Videographer turning photographer for wedding..

[salacious]

Just a question, how many final photos do you deliver? iv heard 2-300 is the norm? so you select a few that you think is mantelpiece worthy or let the couple see it?

also if you think you have the best moments do you prefer to keep them in colour or go with black and white?

the photographer I spoke to also suggested any pics that arent great should be made B&W do you agree?

what about the brides dress? B&w or colour?

 

[Cheese&Apple]

the photographer I spoke to also suggested any pics that arent great should be made B&W do you agree?

I don't agree. Any pics that aren't great should be deleted. B&W is a style, a mood, a feeling. B&W is not a means to rescue a bad shot.

 

[Hughmac]

I did a photo shoot of a local band performing recently, and those pics that I decided were worthy of passing on to the band I did in both colour and B&W (processed differently) so they could choose.
Some looked better in B&W, some looked better in colour, but in the end it's the customer's choice which they prefer and use.

Cheers

Hugh

 

[sarge]

Glad to hear it all worked out - shooting at a high ISO probably helped with battery consumption and kept the flash duration short, if you even used it all that much.

Personally I don't think shooting a wedding is all that hard because, let's face it, the event is so coordinated that rarely is it going to deviate very far from script. The photographers creativity is bound by the convention of the ceremony and shooting within such a confine is akin to working with a safety net. Personal expression should more or less be subservient to the couples taste/expectation. Such a limit can actually be freeing and a heck of a lot less stressful - you're not being asked to be an art director after all.

Unlike the the film era, the digital photographer can assess how the shoot is going in real time, so again, if adjustments need to be made they can be, easy peasy. Heck, with ETTL even the ring bearer could take a few shots while you hit the open bar for a shot or two of your own. As I said though, my main concern would be running out of batteries or cards - or having shot to one card and having it get corrupted. Someone else said it before I believe - the difference between a pro and an amateur is what do you do when something goes wrong - and if you do it long enough something will. THAT is why if you're getting $$ you don't show up with one body and one lens and one battery. Food for thought for next time Salacious!

 

[Apple fanboy]

Just a question, how many final photos do you deliver? iv heard 2-300 is the norm? so you select a few that you think is mantelpiece worthy or let the couple see it?

also if you think you have the best moments do you prefer to keep them in colour or go with black and white?

the photographer I spoke to also suggested any pics that arent great should be made B&W do you agree?

what about the brides dress? B&w or colour?

I'd say choose the right processing for each shot. B&W can help to improve a shot if there is a distracting background etc., but as C&A says if the shot is no good, it's no good.
Better to show 50 good pics than 300 ok pics IMO.
If also say that taking a good photo is 50-75% what's needed to make a good picture. The rest is in how you edit it.
Things to look out for are make sure the bride looks good in every photo she is in, as it is afterall her big day. Watch for things like her white dress. If it looks grey/green/blue in different lighting conditions, you will need to adjust your White balance in post.
Now let us have a sneak peak!

 

[Padaung]

B&W can rescue a good shot with a difficult colour balance (or mixed lighting where the colours do not work well together).
in some scenarios B&W can also rescue a good shot (framing and expression) which has questionable exposure quality.
I'm not saying B&W should be relied upon as a rescue tool, but it can be used as one at times.

Converting every photo into B&W and colour versions seems like overkill to me.

Lets not forget B&W can also be used creatively and can make a great colour shot look absolutely fabulous

 

[acearchie]

Agreed. I'm not condoning it. But, what's your metric? What number of shots equates to "spraying & praying"? The OP shot for 15 hours. (Ouch!) 3,000 shots. It averages out to 200 images an hour. Sorry, I don't personally think that qualifies as spray and pray.

I don't disagree with the idea but this calc is wrong. Weddings can be broken down into a set of activities with a lot of slower bits in the middle.

It's probably more likely that from the 15 hour day there were 4 hours of intensive shooting making the ratio much more inline with the spray and pray category! Unless of course he took 200 shots on the 1 hour journey to the reception for example! ha

 

[salacious]

Thanks for the info guys great advice, my nerves have kicked back in for some reason haha, my aim is to reduce the photos down to 500, im finding the bride didnt smile alot .. do you find this also? she looked nervous? I think they are great natural pictures but not mantelpiece ones, do you encounter this alot and what do you do about it? I obviously asked her to smile as much as possible but alot of the normal pics are without a smile, is this an issue or just me over-thinking?

 

[soulbot]

...making the ratio much more inline with the spray and pray category!

How did you go about shooting your very first wedding?

 

[Apple fanboy]

Thanks for the info guys great advice, my nerves have kicked back in for some reason haha, my aim is to reduce the photos down to 500, im finding the bride didnt smile alot .. do you find this also? she looked nervous? I think they are great natural pictures but not mantelpiece ones, do you encounter this alot and what do you do about it? I obviously asked her to smile as much as possible but alot of the normal pics are without a smile, is this an issue or just me over-thinking?

Think less about a number, and more about the quality. Better to present 100 winners than 500 average shots.

 

[jms969]

Says who?

Wouldn't it be better to "overshoot" it, go home with 3K images, make 3/4 of them vanish then deliver the winners? As opposed to "undershooting" it?

And why even bother to compare a literal first-timer to an "average wedding photographer"?

The shotgun approach means you are not composing your shots you are just praying that some of them are acceptable...

 

[soulbot]

The shotgun approach means you are not composing your shots you are just praying that some of them are acceptable...

Uh, thanks?? But you're kind of missing the point… so we'll get to play the reiteration game. You said:

"3000+ images is more than double what an average wedding photographer takes"

1.) I want to know more details about your data. What is an "average wedding photographer"? How many of them did you poll? Can you point us to the source of your information? Otherwise, blanket statements masquerading as empiricism are utterly pointless.

2.) Most importantly, like I said before, what good does it do to draw comparisons between experienced wedding photographers and someone that is an absolute first-timer?? It should be able to go without being said—but evidently not: OF COURSE of a complete rookie isn't going to come home with the same kind of quality / quantity as someone with experience!! There are a million analogies that spring to mind that would demonstrate just how terribly flawed this comparison is. But I'm not going to waste time with analogies. If it's not already plainly obvious then parallelisms surely won't help...

 

[jms969]

Thanks for the info guys great advice, my nerves have kicked back in for some reason haha, my aim is to reduce the photos down to 500, im finding the bride didnt smile alot .. do you find this also? she looked nervous? I think they are great natural pictures but not mantelpiece ones, do you encounter this alot and what do you do about it? I obviously asked her to smile as much as possible but alot of the normal pics are without a smile, is this an issue or just me over-thinking?

Lets see some images

 

[soulbot]

Is it really worth hijacking a thread like this, where somebody has asked for help, by bickering?

Cheers

Hugh

No, it's not worth it. I'm big enough to admit that. And despite what one may take away from my last couple of posts, the fact is that I don't like contributing to these threads' devolution into playground nonsense. However, I'm only going to sit idly by for so long, while muppets incessantly drip negativity into the discussion — without calling them out on it!

"Wow, I'm dumbfounded"
"You are completely screwed"
""3000+ images is more than double what an average wedding photographer takes"
"blah blah blah"

What do all these comments have in common?

Since this thread's genesis, many of the comments have been quite cynical and negative. When our OP was blamed for "spraying and praying" I defended him outright and still do. I'm one of the few naysayers.

I'm certain you guys have all hung out here long enough that you're able to completely disregard all the rubbish that comes through. And good on ya because there's plenty of it! But, I asked this kid to substantiate his posts with facts and he refused to do it. Twice. Once pressed, he gets snarky. Well, guess what? Two can play at that game: so I let him have it. I know, I know… As wise man once said, "Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference." So, I've done myself a disservice by taking the bait. I'll gladly apologize to our OP and everyone ELSE that had to witness it and will move forward.

But I outright refuse to apologize to our resident poseur. As far as I'm concerned, the ones contributing 100% noise and zero signal deserve to get put on blast. Ignoring them sends the distinct message that it's okay to continue being snotty. It is not okay!

 

[soulbot]

Thanks for the info guys great advice, my nerves have kicked back in for some reason haha, my aim is to reduce the photos down to 500, im finding the bride didnt smile alot .. do you find this also? she looked nervous? I think they are great natural pictures but not mantelpiece ones, do you encounter this alot and what do you do about it? I obviously asked her to smile as much as possible but alot of the normal pics are without a smile, is this an issue or just me over-thinking?

Here's the thing. Don't get too caught up in numbers. Every C-grade shot you deliver is diluting your A+ shots. I think the "less is more" mentality is going to win the race for you. And I know it's a bitter pill to swallow, but if the bride wasn't smiling much on the day, after being told to do so, there wasn't much you could've done then—and then's pretty much nothing that you can do now. It's difficult to be the one that delivers the reality of the day sometimes, but that's part of the job. You can only record what actually happened that day and you can't be responsible for what didn't happen. Now, if things happened and you missed it, that's another thing altogether. If the bride wasn't smiling throughout the day, she'll probably understand, when she sees the nervous look on her face in the photos. But you can't document what wasn't there, so I wouldn't worry about it too much. (Which I know is easier said than done.)

There's a couple of ways to edit. And let's be clear: I'm referring to "editing" in the sense of Yes or No? Is the shot a keeper, or not. The term's gotten so diluted it's hard to know what someone's talking about unless you're explicit about it. Is it culling? Adjusting? Retouching? Well, I'm talking about culling. Is it a deliverable shot or not? And you can go at with a couple of different strategies. What I've come to call top-down or bottom-up.

Top-down is what we do when we're looking for the sneak peek shots. These are pretty much the top-notch images, the obvious A+ shots. Give them a star, or 5-stars, or whatever makes sense to you. Essentially, you're after the best shots—and you're keeping them. You'll end up with a tiny ratio, given the entire pool of photos.

With bottom-up, anything that is decent gets to move on. Obvious rejects get dumped. But if it's a pretty solid shot, it's a keeper. So, basically here you're looking for the worst shots—and you're getting rid of them. Here you'll have a much higher ratio of 'keepers' than you would with a top-down tactic.

So, we do top-down when we're hunting for sneak peek shots. Then we're doing bottom-up culls when we're defining the pool that we're going to deliver to them in the end. But I think you should consider a top-down approach the entire time. If you go bottom-up you're probably going to have too many C-grade shots in your final set. Keep it super tight and lean. Less is more. Fewer is better.

(By the way, I'm not trying to say that we deliver "Cs". We don't. it's only As and B+, but it's a bottom-up pass that gets us there.)

Hope that helps!

And remember: the most difficult wedding to shoot is your first.

 

[Padaung]

I shot just over 3000 photos at a wedding last month. I am an experienced photographer.

Giving definite numbers about how many to shoot and how many to present defines amounts for something which doesn't require defining.

I have also photographed weddings where I've taken a little more than 1000 photos. Back in the days of film I may have shot only a few hundred (10 rolls of 36 exposure film, for example).

Every wedding is different. The wedding last month was on a beautiful August day in the UK in the countryside, with a beautiful couple, lots of details placed into their day, guests which took a very active part in the day, and many other things going on which meant I had the camera almost constantly to my eye.

Other weddings are of a slower pace, fewer details, the locations not so photogenic, etc. and so you take fewer photos.

No matter how many pictures I take on the day, like earlier posts have mentioned, I look to only show the couple my A and B+ images. Filter the rest out. That then gives you your final number to show to the couple.

The wedding from last month I may choose to only show them the A photos as I think that will be enough. However, I don't present a couple with more than 750 pictures (which is a lot!) as it then takes ages to watch through them all and too many images (no matter how good) of a certain section of the day can become dull to sit through.

I typically present couples with anywhere between 200-750 photos of their day- this depends on the coverage they requested, how long I was present at the wedding for, and all the other factors I mentioned earlier about how photogenic everything is, etc, and finally how much they paid as I don't want to spend multiple days editing if they paid me a lower rate.

Hope that helps, although it is like the answer to 'how long is a piece of string? It depends...'

 

[jms969]

No, it's not worth it. I'm big enough to admit that. And despite what one may take away from my last couple of posts, the fact is that I don't like contributing to these threads' devolution into playground nonsense. However, I'm only going to sit idly by for so long, while muppets incessantly drip negativity into the discussion — without calling them out on it!

"Wow, I'm dumbfounded"
"You are completely screwed"
""3000+ images is more than double what an average wedding photographer takes"
"blah blah blah"

What do all these comments have in common?

Since this thread's genesis, many of the comments have been quite cynical and negative. When our OP was blamed for "spraying and praying" I defended him outright and still do. I'm one of the few naysayers.

I'm certain you guys have all hung out here long enough that you're able to completely disregard all the rubbish that comes through. And good on ya because there's plenty of it! But, I asked this kid to substantiate his posts with facts and he refused to do it. Twice. Once pressed, he gets snarky. Well, guess what? Two can play at that game: so I let him have it. I know, I know… As wise man once said, "Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference." So, I've done myself a disservice by taking the bait. I'll gladly apologize to our OP and everyone ELSE that had to witness it and will move forward.

But I outright refuse to apologize to our resident poseur. As far as I'm concerned, the ones contributing 100% noise and zero signal deserve to get put on blast. Ignoring them sends the distinct message that it's okay to continue being snotty. It is not okay!

I certainly don't care what you think, and you certainly did not "let me have it". The guy obviously sprayed and prayed, his only saving grace may be that he is experienced in videography.

Kid

You just don't like it when someone pushes back on you when you are clearly WRONG

 

[jms969]

Still waiting to see some images!!!

 

[soulbot]

You just don't like it when someone pushes back on you when you are clearly WRONG

Let's try this once more, nice and slow. I'll be as polite as I can this time around…

It all comes down to this, the crux:

3000+ images is more than double what an average wedding photographer takes

I asked you to qualify this (artificial) number for us. Where did it come from? Back up your claims. But you deflected. Until finally you said you googled it — immediately revealing the invalidity of your "facts". Regurgitating the first hit you find on google is not helpful. Hate to burst your bubble but it's downright meaningless.

However, I played your game and assumed your novel statistic had a sliver of merit and asked: How can we possibly compare an experienced wedding photographer with a guy shooting his VERY first wedding? Your reply? Crickets! Maybe here's where you realized how pointless your assertions were … and you substituted a proper answer with mockery. (Remember? The bit about "blah, blah, blah". x2?) I, like you, am also "still waiting"... to hear you explain why this comparison would ever matter.

So, if your retorts are your version of "pushing back", that's marvelous. Duly noted. But see, I don't have a problem with being wrong. I have a problem with people simply running out of meaningful things to say and reverting to juvenile jabs instead. And BTW, you do realize that when you had the chance to tell us why such a comparison had credence that you quite literally said nothing. Right? Unless, you consider "blah blah blah" to be a rebuttal. Because that was the pinnacle of your "push back".

And as far as "letting you have it" goes… Do not misunderstand. I'm not saying that I "taught you a lesson". That would be impossible. I'm simply saying that I took the low road and changed my tone: I became flippant, dismissive, sarcastic and snide. I stooped to your level.

What is it exactly that I'm so wrong about? Whether or not our OP was "spraying and praying"? Well, let me clarify. I don't know if the OP was spraying and praying. (Until he tells us, no one knows!) Maybe so, maybe not. But WHO CARES?!?! Except for the infinite pool of armchair quarterbacks, tirelessly prowling for an opportunity to tell someone else that "they're doing it wrong!"??

So that you don't have to read between the lines: I do not condone the spray and pray tactic. (As I have already plainly stated.) BUT I will make ONE huge exception: first timers!! They get a pass from me!! Assuming that a rookie has the same skill set as a veteran is asinine. So I am perfectly okay with giving a first timer some allowances. If no one else agrees, that's a-okay with me. Because at the end of the day, the first timer's technique is not what we should scrutinize. It's the end result. Did they get the shot(s). If the answer is Yes — then who gives a flip HOW they got it done. They got it done!! THAT is what matters! How many Formula One Championships have been won by drivers in their rookie year? Does experience help? If no one wants to loosen up "the rules" a hair, for a newbie, that's fine. And I will continue to disagree. The goal is to learn, evolve and improve, shedding less-than-ideal tactics along the way. I don't think I can make it any more plain than that… Simply: first-timers should get some concessions.

Finally, I think you should look back at this entire thread. What have you really contributed? What was your overall tone? How many times did you weigh in and how many of those comments were positive. Helpful? If you don't have anything constructive to add — which you clearly do not — just bow out of the conversation.

 

[salacious]

woahh talk about coming back to a royal rumble haha

Anyways, I cant show any images yet until they are all done, im still deleting photos that are crap im 60% through, once iv deleted them all, im gonna run through them again and delete more until im left with around 700 or so.

I've been really busy with video work so havent had much time to do much, but I should be done processing by the end of the week.

Everyones advice has been great whether negative or positive.

and regardless if anyone thinks my pics are rubbish, if the bride and groom are happy then thats all that counts

 

[soulbot]

...and regardless if anyone thinks my pics are rubbish, if the bride and groom are happy then thats all that counts

Exactly!

