Wait for Next Years 2018 MacBook Pro Update if You Can

[jerryk]

Overpriced Steve Jobs.
As my opinion is Mac get better and better after Jobs death, most people thing Jobs good for Mac is not real use the product that Jobs era, which OSX have many minor problem before 10.5 and not good for non-professional usage.

The main reason for suspend OSX or Mac get better is the competitor, like Microsoft which provide very poor OS (Win10), Linux become very complex and no with good UI interface, together with bad PC industrial which only do something cost down, or their premier model just with normal quality and better cosmetic and label it better that MBP, everytime i wish shift back to windows system found Mac already the most valuable system and cheapest solution.

Last day, I just upgrade my PC last day for annual win10 update for three hours process , with many issue after upgrade, and the MS make the interface more disgusting.

What sort of issue are you having with Windows 10. Mine took minutes and works great. No change to the interface as far as I can tell. Windows 10 Pro.

 

[Mr. Dee]

With Jony Ive back in the saddle, here is what I now expect to see in the 2018 MacBook Pro:

- Return of Magsafe
- Return of an SD card reader
- Smaller Touchpad
- Keyboard with optimum travel, more sturdy and easy to clean
- Touch bar in addition to Function keys
- Previous chassis
- Face ID
- Hey Siri/A10 chip

 

[haydn!]

With Jony Ive back in the saddle, here is what I now expect to see in the 2018 MacBook Pro:

- Return of Magsafe
- Return of an SD card reader
- Smaller Touchpad
- Keyboard with optimum travel, more sturdy and easy to clean
- Touch bar in addition to Function keys
- Previous chassis
- Face ID
- Hey Siri/A10 chip

I think you’ll be disappointed. There may, or may not be depending how you interpret certain interviews, some indirect admission they got a few things wrong but Apple won’t step backwards.

There will no doubt be some improvements to the keyboard and most likely battery but I don’t think we’ll see a thicker chassis or a return of abandoned ports. They’re on the right track with that move they just ran too far ahead of the crowd too quickly. I think they’re more likely to quietly add a free dongle or two in the box than take a step backwards in design - but if ports was really hitting sales they would have done that with the 2017 refresh so again I think this is a very unlikely move.

 

[PBG4 Dude]

The USB-C/TB3 ports are too Apple for Apple to give up. Now that these ports can become any other port with an adapter, why would Apple add specific ports?

If you add an HDMI port that means that a piece of bandwidth is permanently allocated to HDMI output, no matter what. This means the bandwidth driving the HDMI port is permanently allocated and can not be used for anything else, ever. Does that sound like Apple’s design philosophy to you? Ports that can only do one thing vs a port that can be anything?

 

[Persian-apple]

but the question is how much longer should we wait for this thing? im not waiting for than 3-4 month for sure

 

[Poki]

but the question is how much longer should we wait for this thing? im not waiting for than 3-4 month for sure

That's always the problem though, isn't it? At the point where you already waited 9 months since the last update, you just don't want to commit to the old model, making all this waiting useless.

As for me, I'm waiting since 2015 to upgrade my 2009 MacBook Pro. I had various reasons why I didn't purchase the two latest models, but I'm going to buy next year's model no matter what they do. While my 2009 MBP does work (I'm typing this on that notebook), it's simply useless for any kind of work, so it's basically just a web browser with a very nice keyboard.

 

[Dave245]

With Jony Ive back in the saddle, here is what I now expect to see in the 2018 MacBook Pro:

- Return of Magsafe
- Return of an SD card reader
- Smaller Touchpad
- Keyboard with optimum travel, more sturdy and easy to clean
- Touch bar in addition to Function keys
- Previous chassis
- Face ID
- Hey Siri/A10 chip

There is no way that you will see that in the 2018 MacBook Pro, i'm not sure why you think that because John Ive is officially back in charge it will make a difference? Apple work on things years ahead with a roadmap that they have.

 

[turbineseaplane]

@Dave245

You certainly may be right.

