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iKnowMr.Jobs

macrumors 6502
Oct 17, 2010
273
96
I don't understand this never-ending mantra of "next year's model is going to kick so much ass, just wait it out". If you need a new machine (or even just want), there's no better time to buy than the present.

I bought a 2016 MBP. I typed this entire message on it, after the 2017 model is out. Why? Because it still works. These things just don't die or disappear once the new models ship.
 
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cookies!

macrumors 6502
Jul 3, 2011
456
132
If thats the case, then Apple is likely to skip the Kabylake Refresh and we won't see new MacBook Pro's in 2018 until October 2018. So, getting the 2017 model makes better sense.

I'm waiting for Covfefelake before I upgrade.

But really, what if Apple just gives up on Intel because of the constant production delays and instead goes with AMD for the entire line? It would certainly be good for competition :) I just don't see them going to ARM yet.
 

dyn

macrumors 68030
Aug 8, 2009
2,708
388
.nl
Why would you buy a Mac for VR development? If you were in that field, your company would probably get one when they're supported in order to develop on. So not really an issue. You could of course just get an external GPU which Apple will now be taking a more active role in developing.
That's not how R&D works (mind you, companies aren't the only ones experimenting with VR and doing VR development, universities do too). The sole purpose of R&D is to play and experiment with these things in order to come up with some actual useable and profitable functionality as well as to increase ones knowledge. Hence why many companies jump right in with betas and such. Some even do so because that's when you get to influence the development of the hardware/software you are using for your own development.

The answer to your question thus would be: to learn.
 
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Merkava_4

macrumors 6502a
Sep 4, 2010
724
92
California
I'm waiting for the update with the detachable battery like the 2007 pre-Unibody had in its lower case. Having to take a MacBook Pro completely apart and then use a glue solvent to remove the batteries is ridiculous.
 
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New_Mac_Smell

macrumors 68000
Oct 17, 2016
1,931
1,552
Shanghai
That's not how R&D works (mind you, companies aren't the only ones experimenting with VR and doing VR development, universities do too). The sole purpose of R&D is to play and experiment with these things in order to come up with some actual useable and profitable functionality as well as to increase ones knowledge. Hence why many companies jump right in with betas and such. Some even do so because that's when you get to influence the development of the hardware/software you are using for your own development.

The answer to your question thus would be: to learn.

I was replying to the OP...

"The 2018 MacBook Pro would be the first real taste of VR in an Apple notebook line natively for game play, video editing and software development. It would be the first Apple notebook to seriously show off High Sierra too and features such as Metal, Machine Learning, ARKit. Apple would also want a family of devices that are VR/AR ready for sure."

They were stating to hold off buying one until next year as this will be when they're supported. This is was I was referencing, as in buy one when you're actually able to use VR with it.

And that's what I was saying. Purely why would you buy a Mac for VR today, if you were in the field of VR you would buy one when they are supported in order to develop on. I'm pretty sure that's precisely how R&D works, you can't R&D on something that doesn't exist yet right?
 
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dyn

macrumors 68030
Aug 8, 2009
2,708
388
.nl
Actually that is one part of R&D. R&D simply means doing research into things. It can be your own idea/tech which nobody else outside your own group knows about up to products and betas from other companies.

In this case the entire AR/VR on Mac is new. It hasn't been done before by Apple. All the more reason to go out and play with it to see what it can and cannot do. In other words: learn and gain experience. That's the only way to check out new tech and see what things you can do with it. In some cases the conclusion could be that it is not worth investigating any further while in others it is.

I failed to mention that companies aren't the only ones doing these things. Individuals themselves do that too. It isn't uncommon for IT people to have a so called homelab where they test things in and play around (and there is quite a lot of money involved there with people even using the expensive vSphere licenses from VMWare). It's educational and also fun. Some employers even allow their employees to do things like that.
 
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New_Mac_Smell

macrumors 68000
Oct 17, 2016
1,931
1,552
Shanghai
I guess what I was trying to say. Is if you're into VR you will probably own a PC and be doing development, once Macs are capable you will look at getting one. But there's no need to hold off and wait for a Mac, buy the PC and make a start. From what they (Apple) said they'll be using Unity, so you can make a start developing today and once the Macs support it you can develop for it.
 
