Ultrabooks are Macbook Air clones

[smoledman]

Something is definitely wrong in the smartphone segment as well. When one OEM is squeezing out almost all others, and sales are split between numerous OEMs who have serious trouble with differentiation. Android isn't profitable, unless you're Google counting up ad revenue or you're a carrier gouging consumers, or Samsung... who seems to be going in a direction opposite to everyone else.

It's a mess.

Smartphones - a sick and dying industry.
PCs - a sick and dying industry.

Having only one company that makes all the profits leaving nothing for other companies to invest in making better products is a sick and dying industry.

The only reason why the cloud ecosystems are flourishing is because we've got 4 major players competing hard(Amazon, Apple, Microsoft, Google) with no one utterly dominating. That's an example of real competition with constant innovation and the consumer benefiting. Consumers do not benefit from a world where the only smartphone is an iPhone and the only PC is a Mac.

Yeah you can point to the hundred different Android phones, dozen Windows Phones and 100 different PC models you can choose from right now. But the way the industry is going with almost all the profits to Apple is that model will no longer exist. You will see Dell & HP go under, followed by Acer, Asus and so on. Lenovo might hang on for a while, but by 2020 Macs will be the only thing in town.

 

[Hellhammer]

You will see Dell & HP go under, followed by Acer, Asus and so on.

They are making profit, why would they go under?

http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/invsub/results/statemnt.aspx?symbol=DELL&stmtView=Ann
http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/irol/71/71087/AR2010/HTML2/hewlett-packard-ar2010_0043.htm

Apple's market share of PC shipments is less than 6.2% (source). That means there is at least 93.8%, about 300 million units, shipped by other vendors. There is a nice chunk of profit in those 300 million units as well, even if the profit per unit is a lot lower than what Apple gets.

A market controlled by just one OEM is impossible. Even if Dell and HP went down, new OEMs would rise. Apple wouldn't automatically get their sales.

 

[smoledman]

They are making profit, why would they go under?

http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/invsub/results/statemnt.aspx?symbol=DELL&stmtView=Ann
http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/irol/71/71087/AR2010/HTML2/hewlett-packard-ar2010_0043.htm

Apple's market share of PC shipments is less than 6.2% (source). That means there is at least 93.8%, about 300 million units, shipped by other vendors. There is a nice chunk of profit in those 300 million units as well, even if the profit per unit is a lot lower than what Apple gets.

A market controlled by just one OEM is impossible. Even if Dell and HP went down, new OEMs would rise. Apple wouldn't automatically get their sales.

No you don't understand. Apple makes a $1 billion+ per quarter EBITA on Macs while the rest of the PC industry makes maybe $2 billion EBITA that has to be divided up among 6-7 PC makers. That leaves them very little money to plow back into R&D which means all we're left with are Mac knock-offs and the death spiral continues.

 

[Hellhammer]

No you don't understand. Apple makes a $1 billion+ per quarter EBITA on Macs while the rest of the PC industry makes maybe $2 billion EBITA that has to be divided up among 6-7 PC makers. That leaves them very little money to plow back into R&D which means all we're left with are Mac knock-offs and the death spiral continues.

Post sources or your claims are meaningless.

Sources. If you make claims of fact but don't cite sources when requested, the posts may be removed. If you started the thread then the thread may be closed or removed.

http://guides.macrumors.com/Help:Rules_for_Appropriate_Debate

 

[smoledman]

Post sources or your claims are meaningless.



http://guides.macrumors.com/Help:Rules_for_Appropriate_Debate

All you have to do is look at the low EBITA numbers for Acer, Asus. Look at the fact HP was about to spin off their PC division because it was unprofitable. Sure I don't have the hard EBITA #s strictly related to PCs because that info is not available, but one can infer alot by the other data points. The PC industry is very sick.

 

[roadbloc]

smoledman, you are aware that just because Apple price their products higher than anyone else, thus making great profits without making great marketshare that it is possible for other companies to make and sell their products at less of a profit and survive fine?