 

[jms969]

Let's try this once more, nice and slow. I'll be as polite as I can this time around…

It all comes down to this, the crux:



I asked you to qualify this (artificial) number for us. Where did it come from? Back up your claims. But you deflected. Until finally you said you googled it — immediately revealing the invalidity of your "facts". Regurgitating the first hit you find on google is not helpful. Hate to burst your bubble but it's downright meaningless.

However, I played your game and assumed your novel statistic had a sliver of merit and asked: How can we possibly compare an experienced wedding photographer with a guy shooting his VERY first wedding? Your reply? Crickets! Maybe here's where you realized how pointless your assertions were … and you substituted a proper answer with mockery. (Remember? The bit about "blah, blah, blah". x2?) I, like you, am also "still waiting"... to hear you explain why this comparison would ever matter.

So, if your retorts are your version of "pushing back", that's marvelous. Duly noted. But see, I don't have a problem with being wrong. I have a problem with people simply running out of meaningful things to say and reverting to juvenile jabs instead. And BTW, you do realize that when you had the chance to tell us why such a comparison had credence that you quite literally said nothing. Right? Unless, you consider "blah blah blah" to be a rebuttal. Because that was the pinnacle of your "push back".

And as far as "letting you have it" goes… Do not misunderstand. I'm not saying that I "taught you a lesson". That would be impossible. I'm simply saying that I took the low road and changed my tone: I became flippant, dismissive, sarcastic and snide. I stooped to your level.

What is it exactly that I'm so wrong about? Whether or not our OP was "spraying and praying"? Well, let me clarify. I don't know if the OP was spraying and praying. (Until he tells us, no one knows!) Maybe so, maybe not. But WHO CARES?!?! Except for the infinite pool of armchair quarterbacks, tirelessly prowling for an opportunity to tell someone else that "they're doing it wrong!"??

So that you don't have to read between the lines: I do not condone the spray and pray tactic. (As I have already plainly stated.) BUT I will make ONE huge exception: first timers!! They get a pass from me!! Assuming that a rookie has the same skill set as a veteran is asinine. So I am perfectly okay with giving a first timer some allowances. If no one else agrees, that's a-okay with me. Because at the end of the day, the first timer's technique is not what we should scrutinize. It's the end result. Did they get the shot(s). If the answer is Yes — then who gives a flip HOW they got it done. They got it done!! THAT is what matters! How many Formula One Championships have been won by drivers in their rookie year? Does experience help? If no one wants to loosen up "the rules" a hair, for a newbie, that's fine. And I will continue to disagree. The goal is to learn, evolve and improve, shedding less-than-ideal tactics along the way. I don't think I can make it any more plain than that… Simply: first-timers should get some concessions.

Finally, I think you should look back at this entire thread. What have you really contributed? What was your overall tone? How many times did you weigh in and how many of those comments were positive. Helpful? If you don't have anything constructive to add — which you clearly do not — just bow out of the conversation.

Wow what an epistle!!! It is of course total rubbish and you are still clearly wrong. Of course you know that but it just burns you up to be called on it.

Bow out, hahahahahaha not a chance...

 

[soulbot]

Still waiting to see some images!!!

More exclamation points isn't helping. And why are you begging to see photos anyway? Are you a photographer? A wedding photographer? A photo editor? Are you the groom? The bride? Why do you think your opinion is going to matter? It could not be more irrelevant!! You have not offered ONE SINGLE POSITIVE thing to the conversation. No one expects you to start now.

I would beg to differ, critiques for the most part are worthless. I am happy to learn a technical skill from someone, but honestly a critique of the content of a photo, not interested... While some are, most of those providing critiques are unqualified to do so.

Hmm, sound familiar?

 

[soulbot]

3000+ images is more than double what an average wedding photographer takes

Last try:

• Where did this come from?

• Why would it apply to a literal first-timer?

 

[acearchie]

How did you go about shooting your very first wedding?

In a cool, calm and methodical manner, obviously!

It was by no means easy but I still stand by the fact that spent looking for photos is better than keeping the camera infront of you and trying to shoot everything.

Anyways, I cant show any images yet until they are all done, im still deleting photos that are crap im 60% through, once iv deleted them all, im gonna run through them again and delete more until im left with around 700 or so.

Just a word of warning! Never delete anything until the job is complete.

You might delete something good by mistake but more importantly you might find that the client comes back and asks for a specific photo of someone/something that you had previously decided had been unimportant or unflattering.

Reject the photos or mark the ones you want to keep. Hold off deleting them until the whole job is complete!