Thoughts on OS X Mountain Lion??

[definitive]

I really like the direction in which Apple is taking the OS X. It will be simpler, and at the same time more convenient.

Only thing that bothers me is that Apple wants to release a new version of the OS every year, which I can't help but think that it will make hardware obsolete much faster. Previously you could get 3-5 years out of your system, but now all that may change. I feel like we're at the point where hardware isn't as important as it was in the past when it comes to the operating system. When it comes to the os, the majority of bottlenecks come from hard drives and amount of RAM. Since most systems can have 4-8 GIGs of RAM and SATA2/3 and SSD hard drives, there shouldn't be much need to upgrade to newer systems, but Apple is dumping older graphic chipsets which you can't upgrade in their systems...

 

[ljgww]

this may hit some nerve, so, I apologize!

The Dark Side of Apple, Volume 2

it is irrelevant what you think about the new OSx (starts deserving lowercase) - intention remains to sell you the media - if you are not profitable group, your opinion does not count.

 

[Saturn1217]

I'll reserve judgement...

Well from the first time I started using Lion I was hoping that Apple would come out with a minor upgrade (ala Leopard > Snow Leopard) to try to straighten up the many poorly executed (even if good in principle) ideas they introduced in Lion.

Hopefully in ML this developer preview is just showing the crowd pleasing stuff (minor bug fixes and streamlining of the UI probably wouldn't make very good headlines). I'm releaved to see that most of the iOS stuff they are introducing seems to be avoidable (I hope) even though the thought of having Twitter integrated into ANYTHING I use makes me a little ill.

Hopefully along with the gee wiz stuff like a separate notes application (OMG!) they spend a LOT of time carefully combing through Lion and getting rid of weird UI inconsistencies and bringing back functionality that Leopard and SL had. (Save As, Quick Look where I can actually zoom in on pdfs, columns that resize properly when I'm in kind view, animations that don't take stupidly long amounts of time, the return of true gesture customizability, and a way to set DON'T reopen apps after restart to default...to name a few)

I am living with Lion currently and I'm not unhappy. (for anyone interested you can use the old SL Preview complete with Save As in Lion and this has gone a long way to smoothing my transition) But it is also glaringly clear to me that this is the worst version of OSX I have used thus far (only been around since Leopard). It required by far the most tweaking and hidden hacks to set up in a way I thought was productive but at least I got there eventually...

I do take hope from other comments in the thread. If Apple is coming out with 10.8 so soon it means they may also see a need for fixing Lion. Fingers crossed that OSX improves from here. Lion isn't horrible but I know they can do better!

 

[fel10]

in case anyone wanted it.

[url=http://thumbnails56.imagebam.com/17515/9e0f4d175143185.jpg]Image[/URL]

Thanks a lot for this

 

[InuNacho]

Do you know any way I can downgrade my OS X Lion down to Snow Leopard without deleting everything on my MacBook?

Try this. http://www.zdnet.com/blog/government/how-to-install-snow-leopard-on-a-brand-new-lion-based-mac/10652

I dunno about a regular old Macbook but I do recall seeing a few threads about people installing 10.6 on late 2011 MBPs by using the early 2011 recovery discs.

 

[OLDCODGER]

Hardware purchase

For me, Lion represented the end of OS updates. Snow Leopard is as far as I intend to go, so any HW upgrades will be other than Mac, once I can no longer hack SL to a Mac.

I have been an Apple exclusive user since 1983, but, sadly, all good things come to an end.

 

[bbhegedus]

Not sure if this has been said yet, but on Mountain Lion, the MacBook Air's instant-on feature feels a lot more "instant" than in Lion.

 

[Kariya]

First look;

-No noticeable UI changes from Lion
-Mission Control is still Mission Control at first glance. Ditto for Autosave/Version
-Fullscreen/Multi-Display support still broken
-You can reorganise Finder sidebar but still no colours to be found.
-64-bit kexts or bust
-Launchpad is searchable but still doesn't reflect Finder changes. Also one can no longer scroll between pages with arrow keys.
-In my App catalogue Office 2011 (and most apps) work as is but Macaroni and iStatPro don't (probably the kexts thing).
-Dashboard UI for choosing Widgets has changed. Now Laucnhpad-like against a grey background and sports a search option. Also no more ripple effect
-Safari is blazing. HTML5 support improved. Search/Address bar integrated. Seems to store Passwords. Tabs autoscale across. RSS seems to be currently MIA or just broken.
-Text edit now integrates with iCloud
-Support for Flickr, Twitter, Vimeo and some other asian networks.

For a Beta 1 it is fairly stable and fast. On par with 10.7.3 at least.

Overall i like it but i hope its significantly tweaked out by summer.