That said, I'm hopeful based upon listening closely to Gruber's latest Podcast with Panzarino.
They were on site in Cupertino at the hardware "shop" for an iMac Pro showing and there are several times they sort of hint that Apple was caught surprised about MBP reaction and that there may be a slight course correction down the line.

Hard to know what that really means though, to your point for sure.

 

[Dave245]

@Dave245

You certainly may be right.

That said, I'm hopeful based upon listening closely to Gruber's latest Podcast with Panzarino.
They were on site in Cupertino at the hardware "shop" for an iMac Pro showing and there are several times they sort of hint that Apple was caught surprised about MBP reaction and that there may be a slight course correction down the line.

Hard to know what that really means though, to your point for sure.

I wonder if that's a change in terms of the keyboard? it might be easier to correct and change that than it would the whole design. I hope they don't take away the Touch Bar, it's something that helps when editing footage.

Edit: Do you have a link to that podcast you mentioned? i'd like to listen to it if possible.

 

[ixxx69]

Apple has lost it's way many times before and come back stronger. In the 1984 they had a hit with the original Mac. For about 2 years. Then they got lost and started getting into too many side businesses and made it hard for developers to work with them. The PCs became predominate because it was where the software was and software drives customers to a platform, not the other way around.

In the early 90s Apple had some good systems, and then wander off into rainbow colors as a way to sell systems. Meanwhile Gates was earning billions. By 1995 Apple had shrunk so much 1 Infinity Loop had to rent space to a bookstore to help cover the rent. Microsoft had Windows 95 and Office 95 and taken over a lot of the ex-Apple buildings in Cupertino and hired a lot of ex-Apple engineers whose stock options were "worthless".

Apple had similar issues when Jobs first came back. A lot of political in-fighting in the C suites with people screaming and storming out the door. They only seemed to get it together in the late 2000s with the first iPhone, which was there 3 or 4th attempt to integrated phone and computer. And even then there were a lot of people that had to go to the mat with Steve over apps. He wanted to restrict the device to running only Apple written apps. Others were wiser and saw that the 3rd party developers would be the strength of the system. And then Jobs claimed that it was his idea.

And then Cook's ascendancy came and brought the discipline needed to propel the company forward on firm financial footing, rather than Job's "screw the numbers, it will work out".

So while you need a leader with a vision, you also need someone that can come up with strategies to keep the cash flowing to keep the vision going.

The original Mac was practically a flop sales-wise... it was the Apple II that kept them in business until the Mac Plus really started to improve sales... and the Mac SE & II in the late '80s that really got things going on the Mac side.

As Apple II sales dried up, along with horrid management and a confusing Mac product line, the '90's were a disaster until Job's return in the late part of that decade, and things immediately started to turn around with his guidance, including the huge hit of the original iMac. The investment deal with Microsoft was primarily for the optics... it wasn't like Microsoft bailed them out financially.

Then there was something called the "iPod" which became a huge hit in the early oughts, as well as their extremely successful PowerBook line, and the very successful transition to OS X. The iPhone was the first attempt to integrate a phone and computer, not the third or fourth. If you're referring to Newton, that was a PDA, and not sure how that's an example of "losing their way"... it a great concept that didn't match the available technology.

Your take on Job's "screw the numbers, it will work out" is actually quite antithetical to Jobs' philosophy, and why Cook was allowed to ascend the way he did.

I agree with your premise that Apple has had ups and downs and come back stronger... though the only time they truly "lost their way" was that '90's period. And I agree with your conclusion that you need a leader with vision as well as a good business management team... which is what they had until Jobs' death... now they really lack in the "vision" department.

 

[Dave245]

The original Mac was practically a flop sales-wise... it was the Apple II that kept them in business until the Mac Plus really started to improve sales... and the Mac SE & II in the late '80s that really got things going on the Mac side.

As Apple II sales dried up, along with horrid management and a confusing Mac product line, the '90's were a disaster until Job's return in the late part of that decade, and things immediately started to turn around with his guidance, including the huge hit of the original iMac. The investment deal with Microsoft was primarily for the optics... it wasn't like Microsoft bailed them out financially.

