Other USB-C iPhone: The Ugly Truth

[usagora]

And aPPLe Is a bUSiNeSs doesn't even warrant a response.

Why not? It sure seems many here seem to forget that, and insist Apple has a duty to give them exactly what they want at the price they (the customer) name. At the end of the day, they are a business and will do what is most profitable for the company.

 

[EdT]

Expect at least usb2.0 speed for the iphone 15 and maybe, hopefully usb3 speed for the iphone 15 pro
at this point airdrop is much better and the future is inductive/magsafe charging
And thats IF apple goes usbC since they dont have to...they have 3 choices under the EU laws- bring usbC connector, bring the port-less iphone or bring a better starndard connector that can be the size of the current lightning

From what I understand this standard connector must be what every phone maker uses. If a company sets off on their own and makes a physically proprietary cable it won’t be approved for sale in Europe unless everyone can and does offer it. For good or ill this slows down obsolescence of components and means that you can buy anyones cable and know that it will work with your phone/tablet. I don’t know that data xmit speeds are mandated but it would be a good reason not to buy someone’s cable if it is notably slower than most. And usually formats include a minimum speed at least.

 

[compwiz1202]

I don’t think this is true. USB-C works just fine with Carplay. I actually use USB-C with Carplay, crazy right? But I have a wireless Carplay adapter, it has a USB-C on it, it literally has no problem being used with Carplay. As far as I know, it‘s all just USB protocol underneath, and any cable that supports USB 2.0 is good enough for Carplay or Android Auto. The issue with cables could be things like interference, no shielding, no grounding, bad wiring, broken wiring, or with Lightning if it’s not certified it might not work with the iPhone properly because it’s not up to Apple’s spec.

In addition, most systems adapt to Android Auto with USB-C just fine.

USB-C cables, on the other hand, just work across many different devices. The main issue is when they’re not wired according to spec. That could be a problem, Benson Leung blogged years ago about cables not being wired correctly. But if you buy cables from reputable stores it’s not an issue any more, the issue was when you bought a cable from Amazon and like 90% of them weren’t wired to spec. That isn‘t the case any more, Amazon cracked down on the bad cables.

You could see Apple just have a support doc that says “buy this cable from our store” (they sell them already) to use Carplay with USB-C properly, or just find it from your local reputable store. Really shouldn’t be more of an issue then, say replacing a 30 pin cable with USB-A on the other end with a Lightning cable with USB-A. Which we went through 10 years ago.

Also if there is a USB-C iPhone, it’s for the whole world. Has there ever been an Apple product with a different port for one market? I can’t think of any. Only one that’s close I guess is the iPhone 14 having no SIM in the US. But by that analogy they would have an iPhone with no port whatsoever and just Magsafe charging. That would be far worse for Carplay because you would need to use an adapter, quite like mine, to convert to wireless Carplay, but not every car plays well with wireless Carplay adapters.

I think my Android Auto works better than CarPlay. I would get black screens with CP and it wouldn't even connect period sometimes. I mean other than the actual interface, there are pluses and minus for GM vs AM, and the one thing I don't like with AA with GM is it won't let you open Maps on the phone for a passenger to see the directions like on AM and CP. I wonder if that is a GM thing or AA. I'll have to try another maps on the way home.

 

[compwiz1202]

Eventually? USB 3.0 has been around for over a decade. And aPPLe Is a bUSiNeSs doesn't even warrant a response.

Yes I'm getting so sick of this answer. Of course you want to make a profit, but that doesn't mean you have to be ultra greedy and gouge the crap out of customers without anything in return. But I also blame that keep coughing up the $$$

 

[chaospet]

Faster charging speeds, transfer speeds, etc would be nice. Will Apple include these things with a USB-C upgrade? No clue. Regardless, I'll just be happy not to have to deal with lightning cables anymore.

