Tablets Thoughts on the Nexus 7 - My experience so far...

[NovaRev]

They are all the same category: multi-touch devices.

You're going to have to do better than that. For someone who seems to be interested in the minute details of user experience this is an oddly weak and vague argument. It is wide open to interpretation and completely without nuance.

Multi-touch is an input method, not a category of devices. By itself it's a wholly inadequate descriptor for a device.

You might as well have said, "motorcycles and cars are in the same category: wheeled transportation devices."

 

[freudling]

You're going to have to do better than that. For someone who seems to be interested in the minute details of user experience this is an oddly weak and vague argument. It is wide open to interpretation and completely without nuance.

Multi-touch is an input method, not a category of devices. By itself it's a wholly inadequate descriptor for a device.

You might as well have said, "motorcycles and cars are in the same category: wheeled transportation devices."

We call them mobile-slate devices.

 

[Vegastouch]

My Nexus 7 is collecting dust while I hammer through my day and night with my iPhone and iPad. It's a waste: nobody needs tweeners.

Why did you keep it then? Ill give you $100 for it since you dont like it. Better than it just collecting dust.

 

[knucklehead]

Why did you keep it then? Ill give you $100 for it since you dont like it. Better than it just collecting dust.

I was going to offer to buy it from him too ... until he started calling it "His Sexus".

Would you really want to touch that thing?

 

[Vegastouch]

I was going to offer to buy it from him too ... until he started calling it "His Sexus".

Would you really want to touch that thing?

LOL, well i dont know.

I dont get the Sexus name that he thinks it sounds funny. Kinda dumb if you ask me. I dont know, i guess this guy is just Anti anything Apple. Says he is posting objective things but i dont see it. I just see ridiculous comments and im sure while he says the Nexus 7 is a waste...im sure he will say the 7.8" iPad will be a great device.
I am going to get me a Nexus 7 down the road since it is such a good price. $249 for a 16GB tablet is really good. Much rather spend that than $499 on a iPad3.

 

[NovaRev]

We call them mobile-slate devices.

...Which is only adequate for describing most iPad-style tablets, and barely, vaguely describes only some aspects of a smartphone--and in a tenuous way.

There's a reason that smartphones and tablets are considered different categories of products. It's because they are.

 

[freudling]

Why did you keep it then? Ill give you $100 for it since you dont like it. Better than it just collecting dust.

Development purposes. We develop software for mobile-slate devices. At this point we may test content on it because our business is primarily focused on tablets. However, I'm not wasting a bunch of resources on the form factor because as you know I think it's a dead end. I'm not the only decision maker though.

----------

...Which is only adequate for describing most iPad-style tablets, and barely, vaguely describes only some aspects of a smartphone--and in a tenuous way.

There's a reason that smartphones and tablets are considered different categories of products. It's because they are.

This last bit is a useful as this:

adsf;liadjsf;lkasdfj

It's baseless. It is just because I say so! Is your approach.

Mobile-slate devices illustrates perfectly smarthpones, iPod Touches, and tablets. They are all:

1. Multi-touch devices.
2. All slates.
3. All using the same software scaled for the screens.
4. All using virtually identical hardware.

They are one and the same, just different sizes. Ergo, tweener.

 

[Night Spring]

...Which is only adequate for describing most iPad-style tablets, and barely, vaguely describes only some aspects of a smartphone--and in a tenuous way.

There's a reason that smartphones and tablets are considered different categories of products. It's because they are.

But I'd argue that smartphones and tablets are subcategories within a larger category. For instance, currently, both tablets and smartphones run the same OS. iPad and iPhone run iOS, and Android tablets and phones all run Aundroid. HP/Palm had smartphones and tablets that all ran WebOS. It might be true that consumers see tablets and smartphones as distinct categories, but from a devloper's point of view, I think they would appear as variations within the same category. That is, if you have developed an app for a smartphone, then making a tablet version of that app is a much simpler matter than porting to desktop/laptop, which might require an entirely different programming language.