 

[nostylluan]

for personal use, i like it a lot... love how it interacts with my iphone, the only reason i have a computer is to browse/email and play video games. so for me it's a great addition.

 

[swingerofbirch]

Can anyone comment on the performance/nimbleness of Mountain Lion compared to Lion and Snow Leopard?

My personal experience was that Lion slowed down my mid-2010 MBP 13" significantly. I know that's a controversial experience to have had on this forum, but if anyone else had such issues and has been brave enough to test the waters with Mountain Lion, I'd be curious to hear how it fares.

 

[Mad Mac Maniac]

For me, Lion represented the end of OS updates. Snow Leopard is as far as I intend to go, so any HW upgrades will be other than Mac, once I can no longer hack SL to a Mac.

I have been an Apple exclusive user since 1983, but, sadly, all good things come to an end.

Oh don't be so dramatic. So you'll switch to windows because of a few features u don't like? What do u hate so much? U don't think u can come to like it or at least tolerate it? What if u hate windows even more? Never buy a computer again? Just move forward and move on

 

[Krazy Bill]

First look;

-No noticeable UI changes from Lion

Figured as much. No surprise.

-Mission Control is still Mission Control at first glance. Ditto for Autosave/Version

Well... just crap.

-You can reorganise Finder sidebar but still no colours to be found.

Don't need no steenking colored icons anyway.

-64-bit kexts or bust

Makes sense. Again, no surprise.

-Launchpad is searchable but still doesn't reflect Finder changes. Also one can longer scroll between pages with arrow keys.

Don't care. What's launchpad anyway?

-Safari is blazing. HTM5 support improved. Search/Address bar integrated.

This is good.

-Text edit now integrates with iCloud

Well, I suppose somebody would find this useful. Personally notepad works for me now.

Kind thanks for your report.

 

[Reach9]

Wow, Mountain Lion will be a "meh" upgrade. These features should have already been in Lion. I don't think these features are deserving of a x.1 upgrade, but I think Apple wants to quickly get to 11.0
I'm guessing that after 10.8, they'll go straight to 11.0, and the main feature will be Siri.

I wonder what OS 11 will be called? OSXI? sounds like "Oh sexy".

Regarding the name change, I think somewhere down the line.. Apple will release a product that is a Macbook Air and iPad mix. It will have a keyboard that you can possibly flip or something, making it into an iPad. And be able to flip the keyboard or something, and make it into a laptop. It will run both OS X and iOS, depending on the flip.
By that time we'll have the 24hour battery life Intel has promised too.

Now that.. will be the ultimate computing tool.
My main computing tools will then be.. iMac, iPhone and the (iPad + MacBook Air mix).

As long as Apple does not make OS X into a closed system like the iPhone, I'll take the upgrades. However, the moment Apple says that the Mac App Store will be the only place to buy apps, I won't upgrade.

 

[InuNacho]

For me, Lion represented the end of OS updates. Snow Leopard is as far as I intend to go, so any HW upgrades will be other than Mac, once I can no longer hack SL to a Mac.

I have been an Apple exclusive user since 1983, but, sadly, all good things come to an end.

I too have been using Macs since the old 68K B/W days and it really is sad that the Mac platform is becoming more and more of a glorified iPad. Want to make any wagers that in 10.9 they're just gonna kill off the Finder?

 

[secretanchitman]

What is it you don't like about mission control? Personally I really like it - grouping windows to their apps and making it clearer what is what is a big improvement for me over expose. Am I missing something?

the whole point of expose was to show you every single window. what lion (and now mountain lion) does is group each program window together.

for example, lets say i have 4-5 firefox windows open, along with itunes, mail, adium buddy list, and an adium chat window. in snow leopard, it would show each and every window and not obstruct anything. in lion, it will group the 4-5 firefox windows behind one another, and group the adium buddy list and window together. to me, this is not what expose is meant for. expose is meant to, quite honestly, expose every window, not group them together.

here are some pictures to show you what i mean:

http://www.macintouch.com/specialreports/snowleopard/graphics/expose-all.jpg - this is in snow leopard. it shows every single window, plus it shows you all of your minimized applications as well (you can see the semi transparent line near the bottom of the picture), which is extremely handy for me, as i have checked "minimize windows into application icon" in system preferences.

http://www.marekbell.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/expose1.png - this is lion. while its the same principle, you can see that multiple safari windows are open, but are now hiding behind each other. unfortunately, that is not how i want expose to work.

with that, i have even submitted a request to apple asking to bring back the old expose from snow leopard into lion, and just now submitted another one for mountain lion. im really hoping they bring back the old implementation - it was perfect.

 

[holden57]

I'm generally not liking the direction that OS X is going lately. That being said, the only feature that really jumps out in Mountain Lion as being much more "iOS oriented" is Gatekeeper. The option to only accept applications from the app store is mystifying. It makes me suspect that Apple would like to move away from third party software...

