Upgrading a 4,1 2009 quadcore 2.93 Mac Pro

[Nessdufrat]

Hi there,
Starting my own thread since I figured out I would have lots of questions and it would be easier to post them in my own topic instead of bumping up everybody's old threads.
I've been wanting to buy a Mac Pro for a very long time, my wish was a 2012 2x6 3.43ghz, but I didn't have the cash, and last week, I found a Mac Pro 2009 quad core 2.93Ghz in the trash (yep, I do find crazy things in the trash all the time. I did find two iPads 64go wifi 3G first gen the same day, one of them still somewhat functional).
I already ordered a Nvidia GeForce GTX980 4GB since that's the one I intended for the dream Mac Pro in the first place (and I won an auction at a fair price), and I was planning on upgrading the processor to a 6 core 3.43Ghz. My choice will be the X5690, in case I do find another 2009 or 2010 Mac Pro with dual processor in the trash so that I can take the CPU tray and add a second processor. A girl can dream...
But, I figured out, Mac Pros are like super cheap here in the US compared to Europe, and shipping is expensive, but it could be interesting if I find a good auction to get myself a 2009 or 2010 Mac Pro with dual processor with a good speed already, to get it, to put the awesome parts I got with mine (512GB SSD and 3x 2TB HD) inside and to sell the rest as another Mac Pro. My question: what about power? I know on a PC, there's this little switch where you can decide if you want to input 110V or 220V, but I didn't see anything like this on the mac, and I would want to buy it and fry it the first time I plug it in.
Also, maybe my idea is completly dumb, but I was looking for CPU trays and they are almost as expensive as a whole Mac Pro 2009 with 2x6 3.43Ghz when they come with something like 2.2.93Ghz...
Advice needed here

 

[DeltaMac]

The voltage/power supply question has a simple answer: Most Macs will sense whatever voltage is plugged in, and autoswitch to that voltage - assuming it is a normal line voltage. All you should need is a simple plug adapter, if the country's standard electrical plug is a different configuration.
There's also an electrical requirement listed on the serial number label (located at the bottom of the port opening in the back of your Mac Pro). If you see your local voltage listed there, you will be fine.

 

[DanSilov]

I was hunting for dual-CPU MacPro on eBay for about a month last year and finally bought one for about $500. I think this is still doable. I bought in the US while I was there, transported back to Europe and it works fine OOB, no problems with power, PSU is universal.

Buying dual CPU tray is an option, but you will definitely pay around the same price for it.

Don't go for X5690, it's unreasonably priced. X5680 3.33Ghz would be usually much cheaper, while performance-wise practically the same. But you also need to keep in mind, that since you need 4,1 dual-CPU board, it will require CPU delidding. In a single-CPU board chips are using lids, while in dual-CPU they do not.

 

[Nessdufrat]

X5690 are around 120$, I find that still reasonable. Or is that overpriced? And yeah, I read about the delidding thing, but is that still the case with a 2010 tray? This one would go inside my early 2009 mac, right?
I'm currently looking at a 2x6 core which is already 3.33 so I wouldn't even have to upgrade. But shipping is costly, and then there's taxes. Still beats a ticket to the US and back ^^
Still considering how much sense such a venture would make

And yeah, my voltage is pretty standard, it's 220V. On the back, it's written 110-240, if I'm not mistaken, so I guess it means I'd be alright. As for the cable, I have tons of those in a box, any regular PC cable does the trick. It's not as pretty but it works just the same.

 

[DanSilov]

X5690 are around 120$, I find that still reasonable. Or is that overpriced?

Probably went down a little since last year. $120 is ok.

And yeah, I read about the delidding thing, but is that still the case with a 2010 tray? This one would go inside my early 2009 mac, right?

I still don't really know if 5,1 tray can go inside 4,1, since they have different SMC controller. I would love for someone to actually verify this, last time I've read they are not compatible.

I'm currently looking at a 2x6 core which is already 3.33 so I wouldn't even have to upgrade. But shipping is costly, and then there's taxes. Still beats a ticket to the US and back ^^
Still considering how much sense such a venture would make

You can try on of reshipping companies, not sure if that helps with taxes. I was visiting in the US, so was able to time my purchases with my stay.

