UK Revives Antitrust Probe Into Apple's Browser and Cloud Gaming Restrictions

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

Chrome is the single biggest offender is incompatible web apps. The Google Suite apps really only work on Chrome.

So if you want more capable browser choices, don't kill the only one that seems to be forcing some level of standards compliance.

Again, out of all the websites I've used in the last 15 years, only one didn't work on FireFox, and said website was poorly programmed anyway with the download buttons not working properly

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Well… they are labeled a gatekeeper

 

[danakin]

What is it with all this European insanity against Apple ? Entrenched interests can't compete fair and square with them, so get their governments to take them down a peg.

I tell you what: Steve would've pulled Apple out of Europe.

Every time someone posts Apple is being done wrong and should leave or pull out of market X, a puppy dies.

 

[toobravetosave]

So you're ok with only having Chrome then.

Will Apple delete safari from existence?

I already have to use chrome for various websites because safari sucks 🤒

 

[toobravetosave]

Again, out of all the websites I've used in the last 15 years, only one didn't work on FireFox, and said website was poorly programmed anyway with the download buttons not working properly

I’ve had several popular websites necessary for school and work not load properly on safari every single time

 

[djphat2000]

At this rate sadly yes. Different is Chrome is a better browser and still improving. Apple is lagging on doing Safari updates because it does not have to compete. That means they might lag on doing secuirty updates or other improvements because they do not have to complete.

This is more it would force Apple to improve Safari and put real resources behind it.

This is odd since I see updates to Safari on Mac rumors fairly regularly (tech preview builds https://www.macrumors.com/guide/safari-technology-preview/ ).

So I don't see what you mean by they would lag behind. They do keep improving Safari.

When it comes to iOS/iPad OS. I can see the reason for allowing Chrome to be (as is) on them. It would be better to use the actual browser engine (chrome). But as discussed that would most likely lead to Safari going away. I don't think you will get any competition from Apple when 90%+ of the planet will be using Chromium exclusively.

 

[djphat2000]

Will Apple delete safari from existence?

I already have to use chrome for various websites because safari sucks 🤒

It would die a quick death if they remove the restriction on iOS/iPad OS for WebKit only engine.

 

[toobravetosave]

It would die a quick death if they remove the restriction on iOS/iPad OS for WebKit only engine.

I guess apple needs a better browser if the mere existence of chrome will literally end safari

 

[1129846]

This is odd since I see updates to Safari on Mac rumors fairly regularly (tech preview builds https://www.macrumors.com/guide/safari-technology-preview/ ).

So I don't see what you mean by they would lag behind. They do keep improving Safari.

When it comes to iOS/iPad OS. I can see the reason for allowing Chrome to be (as is) on them. It would be better to use the actual browser engine (chrome). But as discussed that would most likely lead to Safari going away. I don't think you will get any competition from Apple when 90%+ of the planet will be using Chromium exclusively.

sad truth is that is true. Apple is adding things to Safari but I am not sure they are investing nearly enough. The fact that they are forcing it for the phone makes is just allowing it to be bad.
This is kind of like sign in with Apple. Of the major Single Sign in providers I would argue Apple is among the worse to integrate, test and get to work. This is not about what Apple does and does not provide to a company. This is just getting it to work. Sign in with Apple is among the worse if not one of the worse to do. As a consumer I think Sign in with Apple is great. As a developer I hate it. If Apple did not require me to do it I would not care much. I hate implementing Facebook but for difference reasons and pain points but still easier to implement than Sign in with Apple. I use Sign in With Apple as an example of a feature that would most likely not get off the ground or would go away if Apple did not require it as it is a huge pain to get working right. Sign in with Google, super easy. Apple pain in my ass.

I feel like Safari has the same underlining issues. Apple not super motivated to make it better as they just force developer to deal with it but if Apple had real competition on iOS they might do the work needed on Safari or at the very least get more involved with Firefox and expand them.

 

[InvertedGoldfish]

What is it with all this European insanity against Apple ? Entrenched interests can't compete fair and square with them, so get their governments to take them down a peg.

I tell you what: Steve would've pulled Apple out of Europe.

To me it means their security and privacy settings must at least somewhat work


If the goverment is not unhappy with a company, I don’t like them

 

[frownface]

i don't remember this much regulation when european companies like nokia and ericsson were running the show.

 

[redheeler]

Chrome is the single biggest offender is incompatible web apps. The Google Suite apps really only work on Chrome.

So if you want more capable browser choices, don't kill the only one that seems to be forcing some level of standards compliance.

Google Suite just forces you to download the native apps on iOS, exactly the problem I was getting at…

Web apps that only work in Chrome is better than no web apps at all. And chances are if they work in Chrome then they’ll work in other browsers because unlike native apps the browsers all share common web standards. Safari on iOS will be forced to implement missing features to avoid losing market share to Chrome, making Safari better as well - that’s what happens in a healthy competitive environment.

 

[mazz0]

Waaa, stupid communist Europeans, waaa. Go away and enjoy your nationalised healthcare. We don’t need regulation to make sure markets work properly. Monopolies are underrated anyway.

^Many (but not all) Americans. I assume your compatriots are embarrassed by you.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Look at the chart I shared of web browser market share. Tell me why Safari is the only viable alternative to Chrome where Microsoft, Samsung and the FOSS army can't make a dent.

