Tablets Thoughts on the Nexus 7 - My experience so far...

[Renzatic]

Playing devil's advocate here, the Nexus 7 being smaller could mean you're holding it slightly closer to your face, which would mean it requires a higher PPI count to be "retina".

But you've got to see this from Freudling's reasoning here, which is "this number is bigger, this number is smaller, therefore the bigger number wins" without actually understanding whys the hows, the whats, or even the ultimately small difference between the two. We're talking a small deficit in pixel density between the two devices. What was it? 210ish PPI vs 250ish or something? Not a vast amount. You can explain that to him, but he'll keep saying the same thing over and over again. "The iPad is retina, that means you can't see the pixels. That means it's better".

...well, yeah. Technically that's true. But can you count the individual pixels on the Nexus display? I doubt it. It might not be retina, but it's still got a sharp display. Sure, you'd be more likely to notice aliasing on it in comparison to the iPad 3, but you'll have to go out of your way to see it.

 

[knucklehead]

You're probably not going to get anywhere with people like knucklehead because they keep posting things over and over that demonstrate they lack an understanding of software development and interface design.

The larger point I made was that you can't just keep the UI the same with varying screens because the UI will get 'messed up'. For instance, you can't just scale down an iPad App, like the iBooks App to the size where it would fit an iPhone screen. Buttons would be tiny, some features overlapping, it doesn't make any sense. In a similar fashion, you can't leave all of the buttons the same size and try to position them on screen: they'll overlap each other because the screen is far too small. It's why you have to design new interfaces for different sized screens, which is exactly what Apple has done with the iBookstore and other Apps on the iPhone: it's a simplified UI compared to the iPad version because their's LESS room for UI elements. And UI elements can be seen to actually be FARTHER apart from one another (check Safari on your iPhone vs. your iPad... back and forward buttons) because Apple knows that people use that smaller screen with their thumbs: the meatiest pointing device on your hand. You need more space in between UI elements to mitigate spurious inputs.

And again, there you go making no sense.
First you prove my point that the small screened iPhone cannot run the same apps as the iPad, and then mix that up with how a 7.85 iPad app would work.

None of this is to be confused with having MINIMUM sized touch targets, which is a whole other conversation.

But back to your point, I've actually scaled the iPad iBookstore App down to the size where it'd fit an iPhone screen. The result is absurd. I demonstrated before how the size of the touch targets scale down much faster when you just try and scale an App down without making any other changes: they get too small too fast. The buttons on the iBookstore are tiny, for instance, and on the Tweener, the buttons are still too small.

Again you state the obvious as if you're delivering some sort of revelation.
iPad apps won't scale down to iPhone size. They can scale down to 7.85" size, and the touch interface will stay within Apple's Human Interface Guidelines.

Anyway, another point to knucklehead:

The iPad and the iPhone use the EXACT same operating system. To argue that the operating systems are different when run on a different screen size is absurd. There is NO difference between them whatsoever. Zero. Nothing. The only difference is scale of the OS. It's like saying Windows is a different operating system on laptops with a 17" screen compared to ones with a 12" screen. Screen size has nothing to do with the operating system and the hardware architecture. Both the operating system and the hardware architecture are the same on the iPad and the iPhone. And the iPod Touch. The hardware here is different than what OS X runs on. And the input method for iPod Touches, iPads, and iPhones is different than point and click devices running OS X, but are themselves the exact same: multi-touch.

Yet again, you manage to make no sense.
Point out where I said anything about the operating system.
I was talking about apps, which are something different than the OS ... if you're not aware.


Thus, devices running iOS are in a category by themselves, whereas those running OS X are in their own category. These are different devices. One's meant for mobility, the other productivity.

q

 

[The iGentleman]

I see what you're saying, but the Nexus 7 has a smaller display than the iPad, thus making the smaller pixel count still "retina-like" for it's screen size.

Exactly. lol I can't believe we're agreeing on something. He doesn't seem to get it. What's funnier is, he doesn't even know what ppi and what distance it would have to be for it to be "retina". What he doesn't realize is the 300ppi number has no relevance when we're talking about something that can be held as much as 24" away from the eye. Until he provides something concrete showing the necessary distance and ppi, he's got no leg to stand on.

