TikTok Facing Potential US Ban as Congress Passes Bill Requiring Sale

[sideshowuniqueuser]

Good. It brings nothing positive. Just more time-wasting by scrolling through absolute garbage videos.

Unlike scrolling through MacRumors articles and comments

 

[delsoul]

If the CCP doesn’t want to let foreign entities in to their market, but is so riled up about their app being in someone else’s, it says a lot. I’m not for silencing of any speech or applications, but I have zero problems with this one. If the CCP wants to let FB, IG, etc operate in the mainland than no problem. Let tik tok stay in the US. Otherwise, see ya’!

 

[dampfnudel]

This is conspiratorial nonsense. People are more than ever anti-American because they see not only our systems breaking down, but are learning exactly what this country stands for, patriarchal capitalist Christian white supremacy.

I can find content discussing this on any social network. I can also find it in academic books that study America from a critical lens. America is not worth defending.

Okay, America is not worth defending. So what you consider worth defending? A person’s right to say what they want or even just living their lives in the manner they prefer without them being dragged off by thugs, imprisoned for years, possibly never heard from again. Would that be worth defending? I understand the US has plenty of issues and it can be frustrating to say the least. Just don’t throw out the baby with the bath water.

 

[Dj64Mk7]

What did the screen say and what calls were they prompting people to make?

See the attached screenshots.

While the message seems innocent enough ("call your representative and tell them to stop the TikTok 'ban'"), its success in getting people to actually do just that could be considered propaganda, and it's not far-fetched to imagine the CCP using such a tactic to further their dictatorship while destabilizing our democracy.

I also find the idea that people "love" TikTok to be extremely far removed from reality, since I personally, as do many others the world around, know at least a handful of people who are literally addicted to scrolling on the platform, to the extent where there's a sort of dependency to it. That's a completely different issue, though, and not really relevant to the topic at hand (national security).

 

[Supermallet]

If you don’t like the US, you can move to China or Russia, maybe you will feel better there…

Snark aside, I can’t move out of the US because the hyper capitalist system we live in has made it difficult to accrue enough resources to do so. Plus, I already said I think China is also reprehensible so I’m assuming you’re just trying to get a rise out of me at this point. Nowhere in this thread did I say China or Russia were great places to live.

The types of cultures and nations that apps like TikTok promote are full of hatred, bigotry, homophobia and misogyny, rampant patriarchal non-white supremacists (Islamist nations are the rush lately). People are not more "anti-American than ever", these apps are simply pushing people towards these mindsets.

America, more so than nations like China, Russia, Islamist nations, is worth defending. Feel sorry for the folks who buy into the rhetoric they consume. The alternatives are not very bright and peaceful, no matter what the radicals will promise you.

Given that TikTok doesn’t actually have a single, directed message, I think you’re confusing minorities and people who have experienced colonial oppression sharing their experiences and viewpoints with anti-American propaganda. Just because someone is critical of America does not mean that the root cause is some nefarious evil country full of “those people”. Most people don’t get radicalized to the left because of TikTok, they get radicalized because they experience firsthand how horrible and unsustainable the American system is.

America as it exists today is not worth defending. A system that upholds the values of patriarchal capitalist Christian white supremacy is a bad system, and that is the American system. That doesn’t mean I want to turn America into China, Iran, or Russia, but rather to change it to something that actually offers a better world for people. And I didnt get any of that from TikTok.

 

[StralyanPithecus]

Snark aside, I can’t move out of the US because the hyper capitalist system we live in has made it difficult to accrue enough resources to do so. Plus, I already said I think China is also reprehensible so I’m assuming you’re just trying to get a rise out of me at this point. Nowhere in this thread did I say China or Russia were great places to live.

Excuses, I moved sides of the world over more than 8 times. Don’t blame your inability about it over the “hyper white capitalism system”. Grow a pair and move, I did it only with plane tickets money and I am not anyone special, just a common guy.

 

[AlexJaye]

Snark aside, I can’t move out of the US because the hyper capitalist system we live in has made it difficult to accrue enough resources to do so. Plus, I already said I think China is also reprehensible so I’m assuming you’re just trying to get a rise out of me at this point. Nowhere in this thread did I say China or Russia were great places to live.


Given that TikTok doesn’t actually have a single, directed message, I think you’re confusing minorities and people who have experienced colonial oppression sharing their experiences and viewpoints with anti-American propaganda. Just because someone is critical of America does not mean that the root cause is some nefarious evil country full of “those people”. Most people don’t get radicalized to the left because of TikTok, they get radicalized because they experience firsthand how horrible and unsustainable the American system is.

