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Transforming Leopard into Snow Leopard

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z970mp said:
Like I told Mr. High&Mighty, you got lucky. Just because failure doesn't happen to strike you doesn't mean it doesn't exist for many, if not, most others. This also goes for the first Intel version of the Mac Pro that you happen to own, even though I didn't elaborate on it.
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Let me just say that even though a 2011 was my main computer, I have handled a LOT of unibody MBPs and have never had one buzz me. That includes both Retina and Pre-Retina

Funny enough, the only Apple that has "buzzed" me was a G5, and that was when I was also touching an improperly grounded an aluminum cinema display.
 
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z970mp said:
Nobody said anything about using it. It's called making a point.

Yeah sure, the same intelligent users that are gullible enough to use a Wintel machine with an Apple logo slapped on.

You don't seem to know much about computer quality.
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You're point being? You're making no sense and are grasping at straws. As for QEMU, do realize that on x86 you can actually emulate PowerPC to an usable level, whereas x86 emulation on PPC is slow as a dog. Now that's making a point!
Also, I'm just going to ignore your fanboy-ish insinuations of my preferences, of which you know exactly zero. Ever read my signature at all? Might say something you didn't know about that.
 
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bunnspecial said:
Let me just say that even though a 2011 was my main computer, I have handled a LOT of unibody MBPs and have never had one buzz me. That includes both Retina and Pre-Retina

Funny enough, the only Apple that has "buzzed" me was a G5, and that was when I was also touching an improperly grounded an aluminum cinema display.
Click to expand...

Well maybe they just like you, don't they?

I've handled a lot of Intel Apple machines and lot of them has some kind of prominent issue.

That's not a mainstream issue on the G5. You had a faulty unit, probably a loose wire somewhere.

And how do you have an improperly grounded Cinema Display?
 
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Daniël Oosterhuis said:
You're point being? You're making no sense and are grasping at straws. As for QEMU, do realize that on x86 you can actually emulate PowerPC to an usable level, whereas x86 emulation on PPC is slow as a dog. Now that's making a point!
Also, I'm just going to ignore your fanboy-ish insinuations of my preferences, of which you know exactly zero. Ever read my signature at all? Might say something you didn't know about that.
Click to expand...

And?

Good for you. You own a lot of PowerPCs.

Your point being?
 
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z970mp said:
And?

Good for you. You own a lot of PowerPCs.

Your point being?
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That I might know a little more about "computer quality" than someone that doesn't even know how an ungrounded main power cable or power socket can introduce buzz to any metal body computer.
 
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LightBulbFun said:
im just going to post this articial (its where the buzz/tingle comes from)

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/216959/what-does-the-y-capacitor-in-a-smps-do

its also another reason to stay away from cheap ebay PSUs as more often then not they skimp on the capacitor and can result in (when that capacitor fails short) the device becoming live at FULL MAINS VOLTAGE which will KILL you more often then not
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My spare after market charger makes my Powerbook tingle...you've scared me now - it's going in the bottom drawer ;)
 
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I also recommend you watch this video

(PS anyone interested in electronics and stuff should subscribe to bigclive awesome channel)
 
*cracks knuckles*

I have long debated the fact that the last G5’s were more powerful than the Core Duo based Macs that followed them. Core Duo CPUs in Apple products were pretty disasterous, compared to their later C2D counterparts, which allows for support from Tiger all the way to High Sierra thanks to being 64-bit, unlike the Core Duo. The move to Intel was a wise one, as IBM and Motorola couldn’t make good on their promises to lower heat and power usage and to break the 3GHz threshold on the G5. Now, that being said, I do feel the G5’s should have gotten Snow Leopard, as they run Leopard like a champ. The Core 2 Duo in my opinion was one of Intel’s most successful CPUs to date, being used from 2006 to early 2011. This was amongst one of the largest growths in computer ownership in the world, meaning there are literally millions of computers with C2D CPUs. Now obviously the later Core i-series of CPUs have been around longer and are pretty successful, but there is increasing competition from AMD, meaning not every single computer is powered by Intel (not that during the C2D era AMD didn’t exist, they just weren’t overly prevalent other than their Athlon64 line, which caused the creation of Intel Itanium series of 64-bit CPUs and later the Core 2 Duo and future 64-bit CPUs by Intel).