 

[batting1000]

Exactly. lol I can't believe we're agreeing on something. He doesn't seem to get it. What's funnier is, he doesn't even know what ppi and what distance it would have to be for it to be "retina". What he doesn't realize is the 300ppi number has no relevance when we're talking about something that can be held as much as 24" away from the eye. Until he provides something concrete showing the necessary distance and ppi, he's got no leg to stand on.

Lol, yes! The bigger the screen, the bigger the ppi count needed to make it retina-eligible.

 

[The iGentleman]

Hey buddy. Silly people like you who can't do math make themself look silly all the time. Let's see if you can figure out why the Nexus 7 needs closer to 300 ppi to be Retina.

iGentenlemen: "Arrrgh [blue in the face]. I'll show you!"

That 300ppi number you keep throwing out there is for a ppi of 300 at a distance of 11". Just saying "closer to 300" means nothing. You don't even know what qualifies as "retina". So I tell you what, post something showing what the necessary distance and ppi is for a tablet to be "retina". Tablets can be held as much as 24" away from the face, so let us know what the necessary ppi would have to be, since you obviously must know... since you said the Nexus 7 doesn't qualify. I'll be waiting on your answer. Until then, you have no leg to stand on. Prove it or keep quiet.

 

[Vegastouch]

Playing devil's advocate here, the Nexus 7 being smaller could mean you're holding it slightly closer to your face, which would mean it requires a higher PPI count to be "retina".

But you've got to see this from Freudling's reasoning here, which is "this number is bigger, this number is smaller, therefore the bigger number wins" without actually understanding whys the hows, the whats, or even the ultimately small difference between the two. We're talking a small deficit in pixel density between the two devices. What was it? 210ish PPI vs 250ish or something? Not a vast amount. You can explain that to him, but he'll keep saying the same thing over and over again. "The iPad is retina, that means you can't see the pixels. That means it's better".

...well, yeah. Technically that's true. But can you count the individual pixels on the Nexus display? I doubt it. It might not be retina, but it's still got a sharp display. Sure, you'd be more likely to notice aliasing on it in comparison to the iPad 3, but you'll have to go out of your way to see it.

I agree. I dont have or tablet but i do think the iPad 3 screen is beautiful from seeing it in Best Buy. I have not seen a Nexus 7 screen but from others remarks, id bet it is a nice screen too. And if both are nice, that wouldnt be my #1 priority. The size and functions would be.

I probably will not get a Tablet that requires data, just wi-fi only as i really dont NEED a tablet, it is just a conveinient toy to use at home mostly for the Wife who uses a iPod to look at stuff such as TMZ and whatever else she likes on that tiny screen. She doesnt have a phone with data and im having a hard time to convince her to get a smartphone.
She doesnt use the computer much either so it isnt a big deal to her but id like to get her a bigger screen to look at and a 7" tablet would be perfect. Just think a 10" tablet might be too big and @ $499, it costs too much.

Not to mention iTunes would just frustrate her. Last i used iTunes, you had to delete things in there to remove it from your device and then update it or it will reappear next time you plug it in.... instead of just being able to do it from the device wirelessly.That should be a no brainer change but i havent used iTunes for over two years and didnt like it then.

So i guess what im saying is this PPI talk in this thread is irelevent if both screens look nice. I dont need the best one. Function and price are more important.

 

[knucklehead]

So i guess what im saying is this PPI talk in this thread is irelevent if both screens look nice. I dont need the best one. Function and price are more important.

As would just about everyone else...

From the anandtech review:

The Nexus 7's display is somewhere between good and perfection. It's not on the latter end of the spectrum, but it's great for $199. Black levels are good, and max brightness is more than enough for indoor use, although you'll have problems outdoors if it's too sunny.
Read more at http://www.anandtech.com/show/6073/the-google-nexus-7-review/3#AmfDRxJqpx1jDgHc.99

 

[freudling]

I see what you're saying, but the Nexus 7 has a smaller display than the iPad, thus making the smaller pixel count still "retina-like" for it's screen size.

The iPad has almost 50 more ppi compared to the Nexus. The screen is much larger on the iPad. Because of this u hold the device farther from your eyes. The smaller the device, the closer you hold it: it's why ppi has to increase with smaller screens to qualify as Retina (iPhone has 326 poi). The Nexus 7 has to have even more ppi than the iPad 3 to qualify as Retina because the screen is held cliser to the eyes: for the average user not to be able to discern individual pixels.