 

[knucklehead]

But I'd argue that smartphones and tablets are subcategories within a larger category. For instance, currently, both tablets and smartphones run the same OS. iPad and iPhone run iOS, and Android tablets and phones all run Aundroid. HP/Palm had smartphones and tablets that all ran WebOS. It might be true that consumers see tablets and smartphones as distinct categories, but from a devloper's point of view, I think they would appear as variations within the same category. That is, if you have developed an app for a smartphone, then making a tablet version of that app is a much simpler matter than porting to desktop/laptop, which might require an entirely different programming language.

But they are different in that they _don't_ run the same software -- freudling's point number 3 is just plain wrong.

The iPhone often runs similar, but less functional versions of iPad apps. And some iPad apps aren't available at all on the iPhone because the screen is so small that it isn't even worth trying to make the app work on it.

They are quite similar, but the screen size is such a factor that they divide into different categories by the apps they are able to run.

 

[batting1000]

But they are different in that they _don't_ run the same software -- freudling's point number 3 is just plain wrong.

The iPhone often runs similar, but less functional versions of iPad apps. And some iPad apps aren't available at all on the iPhone because the screen is so small that it isn't even worth trying to make the app work on it.

They are quite similar, but the screen size is such a factor that they divide into different categories by the apps they are able to run.

Not really. fruedling is right, iOS and apps are just scaled for the larger screen. You're right that apps might have a few extra features but that's because of the bigger screen. The same software is still being run on the iPad and iPhone/iPod. The same iOS overall is run on all three devices.

 

[knucklehead]

Not really. fruedling is right, iOS and apps are just scaled for the larger screen. You're right that apps might have a few extra features but that's because of the bigger screen. The same software is still being run on the iPad and iPhone/iPod. The same iOS overall is run on all three devices.

I have a bunch of 2x iPhone apps on my iPad -- They're lesser versions of iPad specific apps.

Not all iPad apps will even scale down to the iPhone screen. Bento 4 is an example.

Again, quite similar ... yet different.

 

[batting1000]

I have a bunch of 2x iPhone apps on my iPad -- They're lesser versions of iPad specific apps.

Not all iPad apps will even scale down to the iPhone screen. Bento 4 is an example.

Make sense if it's made specifically for the iPad.

 

[knucklehead]

Make sense if it's made specifically for the iPad.

Yeah - the larger screen presents possibilities that the smaller screen can't.
The iPhone is somewhat of a different device than the iPad for that reason.

Apples blurb from the iPad app screen: "An app made for iPad is an app like no other. That’s because apps for iPad are designed specifically to take advantage of all the technology built into iPad."

 

[batting1000]

Yeah - the larger screen presents possibilities that the smaller screen can't.
The iPhone is somewhat of a different device than the iPad for that reason.

Apples blurb from the iPad app screen: "An app made for iPad is an app like no other. That’s because apps for iPad are designed specifically to take advantage of all the technology built into iPad."

That's fine, but in general, it runs the same software (iOS) as was brought up early by freudlings. You starting discussing apps which wasn't the point that was made for the reasons you've explained.

 

[knucklehead]

That's fine, but in general, it runs the same software (iOS) as was brought up early by freudlings. You starting discussing apps which wasn't the point that was made for the reasons you've explained.

I'm pretty sure everyone was aware that it runs the same basic iOS even before "freudlings" ,as you say, brought it up. Freudling has seemed quite strange before about stating an obvious point, and then somehow considering it to be "his". You wouldn't happen to be quite closely related to him, would you?

 

[batting1000]

You wouldn't happen to be quite closely related to him, would you?

Nope. Not sure what would have you thinking that. Even if I was, it would be irrelevant.

 

[NovaRev]

This last bit is a useful as this:

adsf;liadjsf;lkasdfj

It's baseless. It is just because I say so! Is your approach.

Mobile-slate devices illustrates perfectly smarthpones, iPod Touches, and tablets. They are all:

1. Multi-touch devices.
2. All slates.
3. All using the same software scaled for the screens.
4. All using virtually identical hardware.

They are one and the same, just different sizes. Ergo, tweener.

It's interesting that you dismiss my argument at baseless despite your inability to pin down a coherent reason for phones and tablets to be considered "the same."

You're not doing anything here other than labeling a box with a vague term ("multi-touch devices," "mobile-slate devices") and indiscriminately tossing disparate devices into it without regard for their nuances. The disregard for these details is quite odd considering the painstaking attention to detail you've displayed in previous posts.