America as it exists today is not worth defending. A system that upholds the values of patriarchal capitalist Christian white supremacy is a bad system, and that is the American system. That doesn’t mean I want to turn America into China, Iran, or Russia, but rather to change it to something that actually offers a better world for people. And I didnt get any of that from TikTok.

The cool-aid here hasn't simply been bought into; it has been sniffed deeply to high-Heaven.

There are also more non-white supremacists in the world than white supremacists, the patriarchy and religion exist basically globally, "colonial oppression" in 2024 America is hilarious as a concept, and to stay in line with these values, "death to Earth" should be your mantra.

Capitalism also helped bring us into the modern age. Feel free to transfer your livelihood to other nations. The problem comes with unregulated capitalism.

 

[delsoul]

Snark aside, I can’t move out of the US because the hyper capitalist system we live in has made it difficult to accrue enough resources to do so. Plus, I already said I think China is also reprehensible so I’m assuming you’re just trying to get a rise out of me at this point. Nowhere in this thread did I say China or Russia were great places to live.


Given that TikTok doesn’t actually have a single, directed message, I think you’re confusing minorities and people who have experienced colonial oppression sharing their experiences and viewpoints with anti-American propaganda. Just because someone is critical of America does not mean that the root cause is some nefarious evil country full of “those people”. Most people don’t get radicalized to the left because of TikTok, they get radicalized because they experience firsthand how horrible and unsustainable the American system is.

America as it exists today is not worth defending. A system that upholds the values of patriarchal capitalist Christian white supremacy is a bad system, and that is the American system. That doesn’t mean I want to turn America into China, Iran, or Russia, but rather to change it to something that actually offers a better world for people. And I didnt get any of that from TikTok.

If it’s hyper capitalist, then you have hyper ways of making money to move yourself somewhere better to your liking. Where there’s a will, there’s a way

 

[zakarhino]

Good. It brings nothing positive. Just more time-wasting by scrolling through absolute garbage videos.

There is nothing good about this move. If it’s not doom scrolling TikTok it’s doom scrolling IG and YouTube. This does nothing to counter garbage media. If TikTok brought nothing positive they wouldn’t bother banning it.

 

[drrich2]

Side note on the alleged 'patriarchy' - these days in the U.S., women live longer, constitute roughly 60% of the student body on college campuses, are under-represented amongst the homeless, incarcerated and workplace fatalities, and over time increasingly move into more 'power' roles. The U.S. is not a patriarchy. Both sexes have their issues, but women in America today on the whole are far from powerless. If current trends continue, we may end up with a mild slant toward 'matriarchy.'

 

[Supermallet]

Okay, America is not worth defending. So what you consider worth defending? A person’s right to say what they want or even just living their lives in the manner they prefer without them being dragged off by thugs, imprisoned for years, possibly never heard from again. Would that be worth defending? I understand the US has plenty of issues and it can be frustrating to say the least. Just don’t throw out the baby with the bath water.

So the only alternative to America is totalitarian? I don’t buy that. Let’s think bigger.

See the attached screenshots.

While the message seems innocent enough ("call your representative and tell them to stop the TikTok 'ban'"), its success in getting people to actually do just that could be considered propaganda, and it's not far-fetched to imagine the CCP using such a tactic to further their dictatorship while destabilizing our democracy.

I also find the idea that people "love" TikTok to be extremely far removed from reality, since I personally, as do many others the world around, know at least a handful of people who are literally addicted to scrolling on the platform, to the extent where there's a sort of dependency to it. That's a completely different issue, though, and not really relevant to the topic at hand (national security).

So the example here is TikTok asking users of TikTok to let their representatives know that they oppose this bill aimed at TikTok. I would say that falls within perfectly reasonable speech, and claiming that this is proof that China can use TikTok to sway elections is a slippery slope fallacy.

Excuses, I moved sides of the world over more than 8 times. Don’t blame your inability about it over the “hyper white capitalism system”. Grow a pair and move, I did it only with plane tickets money and I am not anyone special, just a common guy.

Good for you! Yet with all that exposure to the rest of the world you remain committed to denying the genocide in Palestine. Maybe you should have moved less and listened more.

The cool-aid here hasn't simply been bought into; it has been sniffed deeply to high-Heaven.

There are also more non-white supremacists in the world than white supremacists, the patriarchy and religion exist basically globally, "colonial oppression" in 2024 America is hilarious as a concept, and to stay in line with these values, "death to Earth" should be your mantra.

Capitalism also helped bring us into the modern age. Feel free to transfer your livelihood to other nations. The problem comes with unregulated capitalism.

Yes, some here has indeed sniffed the kool-aid to high heaven, but it sure isn’t me.