If you do the math on Retina you'll find the Nexus 7 needs closer to 300 ppi to qualify as Retina, or about 75 more ppi than it has now.

While its screen is decent, I can reliably discern individual pixels. This is most evident with text.

 

[knucklehead]

The iPad has almost 50 more ppi compared to the Nexus. The screen is much larger on the iPad. Because of this u hold the device farther from your eyes. The smaller the device, the closer you hold it: it's why ppi has to increase with smaller screens to qualify as Retina (iPhone has 326 poi). The Nexus 7 has to have even more ppi than the iPad 3 to qualify as Retina because the screen is held cliser to the eyes: for the average user not to be able to discern individual pixels.

If you do the math on Retina you'll find the Nexus 7 needs closer to 300 ppi to qualify as Retina, or about 75 more ppi than it has now.

While its screen is decent, I can reliably discern individual pixels. This is most evident with text.

Clearly, not everyone agrees with you:

The resolution is high enough that neither Brian nor I were able to identify individual pixels at our normal viewing distances. Images do look better on the new iPad however (not a resolution but rather a panel advantage).
Read more at http://www.anandtech.com/show/6073/the-google-nexus-7-review/3#AmfDRxJqpx1jDgHc.99

 

[Night Spring]

If you do the math on Retina you'll find the Nexus 7 needs closer to 300 ppi to qualify as Retina, or about 75 more ppi than it has now.

While its screen is decent, I can reliably discern individual pixels. This is most evident with text.

Okay, stop. Nobody is arguing that the Nexus 7 screen qualifies as retina, or that it is as good as the iPad 3 screen. But many people are saying it is good enough *for them*. That's a personal choice. You can argue until you are blue in the face that it isn't good enough *for you*, but nobody will care.

 

[freudling]

Okay, stop. Nobody is arguing that the Nexus 7 screen qualifies as retina, or that it is as good as the iPad 3 screen. But many people are saying it is good enough *for them*. That's a personal choice. You can argue until you are blue in the face that it isn't good enough *for you*, but nobody will care.

I've got no problem with this, I do have a problem with people constantly trolling and twisting and turning reality.

 

[The iGentleman]

Lol, yes! The bigger the screen, the bigger the ppi count needed to make it retina-eligible.

This is unbelievable. We've agreed twice in a day! lol. But what's right is right, and you sir are right!

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The iPad has almost 50 more ppi compared to the Nexus. The screen is much larger on the iPad. Because of this u hold the device farther from your eyes. The smaller the device, the closer you hold it: it's why ppi has to increase with smaller screens to qualify as Retina (iPhone has 326 poi). The Nexus 7 has to have even more ppi than the iPad 3 to qualify as Retina because the screen is held cliser to the eyes: for the average user not to be able to discern individual pixels.

If you do the math on Retina you'll find the Nexus 7 needs closer to 300 ppi to qualify as Retina, or about 75 more ppi than it has now.

While its screen is decent, I can reliably discern individual pixels. This is most evident with text.

You're talking nonsense, and just pulling stuff out of your behind. Talk facts. Like I said, give some hard numbers to back it up, not your ridiculous speculation. FYI, a 7" tab doesn't have to be held any closer than a 10". That said, bring some hard facts to back up your claims. Show us something that shows both the distance and required ppi for pixels to no longer be discernable. Until you bring some actual facts to back up what you state, you're just pissing in the wind. Just like you always ask people to make videos....I'm asking you to bring some facts to the table. Until you bring some facts, just keep it shut

 

[batting1000]

This is unbelievable. We've agreed twice in a day! lol. But what's right is right, and you sir are right!

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You're talking nonsense, and just pulling stuff out of your behind. Talk facts. Like I said, give some hard numbers to back it up, not your ridiculous speculation. FYI, a 7" tab doesn't have to be held any closer than a 10". That said, bring some hard facts to back up your claims. Show us something that shows both the distance and required ppi for pixels to no longer be discernable. Until you bring some actual facts to back up what you state, you're just pissing in the wind. Just like you always ask people to make videos....I'm asking you to bring some facts to the table. Until you bring some facts, just keep it shut

Exactly. I don't hold my iPhone any closer to my face than my iPad.

