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Upgrading a 4,1 2009 quadcore 2.93 Mac Pro

I was talking more in terms of rendering times. But I guess it won't make that big of a difference. Anyway, I can live with waiting ten more minutes.

I tried testing the mac today with a bit of action by playing tomb raider (the one that came out a few years ago, don't even know how it's called, I got it four years ago and played it once or twice on my MacBook Pro because it was the only computer powerful enough to get it to run, and the fans were going crazy so I ended up not playing anymore by fear of damaging the computer). Graphics were nice and smooth (I put the quality to "high", I figured, with that graphic card and 32gb ram, I can afford that), and no delay in play or anything, but I thought the computer's fan and graphic card area were quite hot, so I was wondering if that's normal behavior. I was on Windows, so I didn't think to check temperatures (I have temperature monitoring on the mac session, but the Windows part is fresh and there about nothing on it except for tomb raider right now, but I told the guy I bought the graphic card from that I would push it a bit this weekend and give him eBay feedback, hence installing tomb raider first thing).

I guess that's ok, but that's my first Mac Pro, everytime it makes a noise, I'm wondering if it's going to end up frying (especially since I found it in the trash, I can never be sure there wasn't anything wrong with it. The PC I found in the trash had a faulty graphic card, and it wasn't after one hour or so that the problem occurred. Of course, I've spent already days on the Mac Pro so I guess I would have noticed a problem, but that's the first time I was really pushing it).

And thanks for the advice on the processors. It matches what I've read on the forum before (yes, I do read the forum before asking my questions, but sometimes threads aren't recent and of course if the money gap between two processors is $300 to go from 3.33 to 3.46, it's understandable that people wouldn't want to pay that much. But prices have dropped a lot). Thanks a lot for the comparison chart, this helped a lot. Indeed, difference isn't huge, and mostly noticeable with benchmarks. I guess it would be more noticeable in a double CPU situation. But right now, I'm not even there. I could start with the x5680. Who knows what I'll want to do in a year or two or what I'll find in the magic trash bin in the next few months ^^ lol. I was still unsure, that's why I waited so long to order it, even knowing I'll have to wait three more weeks for it to arrive.

And also, I was really surprised that this 2009 desktop computer already had wifi. Way to go, Apple! Totally unexpected. And Bluetooth too.
The desktop PC I assembled yesterday from parts of dead PCs had neither, and it was quite recent (maybe 2013? Yeah, that's recent for me ^^ previous PC was from 2008 and that's the machine I'm working with everyday. Ok, I'm a copy editor and a writer, I'm working mainly with Word, and for everything InDesign related, I switch to the MacBook Pro, but still ^^). Just imagine how frustrating it is for me when I have to go and do computer repair and support on friends and neighbors' computers and their brand new iMacs when I know all they'll be doing with them will be going on the internet and reading their emails. And they bought the latest 27" iMac for that... Sucks to be poor ^^
 
Right now wifi and Bluetooth are fine. I did upgrade the Bluetooth in my MacBook Pro, though.
What about the mac overheating? Is that normal? Or maybe it's not overheating at all, and the heat is just normal?
 
Have you cleaned out the insides when you got your MacPro? I do this once a year with mine including cleaning out the power supply and I don't experience overheating issues...
 
Yes I did. I cleaned everything with a can of compressed air. I ordered the new CPU today so I guess changing it and also the thermal paste which is 9 years old shouldn't hurt. I'll probably receive it end of July.
The power supply isn't hot, it's the area of the graphic card and the fan near the CPU that I find quite hot. But I'm running a very high demanding game in terms of GPU so maybe that's why. Running the same game, my MacBook Pro was on the verge of frying. Still, I'm a bit worried, since it's a card I don't know (second hand, but it hasn't crashed or done any weird thing up to now) and a computer rescued from a trash bin ^^
 
Most likely nothing overheating but you have a noisy graphic card.

The cMP has very good cooling system, not necessary able to stay silent, but really hard to overheat.

Also, the PCIe fan and PSU fan logic is based ok both the GPU temperature and it's power draw. Even the temperature is not high, but a high power draw will also lead to a high fan speed, which create noise. However, that RPM usually still way below the max. Yoi can down load some free fan control software and set the fan speed to max, then you will know how it feel. Just run the fan at max speed to few monitors won't hurt anything. They are rated to do that.
 
No, you didn't misunderstand. I did say my Mac Pro becomes very hot, but the fans aren't turning like crazy, they are running normally. Still, the area where the CPU is and where the GPU is are very hot (hot air is coming out).

I was playing Tomb Raider reboot. I know that game is very GPU intense, because last time I played it, it was on my MacBook Pro and the fans were going like crazy and I stopped it for fear of frying the computer. But even though my MacBook Pro is the late 2011 17" quadri 2.5ghz with s good graphic card, it's no GTX980 and it's a laptop with very poor cooling mechanism.

