Tragedy of the clueless

[throAU]

Just watched wwdc 2024. They really have no clues what to do with ipados. Nothing is improved fundamentally just reiterations of past steps. There is no desktop, no window management. Ipados is more limited than 30 year old Mac os 7.5 in all possible ways. System 7.5 achieved far more and far more efficiently with the meager Motorola chip and few mb of ram than all m4 ipad pros with gbs of ram and memory. it is mind numbing how blind, shortsighted and limited are Tim and Federini in rethinking ipad os. Aside from math notes there was really nothing new in ipad’s new version. Waste of time and money. And speaking of math notes, there is no way to normally input math equations on pages aside from using some really hideous ways. Ms Word running in 1993 on Mac OS system 7 was able to do more in math equation input than whole of ipados and all of its apps in 2024. And thats a testimony to how clueless are Apple directors about ipad os as they are just to release another iteration of their so limited toy os. I wonder if they ever do meetings on improving ipad os and making it truly work oriented os. judging on wwdc video, no, they dont.

Hard disagree actually.

The AI integration, if it performs as advertised is a game changer.

Things like intelligent mail categorisation, appointment scheduling, and intelligent notification filtering will have an actual real world impact on people's productivity.

Sure those things are coming to the Mac as well, but as time moves on more and more of what people actually want to do will be achievable on an iPad. Think of the iPad as ending up like a magical notepad that can be used for communication, sketching (and turning sketches into real designs of things via AI), media re-touching, etc.

Don't think of it as a computer without a keyboard, and don't expect it to be used like a traditional computer.

It's clear to me from playing with iPadOS 18 Beta so far, that this not what Apple are trying to do with the iPad. If you want a traditional computing experience that's what the Mac is for.

 

[throAU]

This Ferrari stays within city limits.

If you haven't played with some of the AI stuff in iPadOS 18 yet, it's clear from my experience with it that it needs all the performance it can get. on M1 at least in beta it is quite laggy - the NPU in the M4 is clearly what this sort of thing is aimed at.

 

[NEPOBABY]

All of the items people are referring to as the pain points in iPadOS are OS shortcomings and have nothing to do with the physical device.

You don’t understand. If they had all the features they want the device would be warmer and the battery life would be reduced. It would no longer be a great tablet. All software running on all types of compute devices are physically constrained.

 

[H_D]

The battery/warmth argument is fun. The MBP gets hot and battery life is 60 minutes depending on the tasks let it chew on. TopazVideo or x265 on CPU fries the SoC. So — maybe we should better not run MacOS on a MacBook when it gets hot and the battery is stressed?

Sorry folks, but every user knows that battery life depends on what you do. As Mac OS itself is quite capable of running hours on MBA,it would be fine on iPad as well, plus, if you use Magic Keyboard, it can be externally powered.

And that still has nothing to do with Finder, Fonts, multitasking, using plugins, being able to do basic things with files and work more efficiently with touch. It would and should never replace the Studio or MBP as a workhorse. But man, it would be nice if a 3000€ device would be more than the Kindle Fire Deluxe. Two TB5-ports, a really capable OS that can run Mac Apps, a real finder and filesystem, improved networking capabilities, dev mode in Safari and about a hundred small quality of life things we are used from MacOS and would welcome on the iPad, where so far even simple tasks are complicated and stilted. The hardware is no excuse anymore and hasn’t been since the M1. We are not talking about the iPad Mini here, but of machine with hardware similar to the MacBook Air. As with other options this could be reserved for new top of line devices. And it would easily double the sales of iPads and not cut into Mac sales. The iPad will never replace a Mac. But it would be good to be able to use it as one on the go if you need to.

 

[iToph]

so as i can see, still 60hz on external Monitor with IPP 13 via thunderbolt. What a Bummer

 

[throAU]

so as i can see, still 60hz on external Monitor with IPP 13 via thunderbolt. What a Bummer

Bummer? Maybe, but the business world runs on 60hz just fine and has for 1-2 decades with 60hz LCD panels at this point.

Faster would be nice but it isn’t a deal breaker.