I would like to see Mission Control no longer part of OS X, but I assume that will not happen. From my experience being able to see your windows which are open (by window, not application) is a much faster than application based switching.

Those who enjoy these changes more power to them, but it doesn't suit my workflow.

 

[ssn637]

First look;

-No noticeable UI changes from Lion
-Mission Control is still Mission Control at first glance. Ditto for Autosave/Version
-Fullscreen/Multi-Display support still broken
-You can reorganise Finder sidebar but still no colours to be found.
-64-bit kexts or bust
-Launchpad is searchable but still doesn't reflect Finder changes. Also one can no longer scroll between pages with arrow keys.
-In my App catalogue Office 2011 (and most apps) work as is but Macaroni and iStatPro don't (probably the kexts thing).
-Dashboard UI for choosing Widgets has changed. Now Laucnhpad-like against a grey background and sports a search option. Also no more ripple effect
-Safari is blazing. HTML5 support improved. Search/Address bar integrated. Seems to store Passwords. Tabs autoscale across. RSS seems to be currently MIA or just broken.
-Text edit now integrates with iCloud
-Support for Flickr, Twitter, Vimeo and some other asian networks.

For a Beta 1 it is fairly stable and fast. On par with 10.7.3 at least.

Overall i like it but i hope its significantly tweaked out by summer.

Parallels Desktop 7 is also a bust in 10.8; installation is successful but upon restarting and setup the virtual machine refuses to run. I've got iStatMenu working just fine as far as I can tell, but a lot of the "hacks" we've relied on for 10.7 (color sidebar icons, modifying the SArtFile.bin UI, black menu bar) fail miserably in Mountain Lion. I also tried to download the Boot Camp drivers but they weren't available on the update server. The operating system is stable enough but lacks support for some features. Reminds me of the Windows 8 developer preview, which everyone played with for a few days before going back to Windows 7.

I'm also afraid battery life will suffer as much as it does with Lion. Snow Leopard just feels right and, at least on my MacBook Pro 13" 2010 system, works like a champ.

Has anyone tried to upgrade a 10.7.3 system with selected 10.8 applications, such as Notifications or Reminders? A Lion 10.7.4 so to speak?

 

[Blue Sun]

with that, i have even submitted a request to apple asking to bring back the old expose from snow leopard into lion, and just now submitted another one for mountain lion. im really hoping they bring back the old implementation - it was perfect.

IMO, Expose from Snow Leopard (more so Leopard) was fantastic and near perfect for multitasking, but I don't think Apple will bring it back exactly as we remember it. I think they may tweak some aspects of Mission Control though, as it needs some serious work.

I like how MC displays the numerous desktops/spaces along the top of the screen, but it really should display each and every open window for that desktop too. Layering the same application windows over one another creates a very cluttered experience. We open MC to find a particular window right? What good does it do when MC is just as disorganised as our regular desktop?

OS 10.8 really needs to address this problem.

Also, Mountain Lion needs to take some cues from Snow Leopard from a performance perspective. SL was a huge leap from Leopard in terms of performance, ML needs to do the same to Lion.

 

[swingerofbirch]

I have another question. If you save directly to the iCloud, is there no way then to see the file in the Finder? If you wanted to e-mail it to someone, how would you do that? And do file saved directly to the iCloud also feature auto-save and versions?

 

[Niklasnick]

Can anyone comment on the performance/nimbleness of Mountain Lion compared to Lion and Snow Leopard?

My personal experience was that Lion slowed down my mid-2010 MBP 13" significantly. I know that's a controversial experience to have had on this forum, but if anyone else had such issues and has been brave enough to test the waters with Mountain Lion, I'd be curious to hear how it fares.

Though it's Developer Preview 1 (so not even a real Beta in Microsoft-speech), it's significantly faster than Lion on my Mid 2010 13" MBP (2.26Ghz/8GB RAM/128GB SSD [which is in an external USB 2.0 case, so I don't even use the full possible speed through the internal connection!]). System uses about 2-5 % of CPU (mostly at ~2.75%), which is slightly more than Lion, and Safari uses 10-30% of CPU even at only one or few pages opened. But it's incredibly fast compared to Safari on Lion.
Facebook is fully loaded in a split of a second, which took several seconds on Lion, rather "unstable" pages like Gizmodo also work much better now.
Even Safari itself starts in less than a second, which used to take several seconds. Spotlight also is much more responsive, and the overall feeling is great, though (really only) sometimes little lags (like when scrolling on big pages in safari) are noticeable.
I hope, the performance stays the same - iOS 4 was also a lot faster in Beta than iOS 3 on my iPhone 3G, but with the final version it became unusable slow.

