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Fusion is interesting tech, but virtually useless for running older (or even current) versions of OS X. For someone like an audio engineer or musician, you basically have to boot the OS on the bare metal.

-SC

Absolutely! And as fast a boot drive as possible. Only way to really prototype or try a new OS...

Whoever suggested Drobo - that dog won't hunt :)
Or more precisely - Drobo is its own weird raid. No JBOD, no booting OSX and (I tried a Drobo mini) - noisy as heck to boot... just say no - to Drobo :)
 
If your going to plagiarize another article word for word, and pass it off as your own, at least provide a link to said article. So we can determine the validity of the article for ourselves.

While it was said USB 3.0 was not dependent on the CPU, I'm not sure that is quite true. I've found information in the past saying its still dependent on the CPU.

Sorry about that, I usually quote and link. Here you go: http://www.extremetech.com/computin...nges-thunderbolt-for-pcs-is-dead-in-the-water

You might like this too since you seem to prefer links.
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/0...ssues-can-thunderbolt-break-out-of-its-niche/
Regarding the USB, since you want reference links:
http://www.everythingusb.com/superspeed-usb.html
http://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/58695/usb-3-0
 
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LongSticks: "if your standard is FW - surely USB3 is a perfect option and 3.1 is out next year at TB1 speeds if req'd."

FW streams data, whereas USB streams packets data. And FW is usually uses a single controller that's dedicated for audio/video purposes. Since pro audio requires steady clocking and uninterruptible stability, USB is not an option.

Other usages are probably not that finicky.

Fair comment - I hadn't covered the audio side. But the post that was ongoing was over general storage, hence the speed comment.
 
VMware Fusion does not support accelerated graphics under an OS X guest. This makes everything painfully slow to operate. Likewise, there is no PCI pass through, nor is there pass through for anything other then USB devices. And the emulated sound card in Fusion has severe issues playing back even the system alerts, let alone a multitrack DAW project.

Fusion is interesting tech, but virtually useless for running older (or even current) versions of OS X. For someone like an audio engineer or musician, you basically have to boot the OS on the bare metal.

-SC

The guy mentioned debugging. None of your points have a meaningful impact in his use case, which I assume to be programming.
 
Did you read the only review --- not inspiring is it?

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Yes, Lacie, and Promise have products - but they are stuffed with 7200 rpm drives.

I love silence and I am all SSD. I like choosing my own performance level for drives! Totally prepared to get 2 EVO 1TB for storage and two 840 Pro 512's for working drives. But what can I put them in besides - J4 (can't boot from it) and Oyen Digital (a name I can trust?)....

another log on the fire :)

+1, there is just not a lot out there that makes good use of TB speeds and here we are now at TB-2 already. I would love for PCIe SSD's to come down in price to the point that someone like OWC makes a snazzy little enclosure that you could put two 1TB PCIe drives in and have a bus powered TB2 raid-0 drive that would take full advantage of the 1GB/s speeds of these new drives, the one in my new MacBook Pro is freaky fast.

I bet this stuff will come along, we are not even using SATA-III interfaces on any of the new machines, they are almost all PCIe at this point, that should tell us where the fastest storage options are going.

It's just been out of sync for a few years now, hopefully it will all get closer as prices come down due to demand and competition.
 
... I hoped that Apple would release it's own range of products, like PCIe docks, thumb drives, large multi drive HDD enclosures, 4k displays, external 10GigE network cards etc.

Not sure what that would have 'solved'. Apple doesn't supply every single possible peripheral for other ports. Why should Thunderbolt be any different. They don't do it on OS X or iOS ports.

Apple using megabucks to cover everything is far more likely to suppress the growth of the TB peripheral ecosystem than enable it over the long term. Apple would be competing with the peripheral partners.


All they ended up doing instead is releasing a bunch of thunderbolt to XYZ cables.

Revisionist history. The dongles were the last Thunderbolt non-system products Apple came out with.

2011 TB docking station display

https://www.macrumors.com/2011/09/15/thunderbolt-displays-shipping-to-customers/

2012 TB dongles

https://www.macrumors.com/2012/08/0...firewire-adapter-rolling-out-in-online-store/

The primary point of Thunderbolt is the first, not the trailing edge products.

With the immanent release of the nMP I can't help but feel that Apple has painted itself into a corner.

Start Thunderbolt roll out almost 3 years in advance and then release new Mac Pro. Would a bigger ecosystem be "safer"? Sure.... painted into a corner with no options. Not really.

