Upgrading a 4,1 2009 quadcore 2.93 Mac Pro

[ActionableMango]

If you prefer to leave the CPUs lidded, you can use the washer method to avoid damage to the CPU tray. You will still have to do something about the 2mm gap for the thermal pad and fan connectors.

Personally, I found delidding to be quite easy if you have a vise. If you delid, then everything just fits like stock. However, all of the delidding methods other than the vise method seem dangerous to me and in my opinion have high risk of damaging the CPU.

 

[carpsafari]

Whenever there is an "official way" to do the process, and the cost / risk is reasonable, I will prefer that. But this is just my personal choice. My opinion, not necessary the fact.

True, plus you have little experience with this procedure!
Problem is the 'parotting'....most just follow what others said, and some are even brave enough to repeat that.

For someone who has to do this for the first time, its a lot safer NOT to delidd the CPU's.
There is absolutely no need for it and I'm 100% sure its safer NOT to do it.
Sure when you have a handfull of old cpu's to test, delidding is an option.
If not, use the descriptions on the web, the use of washers/rings (and some extra padding) will prevent that you use to much force.

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

Obviously you have no experience with this, so please stop the dumb remarks.

What's your problem and who put you in charge here? If you don't like what I say, just move on. No need to belittle. It's a public forum AND WHATEVER IT IS you think is dumb, was not meant as such. Have a nice day.

(just read through a bunch of your previous posts and see you are generally down-putting to everyone, so I am not offended...)

 

[Nessdufrat]

Hey, don't kill yourselves over my questions ^^
I actually watched two tutorials on YouTube, one about delidding using razor blades and heat (logical, well done, right before that one I found one with a guy delidding his CPU with an iron (for ironing clothes) and it immediately made me think about that video telling people how to drill a hole in their iPhone to be able to plug in headphones... I'm pretty sure it was serious, but like hell I would ever try to delid a CPU using an iron, put the CPU on a roll of masking tape to maintain it while I'm doing that and expect it to ever work again), and the other one was the vise one. I do own a vise. Both seemed doable. The vise method, although more "scary looking" because everything is happening so quickly, seems safer since there's no need to apply heat to the CPU. I guess I'd be comfortable trying it on my 2.93ghz once I remove it to put the 3.4ghz inside. Who knows, if I find the right tray, I might go ahead and try it. I probably won't go for the one on the other side of Switzerland, it's already over $300 and the auction ends in 20 hours.
So, next thing: ordering the x5690 and putting it inside the Mac Pro. But first, I have a half disassembled PC on the floor and I need to make a decision about that.

Oh, and BTW, what should I do with all these FireWire ports? My one and only FireWire external drive is FireWire 800 and these are FireWire 400, so that's not even the same connection. I did find that My Book by WD, which will add that much needed 1TB space to my 6TB (like how will I ever fill that in a lifetime, I still have 800GB on my 1TB HD on my PC), but other than that, it's more or less useless, no?
And no, I won't be using the My Book for time machine, since I have a time capsule and it's easier for me to just have the computer manage its backups via the Ethernet connection.
I do have a bunch of FireWire to iPhone 4 (probably more like iPhone 2 or 3) cables, but it's not like I can use them for anything else. Even with an adapter, I doubt they'll be much use to charge my iPad or my iPhone. I read about some people trying to charge iPhones with these FireWire cables and killing their devices.
What did you do with yours?

 

[DanSilov]

I actually watched two tutorials on YouTube, one about delidding using razor blades and heat (logical, well done, right before that one I found one with a guy delidding his CPU with an iron (for ironing clothes) and it immediately made me think about that video telling people how to drill a hole in their iPhone to be able to plug in headphones... I'm pretty sure it was serious, but like hell I would ever try to delid a CPU using an iron, put the CPU on a roll of masking tape to maintain it while I'm doing that and expect it to ever work again), and the other one was the vise one. I do own a vise. Both seemed doable. The vise method, although more "scary looking" because everything is happening so quickly, seems safer since there's no need to apply heat to the CPU.

I've delidded 8 CPUs with the hot iron method, and it's quite simple and safe, once you get the hang of it. For this I first ordered a bunch of E5550 for $5 each and trained with them before delidding CPUs for me and my friend. To me personally vice seems scarier, because CPU die is actually soldered to the lid, and if that bond is strong enough, you risk removing the die from the baseplate, and not the lid from the die.

You can always go the washer method without delidding, it works quite well anyway.

What did you do with yours?

Nothing

 

[JedNZ]

I've delidded a couple of CPUs (I did practise ones before I tried my X5680s), and the only time I was scared was the first time, because it's an unnatural amount of pressure you have to apply, and it's a hell of a long wait with every turn until you get an outcome - in my case the outcomes have been positive.

Just remember the solder is quite malleable (soft), so although it takes a bit of pressure it is sideways pressure that must build to the point the solder lets go. In all of my cases there was no audible pop - in fact every time I did it I was pleasantly surprised that the lid had come off in a pathetic, almost unnoticeable way and I then had to pull on the lid to break away the last bonded bit.

In saying all of this I did experience damage - but the damage was done to the (cheap) vice I bought. I stripped the screw on it because it was probably poor quality metal. A good quality metal vice is highly recommended.

Everyone's image may be different, but from my perspective it was a heck of a lot less scary doing the vice method versus the washers and padding method.

 

[Sko]

...
Oh, and BTW, what should I do with all these FireWire ports? My one and only FireWire external drive is FireWire 800 and these are FireWire 400, so that's not even the same connection.

I don't understand, every Mac Pro from 1,1 up to and including 5,1 has FireWire 800?

 

[carpsafari]

For this I first ordered a bunch of E5550 for $5 each and trained with them before delidding CPUs for me and my friend. To me personally vice seems scarier, because CPU die is actually soldered to the lid, and if that bond is strong enough, you risk removing the die from the baseplate, and not the lid from the die.

You can always go the washer method without delidding, it works quite well anyway.

My point exactly!

I've delidded a couple of CPUs (I did practise ones before I tried my X5680s), and the only time I was scared was the first time, because it's an unnatural amount of pressure you have to apply, and it's a hell of a long wait with every turn until you get an outcome - in my case the outcomes have been positive.

Right, as I stated before, someone without the expertise isn't likely to delidd....and when you try, get a handfull of cheap CPU's to try.

Plenty of posts where the cpu was destroyed, so why take the risk...the washer method is 100% safe.

So please continu your monkey see, monkey do routine @dmylrea, I'm not bothered at all.

 

[h9826790]

My point exactly!




Right, as I stated before, someone without the expertise isn't likely to delidd....and when you try, get a handfull of cheap CPU's to try.

Plenty of posts where the cpu was destroyed, so why take the risk...the washer method is 100% safe.

So please continu your monkey see, monkey do routine @dmylrea, I'm not bothered at all.

The washer method is definitely NOT 100% safe. There is no difference than delid the CPU. You have the experience, then it's OK. There are few guys destroyed the CPU tray with washer method. I don't know how can you call it 100% safe. And I don't know how many posts here about destroyed the CPU, but hard to call it "plenty" (especially compare to "ask for help" posts when someone try to install lidded CPU on a dual processor 4,1).

It's just personal choice, either method has their risk. One method may destroy the CPU, the other one may destroy the socket.

Both methods can be carried out without damaging anything (if do it properly). Both methods can also damage something if things go wrong.

It's the users choice to take which risk, or he / she has more confidence on which method.

In fact, it's easy to buy a bunch of cheap CPU to practice delid, but almost no way to "practice" the washer method.

Washer method is just safer for the CPU, but definitely put more risk to the Mac Pro itself. It's not overall safer.

 

[carpsafari]

It's just personal choice, either method has their risk. One method may destroy the CPU, the other one may destroy the socket.

Both methods can be carried out without damaging anything (if do it properly). Both methods can also damage something if things go wrong.

I said before, your knowlegde is therorie, I don't know anybody who ruined a socket with washers, those protect the socket.
The ones who did, failed to use washers, or don't know how to measure.