 

[freudling]

That 300ppi number you keep throwing out there is for a ppi of 300 at a distance of 11". Just saying "closer to 300" means nothing. You don't even know what qualifies as "retina". So I tell you what, post something showing what the necessary distance and ppi is for a tablet to be "retina". Tablets can be held as much as 24" away from the face, so let us know what the necessary ppi would have to be, since you obviously must know... since you said the Nexus 7 doesn't qualify. I'll be waiting on your answer. Until then, you have no leg to stand on. Prove it or keep quiet.

Once again you twist and turn things and misunderstand. I said closer to 300 ppi for the Nexus 7 to keep it simple because there's various calculations you can do with different results. This is not to be confused with the benchmark that Apple put out of 300 ppi at a distance of ~11" being the magical spot where the human eye can't discern individual pixels on a screen. Apple's benchmark seems to have ended up with the iPhone, with 326 ppi at an average distance of 10". I imagine this accounts for variability.

With these assumptions, depending on how you calculate things, the Nexus 7 could need between 289 and 314 ppi to qualify as a Retina display.

On the most basic analysis, if you stick the Nexus in the middle of the iPad and iPhone, the average person would hold it about 12.5" away from their eyes (iPhone 10", iPad 15"). 326+264/2=295 ppi.

Another way of looking at it: in the case of the iPhone and the iPad, Apple takes off 12.4 ppi for each inch you hold the device farther from your face. If you hold the Nexus an average 3" farther from your face than the iPhone, or at 13", it would need ppi = 326-(12.4*3). 289 ppi.

The following image refers:

http://i.stack.imgur.com/zWfta.jpg

Anyone can play with the calculations, including using the alpha equation. Apple's assumptions and their Retina display technology has held up to scrutiny. That the assumptions have been found to be valid by several experts.

In other words, there is a natural distance a device is held from the face and that distance plays a key role in the number of ppi required so a person can't discern individual pixels. There is also a benchmark in terms of the minimum number of ppi required at x distance for a person not to be able to discern individual pixels. While the Nexus 7 has a nice display, it doesn't qualify as a Retina display because it would need a significant increase in the number of ppi it has: another ~75+.

http://apple.stackexchange.com/ques...most-pixels-of-any-tablets-displa/44222#44222

----------

This is unbelievable. We've agreed twice in a day! lol. But what's right is right, and you sir are right!

----------



You're talking nonsense, and just pulling stuff out of your behind. Talk facts. Like I said, give some hard numbers to back it up, not your ridiculous speculation. FYI, a 7" tab doesn't have to be held any closer than a 10". That said, bring some hard facts to back up your claims. Show us something that shows both the distance and required ppi for pixels to no longer be discernable. Until you bring some actual facts to back up what you state, you're just pissing in the wind. Just like you always ask people to make videos....I'm asking you to bring some facts to the table. Until you bring some facts, just keep it shut

In other words, you've just been schooled, again.

 

[The iGentleman]

Once again you twist and turn things and misunderstand. I said closer to 300 ppi for the Nexus 7 to keep it simple because there's various calculations you can do with different results. This is not to be confused with the benchmark that Apple put out of 300 ppi at a distance of ~11" being the magical spot where the human eye can't discern individual pixels on a screen. Apple's benchmark seems to have ended up with the iPhone, with 326 ppi at an average distance of 10". I imagine this accounts for variability.

With these assumptions, depending on how you calculate things, the Nexus 7 could need between 289 and 314 ppi to qualify as a Retina display.

On the most basic analysis, if you stick the Nexus in the middle of the iPad and iPhone, the average person would hold it about 12.5" away from their eyes (iPhone 10", iPad 15"). 326+264/2=295 ppi.

Another way of looking at it: in the case of the iPhone and the iPad, Apple takes off 12.4 ppi for each inch you hold the device farther from your face. If you hold the Nexus an average 3" farther from your face than the iPhone, or at 13", it would need ppi = 326-(12.4*3). 289 ppi.

The following image refers:

http://i.stack.imgur.com/zWfta.jpg

Anyone can play with the calculations, including using the alpha equation. Apple's assumptions and their Retina display technology has held up to scrutiny. That the assumptions have been found to be valid by several experts.