 

[stocklen]

Just watched wwdc 2024. They really have no clues what to do with ipados. Nothing is improved fundamentally just reiterations of past steps. There is no desktop, no window management. Ipados is more limited than 30 year old Mac os 7.5 in all possible ways. System 7.5 achieved far more and far more efficiently with the meager Motorola chip and few mb of ram than all m4 ipad pros with gbs of ram and memory. it is mind numbing how blind, shortsighted and limited are Tim and Federini in rethinking ipad os. Aside from math notes there was really nothing new in ipad’s new version. Waste of time and money. And speaking of math notes, there is no way to normally input math equations on pages aside from using some really hideous ways. Ms Word running in 1993 on Mac OS system 7 was able to do more in math equation input than whole of ipados and all of its apps in 2024. And thats a testimony to how clueless are Apple directors about ipad os as they are just to release another iteration of their so limited toy os. I wonder if they ever do meetings on improving ipad os and making it truly work oriented os. judging on wwdc video, no, they dont.

Sorry to say but the real "tragedy of the clueless" is people who bang on, and on, and on about iPadOS not being MacOS.

What a waste of moaning energy.

It isnt MacOS - you have machines you can buy that run MacOS if you need MacOS..... there is no point whatsoever making an iPad run MacOS.


Everyone forgets something fundamental. An OS is there to make getting to your APPS as quick and easy as possible. Its not something to sit there playing with or lusting over - its just in the background.
The iPadOS performs this admirably. The platform does not lend itself to thousands of overlapping windows and complex multitasking - again... theres MacOS for that.
What iPadOS does admirably is a simple, uncluttered and efficient way of running single apps full screen or maybe a couple side by side.

Please, never make iPadOS like MacOS.

 

[SnowCrocodile]

Don't think of it as a computer without a keyboard, and don't expect it to be used like a traditional computer.

It's clear to me from playing with iPadOS 18 Beta so far, that this not what Apple are trying to do with the iPad. If you want a traditional computing experience that's what the Mac is for.

Apple challenges the definition of a PC with new ‘What’s a computer’ iPad Pro ad [Video] - 9to5Mac

Apple today has shared a new iPad Pro ad touting how it can act as a PC replacement. This is the...

9to5mac.com

“Apple today has shared a new iPad Pro ad touting how it can act as a PC replacement. This is the same angle Apple has taken in several previous advertisements, but this is the first one to focus on the iPad Pro enhancements included with iOS 11.”

 

[throAU]

Apple challenges the definition of a PC with new ‘What’s a computer’ iPad Pro ad [Video] - 9to5Mac

Apple today has shared a new iPad Pro ad touting how it can act as a PC replacement. This is the...

9to5mac.com

“Apple today has shared a new iPad Pro ad touting how it can act as a PC replacement. This is the same angle Apple has taken in several previous advertisements, but this is the first one to focus on the iPad Pro enhancements included with iOS 11.”

pc replacement is not working the same as a pc

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

Apple just stopped innovating in the software/ user experience space.
Split-screen multitasking ? A cheap Android phone has it, but a $1000 iPhone doesn’t.
Always-on display ? Ditto. Folding screen ? Nah. A phone with a built in pen ? Nope.

So if Apple *just* stopped innovating, as you literally said in your comment ; as in today in 2024, they have decided to stop innovating…
Then why do all of your complaints of missing features seem to date from 2012?
Androids have had split screen support since at the latest 2013.
The first galaxy note with the first SPen is from 2011.

Especially when you’re talking about how Apple could be losing market share due to these missing features… You really seem to pick features that most people don’t really seem to care about.

Because again, if people cared about split screen and pen support, they would have left iOS 10+ years ago, these are not new features.

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

Apple challenges the definition of a PC with new ‘What’s a computer’ iPad Pro ad [Video] - 9to5Mac

Apple today has shared a new iPad Pro ad touting how it can act as a PC replacement. This is the...

9to5mac.com

“Apple today has shared a new iPad Pro ad touting how it can act as a PC replacement. This is the same angle Apple has taken in several previous advertisements, but this is the first one to focus on the iPad Pro enhancements included with iOS 11.”

And even to this day, they are correct, I know plenty of people (almost all of whom aren’t exactly knowledgeable about technology and operating systems) replace traditional Windows PCs with iPads… And use them more, find them easier to get things done, and absolutely love them compared to their old windows computers.

