This thing really disgusts me about Apple

[smacrumon]

Yes it is, but I've never seen you say anything nice, makes me question if you don't like anything why criticizing, Apple is not for you.

Also your signature is only links to your criticisms of Apple.

What Apple has been doing with the four year old 13-inch MacBook Pro sold at a new product pricing point is deplorable. I'm calling it out and calling it out loudly.

However, you must be reading someone else's signature. I have two negative and two positive topics running:
This thing really disgusts me about Apple http://ow.ly/dLub301u6Hc
The great but mysterious Apple TV campaign http://ow.ly/qXAa300YFAy
How Apple lost its way: Steve Jobs’ love of simplicity is gone http://ow.ly/XmKf300QPKf
iPhone design. What is your favourite? http://bit.ly/1RFTM0z

Here's one new declaration for you, get ready, it's a positive declaration-- I declare my love for Apple's investigations into differential privacy. It's so cool.

 

[Mr_Brightside_@]

What did Tim say?

 

[aristobrat]

being sold at a the high price point all imply its brand new tech when it just isn't

I don't get that implication.

The price point for it is $200 cheaper than the entry-level 13" rMBP. IMO, that alone implies that it's not brand new tech. It's the same pricing model Apple uses for selling older model (read: not new tech) iPhones, iPads, etc.

Going back to the Compare page you like to mention... I put a red X below on the lines that I think make it pretty obvious that the non-retina model isn't new tech.

I get it. You have a beef with them selling it. Fine. I just don't think you can realistically call HOW their selling it "deceitful or dishonest", or that they're implying that it's brand-new tech.

 

[Carlanga]

wow 1st world problems...

 

[Tech198]

Yep, all of that is just choice..

 

[26139]

Apple doesn't run on tight margins and you've missed the point of my post, I'm not seeking to buy one.
[doublepost=1466528148][/doublepost]
As above, you've missed the point of this post.
[doublepost=1466528274][/doublepost]
Un, deux, trois, you too have missed the point of my post, I'm not seeking to buy one.

..if you're not going to buy it, and it's not some life necessity, why does it matter how much it costs?
[doublepost=1466605546][/doublepost]

In that case, Apple can't claim that they sell new technology or cutting edge technology in their marketing. They sell old repacked poor quality machines, covered up by a fancy box.

Do you know how manufacturing product cycles work? Even the machines we do get are already months and maybe years behind "cutting-edge" technology because of the time it takes to design and build this ****.

For what is available to normal people, Apple isn't lying, it's offering products people want to buy. For some, an optical drive and user-serviceable HD are huge. My photography buddy runs an SSD/HD setup in his, and loves it. He'd buy it again, today. I wouldn't.

Which of us is wrong?

 

[akash.nu]

It shouldn't be on sale at all. It's deceptive and dishonest. Apple is better than this nonsense marketing trick. Maybe look at it that way.

I've a huge doubt about your idea of marketing and sales. May I ask what your profession is if you don't mind?

 

[Feenician]

How can people not understand the most simple precept of capitalism and the free market? A company (any company but especially a publicly listed one that has a legal requirement to maximize profit) will charge whatever the market bears. Clearly the market bearss Apple's prices or they wouldn't be one of the most profitable companies that ever existed. Should the market no longer bear the pricing Apple will have to reduce it, make something new that increases their profits once more, or face the consequences of failing to do either. There is simply nothing more to say.

 

[crg]

Apple doesn't run on tight margins and you've missed the point of my post, I'm not seeking to buy one.
[doublepost=1466528148][/doublepost]
As above, you've missed the point of this post.
[doublepost=1466528274][/doublepost]
Un, deux, trois, you too have missed the point of my post, I'm not seeking to buy one.

[doublepost=1466629602][/doublepost]Dang, I think it is you who is missing the point. Apple sells plenty of new technology. There has been a market for the 2012 MBP 13", so they kept them on the shelves. I believe that this is not the case anymore, but I could buy those for $899 all day long for the past year (someone always had it on sale for that price and BestBuy matches). It's great to vent for no reason, but give up when you're beat! BTW, my extended family has 2 of those models, both with college students and both are perfect for their application.

 

[pat500000]

If Michael Jackson was the CEO and you said that to him in his face...he would have told you to "beat it." (Music theme)

 

[Tech198]

lol...fun concept

 

[Arran]

To reengineer a quote earlier this year from Phil Schiller criticising old PCs in use: "There are Apple products for sale today that are over four years old. This is really sad, it really is."

What the heck is a "re-engineered quote'. Stuff you made up? Can I play too:

I love the instant "look at me, I'm cool" factor that comes from owning Apple products. BUT, what really grinds my gears is that all my cool friends at college have the latest Apple MacBooks, but my grandparents are buying me the really old model. It's the same model my grandparents have themselves and they think it's just great value, particularly since its lasted them so long.

Thing is, I really need a laptop for college. And I really need to look cool: This-year's-model cool.

So, guys, how do I tell my grandparents to upgrade their (already generous) gift to me without coming across as ungrateful? They might just give me nothing instead.

Apple, if you are reading this, will you please, please, please, just stop selling the old model? Crisis averted.

I HATE you Apple! (but I love you too, xxx. Forever yours.).

 

[Mr_Brightside_@]

What the heck is a "re-engineered quote'. Stuff you made up? Can I play too:

Bodied.

 

[smacrumon]

I don't get that implication.

The price point for it is $200 cheaper than the entry-level 13" rMBP. IMO, that alone implies that it's not brand new tech. It's the same pricing model Apple uses for selling older model (read: not new tech) iPhones, iPads, etc.

Going back to the Compare page you like to mention... I put a red X below on the lines that I think make it pretty obvious that the non-retina model isn't new tech.

I get it. You have a beef with them selling it. Fine. I just don't think you can realistically call HOW their selling it "deceitful or dishonest", or that they're implying that it's brand-new tech.


View attachment 637358 View attachment 637359 View attachment 637360

Considering that more than half the items you've marked with a cross that are as you describe "isn't new tech", maybe the price should reflect that and be half the shelf price.
A top shelf price and being sold alongside brand new producs in the online store and in store implies the product is brand new, but it isn't, it's four years old.
I think you are coming from the position of a savvy mac user, you understand tech specs, but I'd suggest 90% of Apple customers don't understand tech specs and are being ripped off and duped at the checkout.
[doublepost=1466690785][/doublepost]

..if you're not going to buy it, and it's not some life necessity, why does it matter how much it costs?
[doublepost=1466605546][/doublepost]

Do you know how manufacturing product cycles work? Even the machines we do get are already months and maybe years behind "cutting-edge" technology because of the time it takes to design and build this ****.

For what is available to normal people, Apple isn't lying, it's offering products people want to buy. For some, an optical drive and user-serviceable HD are huge. My photography buddy runs an SSD/HD setup in his, and loves it. He'd buy it again, today. I wouldn't.

Which of us is wrong?

If we are going to move our species forward, then selling old technology, four years old to unsuspecting customers, isn't the way to move our species forward. It's just a cheap and nasty marketing tactic from Apple to benefit no one but shareholders.
I absolutely understand product cycles. Apple is likely working on products well into the future. But this is completely different. This is a four year old obsolete macbook, with a near launch price point, sitting alongside brand new devices. Rubbish corporate nonsense from Apple.

 

[aristobrat]

If we are going to move our species forward, then selling old technology, four years old to unsuspecting customers, isn't the way to move our species forward.

There doesn't exist a forum emoticon for most folks' initial thought after reading that, IMO. LOL

[doublepost=1466693720][/doublepost]

I think you are coming from the position of a savvy mac user, you understand tech specs, but I'd suggest 90% of Apple customers don't understand tech specs and are being ripped off and duped at the checkout.

I disagree.

I think that Apple's "Compare" page presents most of the comparisons in an easy-to-read and non-technical manner, so the Average Joe doesn't have to be savvy to see that the non-retina 13" MBP is not using the latest tech.

I don't think any savviness is needed to see:

.95 inch (old tech) is thicker than .71 inch (new tech)
4.5 pounds (old tech) is heavier than 3.48 pounds (new tech)
8 GB RAM max (old tech) is half of 16 GB RAM max (new tech)
A '4000' graphics card (old tech) is older than a '6100' graphics card (new tech)
1280 by 800 resolution (old tech) is half of 2560 by 1600 resolution (new tech)
7 hours battery life (old tech) is less than 10 hours battery life (new tech)
A 63.5 watt-hour battery (old tech) is less than a 74.9 watt-hour battery (new tech)
MagSafe (old tech) is older than MagSafe 2 (new tech)
$1099 (old tech) is cheaper than $1299 (new tech)

And again, we're talking about the smaller percentage of people who come in to Apple's website via a non-linear method and land directly on the non-retina MBP (or the Compare page), because as we've already discussed, Apple has pretty much hidden the non-retina MacBook Pro from view for majority of people who search for MBPs on their website the traditional way (by clicking on Mac > MacBook Pro).

 

[smacrumon]

There doesn't exist a forum emoticon for most folks' initial thought after reading that, IMO. LOL

[doublepost=1466693720][/doublepost]

I disagree.

I think that Apple's "Compare" page presents most of the comparisons in an easy-to-read and non-technical manner, so the Average Joe doesn't have to be savvy to see that the non-retina 13" MBP is not using the latest tech.

I don't think any savviness is needed to see:

.95 inch (old tech) is thicker than .71 inch (new tech)
4.5 pounds (old tech) is heavier than 3.48 pounds (new tech)
8 GB RAM max (old tech) is half of 16 GB RAM max (new tech)
A '4000' graphics card (old tech) is older than a '6100' graphics card (new tech)
1280 by 800 resolution (old tech) is half of 2560 by 1600 resolution (new tech)
7 hours battery life (old tech) is less than 10 hours battery life (new tech)
A 63.5 watt-hour battery (old tech) is less than a 74.9 watt-hour battery (new tech)
MagSafe (old tech) is older than MagSafe 2 (new tech)
$1099 (old tech) is cheaper than $1299 (new tech)

And again, we're talking about the smaller percentage of people who come in to Apple's website via a non-linear method and land directly on the non-retina MBP (or the Compare page), because as we've already discussed, Apple has pretty much hidden the non-retina MacBook Pro from view for majority of people who search for MBPs on their website the traditional way (by clicking on Mac > MacBook Pro).

Apple should be presenting the "best products", not old rubbish alongside brand new products. Apple is meant to be different, not "same, same" like other PC manufacturers. Apple is meant to move us forward, not backwards.

Most consumers don't drill down the tech specs doing a comparison like you just did as you might pretend they do. This "old tech" is ancient tech by Apple standards. Apple criticizes 5 year old PCs, well this "on the shelf" product is 4 years old, Apple is less than 12 months from being the butt of their own criticisms and jokes. That's embarrassing for Apple and completely hypocritical.

This four year old neglected product should be $599 not $1099. Your analysis of the tech specs suggest the product is much more deficient than the $1099 price tag suggests and implies. This rubbish product is just there to fill shareholder pockets and that is completely unacceptable. Apple should be making the best products that fill shareholder pockets, not filling shareholder pockets with the proceeds of rubbish.

It's all about values here. What this situation communicates is Apple sells rubbish and is no different to competitors.

 

[C DM]

Apple should be presenting the "best products", not old rubbish alongside brand new products. Apple is meant to be different, not "same, same" like other PC manufacturers. Apple is meant to move us forward, not backwards.

Most consumers don't drill down the tech specs doing a comparison like you just did as you might pretend they do. This "old tech" is ancient tech by Apple standards. Apple criticizes 5 year old PCs, well this "on the shelf" product is 4 years old, Apple is less than 12 months from being the butt of their own criticisms and jokes. That's embarrassing for Apple and completely hypocritical.

This four year old neglected product should be $599 not $1099. Your analysis of the tech specs suggest the product is much more deficient than the $1099 price tag suggests and implies. This rubbish product is just there to fill shareholder pockets and that is completely unacceptable. Apple should be making the best products that fill shareholder pockets, not filling shareholder pockets with the proceeds of rubbish.

It's all about values here. What this situation communicates is Apple sells rubbish and is no different to competitors.

Seems like people are still having this imaginary thing about Apple being "different" when they are just another company out there that is trying to make money. The underlying issue seems to be more with perception and expectations that aren't really based on reality.

 

[smacrumon]

Seems like people are still having this imaginary thing about Apple being "different" when they are just another company out there that is trying to make money. The underlying issue seems to be more with perception and expectations that aren't really based on reality.

No, actually, perception, expectations and reality can all occur together. That is certainly not an impossibility.
Hopefully the pigs and corrupt attitude and values of Apple during the 1990's aren't making a reoccurrence.