If it’s hyper capitalist, then you have hyper ways of making money to move yourself somewhere better to your liking. Where there’s a will, there’s a way

Yeah, funny thing about capitalism, it’s a system where wealth is steadily extracted by the wealthy from everyone else. Hyper capitalism means hyper extraction. The idea that capitalism is a meritocracy is just another way to keep us grinding for someone else’s benefit.

 

[Supermallet]

Side note on the alleged 'patriarchy' - these days in the U.S., women live longer, constitute roughly 60% of the student body on college campuses, are under-represented amongst the homeless, incarcerated and workplace fatalities, and over time increasingly move into more 'power' roles. The U.S. is not a patriarchy. Both sexes have their issues, but women in America today on the whole are far from powerless. If current trends continue, we may end up with a mild slant toward 'matriarchy.'

“Women have some good things” is not the definition of a matriarchy, and “women have some good things” is not evidence against the patriarchy.

 

[drrich2]

“Women have some good things” is not the definition of a matriarchy, and “women have some good things” is not evidence against the patriarchy.

Lots of women have managerial and government positions. Society is not run exclusively or near exclusively by men in America. We are far, far from patriarchy. American society is a collective engagement of both sexes.

 

[Apple Fan 2008]

This is Joseph McCarthy level crap going on. More political fear mongering to increase government control.

 

[Supermallet]

Lots of women have managerial and government positions. Society is not run exclusively or near exclusively by men in America. We are far, far from patriarchy. American society is a collective engagement of both sexes.

It’s a nice fantasy but has no relation to the actual reality of American society. There are plenty of data points to refute your vague assertions, give it a Google.

 

[Dj64Mk7]

So the example here is TikTok asking users of TikTok to let their representatives know that they oppose this bill aimed at TikTok. I would say that falls within perfectly reasonable speech, and claiming that this is proof that China can use TikTok to sway elections is a slippery slope fallacy.

There’s no such thing as a slippery slope fallacy when it comes to protecting our Nation from espionage and propaganda campaigns. As others have pointed out, no broadcast news network in America is allowed to be based outside of America. While the medium of consumption may have changed, there is still a need to protect our democracy from foreign interference.

 

[Supermallet]

There’s no such thing as a slippery slope fallacy when it comes to protecting our Nation from espionage and propaganda campaigns. As others have pointed out, no broadcast news network in America is allowed to be based outside of America. While the medium of consumption may have changed, there is still a need to protect our democracy from foreign interference.

You can justify almost anything if you cloak it as a national security issue. Unless there is evidence of a real and pressing threat to the safety of US citizens, I don’t buy it, and none of the arguments here or from Congress have convinced me that these measures are necessary. If this really were an issue of national security, the bill would be creating restrictions on American tech companies as to what they can and cannot do with our data. The fact that there isn’t tells me exactly what I need to know about this political stunt.

 

[Dj64Mk7]

You can justify almost anything if you cloak it as a national security issue. Unless there is evidence of a real and pressing threat to the safety of US citizens, I don’t buy it, and none of the arguments here or from Congress have convinced me that these measures are necessary. If this really were an issue of national security, the bill would be creating restrictions on American tech companies as to what they can and cannot do with our data. The fact that there isn’t tells me exactly what I need to know about this political stunt.

Using the same logic that you came to your conclusion with, the government should not be making contingency plans in case another attempted coup happens, because there’s no evidence that another one will happen or has happened.

 

[Supermallet]

Using the same logic that you came to your conclusion with, the government should not be making contingency plans in case another attempted coup happens, because there’s no evidence that another one will happen or has happened.

And yet congresspeople who supported the initial coup had no consequences, but oh it’s so important that we ban TikTok right now!

Again, this is political theater. Don’t let the practiced urgency of our political class fool you.

 

[Shirasaki]

It is always scary when the left and the right unite against first amendment rights. If there is any credibility to their concerns, it could be solved by requiring algorithms to be transparent. This authoritarian approach will hopefully be shot down by the courts.

You do know gaining bipartisan support today means that republican majority court would not rule in favour of ByteDance (or TikTok) later on right? On China issue US government is pretty united and I don’t expect this to change anytime soon.

 

[d686546s]

Agree with you, but if you read the proposed "ban" what is asking is for Tik-Tok owners (Chinese company) to get rid of it, and if they don't do it, then it will start a ban process which surely will be take long time, so plenty of outcomes still on the table before a full ban.

Sure, but not really the point I was trying to make.