None of these industries are sick or dying. The PC market is gradually slowing down, natural. Apple appears to be an exception to the trend, probably due to the power of their brand and how it appears to be in fashion at the moment. Maybe this will pass in a few years, maybe it won't. But that market is fine.

 

[radiohead14]

this is nothing like a macbook air:

http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/9/2693650/lenovo-ideapad-yoga-a-windows-8-laptop-that-bends-backwards-into-a%20%20

and as a macbook air owner.. i can admit that some of these ultrabooks are quite tempting:

http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/12/2702325/the-best-ultrabooks-of-ces-2012

especially that black matte aluminum samsung series 9. that lenovo is a great idea also.

 

[mrsir2009]

Smartphones - a sick and dying industry.

Aye? What are you on?!

 

[belvdr]

Smartphones - a sick and dying industry.
PCs - a sick and dying industry.

I guess Apple is dying too, as they sell PCs (Personal Computers).

You will see Dell & HP go under, followed by Acer, Asus and so on. Lenovo might hang on for a while, but by 2020 Macs will be the only thing in town.

That's a fairly dumb statement, to put it lightly. Honestly, you obviously don't have any facts other than you love one company blindly.

HP and Dell don't just manufacture consumer goods. HP, for example, also manufactures servers, including the venerable Integrity series.

If those manufacturers were to go out of business, then all corporations will have to migrate their existing Windows infrastructure, including AD, Exchange, and SQL Server, to other products. Those migrations aren't your simple small business initiatives either that can be completed in a day or two. There are many applications, for example, that only use SQL Server as their backend database. Ironically, Oracle has many products like that.

It's not going to happen in 8 years. I doubt it will happen in 15 - 20 years.

 

[MonkeySee....]

This is pretty interesting...in relation to the thread....etc

http://www.cultofmac.com/140226/mar...k-air-knockoffs-at-ces-gallery/#disqus_thread

 

[Rodimus Prime]

All you have to do is look at the low EBITA numbers for Acer, Asus. Look at the fact HP was about to spin off their PC division because it was unprofitable. Sure I don't have the hard EBITA #s strictly related to PCs because that info is not available, but one can infer alot by the other data points. The PC industry is very sick.

Hp pc business was and still is very profitable. The ceo at the time was a pure enterprise guy and did not really understand how to deal with the hardware side so he wanted to dump what was the part of the business that was the most profitable at the time and focus only on services. The share holder revolted and he was fired.

 

[*LTD*]

Hp pc business was and still is very profitable.

Oh yes, very.

This reminds me of Homer chasing after the runaway roast pig . . . "It's just a little dirty. It's still good, it's still good!"

The PC industry is sick (PCs running Windows in particular.) HP's answer is to keep doing whatever everyone else is doing. You're seeing the results, above. The chart above isn't an isolated case. It's a growing problem in the industry.

Really the only one doing well in it is Apple. Additionally, if the trend of counting the iPad in computer share numbers continues, it really won't look pretty for the the world outside Cupertino.

The market has shifted, and the non-Apple competition is having more than a bit of trouble keeping up. Their answer? Well, I'm sure you've seen the CES photos. Apple, in some respects, is probably quite flattered.

 

[Hellhammer]

Oh yes, very.

Image

Those are US numbers only, which is meaningless. Look at the worldwide figures.

Apple isn't even in the top 5. Moreover, Apple isn't the only one that is gaining market share. Lenovo is up by 20% and ASUS is up by 10%.

 

[Eidorian]

Those are US numbers only, which is meaningless. Look at the worldwide figures.

I wonder anyone in the US affords it...

 

[Dr McKay]

Read Jobs' biography and you'll find out that Xerox did actually have some plans for the GUI. Unfortunately, they were too slow to the game and appeared to be indecisive to whether it would succeed or not.

Or is that just the story Walter Isaacson wants us to believe?

LTD has confirmed that everything written in Steve Jobs that paints Apple or Steve Jobs in anything other than a perfect light are works of fiction and falsehood

 

[KnightWRX]

This is pretty interesting...in relation to the thread....etc

http://www.cultofmac.com/140226/mar...k-air-knockoffs-at-ces-gallery/#disqus_thread

Cult of Mac... Really...