Anyway, going back to Macs, Z970MP said that early Intel Macs were all disasters. Well, being that they could actually make a laptop with a modern CPU instead of the antiquated G4 without being 6in thick and having average temps of 250+*F, I’d say the minor inconvenience of running at 175*F is not much to complain about. Also, if taken care of properly, these computers can last for long periods of time with no issues. Yes there were many GPU failures in Pre-uni MBPs, but most of which were repaired by Apple under replacement programs which replace the defective GPUs with newer corrected revisions, like the 8600M GT in the 2007 and 2008 MBPs. I have a 2007 MBP 3,1 which still works perfectly and is in near mint condition. At some point, the GPU will die, but I’m taking precautions to try and hold it off as long as possible, like running the fans full blast once the GPU goes above 160*F. As DOSDude1 outlined on YouTube, these GPUs can be repaired by replacing the defective GPUs with corrected ones, something Apple used to do. Now a days, you have to find someone who is capable of replacing the GPU. The 2010 MBPs just need a capacitor replaced since Apple used too weak of one and they end up blowing out. The 2011s use weak solder balls and end up desoldering. For those, it’s better to find someone who can repair that rather than Apple as they just give you another defective board. But the 2012 models have zero documented flaws. The later Retina’s don’t have many flaws with their CPUs and GPUs, but the covering on the screens peel off.

Despite these failing points on the MBPs, the MBs, iMacs, and Mac Pros have been solid since day one. And don’t forget that the PowerBooks, PowerMacs, and iMacs of the PPC era had their fair share of issues as well. I could keep rambling on, but I think I’ve proved the point that despite some minor reparable issues that have shown up some years down the road, the Intel Mac lineup has been pretty solid.

PPC is a hobby. No one is forcing anyone to use a PowerPC Mac. Use what you want. If someone wants to live on PPC, so be it. I won’t judge. However, you cannot deny the fact that it’s becoming more and more difficult to use PowerPC only as technology and the internet advances further and further, leaving PPC in the dust.
 
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z970mp said:
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3701075?start=0&tstart=0

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2570597?tstart=0

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2570597?tstart=0

https://gigaom.com/2008/10/10/apple-officially-admits-to-faulty-nvidia-gpus/

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2268642?tstart=0

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/display-problems-with-white-imac-core-2-duo.653082/

https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/54887/faulty-2006-imac-what-is-it-useful-for

I can also personally relate to a 2006 20" iMac going funny with the GPU, a second 2006 iMac 24" going funny with the GPU, a 2007 MacBook Pro also overheating and going funny, and just for the hell of it, a 2011 iMac with a flickering display, cursor lag, with fan issues, a 2010 Mac Mini with some kind of set of issues I forgot about, and a 2012 Mac Pro with other sets of issues. I don't know, it doesn't live in the same building as I do. Oh yeah, and my 2012 MacBook Pro with graphical and electrical issues.

[doublepost=1501265408][/doublepost]@bunnspecial

I never said anything about Mac Pros specifically, but...

And why is it that I always see smiley faces in your signature, but I never see smiley faces in your comments? :(
[doublepost=1501267170][/doublepost]

Congratulations, you got lucky.

Every revision too, huh? Congratulations, you have a lot of money.

Yeah, but the general consumer isn't supposed to bake anything. It's supposed to work. You only get to bake stuff when there is a problem where there shouldn't be. Turns out, there are problems on every one of them. That's a lot of temporary solution fix sessions.

That's such a long time.

The issue is not that they are hot, rather the issue is that the heat is not being internally handled as it's supposed to be. The DLSD PowerBook G4 handles heat without issue. The early revision MacBook Pros however, do not.

Right, well, what you don't realize, is that there are people that only use PowerPC machines as secondary computers, or hold them as a hobby "for fun". And that's just fine, only, they don't hold them to the same standard as some people like me, where we consider them a lifestyle, not a hobby or secondary machine. So we expect greater things out of them, and when we're willing to dig, tweak, and get our hands dirty, we're almost never disappointed.

You however, can keep up this ignorant charade of mindlessly supporting broken computers like the early MacBook Pros. Yes, the ones previous to them are underpowered, technically inferior, and pale in comparison to today's low-end machines, but at least they're intensely dependable. I got my mid 2012 MacBook Pro in about early 2016 and there have already been a few graphical glitches and issues, not only that, the case itself feels like it's electrically charged when you run your hand over it. +1 for Intel, right? While you do that, I'll gladly keep up the charade of mindlessly supporting old and almost inept computers if you leave them at stock.

Well, that's your choice to block images. Not mine.

Oh yes, and to address your statement on the topic of the PowerPC not going anywhere, IBM has already released 5 revisions to the POWER4 processor in 2002, which was used to make the G5. They're up to POWER9 now, which has yet to even be released. No, it's not the PowerPC, but there's a lot more PowerPC spirit in it than an Intel Mac, that's for sure.