The Act, as it passed and was signed into law, applies to

A) any of—
(i) ByteDance, Ltd.;
(ii) TikTok;
(iii) a subsidiary of or a successor to an entity identified in clause (i) or (ii) that is controlled by a foreign adversary; or
(iv) an entity owned or controlled, directly or indirectly, by an entity identified in clause (i), (ii), or (iii); or

As well as the second category of

(B) a covered company that—

(i) is controlled by a foreign adversary; and
(ii) that is determined by the President to present a significant threat to the national security of the United States following the issuance of—
(I) a public notice proposing such determination; and
(II) a public report to Congress, submitted not less than 30 days before such determination, describing the specific national security concern involved and containing a classified annex and a description of what assets would need to be divested to execute a qualified divestiture.

Now my point was that I find it slightly icky when the legislature passes laws that apply to a single entity (unless it is a public body of any kind) without any further process.

The act already has a general mechanism and we are not privy to whatever lawmakers may have been told behind closed doors.

Let the executive make a public notice and submit a report to Congress describing the specifics, as is already envisaged within the law. I just think it's a bad precedent.

 

[chmania]

India didn't allow foreign cars in, for a long time, today Tata owns iconic British car brands such as Jaguar and Land Rover and practically all the steel factories in the UK and most in the EU. India also has the largest Technical university in the world. Large US firms such as MS, Google, YouTube, World Bank Group, Palo Alto Networks, Albertsons, NetApp, Arista Networks, Adobe, IBM, Novartis, Starbucks, Micron Technology, Honeywell, Flex, Wayfair, Chanel, Cadence Design Systems, Cognizant, Zscaler, Vertex Pharmaceuticals etc are run by Indian born, Indian taught people.

China owns Lotus, Polestar and Volvo. Chinese companies owns iconic US companies, such as GE, AMC Theatres, Smithfield Foods, Legendary Pictures, Waldorf-Astoria, Strategic Hotels, Riot Games, Sheraton Universal Hotel, Marriot Downtown Hotel, Ingram Micro, Motorola Mobility, Terex Corp, Teledyne Mattituck, and has a substantial stake in Blackstone, Chesapeake Energy, Ford, Morgan Stanley, and interestingly in VISA. There maybe more.

US politicians usually talk nonsense to keep their seats, and the paycheck, especially the paycheck and the bonuses, making noise about pushing the Chinese company TikTok to relinquish ownership in the US. What if China pulls the plug?

Between China and India, they share nearly half of the world population...and the economic might!
Also, check who makes most of the medicine you take? How much of that is from China and India?

 

[aknabi]

There was a time when Western Democracies understood that at their core they were fundamentally similar in contrast to authoritarian governments that are generally opposed to things like free speech and democracy. Is it really that simple for you to ignore those differences such that you think the US and China should be seen as equal in the eyes of the EU?

Actually I'd put the US a notch below China in terms of folks that are a threat to regional and global security... the US just has a far better PR and spin machine... and of course the US suddenly is "concerned" for it's kids and population when it impacts their foreign policy, military industrial profits and hegemony... education, healthcare, environment, not getting shot... well suddenly no can do... it's all about "free market freedom (or is it freedumb?).

 

[avz]

Actually I'd put the US a notch below China in terms of folks that are a threat to regional and global security... the US just has a far better PR and spin machine... and of course the US suddenly is "concerned" for it's kids and population when it impacts their foreign policy, military industrial profits and hegemony... education, healthcare, environment, not getting shot... well suddenly no can do... it's all about "free market freedom (or is it freedumb?).

The only commitment US has is a commitment "to see". EU "mohicans" will cover everything else. I would say that this is quite an elegant approach.

 

[ilikewhey]

I posted this on a Verge comments section about TikTok creating an Instagram rival:



I still stand by it.

To the commenters before me, where does the Israel-Hamas conflict even come into this? The bill that was passed only has funding for Ukraine, which is a completely different country, in a completely different region. The conspiracies about the US government wanting to silence pro-Palestinian voices is exactly that: a conspiracy. It’s not a First Amendment issue. What is a First Amendment issue, however, is a foreign adversary having direct access to millions of extremely gullible Americans, who will believe whatever they’re told to believe, and act however they’re told to act. As I said in the quote above, TikTok is not beholden to any law except the PRC, and if we give them the opportunity, they will abuse their power and influence, and they will turn whatever tools they have at their disposal, even if just a highly-addictive social media app, into a propaganda machine.

I was watching a video on TikTok the other week, and I came to this conclusion: TikTok is a cyber weapon of the Chinese Communist Party, designed to destabilize the world’s superpowers while falsely elevating the People’s Republic of China, disguised as an extremely addictive social media app.

what you said sets a very dangerous precedent, other countries can literally swap out tiktok in your argument and claim the same logic such as instagram, twitter, fb is not beholden to any law except the u.s, and they are cyber weapons of the U.S designed to destabilize the world's political balance.

i have no problem with us banning tiktok, but don't go crying when other countries like pakistan start banning u.s social media platform for the same reasons.