 

[EdT]

I think it’s more about their services. They know the iPhone is the most popular product, they know the iPhone is probably the product that’s getting connected to other devices the least, they can put a slower transfer speed in it and force you to use iCloud and airdrop.
Same reason the iPhone doesn’t have a headphone jack while the Mac still does, they know iPhone users are a lot more likely to just want to use wireless.
Or why the Apple Watch can’t operate independently from an iPhone.

Apple, Google and Dropbox are all talking about or actually implementing data caps where you need to pay more for storage. I am setting up a NAS so I can use my own server to store data, mostly (but not exclusively) photos. At that point I can use high speed upload/ download connections and not pay Apple/Google/phone company for storage.

Not rocket science but not plug and play either. And if you are in a bad cell phone area and the speeds are low or if you are at a hotel or ship and they charge you to connect to high speed internet you either wait until you can access a high speed Cell tower or WiFi or you get home.

 

[svenmany]

Don’t you own iPad, or Macbooks? You and most people already had some USB-C cables laying around, along with USB-C bricks. Why buy another cables?

The worst thing to happen is you had to ditch the old Lightning cables, or just store it someplace safe just in case you ever need one.

I don't have any extra usb-c cables. All the ones I have are in use. I have about 6 lightning cables around the house where I plug in my phone.

Don't get me wrong. I think the move to a standard connector is the right move. The argument that everyone has cables lying around is not valid. The argument that most people have cables lying around is presumptuous.

This is the same argument given to justify Apple dropping supplying the power brick. Again, that was the right move, but that particular argument was not valid. Many people offered themselves up as counterexamples.

 

[UKgaryb]

I thought USB-C was a fail as soon as it was released. The connector falls out too easily.

Fun fact! Even your all mighty Apple went all USB-C on their laptops and all the iPads use USB-C now, where are the reports of the connectors falling out??? Stop the false panic. USB-C is on every other phone and it's great! universal charging is the dream.

 

[EdT]

Eventually? USB 3.0 has been around for over a decade. And aPPLe Is a bUSiNeSs doesn't even warrant a response.


The longer Apple keeps up selling devices with lightning, the more of these cables will be around that have no use whatsoever outside the Apple universe. It's a dead end, the sooner Apple buries lightning the better.

I think that the Lightning standard is still faster than USB-C, as implemented by most phone makers. And (I could very well be wrong) that Lightning has always been faster or equivalent to the best USB formats.

The trouble here was nobody wanted to buy into Apple’s proprietary connection and format. They didn’t want to be dependent on Apple and Apple’s production capacity for a component that for a long time was absolutely necessary and still is very important.

Also going off of old memories here but wasn’t Apple part of the consortium that helped determine the technical standards for USB-C?

Not sure about Apple’s involvement with USB-C.

 

[davedvdy]

I think that the Lightning standard is still faster than USB-C, as implemented by most phone makers. And (I could very well be wrong) that Lightning has always been faster or equivalent to the best USB formats.

The trouble here was nobody wanted to buy into Apple’s proprietary connection and format. They didn’t want to be dependent on Apple and Apple’s production capacity for a component that for a long time was absolutely necessary and still is very important.

Also going off of old memories here but wasn’t Apple part of the consortium that helped determine the technical standards for USB-C?

Not sure about Apple’s involvement with USB-C.

Lightning implemented in the iPhone uses USB 2.0 transfer speeds, this in contrast to USB 3.2 or above.

Here's some information in to give an example in context:

"A five-minute 4K ProRes video clip at 6GB per minute will be roughly 30GB. At that rate, it could take you 8 minutes to transfer that much data over a Lightning cable. If you are using the Photos or iMovie database to store them, the indexing could take significantly longer."


How fast is USB 3.2? The theoretical upper limit for Generation 1 is 4.8Gbps or 600 megabytes per second (MB/s). USB 3.2 Gen 2 is 10Gbps, and USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 is 20Gbps. And USB 4/Thunderbolt 3? 40Gbps or 5000 megabytes per second, an over 80 times increase over USB 2.0 transfer rates.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/iphon...sor-same-slow-lightning-cable-data-transfers/

 

[davedvdy]

Why not? It sure seems many here seem to forget that, and insist Apple has a duty to give them exactly what they want at the price they (the customer) name. At the end of the day, they are a business and will do what is most profitable for the company.