It's not hard to find incredibly broad similarities in different things and make a list of them. Anyone can do it. Look!

"Wheeled transportation devices" perfectly illustrates motorcycles, cars and even big rigs. They are all:

1. Multi-wheel.
2. All transportation.
3. All using the same technology scaled for the vehicle (internal combustion engine).
4. All using virtually identical fuel.

Do you see how absurd this is? You are highly specific about what makes a "tweener" but highly vague about what a tablet even is in the first place. You can't have it both ways. If you are incapable of pinning down exactly how phones and tablets are "one and the same" (beyond a list of hilariously obvious similarities that conveniently ignore equally obvious differences), you have no business defining a "tweener."

 

[RelevantGifGuy]

Watch yourself.

How to react when finding a fanboy with the strength of Freudling: Quick

 

[NovaRev]

But I'd argue that smartphones and tablets are subcategories within a larger category. For instance, currently, both tablets and smartphones run the same OS. iPad and iPhone run iOS, and Android tablets and phones all run Aundroid. HP/Palm had smartphones and tablets that all ran WebOS. It might be true that consumers see tablets and smartphones as distinct categories, but from a devloper's point of view, I think they would appear as variations within the same category. That is, if you have developed an app for a smartphone, then making a tablet version of that app is a much simpler matter than porting to desktop/laptop, which might require an entirely different programming language.

I agree, you could certainly call them subcategories. Phones, tablets, laptops and desktops could all be called subcategories within the larger category of "computer." My point is that phones and tablets are clearly distinct enough from each other that to lump them both together as "one and the same" is to ignore a vast amount of detail.

Yes, there are similarities. They do share OS, UI, apps, etc. But on the other hand, you could say the same of an 11" MBA and a decked-out Mac Pro tower. They share their OS, UI, apps, etc. In fact, I'd say that an MBA and Mac Pro are probably closer to identical in these ways than an iPhone and an iPad are.

But the MBA and Mac Pro are still in different categories (or subcategories, if you prefer). One is an ultraportable laptop and the other is a desktop. Sure, they both belong to the category of "personal computer," but that's too vague and general. These are two highly distinct product categories with their own unique advantages and disadvantages, despite their obvious similarities. To deny or ignore these distinctions would be silly to me. The same is true with smartphones and tablets. There are lots of similarities, but there are also major, equally obvious differences that distinguish the two.

I don't think freudling actually has a compelling reason for his eagerness to ignore the distinctions between these two categories of devices, other than the fact that it allows him to ignore the large gaps in his own argument. I don't believe that this is something that he's actually thought about. His vagueness is telling.

 

[Night Spring]

But they are different in that they _don't_ run the same software -- freudling's point number 3 is just plain wrong.

The iPhone often runs similar, but less functional versions of iPad apps. And some iPad apps aren't available at all on the iPhone because the screen is so small that it isn't even worth trying to make the app work on it.

They are quite similar, but the screen size is such a factor that they divide into different categories by the apps they are able to run.

Well... I'm not a developer, so I can't say for certain, but my guess is that where different versions of apps exist for the iPad and iPhone, like Pages for iPad and Pages for iPhone, or Calendar for iPad and Calendar for iPhone, more than half of their code is the same. And in many cases, apps for iPhone and iPad are even more closely related to each other -- some iPad apps are almost the same as their iPhone versions except for cosmetic differences to adjust for the different screen sizes. So you just can't make a blanket statement that iPad and iPhone don't run the same software. In many cases, they do. And even in cases where the iPad and iPhone versions of an app are distinctly different from each other, they clearly belong in the same family, especially when compared to desktop/laptop apps.

So to make an analogy, iPad and iPhone apps are like wolfs and dogs, while desktop/laptop apps are cats . What you are doing is focusing on a difference between dogs and wolves -- that one is domesticated and one is not -- and insisting that everyone must think of that distinction as the most important.

A biologist is going to say that dogs and wolves are pretty much the same, and they can even interbreed. He's not going to place as much importance on the domestication factor. But to a farmer, a dog is a trusted helper, and a wolf is a dangerous predator. A farmer might get understandably upset if he thinks a biologist is treating dogs and wolves as variants of the same category. A biologist would be exasperated at the farmer's short-sightedness in insisting that dogs and wolves are different when they obviously share so many characteristics.