Then there was something called the "iPod" which became a huge hit in the early oughts, as well as their extremely successful PowerBook line, and the very successful transition to OS X. The iPhone was the first attempt to integrate a phone and computer, not the third or fourth. If you're referring to Newton, that was a PDA, and not sure how that's an example of "losing their way"... it a great concept that didn't match the available technology.

Your take on Job's "screw the numbers, it will work out" is actually quite antithetical to Jobs' philosophy, and why Cook was allowed to ascend the way he did.

I agree with your premise that Apple has had ups and downs and come back stronger... though the only time they truly "lost their way" was that '90's period. And I agree with your conclusion that you need a leader with vision as well as a good business management team... which is what they had until Jobs' death... now they really lack in the "vision" department.

Let’s not forget that the original iMac was a design by Johny Ive so that cant be fully attributed to Steve Jobs, the point being that while Steve Jobs was a great manager he didn’t come up with all these ideas on his own, it was often Johny Ive who had the design ideas including the iMac and IPod. It wasn’t all down to Jobs.

 

[jerryk]

Let’s not forget that the original iMac was a design by Johny Ive so that cant be fully attributed to Steve Jobs, the point being that while Steve Jobs was a great manager he didn’t come up with all these ideas on his own, it was often Johny Ive who had the design ideas including the iMac and IPod. It wasn’t all down to Jobs.

And Ives and jobs designed the ugly macs with the monitor on a stick and the round base. Supposedly after walking in Job's garden and looking at sunflowers. Maybe SteveO had some the acid left over from the old days.

 

[Dave245]

And Ives and jobs designed the ugly macs with the monitor on a stick and the round base. Supposedly after walking in Job's garden and looking at sunflowers. Maybe SteveO had some the acid left over from the old days.

Yea that’s how the story goes, i didn’t mind that design but it is a personal opinion on design, I love the all in one form factor of the iMac even to this day, I have a 2012 redesigned thin iMac and I’m currently waiting for the next design before upgrading.

My point being that it wasn’t just Steve Jobs who came up with and worked on the ideas for devices, A lot of the time he got all the credit even tho it was his team that did the work (such as Johny Ive and so on).

 

[ixxx69]

Let’s not forget that the original iMac was a design by Johny Ive so that cant be fully attributed to Steve Jobs, the point being that while Steve Jobs was a great manager he didn’t come up with all these ideas on his own, it was often Johny Ive who had the design ideas including the iMac and IPod. It wasn’t all down to Jobs.

Ironically enough, I edited that aside out of my original post for length and because it's really beside the point. There's a hundred subtleties to all of this.

And yes, Jobs wasn't a "designer"... his strengths were the larger "vision" and sweating the "details". The iMac was already under development when Jobs returned, but Jobs zeroed in on that particular design and made it the focus while killing off the ridiculous number of product lines that were just part of the disaster he inherited.

 

[fokmik]

so bottom line why
Wait for Next Years 2018 MacBook Pro Update if I Can?
what is rumoured ?
13" and 15" MBP with kaby lake R
16 gb Ram
256 standard on 13"
512 on 15" ?
same gpu amd radeon pro 555 and 560?

 

[midcentswank]

With Jony Ive back in the saddle, here is what I now expect to see in the 2018 MacBook Pro:

- Return of Magsafe
- Return of an SD card reader
- Smaller Touchpad
- Keyboard with optimum travel, more sturdy and easy to clean
- Touch bar in addition to Function keys
- Previous chassis
- Face ID
- Hey Siri/A10 chip

I'm not sure Ive was ever truly "away." It's unfathomable that he's had zero input on recent designs despite the reported hiatus. And good designers don't just jam the next iteration with changes to the aesthetics and functionality. They do it gradually. I met Richard Howarth around the time that Ive was allegedly stepping back and this was the tone of our conversation.