In other words, there is a natural distance a device is held from the face and that distance plays a key role in the number of ppi required so a person can't discern individual pixels. There is also a benchmark in terms of the minimum number of ppi required at x distance for a person not to be able to discern individual pixels. While the Nexus 7 has a nice display, it doesn't qualify as a Retina display because it would need a significant increase in the number of ppi it has: another ~75+.

http://apple.stackexchange.com/ques...most-pixels-of-any-tablets-displa/44222#44222

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In other words, you've just been schooled, again.

No...actually you've schooled nothing. You've again just pulled numbers out of your behind. First, of all Apple based the 300ppi number on 11" not 10. Furthermore, you assert a person is going to hold a 7" tablet 12.5" from their face. You just pulled that number out of your behind. Nobody in their right mind is going to hold a tablet a foot away from their face. The very notion of that is flat out stupid. Furthermore, your made up math "sticks the nexus in the middle of the iPad and iPhone. Unfortunately, it's not in the middle of the iPad and iPhone. The iPhone's display is 3.5", while the iPad's display is 9.7". Meanwhile the Nexus 7 is 7", that is not a middle point between those two sizes, thus your "stick it in the middle" makes no sense. To take it even further, your calculation makes no sense as that is not how discernable pixels is calculated. At every distance, there is a certain ppi a device needs to be so that the human eye at 20/20 vision cannot discern the pixels. You have failed to address hat, as it would seem you don't know what those distances are. BTW, that 15" number you threw out there, is just what many sites speculated as being the distance used in the iPad's measurement, HOWEVER, what they don't know is what ppi number is needed for the pixels to not be distinguishable and thus "retina". You know why they don't know? Because it was never stated. You can't say "Apples take off 12.4 ppi for every inch", because you don't even know what the "retina" ppi threshold is at 15" to even make that determination. For all you know the iPad could be above that threshold just like the iPhone is above the 11" threshold. So again, I'd love to see how you intend to prove your point, considering you have absolutely no facts to back it up at all. You've proved nothing more than the fact you know how to blow hot air and pull useless numbers out of your behind. Now run along, you've done enough making a spectacle of yourself for one day.

 

[CylonGlitch]

This is my take. I'll wait until the end of the year. If Apple comes out with the iPad3 7" (or maybe even an iPad2 7") for the same price point $249 or less ($199 would be killer) I'll buy it for my kids for Christmas. If they don't; I'll buy them the Nexus7.

Let me add this as well. I'm in the market for a tablet; I'd love a full iPad3 . . . but the price hurts. Nexus7 seems to have done it right, but I really don't like google as a company. BUT I am very tempted to pick up a Nexus7 just to play with it. If the iPad mini or whatever doesn't pan out soon, I may just buy one for myself to play with.

 

[freudling]

No...actually you've schooled nothing. You've again just pulled numbers out of your behind.

This is going to be fun. Are you ready? Of course you are, that's why you keep reading and keep coming back because you're not confident in your answers and you have some inkling of the huge dark space inside your mind.

I said: ...with the benchmark that Apple put out of 300 ppi at a distance of ~11"...

You read it, then you say:

First, of all Apple based the 300ppi number on 11" not 10.

You need to reread your stuff more than 5 times to make sure it sticks.

Furthermore, you assert a person is going to hold a 7" tablet 12.5" from their face. You just pulled that number out of your behind. Nobody in their right mind is going to hold a tablet a foot away from their face. The very notion of that is flat out stupid.

I never pulled any number out of anyone's behind. I used it as a simple example for people like you to show how a device that is effectively an in between device such as the Nexus could have its Retina ppi determined at an in between distance: in between 10 and 15". I never asserted anything, including that people would in fact hold the device that far from their face.

But from everyone measured here in the office the numbers are spot on. What about other people though? Turns out, some other people are saying the 10" for the iPhone and the 15" for the iPad are close and even spot on... that people do hold the device that far from their face, and even farther. Pretty flat out stupid, eh!

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1336685/

Furthermore, your made up math "sticks the nexus in the middle of the iPad and iPhone. Unfortunately, it's not in the middle of the iPad and iPhone. The iPhone's display is 3.5", while the iPad's display is 9.7". Meanwhile the Nexus 7 is 7", that is not a middle point between those two sizes, thus your "stick it in the middle" makes no sense. To take it even further, your calculation makes no sense as that is not how discernable pixels is calculated.