It's all a matter of perspective, is what I'm trying to say.

But the MBA and Mac Pro are still in different categories (or subcategories, if you prefer). One is an ultraportable laptop and the other is a desktop. Sure, they both belong to the category of "personal computer," but that's too vague and general. These are two highly distinct product categories with their own unique advantages and disadvantages, despite their obvious similarities

Well, but from a software development perspective, nobody makes a "MacBook Air" app, or a "Mac Pro" app. So in that sense, the distinctions among various types of desktop/laptop aren't as important as the distinctions among different-sized multi-touch devices, as you also mentioned. And it is because of this that I do feel suspicious of the "tweener" size tablet. Unlike freudling, I'm not going to say tweeners are destined to fail, but since the size difference between an iPhone and iPad does necessitate, for most apps, a separately designed UI for that particular size device, then there is a likelihood that the tweener tablet also needs its own UI, different from both the iPad and the iPhone. If Apple and the devs don't provide such an optimized UI for the tweener, then the user experience may not be as good as either the iPhone or the iPad. And I do think this is what freudling is claiming about the Nexus 7, that the user experience is inferior because the UI is not optimized for it, but he's going about it in an antagonistic and needlessly argumentative way.

 

[Renzatic]

LOL, well i dont know.

I dont get the Sexus name that he thinks it sounds funny. Kinda dumb if you ask me.

Heh. I think he wants to call it the Suxus, but...yeah...he ain't doing it right.

I'd still recommend giving it a good washing if you buy it from him, though. Just in case.

 

[TheMacBookPro]

Right, and how does me doing the same in addition to doing more make me a troll?

Your 'comparison' proved nothing other than mobile websites were designed for small screens, and that desktop websites are far more usable on the Nexus 7 than on the iPhone. Your piece of paper saying 'suck it' also shows that you are rather immature. Nothing surprising at all- the first two were expected, and the last tidbit of information shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone who you've insulted (i.e., anyone who has an opinion differing from yours).

A troll is someone who posts with the intention of inciting an angry response. Calling others delusional and saying that they're lying without anything to back it up seems to fit that description well.

 

[freudling]

Nope. Not sure what would have you thinking that. Even if I was, it would be irrelevant.

Finally a sane person on here who's not caught up in the endless personal attacks and general BS from the same old clan.

 

[NovaRev]

A biologist is going to say that dogs and wolves are pretty much the same, and they can even interbreed. He's not going to place as much importance on the domestication factor. But to a farmer, a dog is a trusted helper, and a wolf is a dangerous predator. A farmer might get understandably upset if he thinks a biologist is treating dogs and wolves as variants of the same category. A biologist would be exasperated at the farmer's short-sightedness in insisting that dogs and wolves are different when they obviously share so many characteristics.

It's all a matter of perspective, is what I'm trying to say.

I understand the analogy you're making but I think it's a little bit flawed. A developer needs to be able to see and understand both perspectives in order to execute their job successfully.

You cannot develop apps in the vacuum of your own ideology, divorced from the realities of the different ways people use different devices.

 

[freudling]

Your 'comparison' proved nothing other than mobile websites were designed for small screens, and that desktop websites are far more usable on the Nexus 7 than on the iPhone. Your piece of paper saying 'suck it' also shows that you are rather immature. Nothing surprising at all- the first two were expected, and the last tidbit of information shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone who you've insulted (i.e., anyone who has an opinion differing from yours).

A troll is someone who posts with the intention of inciting an angry response. Calling others delusional and saying that they're lying without anything to back it up seems to fit that description well.

No, they are not FAR MORE usable on a Nexus 7. That statement is baseless and has ZERO support. My posts clearly show in those pictures that the full blown Websites LOOK BETTER on the iPhone. Therefore, it is NOT the case that the Nexus is far more usable. Period.

And he did lie. He said he owns a Nexus and was challenged to post pictures. Hi ignored only that part of my posts: everything else he responds to... and he engages in personal attacks. His silence on posting pictures of his Nexus 7 speaks volumes of him. Of someone that argues on the Internet with people just for the sake of it. And that suck it has nothing to do with you. It's between me and another poster who constantly trolls and engages in personal attacks. He deserves what he gets.