 

[Crayo]

Thoughts on OS X Mountain Lion

There is a certain philosophy behind the moves Apple is doing with OS X.

Sure, they are on a mission to unify iOS and OS X user interface concepts and they are adding more features, but they are also getting rid of things that have been around since early days of OS X and have since started to look out of place. This cleanup is a good thing folks.

And in general I like seeing more changes that gets the computer out of the way when I'm actually doing something with it. I want to create, think, communicate, code, edit .. whatever, but I dont want to feel that I'm *using a computer*.

Computing is supposed to enable us and make our lifes easier as an extension of human capabilities. It's not supposed to jump in our faces saying "I'm here! Notice me!". Good OS "fades away" when focusing on things you are doing *with* it. Computer, or OS for that matter, is not the king - content and people are. I think Apple gets this better than anyone in the industry.

For the people switching from Windows to OS X I usually tell that OS X is eventually going to be more "dull". And what I mean by that, is that it's going to be fireworks and excitement at the beginning but when you get to doing actual work with it, OS X (and Mac) usually kind of fades away. You get to focus on the content and the actual work more and less on the computer as a tool.

Windows on the other hand tends to interrupt user with lot of procedures that add complexity to workflow. Mostly, and sadly, people get used and routinized to this. OS X, release by release, tends to remove these annoyances.

OS X lacks many Windows concepts - not because it isn't as good or better but because those things simply are not necessary in OS X. In my experience at the beginning many switchers complain OS X being lacking because some random menu option they are used to is missing. I usually tell them that it's not just missing - it's unnecessary .. and there is more natural way of reaching the same workflow goal.

Purchasing your first Mac takes about 10 minutes at Apple store, but unlearning old routines and changing computing philosophy takes months. I know this because I've helped migrating many companies and offices to Mac from other systems. Usually they complain and even get disappointed at first but when they unlearn a lot and learn a little they see why Apple "gets it" better. After first year, all of them have stated that they are never going back and their measurable productivity has gone up.

I dont mind being called Apple fanboy or machead if being one makes me more effective at my work compared to those using other tools.

I like where Apple is going with OS X Mountain Lion.

 

[Skika]

I would rather see iOS apps being renamed to iCal and Address book than reverse.

Contacts and Calendar seem to generic.

 

[Kariya]

Parallels Desktop 7 is also a bust in 10.8; installation is successful but upon restarting and setup the virtual machine refuses to run. I've got iStatMenu working just fine as far as I can tell

Has anyone tried to upgrade a 10.7.3 system with selected 10.8 applications, such as Notifications or Reminders? A Lion 10.7.4 so to speak?

iStat Menu is different to iStatPro i think. I doubt your second question will work. There are likely API changes that you'd need to have in place.

 

[ADMProducer]

I would rather see iOS apps being renamed to iCal and Address book than reverse.

Contacts and Calendar seem to generic.

Trivial argument is trivial.

 

[Brendando]

Though it's Developer Preview 1 (so not even a real Beta in Microsoft-speech), it's significantly faster than Lion on my Mid 2010 13" MBP (2.26Ghz/8GB RAM/128GB SSD [which is in an external USB 2.0 case, so I don't even use the full possible speed through the internal connection!]). System uses about 2-5 % of CPU (mostly at ~2.75%), which is slightly more than Lion, and Safari uses 10-30% of CPU even at only one or few pages opened. But it's incredibly fast compared to Safari on Lion.
Facebook is fully loaded in a split of a second, which took several seconds on Lion, rather "unstable" pages like Gizmodo also work much better now.
Even Safari itself starts in less than a second, which used to take several seconds. Spotlight also is much more responsive, and the overall feeling is great, though (really only) sometimes little lags (like when scrolling on big pages in safari) are noticeable.
I hope, the performance stays the same - iOS 4 was also a lot faster in Beta than iOS 3 on my iPhone 3G, but with the final version it became unusable slow.

I can also confirm this. 13" MPB Mid-2010 (2.4ghz/8GB RAM/256GB SSD). It's faster than Lion on 10.7.3, that's for sure. A lot of stuff actually feels much, much smoother, in particular Safari. The animations in Launchpad, both for opening it and the folders within, are no longer choppy for me. Mail, which always seemed to lag a fair amount in Lion, is also much smoother. It needs to be taken into account that I didn't have a terrible experience in Lion- far from it, but it was not on par with Snow Leopard in terms of smoothness, which disappointed me. I did consider downgrading, but I've become quite dependant on many of the new features, along with the UI changes, which I actually like. So when Mountain Lion was announced, I went ahead and dual-booted it in the hopes that it would withhold Lion's featureset but streamline the OS and smooth out a lot of the issues. And it seems to have done that. Definitely a promising start. Hope that helps.