I didn't expect the Mac Pro to become so hot. Or at least I expected the fans to run faster. Maybe that was the fastest and I'm so used to having a plane reactor right beside me with the MacBook Pro and its stupid fans that I'm not noticing it anymore. Also, I've once bypassed SMC on an iMac and I've heard the full power of a fan (full speed with software isn't the same as no SMC, believe me...), so now nothing is as noisy as that ^^

I could try to find a temperature monitoring on Windows and monitor the temperature for next time I'm trying tomb raider. I'm not into video games at all, but that one is a way for me to test that video card and the computer's general performances until I take the time to install all my 3D stuff. It will be a real pain to migrate all that from the MacBook Pro to the Mac Pro. Why oh why doesn't carbon copy closer work for Windows like it does for mac? :/ like a real carbon copy? Would have been so easy...
 
For mac, I have Temperature Monitor, it's great and displays everything. I have to look for something similar for Windows and check if it works on a Mac Pro. I'll come back with my values, I'll try to get you Fahrenheit, even if it will be like Chinese for me and very frightening to see them displayed like that ^^ (just imagine you're expecting 32° and you see something like 98°, the first time you almost have a heart attack before realizing the program displayed Fahrenheit by default ^^)
I checked the temperatures on the mac session, everything was ok, but I was doing nothing special.
More tomb raider for me, yeah!

Edit : nothing to do with temperature, but am I the only one here who really struggled to put the graphic card in? At one point, I almost gave up. And it wasn't my first time, far from it. It simply wouldn't go inside the slot. And that silly metal bar was blocking the way and almost wouldn't bulge, and since the card was huge I didn't have a lot of space to maneuver. And of course, no visibility at all, and no possibility to do anything from below (like see the slot...). I felt pretty stupid with my great graphic card and no way to put it inside the computer... Took me almost 20 minutes. I was like, one last try, after that it's going inside the PC. So I really hope I NEVERTHELESS have to take it out and replace it with the GT120 for whatever reason.
If I need my bootscreen, I can out the GT120 on top of it and plug the screen in it, right?
 
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Mac fan control is the first thing I install on a MacBook. I have it on the MacBook Pro and on the MacBook Air. Couldn't live without it. I didn't know there was a PC version. That's definitely the one I'll try first, since I'm so happy with the mac version.

And I had to mess with fan control with the MacBook Pro since I had the weird thing where the system would take all the CPU to cool the system down all the time and keep me from doing anything, so I had to do the kext cheat to be able to use my computer, and that required having some kind of fan control software to prevent the computer from overheating.
And I wasn't that satisfied with the way the OS was handling heat on my 11" 2012 MacBook Air so I installed it as well.
 
I don't know how hot on you cMP. But if the fan doesn't spin up much. Most likely it's not that close to overheat.

If you touch the heat sink, of course it is warm (or even a bit hot). Otherwise, it means the heat is trapped in the CPU but unable to transfer to the heatsink / outsider.

There are plenty of monitoring software in Windows, way more than MacOS. And lots of them are free. Anyway, MacsFanControl also has Windows version. You can use that to monitor the temperature.

Install graphic card should be extremely simple in cMP. Did you follow the instruction? It sounds you did something wrong.

I assume you did remove the old GPU, therefore, you should already unlock the PCIe slot by moving the PCIe fan to the left etc.

If the graphic card can't slide in properly for any reason. You may consider disconnect all cables, and let the Mac Pro lie down. In this case, you can install the graphic card from the top, much easier to fine tune the position, and have much better visibility.
 
Also, keep in mind that the cooling was designed to operate with the case sides on. If you're running it with the side off, you might see some exaggerated temps.
 
h9826790 said:
Install graphic card should be extremely simple in cMP. Did you follow the instruction? It sounds you did something wrong.

I assume you did remove the old GPU, therefore, you should already unlock the PCIe slot by moving the PCIe fan to the left etc.

.
Click to expand...

Yes I did. The card is very large, like it takes two slots, and placement wasn't easy because I couldn't see what I was doing, so I had to touch the connectors to see if they were aligned and hope for the best. I guess mostly I wasn't used to not behind able to maneuver from above AND below like with a PC.

So, I'm back with my fan control software. As it turns out, windows isn't taking care of the fans AT ALL. Now the fans are running and the mac pro is finally cooling down (I'm hearing them like for the very first time now).
I took a screenshot before and after tomb raider (which crashed on me, probably not because of the heat or anything, but still). I realized as much as the temperatures had gone up, the fans speed stayed the same.
I've now put in a custom set up with fan speeds based on ambient temperature, but I'm not really sure of what I'm doing. I've done a quick search on google about the fan names, but I still can't figure out why I have power supply 1 and power supply 2 sensors.
Now the fans have been running for a while trying to cool the machine down. Its gone down 1 celsius degree after about five minutes... Thank you very much Windows Seven and Bootcamp for not taking care of the fans...

Also, the three hard drives aren't even in use. They are overheating due to the rest of the machine overheating. I'm only using the SSD right now.


normal.jpg


afterawhile.jpg
 
Nessdufrat said:
Yes I did. The card is very large, like it takes two slots, and placement wasn't easy because I couldn't see what I was doing, so I had to touch the connectors to see if they were aligned and hope for the best. I guess mostly I wasn't used to not behind able to maneuver from above AND below like with a PC.

So, I'm back with my fan control software. As it turns out, windows isn't taking care of the fans AT ALL. Now the fans are running and the mac pro is finally cooling down (I'm hearing them like for the very first time now).
I took a screenshot before and after tomb raider (which crashed on me, probably not because of the heat or anything, but still). I realized as much as the temperatures had gone up, the fans speed stayed the same.
I've now put in a custom set up with fan speeds based on ambient temperature, but I'm not really sure of what I'm doing. I've done a quick search on google about the fan names, but I still can't figure out why I have power supply 1 and power supply 2 sensors.
Now the fans have been running for a while trying to cool the machine down. Its gone down 1 celsius degree after about five minutes... Thank you very much Windows Seven and Bootcamp for not taking care of the fans...

Also, the three hard drives aren't even in use. They are overheating due to the rest of the machine overheating. I'm only using the SSD right now.


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NO, DON'T DO THAT! None of the fan should base on ambient temperate!!! Especially with MacsFanControl, that's DANGER!!!!!

Either leave them at auto, or base on a relevant sensor.

If you want custom fan profile, my recommendation is.

For Intake, Exhaust, BoostA, you can make it base on CPU A Diode temperature. For degree C. Something like minimum 63, max 99 is fine. (Your CPU will not really run at 99C, that's just to calculate the fan profile. 99C means max fan speed, and you don't really need max RPM. The CPU most likely max at around 75C)

For PSU, base on PSMI supply 2, min 35, max 58

For PCIe, base on PCIe ambient, min 35, max 58

This setting should be very good (and safe) for ambient 30C (86F).

PSU 1 is the PSU ambient temperature, PSU 2 is the PSU component temperature. Not because there are two PSUs.

Your HDD not really overheating, they warm up because of the GPU keep releasing hot air inside the cMP (most likely you installed a open fan type graphic card), and your fan profile didn't handle that properly. Therefore, the PCIe fan unable to remove the warm air inside the PCIe compartment, which eventually warm up the HDD.
 
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Ok, I put it on Ambient after checking google, but first I had entered logical sensors like the ones you wrote.
Are you sure about the CPU diode temperature minimum, though? Because for now, I've never seen mine rise above 39°C, which means basically I'm preventing Intake, Exhaust and BoostA from ever running if I set a minimum at 63. Did you mean 36, maybe?

Auto was doing nothing, fans were staying on the minimum setting even though the computer was burning up.
 
Nessdufrat said:
Ok, I put it on Ambient after checking google, but first I had entered logical sensors like the ones you wrote.
Are you sure about the CPU diode temperature minimum, though? Because for now, I've never seen mine rise above 39°C, which means basically I'm preventing Intake, Exhaust and BoostA from ever running if I set a minimum at 63. Did you mean 36, maybe?

Auto was doing nothing, fans were staying on the minimum setting even though the computer was burning up.
Click to expand...

It's 63, not 36.

Auto doing nothing because they don't have to spin up. For auto fan profile (CPU related fan). They won't spin up until CPU diode about 80C, and the temperature will eventually stay at around 85C. That's still within the CPU limit, very close to thermal throttling, but still at normal range.

Unless you love fan noise, there is no need to spin up the fan at 36C, in fact, anything below 80C is fine. Therefore, I suggest a profile that start spin up at around 63C (target is 65C, but gives few degree buffer), and should stay at around 75C max (few degree buffer from 80C).

In your screen capture, CPU diode 133F, which mean 56C, that's higher than 39C already. And that's not during stress, but already cooled down from the max temperature. (also, idle at 109F, which is 43C, also higher than 39C).
 