It hasn't been forgotten by me personally, but isn't there some level of balance? I think it's all subjective but it's a matter of ethics. As I used McDonald's as an example, they churn out the lowest quality fast food but sell the most of it. "They're buying it", but that's because they aren't being held to a higher standard?

***Also, please don't get me wrong, I love the 14 Pro/Pro Max and don't find them low quality overall. It's an awesome smartphone, but there are certain ways I would like to see an improvement.

Requests vs. Demands too. I don't believe any Company should be strong armed into doing anything, so agree with your earlier post there (eg. EU ruling or the Brazil charger case). I think it's reasonable to be required to change if there was an actual hazard and safety issue with the lightning port in general, but that isn't the case.

 

[usagora]

It hasn't been forgotten by me personally, but isn't there some level of balance? I think it's all subjective but it's a matter of ethics. As I used McDonald's as an example, they churn out the lowest quality fast food but sell the most of it. "They're buying it", but that's because they aren't being held to a higher standard?

Being held to a higher standard by whom? As long as the food is safe to consume and people are happy with it and are buying it, then why should McDonald's (sticking with your example) change anything? And what does ethics have to do with this? What ethical principle is at play here?

Requests vs. Demands too. I don't believe any Company should be strong armed into doing anything, so agree with your earlier post there (eg. EU ruling or the Brazil charger case). I think it's reasonable to be required to change if there was an actual hazard and safety issue with the lightning port in general, but that isn't the case.

Glad we agree on that. I wish everyone did. As I've mentioned before, I couldn't care less what port Apple uses or whether they allow side-loading or alternate app stores. I just think it should be their decision and theirs alone. But it seems many on this forum approve of government overreach as long as it gives them something they want. Just wait until it's something they don't, though. They'll change their tune very quickly.

 

[okkibs]

I thought USB-C was a fail as soon as it was released. The connector falls out too easily.

I agree in that the USB-C plug is surely not the best possible design, it's crazy how the plug, and the port, are actually both a plug and a port (the port on the device end has a plug sticking out). The lightning plug clicks into place satisfyingly and doesn't wear out like USB-C. Especially the early USB-C-only MBP generations suffer from loose ports that eventually stop working - I got one of these 2016 models where one port is so loose it won't charge unless you hold the cable in yourself and after many thousands of cycles over 5+ years the last remaining port is now on its way out as well.

But Apple decided to profit off the lightning accessoires sales and did nothing to further the spread of lightning in none-Apple products. Of course nobody will use a proprietary connector when Apple collects royalties for every sold unit!

We live in a reality where USB-C is the standard and lightning is on its way out, that ship has sailed. Unfortunately, as I would have liked to see if USB-C could have been improved by incorporating the tech from lightning. But there is no point in keeping the dead lightning alive, it just leads to more devices and cables sold with obsolete technology.

[...] getting any cable for any device can be a challenge if I forget to bring the cable or it gets lost or damaged. I would not like a port-less phone or iPad as MagSafe chargers are not everywhere. [...]

Yes, it's obnoxious how people say they have their wireless charging and their dozens of cables at home. That's great but we are talking about a device you might want to take with you when travelling. When I travelled in the East of Europe (Black Sea) I did not even see anyone using Apple products, good luck finding a replacement cable in countries where Apple doesn't even sell their products directly. If you live in a big city you'll have one or maybe two Apple resellers that may or may not stock this and that accessoire, and that's it. There are no Apple Stores anywhere. Forget purchasing online from their website, they don't ship there and instead show you a map with Apple reseller locations.