If there is any "corner" Apple has painted themselves into it is having one and only one docking station display for the Mac Pro priced at $999. There are going to be more than a few Mini and Mac Pro users that need something a bit more affordable than that. Painted into a corner minimally even with the $999 only monitor in that it is at least one year stale at this point. The screen too glossy , the USB ports too old , etc.


The other corner is/was sleeping and snoring on a Mac Pro product management solution so long that the product was so old it had to be withdrawn from the EU market... That is a corner problem that Apple inflicted upon itself.


The only connectivity an expansion the nMBP has is thunderbolt,

The dual Ethernet ports and USB ports don't connect to anything... OK sure. (not). Highest speed expansion? Yes. Expansion period? No.


and there are only a few niche products.

You were expecting TB keyboards and TB mice? Thunderbolt was never design or intended to cover everything terminating solely on TB. It was always going to be a subset of peripherals that it covered. Connecting wider array of devices to that TB product was the primary design target.


I was hoping and I think Apple was hoping third party companies would step in with a wide range of solutions, but this doesn't seem to be happening.

It is happening but just not in some frenetic 49er, gold rush fashion. Intel has gated the flow of vendors into TB products. They were trying to avoid a race-to-the-bottom on quality and price that would hobble a new connectivity standard without an established track record. That was probably a wise move.


In fact there are tons of thunderbolt products that were paraded around last year's trade shows that I would like to have, but the majority of proposed thunderbolt products seem to have been canceled likely because the manufacturers saw that nobody cared.

In 2013 Intel ( perhaps with Apple input) shot themselves in the foot. Few vendors are going to want to come out with TB v1 products when Intel is going to spend most ( March-Nov) hyping TB v2 which Intel isn't going to supply in volume until Jan-Feb 2014.

It is not going to be surpring to see many vendors show up at CES 2014 with same TB products only tweaked for TB v2 and this time release because Intel isn't going to hype some TB v3 for most of 2014.

The targeted TB controller for 2013 added primarily DisplayPort v1.2 support ( getting folks ramped up for a more robust support of "4K video" in TB v2). Some minor cost drops but alot of the additional DP v1.2 support work vendors would have to do would be needed for TB v2 any. More than likely several vendors have waited until can weave the value add TB v2 in along with the increased overhead of the DP v1.2 support.

Acer loudly grumbled about TB and dropped out. But that is as much about Acer having screwed up in general ( CEO was dismissed for poor performance a couple months later) as it was about Thunderbolt. TB isn't about the bottom, razor margins where Acer tends to hang out.

USB 3.1 FUD likely put a damper on 2013 TB adoption also. Not only is TB v2 ("just around the corner") , USB 3.1 is coming too. While TB and USB don't largely overlap they do compete for the same set of limited PCI-e lanes (at least until USB 3.1 moved into core chipsets which is likely 2 years out if not later. ). The reality of USB 3.1 showing up with plans with new sockets and the real constraints will sort out TB vs USB selections in new designs over time.


It seems like Thunderbolt isn't gaining adoption without Apple backing it with peripherals.

Apple making peripherals just for Apple products isn't going to move the overall PC peripheral market when it is single digits of the overall market. The 90+ % is going to more the majority of that market.

Apple dropped 10-12M Thunderbolt capable systems onto the market the last 2 years. That is stimulative to the TB economical, but isn't magical in impact but it hardly a small contribution. If there are delayed gap problems it is far more on the Apple system software side than in Apple labeled hardware. ( that and being Scrooge McDuck with the investment pool they have available. Apple spends money on enabling higher production in some Chinese chop shop but can't fund innovative TB products to market. )
 
The guy mentioned debugging. None of your points have a meaningful impact in his use case, which I assume to be programming.

I am "the guy" - and debugging in this instance is debugging new operating systems to work with high end audio setups. Pro audio has always been very touchy with both the hardware and the OS. It has been SOP for 15 years to only try a new rev of your main program or an OS update (even "dot" release - 10.8.5 caused havoc in my world) on a clone of a working one. Then one debugs all their plug ins etc... (probably a bad choice of words on my part :)...

--------------
My only real moan with TB is storage - and it is my own pickiness that cases it.

- I need to add 4 drives to my set up (and they can't be USB3) and I only have one TB port open.
- It has to be SATA III internally to TB
- it has to let me choose what drives go in it
- I prefer SSD or 2.5" only - smallish would be nice
- It is going in an audio control room so silent or super quiet fan is very important
- Have to be able to boot from it

Choices -
Single drive case with 2 TB ports - zero
Oyen Digital (maybe - don't know anyone using these for audio - no idea about fan noise)
Akitio Nuetrino - never heard of them - one review and its DOA - no idea about fan
 
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In my opinion the problem with Thunderbolt lies in the fact that it requires a video signal to be fed into the thunderbolt controller.