The problem is people in this comment section think that ad is targeted at them.
Them, the people who spend parts of their day literally posting on a forum called “MAC” Rumors.

For your average PC user, it’s very likely the iPad can easily do the same things that they use their PC for.

 

[richpjr]

You don’t understand. If they had all the features they want the device would be warmer and the battery life would be reduced. It would no longer be a great tablet. All software running on all types of compute devices are physically constrained.

Most of the pain points (such as fixing the files app, updating stage manager, etc.) would have zero impact on batter life.

 

[SnowCrocodile]

And even to this day, they are correct, I know plenty of people (almost all of whom aren’t exactly knowledgeable about technology and operating systems) replace traditional Windows PCs with iPads… And use them more, find them easier to get things done, and absolutely love them compared to their old windows computers.

The problem is people in this comment section think that ad is targeted at them.
Them, the people who spend parts of their day literally posting on a forum called “MAC” Rumors.

For your average PC user, it’s very likely the iPad can easily do the same things that they use their PC for.

Right. Like syncronizing data between two folders on different drives, or working with four different source apps side by side to make a presentation, or playing games.

Or did you mean “people who only need email, social apps and browser ?” Because most of them don’t use PCs anymore.

And remember, this ad was not about “an” iPad. It was specifically about iPad Pro. Apple advertised that the Pro model was a PC replacement, despite all the people here saying “well they never claimed that”.

 

[Ludatyk]

Most of the pain points (such as fixing the files app, updating stage manager, etc.) would have zero impact on batter life.

You imply files app is broken… so, what exactly do you think needs fixing with the files app?

 

[GMShadow]

Apple challenges the definition of a PC with new ‘What’s a computer’ iPad Pro ad [Video] - 9to5Mac

Apple today has shared a new iPad Pro ad touting how it can act as a PC replacement. This is the...

9to5mac.com

“Apple today has shared a new iPad Pro ad touting how it can act as a PC replacement. This is the same angle Apple has taken in several previous advertisements, but this is the first one to focus on the iPad Pro enhancements included with iOS 11.”

"This ad says a car can replace my horse and buggy, but a car can't pull a plow so it's pointless!"

 

[ProbablyDylan]

Right. Like syncronizing data between two folders on different drives, or working with four different source apps side by side to make a presentation, or playing games.

Can you not do that stuff on an iPad? Pretty sure I've copied data between drives, worked on documents referencing multiple sources, and played games on mine.

 

[Webcat86]

Apple challenges the definition of a PC with new ‘What’s a computer’ iPad Pro ad [Video] - 9to5Mac

Apple today has shared a new iPad Pro ad touting how it can act as a PC replacement. This is the...

9to5mac.com

“Apple today has shared a new iPad Pro ad touting how it can act as a PC replacement. This is the same angle Apple has taken in several previous advertisements, but this is the first one to focus on the iPad Pro enhancements included with iOS 11.”

A "PC replacement" in no way means that Apple is suggesting iPad is offering a traditional computing experience (which is the particular point you were fighting with this ad). On the contrary — it is literally and explicitly demonstrating that this is a different experience. The commercial goes heavy on portability and adaptability.

Notice that it doesn't pretend someone is doing heavy coding or building websites or doing, frankly, rather more niche activities for which a desktop OS is genuinely required.

And before I get piled on, "niche" doesn't mean that hardly anyone does it or it doesn't matter. It means that it's not an activity the majority of customers use these devices for.

This is equally true of MacBooks and PCs — they have the functionality for almost anything we want to throw at them, but the majority aren't using those advanced features. I can count on one hand how many times I've used Terminal, and my family could count on zero fingers how many times they've used Terminal.

Outside of work (which for most people involves company-issued computers), most personal computers are used for consumption. So the iPad is the ideal device for many, many people (hence is outselling Macs by a wide margin, but let's all ignore that because it's inconvenient to the "iPad needs MacOS!" crowd) and the question "What's a computer?" is 1) apt and 2) not claiming that it offers a traditional desktop experience. It suggests that most people don't need a traditional desktop experience, and that the traditional desktop experience is restrictive in its own ways (i.e. taking photos, messaging, lightweight portability etc).

 

[Webcat86]

Can you not do that stuff on an iPad? Pretty sure I've copied data between drives, worked on documents referencing multiple sources, and played games on mine.