Trying even to illustrate something in the simplest of terms is still even to complicated for you. Let's learn the A, B, Cs again.

A. The larger the screen, the farther it's held from your face.
B. The Nexus 7 has a bigger screen than the iPhone, and a smaller screen than the iPad.
A+B= the Nexus 7 is held farther from the face than the iPhone, and closer than the iPad. If the iPad has a known value (264 ppi), we can deduce that the Nexus 7 must have a greater number of ppi than the iPad under Apple's Retina scale. That this must be the case. Therefore, the 216 ppi that the Nexus 7 has right now does not qualify as a Retina display because its pixels are not dense enough at the distance it would be held from the face (more than 10" and less than 15").

To reduce you to absurdity, and to keep things really dead simple:

Using Apple's benchmark of 300 ppi at 11": if the Nexus were held at 11" from the face, it would need 300 ppi to qualify as a Retina. It has 216 ppi, 84 ppi short. If it were held an extra inch from the face, at 12"... 1 foot... which is "just stupid! and can't be so!... nobody would hold it that far from their face!..."

It would need slightly less ppi. On your incredulous take... people will hold the Nexus 7 closer to their face... which means that anything under 11" will mean the ppi will have to increase, ever widening the gap between the 216 ppi that it currently has and the 300+ that it'll need.

At every distance, there is a certain ppi a device needs to be so that the human eye at 20/20 vision cannot discern the pixels. You have failed to address hat, as it would seem you don't know what those distances are. BTW, that 15" number you threw out there, is just what many sites speculated as being the distance used in the iPad's measurement, HOWEVER, what they don't know is what ppi number is needed for the pixels to not be distinguishable and thus "retina". You know why they don't know? Because it was never stated. You can't say "Apples take off 12.4 ppi for every inch", because you don't even know what the "retina" ppi threshold is at 15" to even make that determination.

Well, by now you probably are fuming... so I'll save you the embarrassment other than to say that 15" is the benchmark distance Apple set for the iPad 3 and has it at 264 ppi. Full stop. At a normal distance 10" as in the iPhone, 264 ppi does NOT qualify as a Retina display as calculated using the equation Apple itself endorses.

http://apple.stackexchange.com/ques...most-pixels-of-any-tablets-displa/44222#44222

For all you know the iPad could be above that threshold just like the iPhone is above the 11" threshold. So again, I'd love to see how you intend to prove your point, considering you have absolutely no facts to back it up at all. You've proved nothing more than the fact you know how to blow hot air and pull useless numbers out of your behind. Now run along, you've done enough making a spectacle of yourself for one day.

A child is schooled once again.

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Clearly, not everyone agrees with you:

The resolution is high enough that neither Brian nor I were able to identify individual pixels at our normal viewing distances. Images do look better on the new iPad however (not a resolution but rather a panel advantage).
Read more at http://www.anandtech.com/show/6073/the-google-nexus-7-review/3#AmfDRxJqpx1jDgHc.99

The average human eye at the normal distance the Nexus is held from the eyes can discern the individual pixels. This is a fact. You are the exception. And I doubt anyone on here would believe you anyway: you are motivated not by truth but to simply argue.

 

[knucklehead]

The average human eye at the normal distance the Nexus is held from the eyes can discern the individual pixels. This is a fact. You are the exception. And I doubt anyone on here would believe you anyway: you are motivated not by truth but to simply argue.

Your inability to comprehend breaks into new territory -- it seems to be able to go everywhere!

I don't own a Nexus, and have never seen one.

That was clearly a quote from a professional review.

 

[freudling]

Your inability to comprehend breaks into new territory -- it seems to be able to go everywhere!

I don't own a Nexus, and have never seen one.

That was clearly a quote from a professional review.

My response is the same no matter if it's you or anyone else.

And the only thing to comprehend is that you waste your time arguing when you don't own the device. Quoting articles.

Go get the device and use it, then post in here.

 

[Vegastouch]

Again, screen clarity isn't my #1 priority. I dont care if the Nexus 7 can be classified as a retina display. That doesn't faze me one way or the other. Make the iPad 3 at least $299 and we have a discussion. Till then i like the $249 priced 16GB Nexus 7 better. Is the iPad3 that is $499 even a 16GB device or is it a 8GB?