That doesn't necessarily solve the issue. Despite the general early diagrams and discussions that just identified two inputs like the following

lightridge_thunderbold_inside_600px.png

[ from "Everything you need to know about Thunderbolt" http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/thunderbolt-performance-z77a-gd80,3205-4.html. ]

The NHI is the "native host interface" which is largely decoupled from Dispay Port in the diagram. Dropping DP is still going to leave the NHI there. Pragmatically not all of the NHI is purely over PCI-e.

The reality is closer to the compromised new solutions Intel is outlining standards for.

TBT2-101.jpg

[ The title of this story, "Intel is looking to PCIe expansion cards to save Thunderbolt". is journalistic hype. There is about zero support for the assertion in the article's facts. It doesn't even make it past the first sentence of the article. http://vr-zone.com/articles/thunderbolts-great-pcie-hope/50677.html ]

PCI-e , DisplayPort , and GPIO are inputs to Thunderbolt controllers. If don't have all three then are issues. Even if drop DP still have more than just one.



In theory, having data and video (which is just data in a special format) on one cable sounds like a good idea.

Doesn't just sound like a good idea, it is a good idea for a wide range of PC systems sold. Most of those are not "boxes with slots".

But in practice this means that it's nearly impossible to add Thunderbolt to an existing machine or to increase the number of thunderbolt ports in a machine which already has thunderbolt.

No, in practice Thunderbolt can't be added to most newer systems whether drop DP or not. Most systems don't have an "add to" at Thunderbolt levels of bandwidth. In fact, that is exactly the one of the primary markets that Thunderbolt addresses to provision the "add to" capability.

If you want to narrow down to a relatively shrinking subset then sure there are a number of legacy interface boxes that can't be updated with Thunderbolt. Thunderbolt isn't particularly trying to solve the problems of the past. It is aimed at problems of the future. Which as the future arrives the adoption rate will probably go up. If want to "time machine" back to the past it is going to be substantially less effective.

The vast bulk of legacy "boxes with slots" even if get around the GPIO issue have either oversubscribed or grossly oversubscribed PCI-e bandwidth allocations to any x4 slot where this expansion would happen. Thunderbolt with the underlying PCI-e bandwidth chopped out from underneath it isn't particularly going to greatly expand the ecosystem. It is going to fall into the same "over promise and under deliver" zone that USB peddles, but without the lower costs.

On the vast bulk of systems sold 3-4 years access to a DP output is not a problem. If have a CPU there is DP output. The notion that DP output being available on the motherboard as being some "rare" resource doesn't match up with reality.



[qute]
With firewire, when you had the option between a less stable USB audio module or the better firewire based module, you could simply buy the better firewire module and add an firewire controller card for another 100 $. This was a no brainer.
and largely entirely moot on widespread impact until there was relatively widespread adoption by several segments of the peripheral market with large enough footprints to drive demand.


My guess is Thunderbolt will see much more adoption if the display signal requirement is dropped.

Marginally more. Even if vendors to the PCI-e+GPIO+DisplayPort cards for "boxes with slots" they'll be optional. Most of the time the slot will either never get filled or the customers will buy the cheaper board variant with it dropped.

Enabling a Xeon E5 ( Workstation) variant that drops DP for systems that don't have easy access to a iGPU isn't going to be big bump. That market isn't particularly bigger than the whole Mac market in size over the last 2 years. If the Mac market wasn't a major market mover then even 50% bigger isn't likely going to make a huge difference on adoption speed.

The speed of adoption is not necessary the most important criteria for long term success. Sustained growth over time is more important that short term speed.
 
When Intel announced thunderbolt and Apple backed it, I hoped that Apple would release it's own range of products, like PCIe docks, thumb drives, large multi drive HDD enclosures, 4k displays, external 10GigE network cards etc.


Does anyone else feel this way?

No. Why should Apple produce hundreds of products?

PCie docks - already being sold by the likes of Sonnet, mLogic and Magma

Thumb Drives - currently no one is producing a thumb drive that requires TB levels of bandwidth.

Large multi drive HDD enclosures - Promise, Lacie, WD, Areca, Netstor, Drobo and GTech have this covered.

4K displays - You can connect the Sharp, Asus and Dell 4K displays using DP 1.2 that comes with TB2.

External 10 GbE - companies like ATTO will sell this to you right now via the Apple store, or other channels.

----------

I am "the guy" - and debugging in this instance is debugging new operating systems to work with high end audio setups. Pro audio has always been very touchy with both the hardware and the OS. It has been SOP for 15 years to only try a new rev of your main program or an OS update (even "dot" release - 10.8.5 caused havoc in my world) on a clone of a working one. Then one debugs all their plug ins etc... (probably a bad choice of words on my part :)...

--------------
My only real moan with TB is storage - and it is my own pickiness that cases it.

- I need to add 4 drives to my set up (and they can't be USB3) and I only have one TB port open.
- It has to be SATA III internally to TB
- it has to let me choose what drives go in it
- I prefer SSD or 2.5" only - smallish would be nice
- It is going in an audio control room so silent or super quiet fan is very important
- Have to be able to boot from it

Choices -
Single drive case with 2 TB ports - zero
Oyen Digital (maybe - don't know anyone using these for audio - no idea about fan noise)
Akitio Nuetrino - never heard of them - one review and its DOA - no idea about fan

Sorry, mate, my bad. I would go with the blackmagic dock. It seems to suit your needs.
 
Pro audio rarely keeps pace with the cutting edge. ....

To the folks pointing to lack of large number of TB audio devices being a "problem" with Thunderbolt. The above is likely a much larger contributor to the slow adoption rate than any characteristic flaw of Thunderbolt.

Thunderbolt largely doesn't replace ports it displaces that in space. It isn't particularly a "USB" , "Firewire" , etc. port killer. It far more so enables those ports to be moved and then aggregated back to a host system. So for lots of audio vendors ( with either razor margins and/or limited R&D ) the cheaper solution is to tweak any USB/FW drivers and keep selling the same old stuff. (i.e., not keep pace with the cutting edge. )

The second path to the "do as little as possible" option is to just punt to external PCIe enclosures. Again sell same stuff and tweak any newly exposed driver glitches. After a while wrapping a custom TB enclosure around a PCI-e card will get easier and the vendors may increasing do that if the external closure prices don't start to come down over time. For now though, most are content to punt the risk onto someone else.
 
I am "the guy" - and debugging in this instance is debugging new operating systems to work with high end audio setups. Pro audio has always been very touchy with both the hardware and the OS. It has been SOP for 15 years to only try a new rev of your main program or an OS update (even "dot" release - 10.8.5 caused havoc in my world) on a clone of a working one. Then one debugs all their plug ins etc... (probably a bad choice of words on my part :)...

--------------
My only real moan with TB is storage - and it is my own pickiness that cases it.

- I need to add 4 drives to my set up (and they can't be USB3) and I only have one TB port open.
- It has to be SATA III internally to TB
- it has to let me choose what drives go in it
- I prefer SSD or 2.5" only - smallish would be nice
- It is going in an audio control room so silent or super quiet fan is very important
- Have to be able to boot from it

Choices -
Single drive case with 2 TB ports - zero
Oyen Digital (maybe - don't know anyone using these for audio - no idea about fan noise)
Akitio Nuetrino - never heard of them - one review and its DOA - no idea about fan
If you looking 4 x SATA 111 drives to TB and 2.5" drives then the Drobo mini is definitely an option.....not cheap but seems to fit your requirement for most of the above.....best to message Drobo about whether it's bootable.

http://www.drobo.co.uk/products/professionals/drobo-mini/

This is what I use 1tb 7200 drive for GIS info storage and then swap to SSD as a Cad scratch disk. Works really well, but doesn't completely match your requirements.

http://www.danmccomb.com/posts/2394/gearing-up-for-blackmagic-cinema-camera-ssd-dock/
 
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Sorry, mate, my bad. I would go with the blackmagic dock. It seems to suit your needs.

No worries :)

BM Multidock - only one TB port and believe it or not - only SATA II (3Gbps) controllers on the 4 ports - ughhh ... Still - may be my best choice today!

----------

If you looking 4 SATA 111 drives to TB and 2.5" drives then the Drobo mini is definitely an option.....not cheap but seems to fit your requirement For most of the above.....best to message Drobo about whether it's bootable.

http://www.drobo.co.uk/products/professionals/drobo-mini/

Thanks but actually owned one for a few days !

- Can't boot to it
- No JBOD mode
- is its own raid so only readable by DROBO
- noisy as heck...

besides that - worked fine :)

------------------------
If the Pegasus J4 was bootable it is another pretty good looking contender for me.

----------

Are you sure you want to use SSDs for recording? AFAIK, external SSDs can't do garbage collection so may eventually slow down.

Agreed - benefits still outweigh negatives for me. At some point I will just replace them. FWIW - I am still using a 5+ year old Kingston SSD that is performing well. If I were reading writing 24/7 on the drive that might drive different decisions. For me it is more like 20 to 40 hours a week of real use.
 
No worries :)

BM Multidock - only one TB port and believe it or not - only SATA II (3Gbps)

Only one TB is not the end of the world on the nMP, but I am surprised about the SATA II. However, I have now just realised that the specs are pretty misleading...

Here they mention SATA 3 (6 Gbs/s)
You also get a completely independent SATA 3 disk interface chip per disk slot so you never get slowdowns because of SATA bandwidth issues.

But here

4 x 2.5" SATA 3Gb/s.

I should have read the specifications more carefully. Very disappointing actually. Maybe it's worth getting in touch with Blackmagic to clarify this one. I am going to pop them an email next week.
 
This is one of the reason I do not trust much the nMP

PC looks like will not is not supporting TB

Lots of PC vendors are getting the butts kicked by tablets and other market issues. They have bigger drama dealing with next coupe of quarters as opposed to where the market is going. If they were geniuses about future directions they would not be getting hammered over last couple of years.

until than TB will be a glorified display port and USB 4 and 5 may be at the speed of TB

LOL. There was a 8-9 year gap between USB 2.0 and 3.0. One of the major contributors to why USB 3.1 showed up so quickly is Thunderbolt. USB 4 isn't coming any time soon. 5 isn't even someones wet dream. If Thunderbolt truely has no traction then USB 4 will more likely slid farther into the future than come in less than 3-4 years. The huge inertia of USB is dual edged sword.


If Thunderbolt has so little utility how come USB 3.0 is a in a big hurry to cover the same bandwidth zone as to where Thunderbolt started out at? TB v2 move is likely enough it can handle the initial set of USB 3.1 controllers that will come to market.


I remember the days when apple came out with firewire and PC with USB
and the fait started

Intel was a major driver behind USB. Also a major driver behind Thunderbolt. There is some push back by system vendors in that there is alot to digest under the current market conditions. Also that some kind of 'bait and switch" game as played with Firewire. Jobs came back to Apple and tried to turn FW into a cash generator only after it was tracked into an industry standard.

http://firewireexpert.blogspot.com/2009/05/dollar-deal-that-almost-killed-firewire.html

Right now other than controlling the flow to ensure folks past certifications Intel isn't putting a tax on Thunderbolt. There are costs of implementation ( controllers and supporting board logic components necessary cost money). Vendors already have to buy Intel chipsets with the CPUs. Another "have to buy" component is going to generate grumbling.


at the end they both had them both and it allowed to grow both of them but for now TB is something that may work but will not evolve unless is PC supported

As long as there is a widespread mindset that "box with slots" == PC then PC adoption rate will be slow. If look at where the market is driving Personal Computer designs that most people buy over time it isn't as big of a question. The question is far more is how long until the inertia of the older legacy die off in influence. Thunderbolt doesn't have completely win tomorrow. It just has to do well over the long term.
 
--------------
My only real moan with TB is storage - and it is my own pickiness that cases it.

- I need to add 4 drives to my set up (and they can't be USB3) and I only have one TB port open.
- It has to be SATA III internally to TB
- it has to let me choose what drives go in it
- I prefer SSD or 2.5" only - smallish would be nice
- It is going in an audio control room so silent or super quiet fan is very important
- Have to be able to boot from it

Choices -
Single drive case with 2 TB ports - zero
Oyen Digital (maybe - don't know anyone using these for audio - no idea about fan noise)
Akitio Nuetrino - never heard of them - one review and its DOA - no idea about fan

I'm not sure but I think you may have to give up on anything being bootable - is there such a thing? It's a total edge-case requirement anyway IMHO with the kick-ass SSD that's in the nMP so I wouldn't hold your breath for it... you're likely the only one on the planet that wants to boot off something other than the SSD in the nMP. ;)

As for external enclosures... If you don't mind WD REDS then you could get a couple of WD Thunderbolt Duos. Alternatively if you want to BYOD, then the two you noted are a good fit. There's also the Promise Pegasus2 line which will offer the ultimate performance for SSD RAID0 arrays as it's TB2 and if you don't like the drives it comes with, you could ebay them. Caldigit is also working on a couple of new TB storage products which should be out any day now.
 
I'm not sure but I think you may have to give up on anything being bootable - is there such a thing? It's a total edge-case requirement anyway IMHO with the kick-ass SSD that's in the nMP so I wouldn't hold your breath for it... you're likely the only one on the planet that wants to boot off something other than the SSD in the nMP. ;)

Booting external is part of my natural workflow when vetting new revs of my main software or dot releases of Mac OS. Only occasional use but I want it to be full BW access. With the cMP was never an issue - plenty of SATA bays.

As for external enclosures... If you don't mind WD REDS then you could get a couple of WD Thunderbolt Duos. Alternatively if you want to BYOD, then the two you noted are a good fit. There's also the Promise Pegasus2 line which will offer the ultimate performance for SSD RAID0 arrays as it's TB2 and if you don't like the drives it comes with, you could ebay them. Caldigit is also working on a couple of new TB storage products which should be out any day now.

There is also a promising Sonnet box. The Pegasus one are a choice as well and are fully bootable - but I still hope for a solution aimed at 2.5" and SSD's. With nothing but USB3 and TB now I would rather just have all my drives on TB (there is some legacy issues with USB and audio - better with USB3 - yet adoption is still not 100%). In the old days these towers were all about RAID. Now with no internal storage expansion in nMP or imac JBOD external is becoming more important (IMO of course).
 
PCI-e , DisplayPort , and GPIO are inputs to Thunderbolt controllers. If don't have all three then are issues. Even if drop DP still have more than just one.

Thanks for the hint about the GPIO connector. I did not know this. I assume, GPIO stand for general purpose IO. What exactly is the required as input for the GPIO connectors? I’m just curious. Because PCIe 4x (dedicated, not bandwidth starved) and a DP 1.2 output are already there in an upgrade old Mac Pro.
 
Booting external is part of my natural workflow when vetting new revs of my main software or dot releases of Mac OS. Only occasional use but I want it to be full BW access. With the cMP was never an issue - plenty of SATA bays.



There is also a promising Sonnet box. The Pegasus one are a choice as well and are fully bootable - but I still hope for a solution aimed at 2.5" and SSD's. With nothing but USB3 and TB now I would rather just have all my drives on TB (there is some legacy issues with USB and audio - better with USB3 - yet adoption is still not 100%). In the old days these towers were all about RAID. Now with no internal storage expansion in nMP or imac JBOD external is becoming more important (IMO of course).

If you really need to be running multiple versions of OS X maybe you'd be better off with VMs or partitioning your boot SSD.

Anyway, more enclosures will likely emerge over the coming months as demand picks up.
 
Absolutely! And as fast a boot drive as possible. Only way to really prototype or try a new OS...

Whoever suggested Drobo - that dog won't hunt :)
Or more precisely - Drobo is its own weird raid. No JBOD, no booting OSX and (I tried a Drobo mini) - noisy as heck to boot... just say no - to Drobo :)

Drobos have their use. They are a little noisy, but the no booting into OS X is a temporary Mavericks issue. No JBOD, but they let you do RAID with disks of different sizes and survive up to two drive failures.

They aren't really optimized for speed, but if you're ok with something that runs at the speed of a 2 hard drive RAID, they're pretty good.

If you're ok with sacrificing some security and ease of use for speed, then something like a Promise or LaCie Thunderbolt device could be a better choice.

It's a right tool for the right job sort of thing.
 
Thanks for the hint about the GPIO connector. I did not know this. I assume, GPIO stand for general purpose IO. What exactly is the required as input for the GPIO connectors?

A connection to the low system management and/or firmware controller(s). The issue is that Thunderbolt has boot level constraints that have to do with configuration the defacto PCI-e switch network so can actually boot off it.

Apple typically put hooks in so that folks can tap and extend without APIs into their system management/firmware. The logic boards don't have these connections if I recall correctly. (neither do alot of other PC systems ).

I’m just curious. Because PCIe 4x (dedicated, not bandwidth starved) and a DP 1.2 output are already there in an upgrade old Mac Pro.

Apple isn't likely going to support some Rube Goldberg external loop back cables for DP. If the DP signal is already outside the system it is far more straightforward to route it to the monitor instead of outside, inside, and outside again. Unless trying to pump the video over long distance on a fiber TB cable it is a more expensive solution that is likely to see very limited adoption.
 
But, where are the thunderbolt displays ?... I can only count Apple's own... Those 4K displays don't have TB, I mean the Asus, DELL and Sharp.
 
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