Ok, thanks!
I'm relieved now because the mac is waaaay cooler than it was last time. I was really getting worried. Now the temperature is what I expected. And I'll start the real work, that is, softwares... I hate that part...
I ended up ordering that USB 3 card from HKG, the $30 one, since the Inatek one was reported to be buggy and the Sonnet one was interesting only in its pro version which costed an arm and a leg, and lets not even mention the Highpoint one that cost more than my GTX980 (ok, I got the GPU for cheap ^^).
End of July, I should have both the new CPU and the USB3, so I can start having fun.
In the meantime, I still have a bunch of useless firewire ports :/ Too bad there's nothing to do with them.
[doublepost=1499793652][/doublepost]Yes, you're right about the CPU diode, I actually checked the celsius values after that, and it was staying around 39, I didn't think to convert back to °F to double-check.
I entered your values, the mac is staying at an ambiant temperature of 34°C and not going down. I'm on the mac session now, doing nothing (except writing this post on Chrome, with the only other software running being the mac fan control) and the CPU diode is at 47. The only fan above the minimum right now is the PS fan, since the power supply 2 temp is at 38 .
Hard drives are still at 42 (the one in use since I've now put my user folder from the mac session in this one), 37 and 39. The drive bays are at 35, 37 and 36 (can't remember which is what, except that the SSD is in bay 0, and at 32, so this one is fine, not that I was worried about it since it's an SSD).
 
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Ok guys, encountered my first "no boot screen problem"... I wanted to install a boot screen program as I was a bit fed up with selecting my drive in advance every time (like I would know the day before whether I would need Windows or mac). But, the one I want to install (and probably every single one) needs SIP to be disabled temporarily to be installed.
BUT, no boot screen = no csrutil disable command possible in the terminal via command R at startup.
So... Am I stuck, or can I still put back my GT120 on top of my GTX980 (I'm not removing the GTX980 after all the troubles putting it in. I can unplug it, though, so that there isn't too much power draw on the system, but then, would it try drawing all the power from the PCIe slot?) and install my program from here, and remove it afterwards? Would the system allow it?
The one I wanted to install was rEFInd.
Thanks.
(also, maybe there's a way to do it from another computer in target mode, no idea, I have access to another mac, and I have a firewire cable, let's put these firewire ports to good use, ahah ^^ If I'm not mistaken (the cable is in a box right now), I even have the right cable : firewire 800 to 400, which would go from my macbook pro to my mac pro.
 
Nessdufrat said:
Ok guys, encountered my first "no boot screen problem"... I wanted to install a boot screen program as I was a bit fed up with selecting my drive in advance every time (like I would know the day before whether I would need Windows or mac). But, the one I want to install (and probably every single one) needs SIP to be disabled temporarily to be installed.
BUT, no boot screen = no csrutil disable command possible in the terminal via command R at startup.
So... Am I stuck, or can I still put back my GT120 on top of my GTX980 (I'm not removing the GTX980 after all the troubles putting it in. I can unplug it, though, so that there isn't too much power draw on the system, but then, would it try drawing all the power from the PCIe slot?) and install my program from here, and remove it afterwards? Would the system allow it?
The one I wanted to install was rEFInd.
Thanks.
(also, maybe there's a way to do it from another computer in target mode, no idea, I have access to another mac, and I have a firewire cable, let's put these firewire ports to good use, ahah ^^ If I'm not mistaken (the cable is in a box right now), I even have the right cable : firewire 800 to 400, which would go from my macbook pro to my mac pro.
Click to expand...

Yes, just put the GT120 back in, connect the monitor to the GT120. And you will able to access recovery partition. Anyway, if you have no plan to leave the GT120 in your cMP. Better not to install rEFInd. Without boot screen, you can't see anything about it. Make it pointless but only trouble during boot.

Also, if I were you, I will seriously consider to keep SIP disbaled. I really don't want to Install / uninstall GPU every time I need to disable (temporarily) SIP. e.g. May be for HDMI Audio, Night Shift hack, or even as simple as change the system hard drive desktop icon.
 
Oh, I thought with rEFInd I would be able to have kind of a replacement bootscreen, that would load instead of the mac bootscreen and would allow me to boot Windows or mac at that point. In that case, you're right, no point at all and I was a bit unsure because from past experiences, I've had only troubles messing with boot sequences :/
But I WILL disable SIP. I have needed to disable it several times on my other macs before and I'd better do it now while I still know where the GT120 is before I lose it somewhere in my mess.
And I heard it was better not to leave it inside the mac because it would slow the system down, otherwise I would leave it inside and plug the cintiq on it or maybe the Cinema Display (my friend is getting it this afternoon, yeah! So happy :) I still don't know when I'm getting it, though, it will all depend on my motivation to do a three hours trip with the car to get it and then back and spend a weekend there, or wait a few weeks till my bestfriend comes see me. Tough call ^^).
Also, it is getting tight inside the mac, now that the GTX980 is taking up all the space available... And it's releasing a lot of heat, not sure whether it's wise to add the GT120 on top of it. Could it put it in one of the first slots?
 
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