What I'd like to see:

Full-speed TB3 ports on the 13" (huge mistake on Apple's part)
15" non-TB model
1080p60 FaceTime camera (seriously, Apple, why is this still not updated?)
AMD Vega GPU
32 GB DDR4
6-core Coffee Lake


Moonshot wish list:

Increase keyboard travel distance to 1.0 mm (currently 0.5, I believe). Seriously, the current keyboard is awful.
MicroLED panel, 120 Hz, HDR10
A11 chip to handle all lower-power tasks and GPU accelerated macOS animations (if that is even useful)
FaceID in the FaceTime camera module
6 TB ports @ 100 Gbps on 15" (or 4 on the 13"), which I think is the threshold for feasible eGPU solutions
Sweet DAC/headphone amp to drive 300 Ohm headphones
MagSafe
W2 chip for connectivity with BT headphones and Earpods; BT 5.0 with support for Sony LDAC and other HD formats

 

[wubsylol]

Considering that, for better or worse, there's just been a MBP redesign last year, I doubt we'll be seeing any drastic Ive changes for a while yet. The 2018 model will probably just have updated components (Coffee Lake, Vega, DDR4).

 

[Dave245]

The 2018 model will probably just have updated components (Coffee Lake, Vega, DDR4).

I wouldn’t mind a spec update if they can bring quad core and discrete graphics to the 13” MacBook Pro.

People say about Johny Ive coming back to his role but I still think he had a say on some of this stuff and new what was going to be coming out, don’t forget he did the voice over for the 2016 MacBook Pro promo video.

 

[richinaus]

I wouldn’t mind a spec update if they can bring quad core and discrete graphics to the 13” MacBook Pro.

People say about Johny Ive coming back to his role but I still think he had a say on some of this stuff and new what was going to be coming out, don’t forget he did the voice over for the 2016 MacBook Pro promo video.

He would have had full oversight on what was being released and nothing would have gone out without his approval. His return to the role will be more hands-on than he has been recently but no one should be in any doubt that he wouldn't have had some say in the current designs.

 

[sublunar]

I wouldn’t mind a spec update if they can bring quad core and discrete graphics to the 13” MacBook Pro.

People say about Johny Ive coming back to his role but I still think he had a say on some of this stuff and new what was going to be coming out, don’t forget he did the voice over for the 2016 MacBook Pro promo video.

I think Coffee Lake brings 4 genuine cores to 28w parts suitable for the 13" MacBook Pro. If Apple choose Iris Graphics parts for graphics the cost will probably be lower overall clock speed. It's the same idea for the 6 core i7 parts. Note sure if that precludes the Iris Graphics parts that Apple seem to prefer though.

Discrete graphics would be too much to ask for in such a small space unless Apple drop down to 15w parts and choose 10w GPUs.

 

[fokmik]

is there any new or upcoming dGPU to fit in the upcoming 15" MBP? or it will have the same 555 and 560?

 

[Dave245]

I think Coffee Lake brings 4 genuine cores to 28w parts suitable for the 13" MacBook Pro. If Apple choose Iris Graphics parts for graphics the cost will probably be lower overall clock speed. It's the same idea for the 6 core i7 parts. Note sure if that precludes the Iris Graphics parts that Apple seem to prefer though.

Discrete graphics would be too much to ask for in such a small space unless Apple drop down to 15w parts and choose 10w GPUs.

Personally i don't see them changing up the design much especially with sales of the MacBook Pro being up this year, i don't know if that's due to the 2017 refresh they did or whether it took people a while to get use to the Touch Bar. Personally i wan't to upgrade from my 2011 MacBook Pro that has served me very well over the last 6 years, however it's now getting slow to load up and some tasks just crash and are very slow (even opening iMovie can be, that's before i even upgrade to Final Cut X in the new year).

In terms of a spec bum in 2018 what are we talking for the 15" if the 13" does indeed have a quad core?