 

[knucklehead]

My response is the same no matter if it's you or anyone else.

And the only thing to comprehend is that you waste your time arguing when you don't own the device. Quoting articles.

Go get the device and use it, then post in here.

The device isn't available, so I, and everyone else who might be interested in it, have to rely on others impressions -- that's what reviews are for.

Then, there's also internet forums, where users can post their impressions. People like to sort through these to help guide their purchasing decisions.

When the overwhelming majority of people think the display is excellent for a device at this price -- and there's one odd-ball that's endlessly ranting about problems with the screen -- you have to wonder what's the deal with that person ...

 

[Night Spring]

Is the iPad3 that is $499 even a 16GB device or is it a 8GB?

It's 16GB.

 

[Renzatic]

Lol, yes! The bigger the screen, the bigger the ppi count needed to make it retina-eligible.

Man, I hate to break up the bonding thing you and iGentleman got going on over this, but...oh man, I feel so bad...that's not right.

Remember, retina is defined by not being able to view pixels from normal viewing distance. So the larger the screen, the farther you can stand back from it, and the lower the the PPI density required to achieve...retina.

You can even see it in Apple's own stuff. The iPhone has the smallest screen of all their products at 3.5", but sports the highest pixel density at 326 PPI. Next is the iPad, which is the next step down at 264 PPI on a 9.whatever" screen. Last but certainly not least is the rMBP, which is a 15" monitor at 220 PPI.

Going by this, you could say that a 42" 1920x1080 screen is retina, because you can't discern the individual pixels from the couch.

But really, the whole retina thing is sorta marketing BS. Think about it. Apple has all this math going on, all these rules and regulations and measurements about what makes retina retina. Yet every product they've upgraded to that status happened to get there by perfectly quadrupling the screen. It's like...

320x480? UH UH! DOUBLE UP ON X AND Y TO 640x960! RETTTINNNNAA!

1024x768? BAM! 2048x1536! RETTTIINNAA!

1440x900? WHOOOSSH! 2880x1800! WHOOOAA!

So they multiplied everything x 2. That was easy! Then they made up some cool sounding rules and a kickass name so it sounds even more awesome!

I can't deny the iPad 3, the iPhone, and the rMBP look good. Hell, the reason I bought my iPhone and iPad, and the reason why I'm deeply considering getting the rMBP is because of the retina display. But comeon, all the rules are subjective as hell. Average viewing distance to achieve? Like everyone holds their devices exactly wah inches away from their face.

If I hold my iPad at arms length, does that make it...super retina? If I look at a 72" 720p LCD TV from 200 feet away, is that...ultra retina? Hell, why not just call it what it is? High pixel density.

 

[freudling]

The device isn't available, so I, and everyone else who might be interested in it, have to rely on others impressions -- that's what reviews are for.

Then, there's also internet forums, where users can post their impressions. People like to sort through these to help guide their purchasing decisions.

When the overwhelming majority of people think the display is excellent for a device at this price -- and there's one odd-ball that's endlessly ranting about problems with the screen -- you have to wonder what's the deal with that person ...

I don't care what other reviewers say. Anyone can look that up. It's about what you personally experience. And since you don't own it, it seems like a huge waste of everyone's time you continuing to post in here over and over again... the only sense that can be made out of it is you simply like to argue, and that's your sole motivation.

Second, show me the data that supports the claim that an overwhelming majority think the device on the Nexus 7 is excellent.

Also, no, I'm not ranting about the problems with the Sexus, I'm pointing out that it's not a Retina screen and why it's not. And that I can actually myself see grainy text. Sometimes things are better: the screen is pretty sharp and so is the text, but it's variable. The iPhone and iPad blow it away in my experience. But science is on my side too.

 

[Renzatic]

Also, no, I'm not ranting about the problems with the Sexus, I'm pointing out that it's not a Retina screen and why it's not.

The sky is blue. Let us have an earnest discussion wherein we point out and inform people who might be ignorant of this fact.

Man. Everyone knows the Nexus 7 isn't a retina screen. You don't have to spell it out for us. What we're saying is that, retina though it isn't, THERE ISN'T A HUGE AMOUNT OF DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO!