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ilikewhey

macrumors 68040
May 14, 2014
3,592
4,632
nyc upper east
Let me burst your bubble. YES, your government spies on you, not matter which party is in power, no matter which country, even progressive Europeans ones, if not they ask US to do the dirty job on their citizens for them. It is been always the same, in the 30's in the 40's in the 50's, 60's 70's 80's and on... It's part of the way a responsible government stops mass attacks against their own citizens, criminal activities and terrorism. It's part of our life. What we, as citizens must demand is accountability and a way to avoid abuses by our leaders in using those tools.

As for Tik-Tok, the problem is that that platform is used by some guys in the Chinese Government to spread chaos, confusion and anti-democratic ideas between our young generations, it's being abused by foreign assets.
And please don't compare USA with China, we don't have Uyghur's extermination and reeducation camps. Here we are still a democracy, a wounded one if you wish, but DEMOCRACY!
but we got alot of these invading a country under false pretenses and overthrowing regime both democratically elected and dictatorship. is that better or worse than Uyghur reeducation camps? who knows!
 

chmania

macrumors 6502
Dec 2, 2023
256
93
Maybe all US companies doing any business in China should be forced to let all those operations in China owned by the Chinese. What Apple, Dell, MS, HP or any other US "manufacturing" company don't have manufacturing facilities in the US. What can the US do without China?!
 

avz

macrumors 68000
Oct 7, 2018
1,787
1,866
Stalingrad, Russia
Maybe all US companies doing any business in China should be forced to let all those operations in China owned by the Chinese. What Apple, Dell, MS, HP or any other US "manufacturing" company don't have manufacturing facilities in the US. What can the US do without China?!
Unfortunately the balance of power is on US side, China is afraid of secondary sanctions imposed by the US and has to tip-toe around it. There is a reason why you are saying "should be forced" because you know that China don't really have "the stones" to do it.

This is why Janet Yellen spoke pretty much in a "demanding tone" with China because she knows "Yes she can".
 

chmania

macrumors 6502
Dec 2, 2023
256
93
Unfortunately the balance of power is on US side, China is afraid of secondary sanctions imposed by the US and has to tip-toe around it. There is a reason why you are saying "should be forced" because you know that China don't really have "the stones" to do it.
It is good to keep the US thinking that way, that China can't. Arrogance is usually blinding, won't see what's in front of the nose, until one slips. The plug will be pulled one way or another.
 

avz

macrumors 68000
Oct 7, 2018
1,787
1,866
Stalingrad, Russia
It is good to keep the US thinking that way, that China can't. Arrogance is usually blinding, won't see what's in front of the nose, until one slips. The plug will be pulled one way or another.
You don't have to tell me about it as Russia pretty much invented a "power through weakness" approach. The problem with this approach is that US is preparing for a nuclear strike against Russia. The drones that are flying into Russia are "laying the groundwork" for this attack as well as the "Steadfast Defender" exercise.

So it is very important not to overplay that "weakness card" as it puts everybody in great danger.
 
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chmania

macrumors 6502
Dec 2, 2023
256
93
You don't have to tell me about it as Russia pretty much invented a "power through weakness" approach. The problem with this approach is that US is preparing for a nuclear strike against Russia.
The same fear is with the Americans too. Every single major city, base is in the range from the Atlantic and the Pacific. Nuke submarines hiding in the deep sea is hard to find. Best not believe what the US/"Western" media says. ;)
 

avz

macrumors 68000
Oct 7, 2018
1,787
1,866
Stalingrad, Russia
The same fear is with the Americans too. Every single major city, base is in the range from the Atlantic and the Pacific. Nuke submarines hiding in the deep sea is hard to find. Best not believe what the US/"Western" media says. ;)
US/Western media is actually not talking about it but with a bit of experience you will understand that this is exactly what is happening. It is unlikely that US will just peacefully capitulate.

When Biden said "nuclear Armageddon" you should have paid very close attention as on this level the words are chosen very carefully and the process of "slowboiling" the public started then and there.
 

chmania

macrumors 6502
Dec 2, 2023
256
93
US/Western media is actually not talking about it but with a bit of experience you will understand that this is exactly what is happening. It is unlikely that US will just peacefully capitulate.
Of course not, it will just disintegrate, and within. Maybe, the Southern states might break away this time for sure. ;)
 

Dj64Mk7

macrumors 65816
Sep 15, 2013
1,302
592
what you said sets a very dangerous precedent, other countries can literally swap out tiktok in your argument and claim the same logic such as instagram, twitter, fb is not beholden to any law except the u.s, and they are cyber weapons of the U.S designed to destabilize the world's political balance.

i have no problem with us banning tiktok, but don't go crying when other countries like pakistan start banning u.s social media platform for the same reasons.
The difference, as I see it, is that no major platform besides TikTok has the government standing over them, ready to swoop in at a moment’s notice.
 

Supermallet

macrumors 68000
Sep 19, 2014
1,925
2,013
The difference, as I see it, is that no major platform besides TikTok has the government standing over them, ready to swoop in at a moment’s notice.
The deep embedding of US surveillance within big tech is not an example of a government standing over them?
 

chmania

macrumors 6502
Dec 2, 2023
256
93
Civil War is always ugly and I don't wish it for anybody. I personally don't think that it is going to happen in US.
There won't be a war as such, but cessation. US helped provoking civil wars, all kinds of wars in other parts of the world since WW2, the latest one is going on for last 2 years.
 

Razorpit

macrumors 65816
Feb 2, 2021
1,109
2,351
Freedom of speech excludes inciting violence, threats against others, and encouraging illegal activity.

That sounds good in theory. Unfortunately reality showed us this is quite the opposite. Arguments against big pharma, disappeared. Arguments against unproven vaccines, disappeared. Calling your political opponents nahtzi's acceptable.
 
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avz

macrumors 68000
Oct 7, 2018
1,787
1,866
Stalingrad, Russia
There won't be a war as such, but cessation. US helped provoking civil wars, all kinds of wars in other parts of the world since WW2, the latest one is going on for last 2 years.
I understand. US has never believed in the "equality of the outcome" for all. US thinks like Mike Tyson: "I saw an opening and put it all there."

This is why I said earlier that playing a "weakness card" is not going to work. Bashar al-Assad is still around because he wisely decided to take a stand. Those who tried to "negotiate" are all gone now.
 

Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
7,820
6,725
I despise TikTok and all social media. But this sets a bad precedent. It will do nothing if people have access to VPNs.
 

transmaster

Contributor
Feb 1, 2010
1,372
624
Cheyenne, Wyoming
What the CCP does with Tik Tok is track Chinese nationals, and Chinese who live abroad who have families still in China. The CCP uses these family members to threaten them. The CCP knows you are a University Professor who happens to work on sensitive industrial, and military projects. The US has gotten very lax on the issuance of security clearances. Back in the 1970's and especially in the 1960's a Chinese national with family members in Communist China would not have been issued Captain Midnight Decoder ring. You will ask how do I know this. I have actually watched Tik Toc messages like this. You will see an immediate family members talking and in the background you will see a uniformed CCP security offical silently standing. Do try to look for these "messages" as they are quickly taken down.
 

Supermallet

macrumors 68000
Sep 19, 2014
1,925
2,013
What the CCP does with Tik Tok is track Chinese nationals, and Chinese who live abroad who have families still in China. The CCP uses these family members to threaten them. The CCP knows you are a University Professor who happens to work on sensitive industrial, and military projects. The US has gotten very lax on the issuance of security clearances. Back in the 1970's and especially in the 1960's a Chinese national with family members in Communist China would not have been issued Captain Midnight Decoder ring. You will ask how do I know this. I have actually watched Tik Toc messages like this. You will see an immediate family members talking and in the background you will see a uniformed CCP security offical silently standing. Do try to look for these "messages" as they are quickly taken down.
If this is true then why would any Chinese person living abroad, especially one with a security clearance, ever create a TikTok account in the first place?

If you say you have seen these messages firsthand, surely you did a screen recording to prove it, right? I'm well aware that intelligence services in many countries will use all sorts of communication methods, many of them public, so I'm not saying that what you are claiming is impossible. I do think claims like this should be verifiable beyond saying "Trust me bro".
 
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chmania

macrumors 6502
Dec 2, 2023
256
93

"Blinken tells CNN the US has seen evidence of China attempting to influence upcoming US elections"

either schizophrenia, or something even more terrible. The last time the US had 'evidence' that Russia was behind the US election problems. The guys at the helm appear to have problems of running the country.
Maybe the children playing with TikTok is doing that?! ;)
 
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