 

[Nessdufrat]

No, reshipping companies just ship the items to you, you still get the taxes.
I read somewhere that the 2010 tray was compatible, but I couldn't say for sure (and of course, I can't guarantee the info is valid).
Delidding is really complicated? I was also looking at a dual CPU Mac Pro 2009 in Switzerland but it's on the other side of the country (like, really, you have to cross all of Switzerland. It is a small country, though, so I guess it wouldn't be more than five hours with the train) and it's 2x2.26Ghz. The idea would have been to replace both CPUs with 6 cores 3.43Ghz, but I must admit I kinda forgot about the delidding thing (not really forgot, more decided to "deal with it later"). Besides, I'm pretty sure it won't be much cheaper that the one in the US (it's an auction).
Would you do it or do you think it's a stupid idea and it's not worth it? I mean, 6 core 3.43ghz would already be a good computer, but I was planning on doing renders on it and from what I saw with my quad core MacBook Pro, the more cores the better. BUT, I did buy a kickass graphic card, maybe that's enough and I don't need to put $950+ (I have to put aside at least $250 for shipping and taxes) into the processor upgrade (granted, I'll probably be able to get them back selling the other one, but one has to find the right buyer).

 

[ActionableMango]

2010 and 2009 CPU trays are not 100% interchangeable with each other. They will boot up and operate, but there is an SMC version mismatch and the fans will run at full speed.

I never thought to try to see if fan control software could manage the fans in that scenario, and now I don't have Mac Pros to try any more. Oh well.

 

[Nessdufrat]

I can't speak for mac pros, but I can speak for SMC troubles (as I'm still trying to fix a broken SMC controller on an iMac. I might open a thread about this one, since it remains a mystery and it's frustrating), a fan control software based on the SMC can't do anything if the SMC is acting crazy. But in my case, I was trying to completly bypass the SMC, so maybe that's why ^^
Anyway, that's a great info. In that case, I'll drop that crazy idea. Either I buy that 2x6 core Mac Pro that's already featuring two good processors and I don't have to change them, either I keep the one I found in the trash, upgrade with the x5690 (it's the exact same price as the w3690. BTW, any downside about buying these from China? They come with a warranty and reviews are good, they are also way cheaper than the ones I could find in Germany, for example, and I don't have to care about taxes because they mark the package as gift with low value) and leave it at that.

 

[Nessdufrat]

First thing first, Mac Pro is now running the 5,1 EFI. And super silly question: I just discovered I have a SuperDrive inside, how do you actually access it? (During the upgrade, when the mac restarted, the tray opened and closed, so I was like "ok, I guess there's that too") I didn't see a button or anything, and when I pushed on it, nothing happened.
Sorry, it's really my very first Mac Pro...

 

[h9826790]

2010 and 2009 CPU trays are not 100% interchangeable with each other. They will boot up and operate, but there is an SMC version mismatch and the fans will run at full speed.

I never thought to try to see if fan control software could manage the fans in that scenario, and now I don't have Mac Pros to try any more. Oh well.

From memory, the mismatched SMC can't get the fan RPM reading. Therefore, it's also impossible to control the fan's RPM by any software.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

First thing first, Mac Pro is now running the 5,1 EFI. And super silly question: I just discovered I have a SuperDrive inside, how do you actually access it? (During the upgrade, when the mac restarted, the tray opened and closed, so I was like "ok, I guess there's that too") I didn't see a button or anything, and when I pushed on it, nothing happened.
Sorry, it's really my very first Mac Pro...

Eject on the keyboard

 

[Nessdufrat]

Ok, so simple... I was so focused on the computer itself that I didn't think to look elsewhere. Thanks

 

[flowrider]

Eject on the keyboard

Only if it's an Apple Keyboard. In MacOS Sierra F12 no longer works to eject digital media. You must do it manually from the menu bar.

OP said quad core 4,1. The single CPU cMP 4,1 does not require delidding for CPU replacement like the 4,1 DP cMP.

