Upgrading a 4,1 2009 quadcore 2.93 Mac Pro

[Nessdufrat]

It does look exactly like that. I couldn't find it on the PNY website, I found another with a different look and assumed it was a "stripped down" look ^^

And you are lucky in the US, because here in Europe, finding the cables is not easy at all. Amazon.com doesn't deliver to my place, and there isn't anything similar with reasonable price AND reasonable shipping delays (like, I'd like to be able to test my card before the end of this summer). Luckily, I found somebody in France selling these as a bundle. They are more expensive, but at least I'll be able to get them in a few days.
I guess I can safely order the bundle with the 2 6 pins cables, since the other cards from PNY look so different from mine.
Also, I was planning on testing it on the PC in the meantime, but I realize now that it might be complicated since I have a 500W power supply (maybe 550W, not sure anymore) and system on one disk, data on another, and I guess I'd have to unplug absolutely everything except the two drives and the graphic card to test it. Not that convenient.
That PC will be completely disassembled anyway, but I'd rather have one functional desktop while I'm having fun with the new mac ^^

Any opinion on the iMac SSD and the possibility to put it inside the mac pro? I guess I'd better sell it on ebay anyway, since it actually costs way more than the one for the mac pro (at least that was the case a few months ago. The only way to get one was to disassemble an iMac or a retina macbook). And besides, 128GB is not enough if I want to install the system on it (I want a dual boot with Windows).

 

[DanSilov]

And you are lucky in the US, because here in Europe, finding the cables is not easy at all. Amazon.com doesn't deliver to my place, and there isn't anything similar with reasonable price AND reasonable shipping delays (like, I'd like to be able to test my card before the end of this summer). Luckily, I found somebody in France selling these as a bundle. They are more expensive, but at least I'll be able to get them in a few days.

I live in Europe, you can order _some_ things on Amazon.com, but you can find a lot of things on Amazon.co.uk or Amazon.de which will definitely deliver to Europe. Also, Aliexpress is one of best choices for many things these days. A friend of mine ordered a couple of X5680's there, for example.

Any opinion on the iMac SSD and the possibility to put it inside the mac pro? I guess I'd better sell it on ebay anyway, since it actually costs way more than the one for the mac pro (at least that was the case a few months ago. The only way to get one was to disassemble an iMac or a retina macbook). And besides, 128GB is not enough if I want to install the system on it (I want a dual boot with Windows).

Read other topics on Mac Pro upgrade (there's one active right now). Don't bother with dual booting from the same drive, use dedicated drives for every system instead. Also, while PCIe M.2 blade is nice for some cases, as many have pointed out before, in real world use you won't find it to be very different from just connecting your SSD to SATA on Mac Pro using the right cradle.

 

[Nessdufrat]

Yeah, I'm the queen of ordering stuff on Amazon UK, Germany, France and even Spain according to the prices for each item (the same sellers don't offer the same prices everywhere. For example, you sometimes have flash sales in Germany for Bang Olufsen and the same item is 100€ cheaper), and then, having them delivered either to France when it's interesting and the sellers don't deduce the VAT or to Switzerland (since Switzerland doesn't have an Amazon website, one can usually order from Amazon.fr and .de at no additional shipping cost for the Prime items), then I pay only 8% VAT instead of the 20%. I saved hundreds of euros like that. The perks of living on the border and having a business address in Switzerland and a home address in France ^^
And yeah, aliexpress is the first place I go for anything. That's where I was going to order the X5690. It's in my wishlist right now. Waiting for the graphic card first.

Right now, I already have one SSD in the first SATA bay, it's 512GB. I can never use all of it for one system. I'm used to dual boot on one single disk, that's what I have on my other macs, with bootcamp. I could put a samsung 850 pro in the second SATA bay, I have a spare 256GB one in the iMac I'm trying to fix, I was planning to put it inside the new PC, but that would mean sacrificing one of the 2TB HDD, and I kinda liked having all that space around.

 

[Synchro3]

And you are lucky in the US, because here in Europe, finding the cables is not easy at all. Amazon.com doesn't deliver to my place, and there isn't anything similar with reasonable price AND reasonable shipping delays (like, I'd like to be able to test my card before the end of this summer). Luckily, I found somebody in France selling these as a bundle. They are more expensive, but at least I'll be able to get them in a few days.

Then use eBay, examples: http://www.ebay.de/itm/Mini-6pin-to...139504?hash=item33b234d730:g:ouMAAOSwll1Wzhvk

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Mac-Pro-Mac-...929565?hash=item3ab9a87a9d:g:nkYAAOSwCQNWeSCQ

Just search for '6 pin to mini 6 pin mac' or '8 pin to mini 6 pin mac'

 

[Nessdufrat]

Yes, I found mine on ebay. But the seller is in France and unlike that one located in HKG with estimated arrival around mid to end of July, mine will be here in two days. But it will cost me $12 for the pack. I guess that's alright. I might buy the USB 3 card from the same seller, not sure yet. I was going for that one first: https://www.amazon.fr/dp/B00HJ1DULE...TF8&colid=2PXRW0SH0OU1E&coliid=I26AH94UBBQ4ZR it has good reviews.

I would have liked the Sonnet Allegro but the price is insane here (68€), also I'm not sure the rare cases where I'll have to transfer data between two USB 3 devices is worth the 40€ price difference.

BTW, I contacted the guy who sold me the graphic card, since he told me he was going to ship it on Monday, and simply asked him to tell me about the connectors (I figured out he might not have packed it yet). He confirmed it was 2x 6 pins connectors. So it's indeed the CG version, with the 2x 6 pins I wish I had done that in the first place instead of bothering everybody on the forum with my stupid question. So sorry about that...

 

[flowrider]

^^^^Before buying components, and asking questions, you may want to use the search function on the forum. It really works!!!! I had a Inatek KT4004 and it worked OK but was sorta of slow for a USB 3.0 card:

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...classic-mac-pro.1501482/page-50#post-20677330

For the past couple of years I have used a RocketU 1144C. Each port has it's own channel.

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...classic-mac-pro.1501482/page-71#post-23901055

The Sonnet Allegro is also an OK card:

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-recommendations.1923726/page-2#post-22030170

Lou

 

[Nessdufrat]

I actually did research the Inateck card, not on this forum, I admit, but I read reviews and thought it should be pretty ok. When I said the Sonnet card was too expensive at 68€, that means the RocketU that costs almost 200€ was not even considered, not for one second.

 

[Nessdufrat]

So, it is done! The gtx980 is inside the Mac Pro, and it wasn't without pain.
First I did a clean reinstall of El Capitan since until now I was just using the one I put on top of Yosemite and there were still things belonging to the old user even though I deleted the account. Also, I installed bootcamp and Windows already since I figured it might be trickier without bootscreen.
Anyway, I also cleaned the computer because it was clogged with dust. But this damn card would fit in the PCIe slot, and I couldn't see anything, and I was getting desperate... I really felt like a beginner with that card. I never had that much troubles fitting a card inside a PCIe slot before.
But I didn't break anything, and after a weird phase where my Bluetooth mouse wouldn't work anymore at login, I was able to get the card to work on Mac OS and on Windows.
Next step : upgrading the processor!

Also, I'm super disappointed because I've read that my thunderbolt screen won't work with it. It's logical, but still. It's the display I use with the MacBook Pro and I actually would miss it if I didn't have it with it anymore, but now I have a great graphic card and just my cintiq as a screen. A friend might be able to get me a Cinema Display 30" for quite cheap (under $200), I'm considering it as I've heard good things about this screen. I have to act quick because the display will be gone tomorrow.

As for the usb3 card, I'm still undecided. I haven't gone for the inateck yet, as some people are reporting problems with El Capitan, but I really wish the sonnet were cheaper here in Europe :/

 

[DanSilov]

As for the usb3 card, I'm still undecided. I haven't gone for the inateck yet, as some people are reporting problems with El Capitan, but I really wish the sonnet were cheaper here in Europe :/

Inateck is fine for regular (not hardcore) use. Works fine in Sierra.

 

[carpsafari]

Get this card, I had many already before never had any complaint.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Port-Supe...236734?hash=item3ad0908a7e:g:WcsAAOSwepZXTcxN

 

[Nessdufrat]

Ok, thanks! I saw it too when I was looking for a card but I discarded it rather quickly because I thought it might be the kind of things that work for six months and then fall apart. I had a pcmcia usb3 adapter for my MacBook Pro from hong kong, no brand, and after a while, it simply started to stop working in the middle of files transfers. So it was really unreliable. I was afraid it might be the case with the card as well.

Any thoughts on the Cinema Display?

 

[carpsafari]

Don't worry, the one I bought for myself is 1 1/2 year old and I bought at least 50 more...no complaint from any...that's already better than the Inanteck .

Any thoughts on the Cinema Display?

Yeah, I don't like them...I have a NEC Multisync myself.

 

[Nessdufrat]

NEC are good screens. What don't you like with the apple display? Colors aren't true? I was mainly looking for a large screen with good resolution, dvi input was good for me since the cintiq can go DisplayPort (just have to switch the cable, it's not a five minutes operation and I need to find the DisplayPort cable first but still), the mini cintiq is hdmi and my 27 fudjitsu screen (on the PC right now, its my main working screen,wouldn't really want to take it for the Mac Pro but I might until I find a suitable screen) is also DisplayPort. I have one dvi dual link output, three DisplayPort and one hdmi, if I remember correctly.
What makes me hesitate regarding the apple display is the power consumption. Seems huge. Also, the screen itself is very heavy, it seems almost as heavy as my cintiq. But if I can get it for really cheap, it might be worth it until I get something else. Difficult decision.

 

[carpsafari]

What don't you like with the apple display? Colors aren't true?

Overpriced,
Hard to calibrate (love the built in calibration for the NEC...like Eizo)
No option to connect a second computer (which I find very handy)

The NEC is 30" too btw, also 2560x1600 and DVI dual link.

I have one dvi dual link output, three DisplayPort and one hdmi, if I remember correctly.

Correct.
You can run 4 monitors.
or 2x4K
or 1x5K plus ...
[doublepost=1499388234][/doublepost]

dvi input was good for me since the cintiq can go DisplayPort (just have to switch the cable, it's not a five minutes operation and I need to find the DisplayPort cable first but still

Here's a good link

BTW remember that this adapter only supports up to full HD (1920x1200)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Display-Por...532695?hash=item5699345b17:g:tCUAAOSw~y9ZCL~p

 

[ActionableMango]

Ok, thanks! I saw it too when I was looking for a card but I discarded it rather quickly because I thought it might be the kind of things that work for six months and then fall apart.

...says the person using a Mac Pro recovered from a magic trash bin.

 

[Nessdufrat]

The NEC is 30" too btw, also 2560x1600 and DVI dual link.

Yeah, but it's like $1000, really out of budget for me. Remember I'm the poor girl who is going through the trash to build computers ^^

...says the person using a Mac Pro recovered from a magic trash bin.

Lol. Yeah, but as long as I don't have to pay for it it's fine ^^

BTW, magic trash bin strikes again, I wanted to buy a Magic Trackpad and I was looking at auctions, following a bunch, and I went by the recycling station since I was nearby to pick up a package. Wasn't planned at all since I didn't have to throw away anything. I didn't find anything fancy like an iPad or an iMac (still haven't done the hackintosh thingy to try to get it to work with a fake SMC, BTW) or a PC (building it as we speak) or the trashbin Mac Pro (they are aware they should keep an eye for it and put it aside for me if they see it ^^ in case somebody dies and the family is getting rid of their things, they might think it's worthless and throw it away), but I did find...a Magic Trackpad. Bingo. And it works.
That's how I found my last two Mighty Mouse, I gave one to a friend since I already had one and kept the other (I had the Magic Mouse already), and I also found all my cables and two WD My Book (a USB one and a FireWire one, both are 1 Tb, the FireWire one will be good for the Mac Pro in case I ever run out of space with my 6Tb SATA drives. Lol) I do love this magic trash bin. I wished long enough for a thunderbolt screen, but no such luck. But I did wish for a Mac Pro and it happened.
Also, the very morning I was hesitating to buy new harman kardon soundsticks, I found some. Like I told my friends and my neighbors, don't ever buy an Ethernet cable, I have a full box of them. People are throwing them away like crazy because of wifi, and whenever I see a good once (like cat 5E or 6), I take it. I'm also giving plenty of stuff to goodwill, but I'm not allowed to give computer things (cables are alright, screens too, but the two good ones I found went to friends in need of screens).

 

[DeltaMac]

I suppose that you won't tell us where "Trashbin" parks his van

 

[Nessdufrat]

Lol. I could, but it's in Switzerland so it wouldn't help you a lot. Suffice to say, it's in a place where people are so rich they can't be bothered to go to goodwill to drop things off or to put things on the internet to sell them. If it takes up too much space, they just throw them away.
Ok, I'm really badmouthing here... For real, very often, people have to move quickly because a lot of them work for the embassies or the UN, and they get a new mission somewhere, and have to leave to a new country and can't take their stuff with them. They don't have time to wait for goodwill to come take their stuff or to start giving things away, so they go to the recycling station and start throwing things away. Also, a lot of people don't understand that their electronics are still going to work if they take them to the US. And most of them are filthy rich and whenever they get new stuff they can't be bothered to give the old perfectly fine stuff to goodwill and will simply throw it away. The people working there tell me that sometimes after Christmas they get things still wrapped in the package.
And, sometimes, somebody dies and the family doesn't know what to do with the stuff and they throw it away. Or they don't die and they simply go to a retiring home, but same scenario (but I'm talking sofas and house appliances here).
The people working at the recycling station are angry with the fact that the rules forbid anybody from taking stuff out of the collectors. So they allow people to discreetly take things home, if they ask nicely. I'm the only one allowed near the IT collectors, because they know I will never ever intrude on the users privacy and I will erase the data first thing. Also, they are aware of everything I'm taking from the other bins (home appliance, especially, to give to goodwill) and they appreciate that. And they know I'm super poor and I'm never trying to take advantage (one of them offered a bunch of really fine clothes (tailored clothes and leather shoes worth hundreds of dollars) for me to take and sell, but I knew these were otherwise going to goodwill and I refused, because I'm okay taking things that would otherwise be destroyed, but I'm not okay taking things that would be given to goodwill). Not sure whether it was a test or not, but anyway, they know I'm honest.

Edit : BTW, bought the Cinema Display. Got it for $160, it was a bargain. If I don't like it, the going price for that screen in my country is around $350 easy so I could always sell it away. I'm not getting it now, probably end of July, my friend needs to bring it to me, the screen is in Paris right now (so is the friend), and he's coming back on the 20th to Lyon, so either I'm super impatient and I go to Lyon to pick it up, either I wait till my bestfriend (not the same friend but they know each other) come see me end of July / beginning of August). I might be impatient ^^ (also, there are some super cool thrift stores in Lyon and I'm a clothes addict...)

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

So, what is your current total expense on this Mac Pro? I like refurbishing old 2009 MP's also, and try to shave every dollar where possible. My first one is a X5690 but now I go with the X5670's because for 10% speed decrease from X5690 or X5680, I can get a CPU for $30 on ebay. Currently working on a dual 2009 I got for $500, but already killed a CPU trying to delid it (too much heat, I think, since there is no physical damage). Had to order another, so that cost me $35 more to buy another CPU.

You can find Samsung AHCI m.2 SSD's on Amazon still (here in the US)...about $100 for a 256GB, so that and a $20 card is the best deal because a SATA SSD in a SATA 2 bay is TOO SLOW for me! I've tried the OWC cards, and Apricorns...still too slow. Hate getting only 800MB/s when I know the SSD is good for 2-3x that!

When I get done with the dual CPU, I can sell off my single CPU (the Mac Pro itself was a free find), so can make enough money on it to pay for the expense of my soon-to-be new dual 64GB 12-core 2.93Ghz Mac Pro!

Fun times!

 

[Nessdufrat]

Right now, 164€ for the GTX980 including shipping + 11€ for the cables. Not sure whether I should count the screen as Mac Pro related costs, but if so, got it for 148€.
So far, I haven't bought the processor, but I'm going for the X5690, a bit over €100. And if I get the cheap usb3 card, let's add about 25€ to that. And about 20€ for misc. stuff like thermal paste, cleaning solution, new can of compressed air (mine was empty) but I bought that for my MacBook Pro too since I'm planning to reapply thermal paste on the processor as it's constantly overheating and the insides are quite clean so it's not dust related. And since its sitting on a flat surface (a desk. It's even slightly elevated, I put it on a notebook USB fan), it's not because it can't cool itself. And even though I'm working with the thunderbolt and the external keyboard, the lid is always open.
I'm watching an auction for a 2009 Mac Pro dual processor (2.26ghz) which is pretty useless by itself so it might not go high, but I could get it for the CPU tray and then sell it with my CPU tray inside it. But I don't know. Would require me crossing Switzerland by train, and then going to the hassle of selling a computer, and also doing the tricky procedure of changing the CPUs (and judging by your experience with delidding the CPUs, it seems risky). I might simply change my CPU and see how it goes first. Unless the other one sells for $300, then it might be worth it. Although I'm not even sure, when you add that to the cost of two CPUs and the $40 train ticket (special offer day round ticket you have to book in advance, otherwise it's crazy expensive)

And bootspeed is indeed pretty slow (it's a 512gb SSD in the SATA bay), no idea why. Probably the processor. Bootspeed is slow on the iMac too, that's because the processor is capped at 0.8ghz by the stupid SMC which is damaged. So I guess changing the processor might help with that more than changing the SSD first. Probably, the SSD isn't the fastest one available on the market. I do have a Samsung 850 pro, but it's only 256GB. But now that I have the GTX980, I really don't want to go to the bootcamp process once more without the bootscreen. And NO WAY I'm taking that card out after taking forever to put it inside.

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

I think that is why I use X5670 CPU's...I cannot imagine my sorrow if I screwed up an expensive CPU trying to delid it! As it was, I practiced delidding on the old 2.26Ghz CPU's that I have acquired over the past year in modding the Mac Pro's. While I could not test that the delidded CPU's worked, it gave me practice popping off that darn heatspreader.

I just cannot justify almost $500USD for a pair of delidded X5690's that are being sold on ebay. This is why I am happy with $30 X5670's.

 

[Nessdufrat]

What about putting non delidded x5690 CPUs inside the 2009 Mac Pro? Some people have tried it (with precautions and a bit of modding, I think, I read that in passing) and it seemed to work.

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

What about putting non delidded x5690 CPUs inside the 2009 Mac Pro? Some people have tried it (with precautions and a bit of modding, I think, I read that in passing) and it seemed to work.

Pick your poison--break a CPU trying to delid it, or over-tighten the heatsinks using non-delidded CPU's and crack your CPU tray. Hmmmm....

 

[carpsafari]

What about putting non delidded x5690 CPUs inside the 2009 Mac Pro? Some people have tried it (with precautions and a bit of modding, I think, I read that in passing) and it seemed to work.

Of course it works well without 'delidding', I think its less risky.
[doublepost=1499444832][/doublepost]

Pick your poison--break a CPU trying to delid it, or over-tighten the heatsinks using non-delidded CPU's and crack your CPU tray. Hmmmm....

Obviously you have no experience with this, so please stop the dumb remarks.

 

[h9826790]

What about putting non delidded x5690 CPUs inside the 2009 Mac Pro? Some people have tried it (with precautions and a bit of modding, I think, I read that in passing) and it seemed to work.

It make sense in the old days, because the 5690 was sooooo expensive. Way more expensive than the 4,1 tray. Therefore, it make more sense to take the risk that may damage the socket then risk to damage the CPU.

However, the 5690 is much cheaper now. At some stage, the price was even lower than the 4,1 tray. Therefore, someone start to take the risk to de-lid the CPU. And once it has been done. The method / details shared on the internet. And some people may actually found that's not as hard / complicated / danger as we believe (depends on that individual's background / experience level etc). It's now up to the user to decide which way he/she want to go.

IMO, I will still prefer to de-lid the CPU. If you can take so much precaution to install the lidded CPU and hopefully not damaging the socket. Why can't study more, and do the process nice and slowly to avoid damaging the CPU during de-lid. Quite a few guys here can do the delid without any issue by only watching few youtube videos. Yes, few guys kill the CPU, but I believe the success rate tell us the process is not that hard, but a non-negligible risk exist (same as installing the lidded CPU, few guys can do it without issue, but some others end up damaged the tray)

Assuming the skill level required, and risk (mainly in terms of financial risk) are roughly the same. And both process required some tools anyway. De-lid has an extra benefit. Once the process is done. That's forever, everything back to factory standard (this is good)

On the other hand, for using lidded CPU, the CPU tray has to be damage a bit forever, otherwise the fan connector can't contact properly (this is not good), and the user has to be very careful every time he/she has to do anything with the tray. At least, even clean the dust, changing RAM, etc, I personally will be a bit worry the "vibration" may damage the socket. The CPU should be secured into position. However, the pressure between CPU and heatsink may be less than normal. I am not sure if that will actually let the CPU move a tiny bit in that position, and can it be a potential problem.

Whenever there is an "official way" to do the process, and the cost / risk is reasonable, I will prefer that. But this is just my personal choice. My opinion, not necessary the fact.

The fact is, you can use normal lidded CPUs in a dual processor 4,1. There are some related posts here, and may be some on youtube as well. As long as you study enough, think twice how to do it properly, and carefully execute the procedures. Everything should be fine.