 

[svenmany]

Requests vs. Demands too. I don't believe any Company should be strong armed into doing anything, so agree with your earlier post there (eg. EU ruling or the Brazil charger case). I think it's reasonable to be required to change if there was an actual hazard and safety issue with the lightning port in general, but that isn't the case.

Your level of balance here is quite different than mine. We are unable to panic in the face of existential hazards that are decades away. Capitalism, while it has many advantages, has been proven to be poor stewards of our planet, species, and general welfare. I'd prefer companies to be strong armed quite a bit more than you.

 

[janeauburn]

Fun fact! Even your all mighty Apple went all USB-C on their laptops and all the iPads use USB-C now, where are the reports of the connectors falling out??? Stop the false panic. USB-C is on every other phone and it's great! universal charging is the dream.

You didn't address my complaint, which is simply stated: USB-C is a fail because the connector falls out too easily. That's the first thing I noticed about it, and my original observation has been borne out by plenty of experience by this point.

I was in the tech industry with a lot of bobble-head zombies, so I know how cubicle-dwelling paycheck collectors will just say yes so that they can get back to their workstations and surf the internet, but for the life of me I can't figure out how this dumb USB-C design ever made it off of the white board.

 

[davedvdy]

Being held to a higher standard by whom? As long as the food is safe to consume and people are happy with it and are buying it, then why should McDonald's (sticking with your example) change anything? And what does ethics have to do with this? What ethical principle is at play here?

That's why it's subjective and not factually based: 'it's subjective, but it's a matter of ethics'. It's still a matter of opinion. The ethics of profit over an improved quality standard. Very much a grey area (alhough as for the McDonald's example...why? it doesn't have to change because no one is holding them accountable. Whether it's safe to consume has already been actually argued that it isn't. There are articles and documentaries on that alone -- another reason why I see regulatory as misleading in some ways).

Your level of balance here is quite different than mine. We are unable to panic in the face of existential hazards that are decades away. Capitalism, while it has many advantages, has been proven to be poor stewards of our planet, species, and general welfare. I'd prefer companies to be strong armed quite a bit more than you.

When more control is granted, then you are leaving all the trade offs that go along with it. I'm not sure where the level of regulation starts and ends. I could be making a slippery slope/logical fallacy claim with my thinking here without understanding more.

 

[svenmany]

You didn't address my complaint, which is simply stated: USB-C is a fail because the connector falls out too easily. That's the first thing I noticed about it, and my original observation has been borne out by plenty of experience by this point.

I was in the tech industry with a lot of bobble-head zombies, so I know how cubicle-dwelling paycheck collectors will just say yes so that they can get back to their workstations and surf the internet, but for the life of me I can't figure out how this dumb USB-C design ever made it off of the white board.

I haven't ever had my usb-c connectors fall out.

You didn't answer the question "where are the reports of the connectors falling out???"

 

[compwiz1202]

Your level of balance here is quite different than mine. We are unable to panic in the face of existential hazards that are decades away. Capitalism, while it has many advantages, has been proven to be poor stewards of our planet, species, and general welfare. I'd prefer companies to be strong armed quite a bit more than you.

Agree unchecked Capitalism is bad. And it could be nice if they were being strongarmed on things other than a charger or port type. And not really for companies selling wants. Do something about the companies that control grocery prices

 

[okkibs]

"where are the reports of the connectors falling out???"

🔎 macbook pro 2016 usb charge cable loose - Google Search

www.google.com

And here is a video demonstration, first showing how it is supposed to be and then showing a Macbook with a defective port:

Maybe you could spend half a second researching your own argument???

Even though I am all for a swift death of lightning, there is no denying USB-C has issues. Lightning seems to have the better design, in my opinion, but with Apple charging royalties for every single devices with lightning sold, Apple sent its own good lightning tech to the grave knowingly so they can make more money with accessoires.

 

[usagora]

That's why it's subjective and not factually based: 'it's subjective, but it's a matter of ethics'. It's still a matter of opinion. The ethics of profit over an improved quality standard. Very much a grey area (alhough as for the McDonald's example...why? it doesn't have to change because no one is holding them accountable. Whether it's safe to consume has already been actually argued that it isn't. There are articles and documentaries on that alone -- another reason why I see regulatory as misleading in some ways).