Anything Derived From IBM Technology: 3
Windows PCs Disguised With Apple Logos: 2

Yeah, and nice job derailing this thread and making it about upgrading to low-standard, non-user serviceable, no-moxy machines that don't feel like Apple products, instead of making something abandoned BETTER. Good job on that.
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Ho ho ho buddy, you just don't know where to stop don't you. Lets forget the iBook G3 GPU issues, the iMac G5 GPU issues or even PowerBook's lower RAM slot failing, hell I'll throw in the G5 LCS because, truly, those *ARE* real computers, not flaky, terrible Windows PCs 'disguised by Apple logos'.

I do have every revision, I have been lucky with my job enabling me to pick this up for far cheaper than current market value. These have the very same thermal design basis AS a DLSD. They are far more upgradable than a DLSD because they use SATA. You will spend more money for less performance getting an SSD for a DLSD. I don't have to run adaptors.

Also, bud, your blanket statement there is invalid. "Everyone of them has problems". Err only one of mine did, Erik's is fine, I think @bunnspecial has a couple that work without issues. Point being, yeah some have issues. Plenty of machines from that era had those issues, not just Apple. I just think you are latching onto this argument to picket "Apple Spirit", which is ridiculous. You are preaching on a brand from a corporate entity that exists to make money.

As for the heat, I can 100% guarantee that my DLSD is hotter than my 2006 MacBook Pro. I do not like using the DLSD on my lap.

I am not disappointed in my machines, I love my PowerPC stuff, but if I want to get work done, I draw the line. I'm not sure if you know where this line is, or what a line is in this regard.

"ignorant charade of mindlessly supporting broken computers", referring to my 'broken' working MacBook Pros. I guess I will, but you need to promise me, bud, that you will keep up your charade of trying to do the impossible, which is backport x86 code on a POWER arch.

If you really want to spread your "Apple Spirit, go big brother" message, I'd suggest text next time :) :)

And, really, you bring up the first Google search result as an argument against my platform argument. Yes, we have newer POWER lines, but nothing for mobile. Look around, we live in a mobile world. POWER doesn't play into mobile.


Oh, and my 'moxy' machines work for me just fine. I just upgraded my machine to 16GB of RAM. I can watch YouTube on that machine without waiting for the suns to align. I might toss in another SSD in the CD drive bay. But wait! Isn't this the 'non upgradeable' FlakeBook? Oh no!

I think you should really reconsider that last statement, at this point, hanging on to OS X 10.5 for anything other than a hobby is getting to be like fighting the ocean with a broom. There are plenty of uses for PowerPC in this age. I use my 12" for taking notes. I use my DLSD for media if my 17" MBP isn't around. I'm not anti-PPC, but I know when to fold. You don't.
 
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128keaton said:
I think you should really reconsider that last statement, at this point, hanging on to OS X 10.5 is getting to be like fighting the ocean with a broom. There are plenty of uses for PowerPC in this age. I use my 12" for taking notes. I use my DLSD for media if my 17" MBP isn't around. I'm not anti-PPC, but I know when to fold. You don't.
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No, you should reconsider this last statement. Everything you say here is a matter of opinion and personal needs.
 
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128keaton said:
but when you have a job, its difficult to get things done on PowerPC.
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At my work, it's getting increasingly difficult to use OSs older than 10.10. I need to get 10.11 on my MP, although it MIGHT soon get a better upgrade :) (you know what I'm talking about Keaton).

There are exceptions. I was brought a 17" 2004 PB today to do some upgrade work on because it has a certain combination of software that the owner still needs. I could make it work on a newer computer, but the owner doesn't really want to do that.

There's one particular piece of software(same software as above) that I commonly use in the course of my work that is PPC-only for me because I can't cough up $2K for a new copy and I'd get laughed out of the room for asking work to do it right now. Again, I have some other legacy software/hardware interfaces that are PPC only.

BTW, I have quite a few variants of pre-Unibody MBP as well. For me, it's a matter of getting one after Keaton gets a hole in his collection filled :)

I should also mention that I handle(and work on) my fair share of new and old Macs at work aside from quite a large personal collection 68K, PPC, and Intel Macs so I don't base my opinions on single examples(there are a couple of people on MR who have seen parts of my collection, and a LOT of others I've bought stuff from. The thing that happened with the G5 was a fluke and not normal, but I also feel like I have a decent baseline for what is "normal" on a lot of Macs.
 