There are people complaining that you can't resize windows on an iPad, when Stage Manager provides precisely that functionality.

I'm not claiming the iPad is perfect but there's a very noticeable trend with some members here that they haven't used an iPad in a long time, complain that it lacks features, get told it has those features, so then say "well, well, it doesn't do this other, completely unrelated thing, so THERE!"

At a certain point it just seems like they actively want to dislike it, for whatever reason.

 

[SnowCrocodile]

So if Apple *just* stopped innovating, as you literally said in your comment ; as in today in 2024, they have decided to stop innovating…
Then why do all of your complaints of missing features seem to date from 2012?
Androids have had split screen support since at the latest 2013.
The first galaxy note with the first SPen is from 2011.

Especially when you’re talking about how Apple could be losing market share due to these missing features… You really seem to pick features that most people don’t really seem to care about.

Because again, if people cared about split screen and pen support, they would have left iOS 10+ years ago, these are not new features.

10+ years ago is when I left Android for iOS, so I am probably qualified to answer that.

Yes, feature wise Android was ahead even then. But the hardware was absolute trash, and the OS was still very raw. Basically, any Android device I had back then would work fine for the first 4-6 months, then it would start slowing down and overheating and developing random lags and freezes. A full reset and re-install would fix that for another 4-6 months.

Besides, the hardware was unreliable. Failed screens, failing memory modules, failing charge ports. The phones were better, especially Samsung flagships, but the tablets were trash.

So when my wife (then still a fiancée) wanted a tablet, I chose an iPad for her. It was working fine for two years with no slowdowns or breakdowns.

Then I needed a tablet for myself, to take notes while traveling. I decided to try an iPad Mini. I found the iOS fairly limited, but very stable. Still kept my Android phone.

Then later I figured I may as well get an iPhone and enjoy the integration between my devices. I got a 7+, which at that time was an excellent phone in every way, perfectly capable of holding its own against the competition. It definitely took better photos in backlit conditions than my 12.

Well, that was then. Now, the Android OS no longer suffers from memory and cache management issues. Samsung tablets are well made. There goes two main reasons for me switching to Apple back then. Windows laptops can link with Androids for phone calls and messages, so that functionality is now available on the other side as well. There are of course some things that are not available - FaceTime, Spotlight (although Samsung has something similar), AFAIK Android phones aren’t as easy to use abroad as iPhones because of the way they are locked to a specific market’s cellular bands. OTOH, there’s a lot of functionality that is not available on iOS. It’s no longer an easy choice.

 

[GMShadow]

There are people complaining that you can't resize windows on an iPad, when Stage Manager provides precisely that functionality.

I'm not claiming the iPad is perfect but there's a very noticeable trend with some members here that they haven't used an iPad in a long time, complain that it lacks features, get told it has those features, so then say "well, well, it doesn't do this other, completely unrelated thing, so THERE!"

At a certain point it just seems like they actively want to dislike it, for whatever reason.

They'll complain that iOS doesn't support third party keyboards in a few minutes.


There's a fair number of people who don't actually own or use any of the stuff they complain about. They need better hobbies than making up stuff on forums.

 

[Webcat86]

10+ years ago is when I left Android for iOS, so I am probably qualified to answer that.

Yes, feature wise Android was ahead even then. But the hardware was absolute trash, and the OS was still very raw. Basically, any Android device I had back then would work fine for the first 4-6 months, then it would start slowing down and overheating and developing random lags and freezes. A full reset and re-install would fix that for another 4-6 months.

Besides, the hardware was unreliable. Failed screens, failing memory modules, failing charge ports. The phones were better, especially Samsung flagships, but the tablets were trash.

So when my wife (then still a fiancée) wanted a tablet, I chose an iPad for her. It was working fine for two years with no slowdowns or breakdowns.

Then I needed a tablet for myself, to take notes while traveling. I decided to try an iPad Mini. I found the iOS fairly limited, but very stable. Still kept my Android phone.

Then later I figured I may as well get an iPhone and enjoy the integration between my devices. I got a 7+, which at that time was an excellent phone in every way, perfectly capable of holding its own against the competition. It definitely took better photos in backlit conditions than my 12.

Well, that was then. Now, the Android OS no longer suffers from memory and cache management issues. Samsung tablets are well made. There goes two main reasons for me switching to Apple back then. Windows laptops can link with Androids for phone calls and messages, so that functionality is now available on the other side as well. There are of course some things that are not available - FaceTime, Spotlight (although Samsung has something similar), AFAIK Android phones aren’t as easy to use abroad as iPhones because of the way they are locked to a specific market’s cellular bands. OTOH, there’s a lot of functionality that is not available on iOS. It’s no longer an easy choice.

For a long, long time I was rabidly anti-iPhone. It seemed limited to the point that I called it a Fisher Price phone. I tried multiple Samsung phones and had the experience you described — worked fine for a while but within a year it was lagging and the battery drained too fast and it got too warm and it was generally unpleasant. There were a lot of features but many of them I filed as "bloatware", and some of them were Samsung's duplication of Android apps (like there were Photos and also Samsung Photos).

I switched when the iPhone 6 came around as I liked what the new OS updates offered, and it was a revelation. Suddenly, I wasn't wasting hours messing about with Home Screen launchers — the lack of that option meant I didn't even want to do it. I was already a Mac user so that was nice too. Fast forward to today and the integration in the ecosystem is amazing. Universal Control, Sidecar, Handoff, iMessage sync, copy/paste from one device to another instantly. The experience is such that I barely need to think about it, which ultimately is what I want.

So for me, and I suspect I'm not alone, functionality was rarely the issue. Overall experience mattered the most, and I found a lot of "functionality" on Android was ill-thought out and there for the sake of being able to say it did all these things.

I don't doubt the gap has closed, but Apple has really transcended it being about a singular phone or tablet or computer now, by making the ecosystem truly exceptional.

Oh, and getting OS updates when they're released is a welcome thing too. I know stock Android was always better and I assume it's overall better today than a decade ago but goddam, the Android lottery of whether you'd get an update and whether it'd be before the next one was announced was an utterly atrocious user experience.

 

[SnowCrocodile]

There are people complaining that you can't resize windows on an iPad, when Stage Manager provides precisely that functionality.

I'm not claiming the iPad is perfect but there's a very noticeable trend with some members here that they haven't used an iPad in a long time, complain that it lacks features, get told it has those features, so then say "well, well, it doesn't do this other, completely unrelated thing, so THERE!"

Please tell me how do I compare and synchronize (not merely copy and override) hundreds of files in deeply nested folders between two separate locations on the iPad ? Say, an external SSD and OneDrive. That’s something I actually do pretty often.

At a certain point it just seems like they actively want to dislike it, for whatever reason.

I like iPads. I dislike the idea of a “pro” iPad that can’t really do anything special that a base iPad can’t do, yet was promoted - and priced - as a PC replacement. I fell for that marketing and I can’t think of a single thing I can do on that device that I can’t do on cheaper one.

 

[Webcat86]

Please tell me how do I compare and synchronize (not merely copy and override) hundreds of files in deeply nested folders between two separate locations on the iPad ? Say, an external SSD and OneDrive. That’s something I actually do pretty often.

I don't need to do that. I haven't claimed the iPad can do every single thing a Mac can do and your very specific requirement might be one of them.

But yours isn't the example I used. The example I used was of resizing windows. And the conversations I've had with other people on this very forum this very month have been about various other things that "the iPad can't do so it's too limited" but, in actual fact, the iPad can do them.

One user today kindly told everyone that he hasn't used an iPad in years — but did that stop them complaining about the limitations of today? Of course not. Nor did it matter that those complaints were not entirely accurate anymore.

 

[GMShadow]

Please tell me how do I compare and synchronize (not merely copy and override) hundreds of files in deeply nested folders between two separate locations on the iPad ? Say, an external SSD and OneDrive. That’s something I actually do pretty often.

Great, you're in the extreme minority of users. Apple would recommend you buy a Mac instead of an iPad. The iPad does not need to cover your niche use case to be a valid product.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

Please tell me how do I compare and synchronize (not merely copy and override) hundreds of files in deeply nested folders between two separate locations on the iPad ? Say, an external SSD and OneDrive. That’s something I actually do pretty often.

Are your files organized that way for app development or something? I can't think of an end user reason to have this kind of file organization.