Lou

 

[Nessdufrat]

It's an apple keyboard. I'm running El Capitan at the moment. And yeah, delidding was only in case I found a dual processor tray and decided to buy a second processor to go with the one I'm going to put inside the mac. I know right now I have nothing to do, just put it in, put the thermal paste, and voila. But if I do upgrade to a dual processor tray and take my processor with me before buying a twin to go with it, I'd have to find a solution because of the delidding thing.
I'm guessing it won't happen. A pair of delidded 6 cores in 3.4 and even 3.33 cost too much money, and that's not even considering the cost of a CPU tray on top of that. Still, I guess I'll go for the x5690 over the w3690 since the price is exactly the same.
Another question: is a PCIe SSD really way faster than a SSD in the SATA bay? I'm wondering, since I've seen several people having a PCIe SSD by OWC. I do have a PCIe and a SATA SSD in my iMac, but I can't really judge how efficient one is over the other, since the computer is blocked at 0.8ghz CPU because of the crazy SMC controller (bought the PCIe SSD when I thought the SATA cable wasn't working properly, it turned out to be fine). It a question out of mere curiosity, since I already have a 512GB SSD in the SATA bay, so I'm not really planning on buying another one.

 

[flowrider]

^^^^I believe it is. See my Post #245 here:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/nvme-for-mac-pro-5-1.1919972/page-10#post-24757404

BTW, I don't trust OWC stuff, especially SSDs and RAM, There are many threads on this site explaining why.

Lou

 

[h9826790]

It's an apple keyboard. I'm running El Capitan at the moment. And yeah, delidding was only in case I found a dual processor tray and decided to buy a second processor to go with the one I'm going to put inside the mac. I know right now I have nothing to do, just put it in, put the thermal paste, and voila. But if I do upgrade to a dual processor tray and take my processor with me before buying a twin to go with it, I'd have to find a solution because of the delidding thing.
I'm guessing it won't happen. A pair of delidded 6 cores in 3.4 and even 3.33 cost too much money, and that's not even considering the cost of a CPU tray on top of that. Still, I guess I'll go for the x5690 over the w3690 since the price is exactly the same.
Another question: is a PCIe SSD really way faster than a SSD in the SATA bay? I'm wondering, since I've seen several people having a PCIe SSD by OWC. I do have a PCIe and a SATA SSD in my iMac, but I can't really judge how efficient one is over the other, since the computer is blocked at 0.8ghz CPU because of the crazy SMC controller (bought the PCIe SSD when I thought the SATA cable wasn't working properly, it turned out to be fine). It a question out of mere curiosity, since I already have a 512GB SSD in the SATA bay, so I'm not really planning on buying another one.

Depends on usage. PCIe AHCI SSD is way more faster than SATA SSD in sequential speed. But roughly the same performance in 4k read QD1.

Therefore, really depends on how you use it. If you use it to duplicate very large file. PCIe SSD can easily be 3-6 times faster (depends on your setup). But for something like boot time, there should be no noticible difference.

 

[DanSilov]

Delidding is really complicated?

Once you know how, it's not that complicated, but getting the hang of it is quite tricky. There are guys on eBay who will delid CPUs for you at about €100 per pair.

Would you do it or do you think it's a stupid idea and it's not worth it? I mean, 6 core 3.43ghz would already be a good computer, but I was planning on doing renders on it and from what I saw with my quad core MacBook Pro, the more cores the better.

Renders these days more dependent on GPU, so I'd say don't worry about it for now. Invest in PCIe SSD, good amount of RAM (if you don't have it already), extra HDDs, but other than that you will be fine.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

Delidding makes almost no difference. Linus Tech Tips tested this out, as well as variations of how to apply paste. Saving a degree means nothing in desktop computing.

 

[DanSilov]

Delidding makes almost no difference. Linus Tech Tips tested this out, as well as variations of how to apply paste. Saving a degree means nothing in desktop computing.

Dual-CPU tray in 4,1 is suited only for delidded CPUs, hence the need to delid them. Without delidding you need to use shavers on screws or do some other non-ideal tricks. It's not an exercise is cooling.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

Dual-CPU tray in 4,1 is suited only for delidded CPUs, hence the need to delid them. Without delidding you need to use shavers on screws or do some other non-ideal tricks. It's not an exercise is cooling.

We know that for years, thanks. It was easier and cheaper than delidding.