Unless you're defining the end as a literal 0%, then the numbers suggest you're very, very wrong.

Do you have any evidence for that claim?
Seems that safari isn’t that great at supporting standards.

It can simply be for two reasons:
1: Chrome is the default on android( been fined by EU and ordered to stop)
2: chrome is better 🤷‍♂️

Can I use... Support tables for HTML5, CSS3, etc

caniuse.com

 

[Analog Kid]

Again, out of all the websites I've used in the last 15 years, only one didn't work on FireFox, and said website was poorly programmed anyway with the download buttons not working properly

Sorry to make you repeat yourself, I did read your anecdote.

 

[Analog Kid]

And chances are if they work in Chrome then they’ll work in other browsers because unlike native apps the browsers all share common web standards.

They do not. Google has been turning Chrome into on OS in many ways.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

If by proper protection, you mean reducing the scope of choice by undermining the minority platforms...

The only reason websites are made to cross-platform standards is because they need to be compatible with Safari for iPhone. If this succeeds, Chrome and all its many holes and flaws will be the only option we have.

View attachment 2319302

Why should minority platforms be protected? Why are you arguing for protecting something from failing?

The only reason websites are cross compatible is because standards exists.

 

[Analog Kid]

Waaa, stupid communist Europeans, waaa. Go away and enjoy your nationalised healthcare. We don’t need regulation to make sure markets work properly. Monopolies are underrated anyway.

^Many (but not all) Americans. I assume your compatriots are embarrassed by you.

The problem with Americans is that they think their successful approach to products and technology will also work for healthcare. The problem with Europeans is that they think their successful approach to healthcare will also work for products and technology.

 

[rafark]

Once Apple is forced to allow native third party browsing engines in iOS, Google’s victory in web engine technology will be nearly complete, as in practice Chromium/Blink and Safari/WebKit are the only ones remaining.

Amazing accomplishment from the regulators 😂

If by proper protection, you mean reducing the scope of choice by undermining the minority platforms...

The only reason websites are made to cross-platform standards is because they need to be compatible with Safari for iPhone. If this succeeds, Chrome and all its many holes and flaws will be the only option we have.

View attachment 2319302

People use chrome by choice, not by force. This isn’t an IE case like it was before with Microsoft. In fact, Apple not allowing other browsers is MUCH worse than what Microsoft did in the 90s. Microsoft did allow other browsers and the internet wasn’t as essential as it is today. And yet regulators hit it hard.

Today the internet is pretty much a basic necessity, Apple doesn’t allow third party browser engines and somehow google is the bad guy and the one to blame? How? I can’t

 

[gund1234]

Then he would be fired for incompetence. Pulling out of such a lucrative market is stupid.

He would have still made money by pulling out.
Government doesn't know **** they shouldn't be controlling what technology phone manufacturers use.

 

[gund1234]

Because unlike us in the United States, Europe actually has proper consumer protection laws.

Any one can publish apps in app store, what's the problem ?
Android will let users install any app store they want, governments are still not happy.
If people want to use chrome browser then they can buy Android devices.
Apple consumers know that they can't install chrome browser in iPhone, why are they still buying them ?

 

[gund1234]

Why should Safari be force on users. Safari is only staying around because it is forced users on iOS to use it. This is the same reason why IE was so powerful is MS was able to force it on users and abused its position. It was the EU that forced some other changes that low and behold really allowed Firefox and Chrome to take off.

Apple on the other had has been lagging in improving Safari in much the same ways that MS lagged at improving IE. They used their market position to force a less browser.

I am sad that MS gave up on its own engine as they were one of the last hold outs forcing companies to make sure their pages were build to standards and worked across multiple browsers. The cost to from 1 to 2 broswers is huge. Going to 3+ vs 2 is not that much more for each new browser so you want 2 good players. Sadly Mobile safari and safari are lacking.

You can buy Android and use Chrome browser, you have freedom to buy any phone you want.
What next, why is Apple forcing users to use iOS ?
Apple should design iPhone so that users can install Windows, Linux, Android on it ?

 

[gund1234]

The problem with Americans is that they think their successful approach to products and technology will also work for healthcare. The problem with Europeans is that they think their successful approach to healthcare will also work for products and technology.

So EU government should fund development of their own phone then.

 

[gund1234]

Europe is not against apple but they have very strong regulation against abusing market position. They strongly regulated against big company using there raw size to keep competition out or companies using their market power to squeeze others outs. Basically take make it easier for a better mouse trap to get going and a foot hold.

This is fairly normal and Apple tends histority to abuse their position to squeeze others and Apple has massive market power hence why you are seeing it now.

Problem is Chrome browser will take over iPhones and EU basically helped google to increase their market share.
People should decide what they want, not government.
If people want to install any app store they want, any browser they want then there is Android for that.

 

[webkit]

Look at the chart I shared of web browser market share. Tell me why Safari is the only viable alternative to Chrome where Microsoft, Samsung and the FOSS army can't make a dent.

Unless you're defining the end as a literal 0%, then the numbers suggest you're very, very wrong.

Alternative browser engines are allowed on Macs yet Safari/WebKit has seen its desktop browser share grow significantly over time. Why should allowing alternative browser engines on iOS essentially mean the end of Safari/WebKit or sites saying, "for best experience, use Chrome", abandoning other browsers, etc.?