Anyway, from the article :

Aluminum case? Check. Wedge profile? Check. Chiclet keys? Check.

Oh look, they just describe all the things Apple ripped off of Sony.

 

[roadbloc]

LTD has confirmed that everything written in Steve Jobs that paints Apple or Steve Jobs in anything other than a perfect light are works of fiction and falsehood

To be fair, there was nothing that Steve Jobs did that was wrong. Its just when works of fiction and falsehood creep in to these so-called facts of his.

 

[KevinN206]

Cult of Mac... Really...

Anyway, from the article :



Oh look, they just describe all the things Apple ripped off of Sony.

Pretty much it describes the Sony X505 except it uses carbon fiber instead of aluminum. This was back in 2004. Here's a flicker site that has the two laptops side-by-side: http://www.flickr.com/photos/airwave/2299977409/in/photostream/lightbox/ Some people will point out the hinges are different, the screen is 16:9 vs 4:3 and the X505 doesn't even have a touchpad. We can say the same thing for most of the ultrabooks from CES2012. The one thing that the MBA has with the X505: Tampered design and chiclet keyboard.

How about this side-view of X505: http://reviews.zdnet.co.uk/i/z/rv/2004/09/vaio-x505-i2.gif
Side view of MBA: http://gigapple.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/tab-macbookair-feature.png?w=604&h=339

 

[KnightWRX]

Pretty much it describes the Sony X505 except it uses carbon fiber instead of aluminum. This was back in 2004.

I can't wait for people to claim Sony ripped off Apple with their new "ultrabook" design :

Considering all those visual cues pretty much come from Sony, we're in for some history rewriting here for sure...

 

[danahn17]

In a sense yes, they continue the lawsuits because Jobs instilled that same sense of "we're fighting against the injustice of the world" mentality.

Apple is fighting "injustices of the world?"

Why then the criticisms of Apple in regards to China workers? Why is Apple making huge amounts of profits while their suppliers' profits are still the same? Why go to China in the first place when millions of Americans still need jobs and the American economy still needs help?

If I had the money and manpower Apple has, there's a million ways I can think of to help fight injustices. Lawsuits against a competitor is not one of them.

But the way the industry is going with almost all the profits to Apple is that model will no longer exist. You will see Dell & HP go under, followed by Acer, Asus and so on. Lenovo might hang on for a while, but by 2020 Macs will be the only thing in town.

In business, Windows still is more accepted than OS X and companies are still making large contract purchases with companies like Lenovo. I dont see that changing anytime soon.

And even if it did, Macs being the only thing in town would not be a good thing... Apple would be an evil monopoly (didn't we hate a company like that before?).

 

[MonkeySee....]

I can't wait for people to claim Sony ripped off Apple with their new "ultrabook" design :

Considering all those visual cues pretty much come from Sony, we're in for some history rewriting here for sure...

Man, you guys are incredible.

 

[Abstract]

Yes, incredible.

Using photographic evidence to support your claims is an internet forum crime.


*shakes fist angrily*

 

[KnightWRX]

Man, you guys are incredible.

Incredible what ? Sony were the first to use all those characteristics in a laptop, the chiclet keyboard, the wedge shape. They even beat Apple to the whole ultrathin thing.

So really, that new Vaio ultrabook laptop, I dare you to call it a MacBook Air clone.

 

[MonkeySee....]

Incredible what ? Sony were the first to use all those characteristics in a laptop, the chiclet keyboard, the wedge shape. They even beat Apple to the whole ultrathin thing.

So really, that new Vaio ultrabook laptop, I dare you to call it a MacBook Air clone.

Does it look like their other style/design of laptops or does it look a MBA?

 

[boss.king]

Does it look like their other style/design of laptops or does it look a MBA?

Well having seen prior Sony laptops, I'd say the MBA is their style of design, so it's a yes either way really. The MBA looks great, but there's no denying that it's core design elements can be found in old Sony laptops.