It is insane to advise a novice to delidd, anybody can use the washer method.

 

[h9826790]

I said before, your knowlegde is therorie, I don't know anybody who ruined a socket with washers, those protect the socket.
The ones who did, failed to use washers, or don't know how to measure.

It is insane to advise a novice to delidd, anybody can use the washer method.

This is one of the member here use washer, very careful, able to measure, able to calculate… but still bent a pin. He mamaged to repair it, but obviously not 100% safe.

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ery-very-careful.1836888/page-2#post-21793379

 

[carpsafari]

Wow, so you prove that a dumb ass is able to overtighten....and you claim that would not be possible when delidding?
That would be really shortsighted.

Pretty good chance he already bent the pin before he even could overtighten, as the socket doesn't clamp in the cpu the way the 2010 model does, but also this could happen to someone who isn't carefull with a delidded cpu.

 

[h9826790]

Wow, so you prove that a dumb ass is able to overtighten....and you claim that would not be possible when delidding?
That would be really shortsighted.

Pretty good chance he already bent the pin before he even could overtighten, as the socket doesn't clamp in the cpu the way the 2010 model does, but also this could happen to someone who isn't carefull with a delidded cpu.

I didn't say that, please don't over interpret my post.

All I want to prove is that washer method is not 100% safe. Any novice could damage the tray during the process.

Delid has its risk, so do the washer method. That's it.

Washer method is not safer, nor 100% safe. You can believe what you believe, I have no intention to make you accept my opinion. However, please stop making your opinion like a fact. They are not.

 

[Nessdufrat]

Ok, the mac with dual CPU went way too high anyway so for now I'm staying with mine. I'll start with upgrading my one and only CPU and see how it goes.
However, I do own a vise. It's a good, solid, metal one, it's 40 years old, I totally trust it, I've been using it for as long as I can remember (I think I starting playing with it when I was six or seven ^^ so that thing is solid). I could try, once my 3.4ghz processor is inside my Mac Pro, to delid the old one. Not right now because I don't have a double CPU tray or anything, but I could put it aside for later. I feel rather comfortable doing crazy stuff, like totally disassembling an iMac 2012 to install a PCIe SSD with no experience whatsoever or changing the Bluetooth card on my MacBook Pro 2011. Most difficult thing until now (because of how tiny it was) was changing the battery on my iPhone 5S and that damn Touch ID button that I had to reconnect afterwards. Changing the hard drive on a Sony vaio p is no walk in the park either. So I'm not one to shy away from a challenge (I'm still a bit uncomfortable with applying thermal paste since I've never done it before, but I'll watch a few videos to see how it goes. Some people say I should spread it everywhere with a credit card or something similar, some other say I should apply it like in two diagonals and put the ventirad back on top of it and let it spread by itself. Not sure which is best).

And about FireWire, the connections aren't the same as the one in my MacBook Pro. My MacBook Pro has FireWire 800. My old MacBook had FireWire 400 and the connection was the same of the one on my Mac Pro. Hence my note about FireWire 400 and 800. My external drive, "my passport studio", is FireWire 800. It doesn't fit inside the Mac Pro ports, the plug isn't the same, it's smaller. I might have a FireWire 800 to FireWire 400 cable somewhere at home, that I bought when I bought my MacBook Pro and I wanted to transfer things from the MacBook. But it doesn't help for the external drive.

 

[carpsafari]

Washer method is not safer, nor 100% safe. You can believe what you believe, I have no intention to make you accept my opinion. However, please stop making your opinion like a fact. They are not.

You talk theorie, in theorie anything is possible, but you have to be quite ignorant to state that delidding is safer...fact is any fool can overtighten, that has nothing to do with delidding.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink!

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

Ok, the mac with dual CPU went way too high anyway so for now I'm staying with mine. I'll start with upgrading my one and only CPU and see how it goes.
However, I do own a vise. It's a good, solid, metal one, it's 40 years old, I totally trust it, I've been using it for as long as I can remember (I think I starting playing with it when I was six or seven ^^ so that thing is solid). I could try, once my 3.4ghz processor is inside my Mac Pro, to delid the old one. Not right now because I don't have a double CPU tray or anything, but I could put it aside for later. I feel rather comfortable doing crazy stuff, like totally disassembling an iMac 2012 to install a PCIe SSD with no experience whatsoever or changing the Bluetooth card on my MacBook Pro 2011. Most difficult thing until now (because of how tiny it was) was changing the battery on my iPhone 5S and that damn Touch ID button that I had to reconnect afterwards. Changing the hard drive on a Sony vaio p is no walk in the park either. So I'm not one to shy away from a challenge (I'm still a bit uncomfortable with applying thermal paste since I've never done it before, but I'll watch a few videos to see how it goes. Some people say I should spread it everywhere with a credit card or something similar, some other say I should apply it like in two diagonals and put the ventirad back on top of it and let it spread by itself. Not sure which is best).

I went with the razor blade and heat (torch) method. It's nice when the heatspreader POPS right off, but then I have to wonder if too much heat is applied to it and that what kills the CPU. It seems to take quite a bit of heat (central to the die) to pop it off. Practice makes perfect. I just received another X5670 to replace the one I fried de-lidding it, but am on vacation now and will attempt when I get back. Wish me luck!

Regarding thermal paste...it's like religion or politics...everyone has an opinion...there are a few correct ways, and I prefer the spread method (with a razor blade to make it nice and smooth). Been doing it that way for 10 years and my temps are just fine. This way I KNOW the die is covered. Others have their way and I'm sure it works for them. A degree or two difference isn't worth debating.

Whatever you do, keep having fun!

 

[h9826790]

You talk theorie, in theorie anything is possible, but you have to be quite ignorant to state that delidding is safer...fact is any fool can overtighten, that has nothing to do with delidding.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink!

I gave you are real case, not theory. You are the guy who talking your theory or experience and encourages the other guys using washer method and incorrectly stated that's 100% safe. As you said, you can lead a horse but can't make it drinks. No matter what you said, a novice can damage a tray with washer (same as delid can kill a CPU). You can make the others using washer, but won't make the whole process 100% safe.

I keep saying both methods has their own risk. And the user should study through and pick their own method. I also clearly stated that delid method is just my personally choice. I never ever say delid is safe. Or anyone using washer but not delid is stupid etc.

 

[Macdctr]

Edit : BTW, bought the Cinema Display. Got it for $160, it was a bargain. If I don't like it, the going price for that screen in my country is around $350 easy so I could always sell it away. I'm not getting it now, probably end of July, my friend needs to bring it to me, the screen is in Paris right now (so is the friend), and he's coming back on the 20th to Lyon, so either I'm super impatient and I go to Lyon to pick it up, either I wait till my bestfriend (not the same friend but they know each other) come see me end of July / beginning of August). I might be impatient ^^ (also, there are some super cool thrift stores in Lyon and I'm a clothes addict...)

Congrats on getting your Cinema Display. I know there will be others out there who will say that there are better 30 inch displays out there but for the money you got yours for, I'm sure you will be pleased with your display. I have a Cinema 30 inch connected to my MacPro with a GTX980 GPU and am happy with the output. For the money I got mine, I won't be in any hurry to replace it

 

[JedNZ]

I hear you Capsafari.
I hear you h9826790.

And I get your well intentioned messages around the choices and their dangers. Just because I have a 100% success rate using the delidding method, I don't portend delidding will be 100% successful for others. I have no experience with the washers method - it simply seemed too much could go wrong, hence I went down the delidding road. I can't qualify that decision any more than that, and I accept others will reach a different choice. But !DANG! I love my 12 core X5680s cMP. Such a stupendously grunty POS with all it's upgrades. Or in the words of my wife "Well that was a waste of time and money, seeing you don't doing anything on it!"

Peace to all my friends here who are sharing their knowledge to help others, not to score points, burn, mock or ridicule others. We're a wonderful community of antique Macophile tinkerers aren't we?!

 

[Nessdufrat]

So, time to get the CPU. There's a 40€ difference between the x5680 and the x5690. The x5680 is 3.33ghz, the x5690 is 3.4ghz. Is the 40€ worth it? Does it really makes such a great difference in speed? I'll be running 3DS Max on Windows. Probably using the GPU if I can. If it doesn't make a difference, I'll go with the cheaper CPU (not because I'm THAT cheap, but because I've read that it doesn't really change anything). Can somebody confirm that info or is that totally wrong?
I have the 40€, it's not a problem.
In fact, I'm actually richer this morning since my dad came to visit yesterday for an early birthday dinner and gave me money ^^

 

[kschendel]

The difference is pretty much the clock rate as far as I know, so it would be a few percentage points. It wasn't worth it to me, I went with 3.33 Ghz. If you run long compute jobs then it might be worth the money. You'll never notice it interactively.

 

[Macdctr]

The difference is pretty much the clock rate as far as I know, so it would be a few percentage points. It wasn't worth it to me, I went with 3.33 Ghz. If you run long compute jobs then it might be worth the money. You'll never notice it interactively.

I have to agree with this. Unless you're looking for the fastest processor you can possibly put into your computer... I went with the x5680 as well.

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

So, time to get the CPU. There's a 40€ difference between the x5680 and the x5690. The x5680 is 3.33ghz, the x5690 is 3.4ghz. Is the 40€ worth it? Does it really makes such a great difference in speed? I'll be running 3DS Max on Windows. Probably using the GPU if I can. If it doesn't make a difference, I'll go with the cheaper CPU (not because I'm THAT cheap, but because I've read that it doesn't really change anything). Can somebody confirm that info or is that totally wrong?
I have the 40€, it's not a problem.
In fact, I'm actually richer this morning since my dad came to visit yesterday for an early birthday dinner and gave me money ^^

The old rule of thumb is there needs to be more than 10% clock speed difference to begin to actually notice the speed increase (not benchmarks, but noticable difference). 3.33 vs 3.46 is something like 3% (roughly). For the cost difference, save the money, and get the X5680. Almost everyone here says it's the sweet spot, especially if you can find a really good deal.

My first one (in my signature) is X5690 but only because I wanted the best. The other two I have done are X5670 because I know my m.2 Samsung AHCI SSD is where I will SEE and FEEL real performance gain, so I put my money there and not in the CPU's. 2.93 vs 3.33 is about 10% so I am happy with X5670 (plus, I can get TWO X5670's for the price of ONE X5680!).

(just looked on ebay and 5670's are selling for $25 right now! WOW!)

 

[flowrider]

So, time to get the CPU. There's a 40€ difference between the x5680 and the x5690. The x5680 is 3.33ghz, the x5690 is 3.4ghz. Is the 40€ worth it?

This may help your decision:

http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Xeon-X5690-vs-Intel-Xeon-X5680

Note: this question has been discussed many many times on this forum. Do a search and you'll find what other members think.

Lou

 

[h9826790]

So, time to get the CPU. There's a 40€ difference between the x5680 and the x5690. The x5680 is 3.33ghz, the x5690 is 3.4ghz. Is the 40€ worth it? Does it really makes such a great difference in speed? I'll be running 3DS Max on Windows. Probably using the GPU if I can. If it doesn't make a difference, I'll go with the cheaper CPU (not because I'm THAT cheap, but because I've read that it doesn't really change anything). Can somebody confirm that info or is that totally wrong?
I have the 40€, it's not a problem.
In fact, I'm actually richer this morning since my dad came to visit yesterday for an early birthday dinner and gave me money ^^

It very depends. However, by considering you are a bit late to join the cMP party. I assume you do not require extreme speed (otherwise you leave the Mac long time ago). And I assume you don't need that tiny bit speed to meet any project deadline.

So, 3.46 vs 3.33 may be more to make yourself happy, rather than you can actually feel any difference. For me, if €40 buy myself happiness, why not? however, if your value is base on real world performance difference. My recommendation is go for the X5680. I doubt if you can tell the difference without any help from benchmarking software.