Obviously I'm talking about safe to consume in terms of you're not going to become sick or die after eating at McDonald's. In terms of long-term health (what you seem to be referring to), that's up to consumers to make smart choices with both diet and exercise.

With improved quality comes increased prices. I'm glad consumers have more inexpensive choices. I don't think anyone goes into McDonald's expecting fine dining. They know what it is and are happy with it. If you're implying some government agency should be holding fast food restaurants accountable for anything other than food safety, then I totally disagree with that idea. If instead you mean McDonald's corporate should be doing so or some independent organization whom they hire, then ok, but I still fail to see the ethical issue. As long as they're not misrepresenting their food on a factual level, then I don't see an issue. Profit over quality isn't an ethical issue imo. The market will decide whether they like the quality or not by voting with their wallets.

 

[cupcakes2000]

Being held to a higher standard by whom? As long as the food is safe to consume and people are happy with it and are buying it, then why should McDonald's (sticking with your example) change anything? And what does ethics have to do with this? What ethical principle is at play here?



Glad we agree on that. I wish everyone did. As I've mentioned before, I couldn't care less what port Apple uses or whether they allow side-loading or alternate app stores. I just think it should be their decision and theirs alone. But it seems many on this forum approve of government overreach as long as it gives them something they want. Just wait until it's something they don't, though. They'll change their tune very quickly.

I definitely don’t agree with governments mandating this type of thing, per se - but in this particular case (standardising charging ports) it’s a good thing.

I


Yes, it's obnoxious how people say they have their wireless charging and their dozens of cables at home. That's great but we are talking about a device you might want to take with you when travelling. When I travelled in the East of Europe (Black Sea) I did not even see anyone using Apple products, good luck finding a replacement cable in countries where Apple doesn't even sell their products directly. If you live in a big city you'll have one or maybe two Apple resellers that may or may not stock this and that accessoire, and that's it. There are no Apple Stores anywhere. Forget purchasing online from their website, they don't ship there and instead show you a map with Apple reseller locations.

You can buy lighting cables everywhere in Europe. I live here and have travelled extensively- it’s really not hard to find lightning cables. They’re even in supermarkets. iPhones may not be as common as in the US in some European countries, but they’re not a rarity.

 

[usagora]

I definitely don’t agree with governments mandating this type of thing, per se - but in this particular case (standardising charging ports) it’s a good thing.

A standardized charging port may be a good thing (as I mentioned, I couldn't care less, but obviously others feel strongly about it), but forcing it by government overreach (imo) is not a good thing. That's my point, and I'm consistent in it. I'm against this kind of control even if what they're forcing a company to do is desirable to me.

 

[JustinKent]

I prefer the Lightning connector to USB-C... it just feels more physically reliable to me, both the male and female side. I don't like the little tongue in the middle of the USB-C receptacle, it seems delicate. But I have it on every Mac and iPad without issue, so I guess it's more psychological than anything.

 

[svenmany]

🔎 macbook pro 2016 usb charge cable loose - Google Search

www.google.com

And here is a video demonstration, first showing how it is supposed to be and then showing a Macbook with a defective port:

Maybe you could spend half a second researching your own argument???

Even though I am all for a swift death of lightning, there is no denying USB-C has issues. Lightning seems to have the better design, in my opinion, but with Apple charging royalties for every single devices with lightning sold, Apple sent its own good lightning tech to the grave knowingly so they can make more money with accessoires.

I made no argument. I simply asked you to answer the question. (I guess it wasn't you, it wasn't someone else who didn't bother answering when asked.)

I struggle to pull out my connectors. I guess defects can happen.