 

[aristobrat]

Most consumers don't drill down the tech specs doing a comparison like you just did as you might pretend they do.

LOL, it was YOU that brought the Compare page into this discussion (presumably to make your point, as it's one of the three or four pages that actually have a reference to the old MacBook Pro).

Now you want to discount that page because "most consumers don't look at tech specs"? Seriously? Talk about moving the goalposts during a game.

When it comes to Apple "presenting" their best products... Go into their website like a regular person looking for information about MacBook Pros and see what Apple is "presenting".

I don't think that you're going to find many people here who will agree that Apple is "presenting" the old MacBook Pro.

Yes, it's available for sale (if you know where to look for where Apple buried it). Yes, it's available as a choice on the Compare page. And that's it. There's no "Features" page about it. There's no "Design" page about it. There's no "Performance" page about it. It's not being "presented".

 

[smacrumon]

LOL, it was YOU that brought the Compare page into this discussion (presumably to make your point, as it's one of the three or four pages that actually have a reference to the old MacBook Pro).

Now you want to discount that page because "most consumers don't look at tech specs"? Seriously? Talk about moving the goalposts during a game.

When it comes to Apple "presenting" their best products... Go into their website like a regular person looking for information about MacBook Pros and see what Apple is "presenting".

I don't think that you're going to find many people here who will agree that Apple is "presenting" the old MacBook Pro.

Yes, it's available for sale (if you know where to look for where Apple buried it). Yes, it's available as a choice on the Compare page. And that's it. There's no "Features" page about it. There's no "Design" page about it. There's no "Performance" page about it. It's not being "presented".

No, I was simply saying the product is listed on that page as well. I am saying many people don't read the level of detail that you pointed out and as you might pretend they do.
Apple have being presenting it in store alongside their newest models for years. This is poor behaviour.
I'm not looking for people to fist pump and agree with me, I'm simply pointing it out Apple is hypocritical and they can do much better than this nonsense.

 

[aristobrat]

Apple have being presenting it in store alongside their newest models for years. This is poor behaviour.

All of the Apple Stores I've been in had one demo model of the old MacBook Pro on display, compared to a large table full of demo models of the new MacBook Pros. The old MacBook Pro wasn't even on the same table as the new MacBook Pros at the Apple Store near me.

That's precisely the behavior a retailer offering an old model should be using, IMO. Having the old one out and available to test, but making it visibility obvious that it's not the newest one.

That was one of your big beefs, right? Apple was being deceitful and dishonest, trying to trick people into buying the old MacBook Pros (on their website, where it's essentially hidden, and in their stores, where they had one demo out)?

 

[smacrumon]

All of the Apple Stores I've been in had one demo model of the old MacBook Pro on display, compared to a large table full of demo models of the new MacBook Pros. The old MacBook Pro wasn't even on the same table as the new MacBook Pros at the Apple Store near me.

That's precisely the behavior a retailer offering an old model should be using, IMO. Having the old one out and available to test, but making it visibility obvious that it's not the newest one.

That was one of your big beefs, right? Apple was being deceitful and dishonest, trying to trick people into buying the old MacBook Pros (on their website, where it's essentially hidden, and in their stores, where they had one demo out)?

Not in the stores I saw it was amongst them all not segregated. And the hypocrisy. This four year old neglected product should be half of $1099 if it wasn't to be upgraded. Or Apple should have at least bumped up the CPU and RAM and storage. Oh the hypocrisy of a Apple Inc criticizing old PCs... Oh the hypocrisy. I want to byte into a fresh Apple not a rotten core.

 

[C DM]

Not in the stores I saw it was amongst them all not segregated. And the hypocrisy. This four year old neglected product should be half of $1099 if it wasn't to be upgraded. Or Apple should have at least bumped up the CPU and RAM and storage. Oh the hypocrisy of a Apple Inc criticizing old PCs... Oh the hypocrisy. I want to byte into a fresh Apple not a rotten core.

It's already been taken care of. Rehashing it isn't going to make it outrageous somehow.

 

[smacrumon]

It's already been taken care of. Rehashing it isn't going to make it outrageous somehow.

By taken care of, you mean it's still available for sale at top dollar. Hmmm.

 

[C DM]

By taken care of, you mean it's still available for sale at top dollar. Hmmm.

It's being pulled from stores, as a number of linked articles have shown.