IMO. There is no "marketing" for it. There are facts and specs (if you go out of your way to look for them) but Apple has none of their usual marketing glitz and spin for this product. They don't even dedicate a simple paragraph to "highlight" the fact that it has built-in Ethernet and SuperDrive.

And even if you come in via a non-linear method (i.e. some weird search result), they have the 13" non-Retina model essentially hidden at the bottom of the Buy page. You literally have to scroll through every 13" and 15" Retina model before you'll find the non-Retina model listed down at the bottom. This is being deceptive? Seriously?

And yet they've been selling it in store alongside all the latest models. Being listed anywhere on the website, being positioned in store next to other models, being sold at a the high price point all imply its brand new tech when it just isn't. Savvy forum people might know the differences, but do all customers know they are buying four year old tech? No, they don't. And that is the big problem. Many customers are being duped by Apple this way.

okay dude, we get it, you are the lone warrior, out to right a grievous injustice. or maybe you are some lonely kid looking for attention. or maybe you are just off your meds. just like every other company on the planet, Apple can sell whatever they want. you can buy or not buy it. most all selling is done with misdirection and deception, with abuse of language, with stretching the truth and sometimes even outright lying. that is the way of the world. that is what people do to each other. Apple isn't innocent, hardly anyone is. and does it even matter? people make terrible and emotional decisions all the time. something as blatant as the facts will rarely change their minds. move on.

First, I suggest you move on. Second, nice one starting with personal attacks, suggesting someone is off their meds is rather offensive, not cool, reconsider how you structure your argument next time. Third, Apple is a better company than this deceive, stretch the truth, play that nonsense game. If Apple wants to sell this old technology, it should have dropped the price by at least one third two years ago otherwise don't sell it at all. Selling products with absolute truth and honesty in labelling is key, and Apple can achieve it. Wouldn't the world be a much better place if truth and honesty was expressed more?

What you like about Apple?

There are many things I like about Apple. Some of my other threads and comments highlight those. It's okay however to criticize and call Apple out when it is doing something less than satisfactory, documenting the reasons.

It is a brand new device. If it weren't -- i.e., if it actually were used -- you would have a point. But it is a new device being sold as a new device and Apple publishes the specifications on its website.

No I have a completely valid point here. It's four year old out of date technology being sold at a price point suggesting it is brand new technology, sold alongside actual brand new products. It's highly deceptive.

 

[C DM]

That's fair though, I'm coming from a position of where I believe Apple has seriously missed the mark here.

And yet they've been selling it in store alongside all the latest models. Being listed anywhere on the website, being positioned in store next to other models, being sold at a the high price point all imply its brand new tech when it just isn't. Savvy forum people might know the differences, but do all customers know they are buying four year old tech? No, they don't. And that is the big problem. Many customers are being duped by Apple this way.

First, I suggest you move on. Second, nice one starting with personal attacks, suggesting someone is off their meds is rather offensive, not cool, reconsider how you structure your argument next time. Third, Apple is a better company than this deceive, stretch the truth, play that nonsense game. If Apple wants to sell this old technology, it should have dropped the price by at least one third two years ago otherwise don't sell it at all. Selling products with absolute truth and honesty in labelling is key, and Apple can achieve it. Wouldn't the world be a much better place if truth and honesty was expressed more?

There are many things I like about Apple. Some of my other threads and comments highlight those. It's okay however to criticize and call Apple out when it is doing something less than satisfactory, documenting the reasons.

No I have a completely valid point here. It's four year old out of date technology being sold at a price point suggesting it is brand new technology, sold alongside actual brand new products. It's highly deceptive.

And looks like it's already been addressed as various provided links have shown. Talk about getting a fast response.

 

[Mr_Brightside_@]

Write to Tim, let us know what he says.

 

[smacrumon]

And looks like it's already been addressed as various provided links have shown. Talk about getting a fast response.

That's not the point. This should have been addressed two years ago. The products should have been put into the refurbished/clearance store a long time ago not sold alongside brand new tech.

 

[C DM]

That's not the point. This should have been addressed two years ago. The products should have been put into the refurbished/clearance store a long time ago not sold alongside brand new tech.

Were there complaints about this two years ago?

 

[smacrumon]

Were there complaints about this two years ago?

I'm certain there have been complaints. Two years ago the device received a pithy $100 price drop. Pretty ordinary stuff from Apple, that's all.

 

[Zirel]

There are many things I like about Apple. Some of my other threads and comments highlight those. It's okay however to criticize and call Apple out when it is doing something less than satisfactory, documenting the reasons.

Yes it is, but I've never seen you say anything nice, makes me question if you don't like anything why criticizing, Apple is not for you.

Also your signature is only links to your criticisms of Apple.