 

[fokmik]

Personally i don't see them changing up the design much especially with sales of the MacBook Pro being up this year, i don't know if that's due to the 2017 refresh they did or whether it took people a while to get use to the Touch Bar. Personally i wan't to upgrade from my 2011 MacBook Pro that has served me very well over the last 6 years, however it's now getting slow to load up and some tasks just crash and are very slow (even opening iMovie can be, that's before i even upgrade to Final Cut X in the new year).

In terms of a spec bum in 2018 what are we talking for the 15" if the 13" does indeed have a quad core?

15" will have the 48W 6C

 

[Dave245]

15" will have the 48W 6C

It would be good to see a 6 core MacBook Pro, i'm waiting until 2018 to see what happens. I wonder if they will be updated at WWDC or later tho, would be nice to see a April - March update but i doubt it.

My editing habits are changing from iMovie for simple and quick edits to Final Cut Pro X next year.

 

[sublunar]

I'm not sure Ive was ever truly "away." It's unfathomable that he's had zero input on recent designs despite the reported hiatus. And good designers don't just jam the next iteration with changes to the aesthetics and functionality. They do it gradually. I met Richard Howarth around the time that Ive was allegedly stepping back and this was the tone of our conversation.

What I'd like to see:

Full-speed TB3 ports on the 13" (huge mistake on Apple's part)
15" non-TB model
1080p60 FaceTime camera (seriously, Apple, why is this still not updated?)
AMD Vega GPU
32 GB DDR4
6-core Coffee Lake


Moonshot wish list:

Increase keyboard travel distance to 1.0 mm (currently 0.5, I believe). Seriously, the current keyboard is awful.
MicroLED panel, 120 Hz, HDR10
A11 chip to handle all lower-power tasks and GPU accelerated macOS animations (if that is even useful)
FaceID in the FaceTime camera module
6 TB ports @ 100 Gbps on 15" (or 4 on the 13"), which I think is the threshold for feasible eGPU solutions
Sweet DAC/headphone amp to drive 300 Ohm headphones
MagSafe
W2 chip for connectivity with BT headphones and Earpods; BT 5.0 with support for Sony LDAC and other HD formats

Lack of 'full speed' TB3 ports on the 13" MacBook Pro is not product differentiation - there just aren't enough PCIe lanes available on the 28w CPUs. Apple could have opted for 3 full speed ports with the 12 PCIe lanes but instead decided to give us 4 with the two on the right hand side sharing the bandwidth of a single controller.

If there is any product differentiation going on then they've neutered the non touch bar MacBook Pros with just two ports despite their CPUs also coming with 12 PCIe lanes. Leaving them with 3 wouldn't have been much differentiation.

Without a doubt Apple will be disappointed at the lack of take-up of USB-C but they can't chicken out now, especially with the case getting thinner.

1080p60 camera - can they even fit in the case lid as it stands?

AMD VEGA GPUs aren't even available yet - better ask AMD. Apple would choose GPUs within their thermal specifications anyway.

For marketing reasons Apple are all-in on the Touch-bar at the moment. Without a doubt they aren't interested in offering people an option to swerve it otherwise they balkanise the Touchbar market for app developers.

32Gb DDR4 won't be a possibility until Cannon Lake - which is the generation AFTER Coffee Lake (aka Kaby lake refresh). Ask Intel about that.

6 core coffee lake is a possibility in i7 mobile form. They are unlikely to be Iris Graphics equipped.

As far as the moon shot stuff.
It's been mentioned elsewhere that Keyboard matters have been noted at Apple.

The Touchbar already carries an A class CPU which adds to the costs, An A11 class CPU would add lots of the bottom line.


Thunderbolt 3 is 40Gb/s. TB1 was 10Gb/s, TB2 was bidirectional TB1 but seen as 20Gb/s. 100Gb/s suggests TB5. TB4 hasn't even been fully ratified yet (I expect 80Gb/s) and PCIe 4.0 is only just available. So technology not available for one. And 6 TB ports suggests half speed ports all round because CPUs simply don't carry that many PCIe lanes and there'd be no space on the case for that many ports.

And I'm sure they'd love Magsafe to be back. Not sure how that would work though.