 

[ian87w]

I know everyone is riding on a high because top level Apple executives confirm that they have to comply with the new European law and switch the iPhone over to USB-C within the next two years, most likely in next year's iPhone 15 series.
But I’ve seen a lot of people make some assumptions about this change that I don't think are going to be quite accurate, and I think a lot of people are going to be in for a rude awakening when it happens.
SPEED
Let’s start by busting a myth, Lightning is not restricted to USB 2.0 speeds.
The iPhone is restricted to USB 2.0 speeds, Lightning is not.
The iPad Pro from 2017 had a Lightning port on it, and that Lightning port supported USB 3.0 speeds.
If Apple wanted the iPhone to have faster transfer speeds, they could’ve done it.
They could’ve done it in 2017 alongside the iPad, but they didn’t.
They could’ve did it when they introduced Pro-res and Raw support, but they didn’t.
They could’ve done it when they introduced 1TB iPhones, but they didn’t.
They could’ve done it when they introduced a 48 Megapixel camera, but they didn’t.

It’s not a restriction of the port, it’s a deliberate choice on Apple’s part to keep the iPhone at USB 2.0 transfer speeds.
In fact, this was proven just this week.
Apple introduced the tenth generation iPad.
It has a USB-C port.

And Wouldn’t you know it…
https://www.macrumors.com/2022/10/27/ipad-10-slower-usb-c-port/
That’s right, USB-C, but 2.0 transfer speeds.
And I absolutely expect the iPhone 15 to follow the trend.
Maybe, MAYBE the iPhone 15Pro and Pro Max, or just the Pro Max get slightly faster speeds.
But if you are expecting to get a new iPhone next year that goes from 2.0 speeds up to whatever the latest thunderbolt protocol is, I don't think that's going to happen.
Apple, for whatever dumb reason they have, thinks the transfer speed of the iPhone doesn’t need to go past 2.0.
I don’t agree, but I’m also not stupid.
I don’t think a forced port switch will change their minds.
Which brings us to another aspect…


CHARGING SPEEDS
The iPhone has slowly increased its charging speed, from 18W, to 20W, most recently to 27W.
I fully expect that to continue.
Anyone expecting the change to USB-C will force Apple to allow 35W, 45W, 60W+ charging I think will be very mistaken.
I fully expect them to keep the fast charging speed at 27W, or if there is an increase it will be very small.


COMPATIBILITY

Apple has this pop-up in iOS, it sounds a little something like this:

“This accessory cannot be verified.”

There’s more to it but you get the point.

I fully expect this pop-up to quickly become very common when people pick up their new iPhones, stick some $1.50 USB-C cable that came with some random gadget into their iPhone and it doesn’t like it.

I fully expect Apple to do everything in their power to make sure you are using their USB-C cables, and only their USB-C cables.


BACKWARDS COMPATIBILITY WITH LIGHTNING PRODUCTS

I’ve already seen people predicting that Apple will ship a Lightning (male) to USB-C (female) adapter in the box of the iPhone 15.

THEY ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT!

They’ll be more than happy to sell you one for $10-20, but include one?

They didn’t do it when 30 pin became Lightning, they didn’t do it when the MacBooks switched from MagSafe 2 to USB-C, they didn’t do it with any of the iPads, they absolutely will not do it with the iPhone.

I wouldn’t even be surprised if by 2025 they just… don’t ship a cable at all.

The new Apple Siri Remote has USB-C, and guess what?

It does not come with a cable.


Other than all that, yeah it’s going to be a lot of fun. Can’t wait for the next three+ years of confusion.


Disclaimer

Although I disagree with governments getting involved in things like this, I do think Apple switching to USB-C on all of their devices is the right thing to do and will benefit everyone in the long run. I’ve just seen people runaway with theories about how great it will be, and wanted to give my perspective as a skeptic.

Yup, this is what I've been saying, and people here on MR still blindly demand USB-C. USB-C doesn't guarantee faster transfer speed. Majority on Android are also on USB2.0 speed. Seems like most just don't know what they're asking for, or have little knowledge about tech.