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alright since this seemed to of turned into a post about what had the most issues, im going to list all the intel mac issues and all the PPC mac issues and let you guys decide which had the most/worst issues, this is all the issues I can recall atm, if I have missed any do tell me :) (also some of these issues vary in, from cosmetic to making the machine unusable)

ill start with PPC

PowerBook G3 Wallstreet overheating issues

PowerMac G3 BW cracking plastics

PowerMac G5 U3 Northbridge failure

iMac G5 capacitor issues

iMac G5 iSight LCD screen line issues

eMac Capacitor issues

iBook G3 GPU issues

iBook G3 bad odour from keyboards

iBook G3 clamshell plastic cracking issue

2005 iBook G4 wifi card issues

PowerBook G4 12 inch GPU issues

PowerBook G4 15 inch Lower Ram slot failure

PowerBook G4 17 inch SLSD LCD line issues

PowerMac G4 MDD noise issue

PowerMac G4 MDD PSU issues

PowerMac G4 Cube Power button issue

PowerMac G4 Cube PSU issues

iMac G3 Tray loader analog board/flyback failure

iMac G3 slot loading PAV board failure

iMac G3 slot loading speaker foam rot

PowerMac G4 Cube speaker foam rot (this one is a bit of a grey one since technically they are an accessory)

PowerMac G5 LCS leaking

PowerBook G4 TiBook hinge failure

PowerBook G4 TiBook paint issues

next up intel machines

Early MacBook1,1s Bluetooth interface issues IIRC (@MagicBoy can correct me on this one) (I will also say that the pre unibody MBPs are known for running very hot, mathematically they add up to a higher TDP then compared to a PowerBook G4)

2007-2008 MBP GPU failure

Late 2008 (and 2009?) Unibody MBPs C7771 Capacitor failure causing no Power issues

2008-2009 MacBook Air hinge issues

2010 15 inch MBP C9560 Capacitor issue causing Graphics issues

2012-early 2013 rMBP Graphics Core voltage controller IC dry joints causing Graphics issues

2008 Mac Pro 2600XT GPU failure

2007-2008 iMac GPU issues (mostly the 8800GS)

2011 iMac GPU issues

2011 (and 2012?) iMac HDD issues

unibody iMac Backlight failure

iMac LCD screen yellowing

2006 iMac LCD Lines issue

24 inch 2006 iMac GPU failure

2011 MacBook Pro 15 and 17 inch GPU issues

2012 MBA SSD issues

2013 Mac Pro GPU issues

Pre unibody Plastic MacBook Top case plastic issues

Unibody plastic MacBook Rubber bottom plate issue
 
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LightBulbFun said:
alright since this seemed to of turned into a post about what had the most issues, im going to list all the intel mac issues and all the PPC mac issues and let you guys decide which had the most/worst issues, this is all the issues I can recall atm, if I have missed any do tell me :) (also some of these issues vary in, from cosmetic to making the machine unusable)

ill start with PPC

PowerBook G3 Wallstreet overheating issues

PowerMac G5 U3 Northbridge failure

iMac G5 capacitor issues

iMac G5 iSight LCD screen line issues

eMac Capacitor issues

iBook G3 GPU issues

iBook G3 stinky keyboards

2005 iBook G4 wifi card issues

PowerBook G4 12 inch GPU issues

PowerBook G4 15 inch Lower Ram slot failure

PowerMac G4 MDD noise issue

PowerMac G4 MDD PSU issues

PowerMac G4 Cube Power button issue

PowerMac G4 Cube PSU issues

iMac G3 Tray loader analog board/flyback failure

iMac G3 slot loading PAV board failure

PowerMac G5 LCS leaking

PowerBook G4 TiBook hinge failure

PowerBook G4 TiBook paint issues

next up intel machines

Early MacBook1,1s Bluetooth interface issues IIRC (@MagicBoy can correct me on this one) (I will also say that the pre unibody MBPs are known for running very hot, mathematically they add up to a higher TDP then compared to a PowerBook G4)

2007-2008 MBP GPU failure

Late 2008 (and 2009?) Unibody MBPs C7771 Capacitor failure causing no Power issues

2008-2009 MacBook Air hinge issues

2010 15 inch MBP C9560 Capacitor issue causing Graphics issues

2012-early 2013 rMBP Graphics Core voltage controller IC dry joints causing Graphics issues

2008 Mac Pro 2600XT GPU failure

2007-2008 iMac GPU issues (mostly the 8800GS)

2011 iMac GPU issues

2011 (and 2012?) iMac HDD issues

unibody iMac Backlight failure

iMac LCD screen yellowing

2006 iMac LCD Lines issue

24 inch 2006 iMac GPU failure

2011 MacBook Pro 15 and 17 inch GPU issues

2012 MBA SSD issues

2013 Mac Pro GPU issues

Pre unibody Plastic MacBook Top case plastic issues

Unibody plastic MacBook Rubber bottom plate issue
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This wasn't even supposed to be the topic!
 
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Personally, I think the title should be changed to PowerPC Vs Intel Mac issues... that way it doesn’t have to be erased and can be viewed by everyone forever and ever! :)
 
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