 

[Nessdufrat]

Oh, if it's only a matter of a bit of DIY on the screws and thermal paste, I guess I'm alright. I'll go ahead and drop the crazy idea of buying that mac in the US and wait for a dual tray in the magic trashbin.
Right now, I have 32gb ram, and 6TB HDD (3x 2TB 7200tr/min) + the 512Gb SSD in the first SATA bay, so I guess I'm all set regarding ram (can't go higher in that MP) and HDD.

I found a SAMSUNG MZVPV256HDGL-00000 on eBay for around $115 including shipping but I guess it's the NVMe version, is that alright or is that bad? (Good thing is, that one is already in France and the seller is open to offers, so I might be able to lower the price.)
There's also one from a Lenovo computer, but with a slightly different reference, ending with L7. Not sure about the compatibility, I guess it's the same, it's just that is was inside a Lenovo computer. This one is currently cheap (auction).
I guess I have to buy a PCIe adapter for it, but these are rather cheap.
Also, the safe bet would be to go for the AHCI version over the NVMe, right?

Another question: I'm getting my GeForce GTX980 next week, what cables do I need to buy for it? Two 8 pins to 6 pins or two 6 pins to 6 pins? I was planning on ordering them on Amazon later today so that I can get them around the same time as the card and test the card as soon as I get it. I read many threads about that one but I can't figure out where to plug in the pins for the graphic cards since people have different opinions about that. It's the GTX980, not the GTX980 Ti.

Thanks

Edit : and I'm trying my luck here, but no chance I could ever use this SSD in my Mac Pro? It's from an iMac late 2012. I was planning on selling it on eBay if I couldn't fix the iMac, but maybe I could use it for the MP instead with the right adapter.

 

[Synchro3]

Another question: I'm getting my GeForce GTX980 next week, what cables do I need to buy for it? Two 8 pins to 6 pins or two 6 pins to 6 pins? I was planning on ordering them on Amazon later today so that I can get them around the same time as the card and test the card as soon as I get it. I read many threads about that one but I can't figure out where to plug in the pins for the graphic cards since people have different opinions about that. It's the GTX980, not the GTX980 Ti.

GTX 980 needs 2 x 6 pin to mini 6 pin: http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gtx-980/specifications

Here you go: https://www.amazon.com/JacobsParts-Express-6-pin-Video-Power/dp/B00OSLGBIC

 

[flowrider]

^^^^No, only some off the GTX 980s have two six pin connectors, the majority have two eight pin connectors. The OP needs to identify the card by brand and model before that determination can be made.

Lou

 

[Nessdufrat]

Thanks a lot. I kept seeing everywhere that it needed 6 pin to 8 pin, and that I needed to separate the cable to attach the 6 pins part somewhere and the remaining 2 pins somewhere else... Seemed complicated. I did see such a setup on PCs before, though, for high power consumption graphic cards. One I pulled out of a PC I found in the trash had something like that (the guy threw away the PC because the graphic card was faulty. I live in a country of crazy people. Anyway, my gain, I now have a perfectly fine quadcore i7 2.93ghz PC).

EDIT : oh, thanks Lou, so I was right in waiting. My model is a PNY. I guess I'll have to wait and see... :/

Apparently, from the PNY website, it's 1x 6-pin Aux Input and 1x 8-pin Aux Input.
BTW, the card costs something like $500+?!! WTF?!! I paid $175 for mine with shipping. Ok, second hand on ebay, but from a seller with perfect feedback, invoice is given with the card, comes in the original box... And it's the same one, the GTX980 4GB Nvidia from PNY. I know I'm always pretty lucky with auctions and stuff, a friend was actually really jealous when I told him especially since the seller lived three blocks away from him and he was looking for this card too, but still.
Ok, I'm really unlucky in every other aspect of life, so maybe that's karma's way of balancing things out

What cables should I order, then? A 6 pin to 6 pin, and a 6 pin to 8 pin? or 8 pin to 8 pin? Is there a way to put a 8 pin on the motherboard, like by separating the pins, like the thing I saw? Sorry, I'm so new to this, I feel like I do when I go to the garage with my car. New feeling for me with computers, I must say...

 

[flowrider]

^^^^If it's the PNY 4GB reference CG edition, that has 2 six pin connectors. I believe it's the only PNY GTX 980 that does.

https://www.pny.com/gtx-980-4096mb-gddr5-pci-e_3_0

Lou