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shyam09

macrumors 68020
Oct 31, 2010
2,247
2,507
(current year): don't buy this one. there's gonna be something cooler on next year's model

(next year): don't buy this one. there's gonna be something cooler on next year's model

(next year): don't buy this one. there's gonna be something cooler on next year's model

(next year): don't buy this one. there's gonna be something cooler on next year's model

(next year): don't buy this one. there's gonna be something cooler on next year's model

(next year): don't buy this one. there's gonna be something cooler on next year's model

(next year): don't buy this one. there's gonna be something cooler on next year's model

(next year): don't buy this one. there's gonna be something cooler on next year's model

(next year): don't buy this one. there's gonna be something cooler on next year's model

(next year): don't buy this one. there's gonna be something cooler on next year's model

(next year): don't buy this one. there's gonna be something cooler on next year's model

(next year): don't buy this one. there's gonna be something cooler on next year's model

(next year): don't buy this one. there's gonna be something cooler on next year's model

(next year): don't buy this one. there's gonna be something cooler on next year's model

(next year): don't buy this one. there's gonna be something cooler on next year's model

(next year): don't buy this one. there's gonna be something cooler on next year's model

(next year): don't buy this one. there's gonna be something cooler on next year's model

etc. etc. etc. etc. forever and ever until the heat death of the universe
Instructions unclear. Bought 2020's model. Regretting it already.
 

0388631

Cancelled
Sep 10, 2009
9,669
10,823
It isn't a question of next year's model but how things work when it comes to tech. Everything gets cheaper from that point on and newer models come out all the time. Adding onto @maflynn's post, buy the computer you can afford now. Correction, buy the best computer you can manage to afford. If you can spare a couple hundred extra for a larger SSD, get it. Or whatever you think you'll need.

Personally, I'd be happy if my '16 model lasts at least four years without feeling slow or needing serious repairs.
 
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Gregintosh

macrumors 68000
Jan 29, 2008
1,923
553
Chicago
Both of those are true for the 2016 & 2017 models if you ask me.

It was true in 2016 when they were suffering all sorts of issues at launch and had an outdated processor at shipping. The 2017 model is what it should have been in 2016.

But now it's likely all technical issues that are going to be resolved in this design/form factor have been resolved in the new model.

Also, there is not going to be a redesign for several more years, and no rumors or even optimistic people would think there's any chance Apple ditches this design after a year on the market.

Most likely in 2018 you'll get a better processor and graphics chip as is the case every year and maybe a 32GB option for RAM. A better battery is possible but far from likely.

Also, no one knows when the next update is coming. I wouldn't expect it before spring. That's a long time to wait for a good computer, and if you can wait that long you probably don't need a pro machine (or those higher specs) to begin with.
 
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Sterkenburg

macrumors 6502a
Oct 27, 2016
555
551
Japan
There's always something better around the corner, such is the nature of technology, but you don't know for sure what or when. Not to mention that long waits with sky-high expectations usually end up in disappointment when you realize that what came out is not what you imagined/wanted. If you keep thinking about that, you will never enjoy any device you own.

Best time to buy a new computer: when you need a new computer.
 
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csurfr

macrumors 68020
Dec 7, 2016
2,310
1,748
Seattle, WA
(current year): don't buy this one. there's gonna be something cooler on next year's model

(next year): don't buy this one. there's gonna be something cooler on next year's model

(next year): don't buy this one. there's gonna be something cooler on next year's model

(next year): don't buy this one. there's gonna be something cooler on next year's model

(next year): don't buy this one. there's gonna be something cooler on next year's model

(next year): don't buy this one. there's gonna be something cooler on next year's model

(next year): don't buy this one. there's gonna be something cooler on next year's model

(next year): don't buy this one. there's gonna be something cooler on next year's model

(next year): don't buy this one. there's gonna be something cooler on next year's model

(next year): don't buy this one. there's gonna be something cooler on next year's model

(next year): don't buy this one. there's gonna be something cooler on next year's model

(next year): don't buy this one. there's gonna be something cooler on next year's model

(next year): don't buy this one. there's gonna be something cooler on next year's model

(next year): don't buy this one. there's gonna be something cooler on next year's model

(next year): don't buy this one. there's gonna be something cooler on next year's model

(next year): don't buy this one. there's gonna be something cooler on next year's model

(next year): don't buy this one. there's gonna be something cooler on next year's model

etc. etc. etc. etc. forever and ever until the heat death of the universe

It's turtles all the way down sir.
 

The Mercurian

macrumors 68020
Mar 17, 2012
2,159
2,442
It was true in 2016 when they were suffering all sorts of issues at launch and had an outdated processor at shipping. The 2017 model is what it should have been in 2016.

But now it's likely all technical issues that are going to be resolved in this design/form factor have been resolved in the new model.

Also, there is not going to be a redesign for several more years, and no rumors or even optimistic people would think there's any chance Apple ditches this design after a year on the market.

Most likely in 2018 you'll get a better processor and graphics chip as is the case every year and maybe a 32GB option for RAM. A better battery is possible but far from likely.

Also, no one knows when the next update is coming. I wouldn't expect it before spring. That's a long time to wait for a good computer, and if you can wait that long you probably don't need a pro machine (or those higher specs) to begin with.

CoffeeLake will pretty much force an update as it offers radically different options such as quad core 13" and hex core 15" machines.
In the meantime - they will be forced to update if sales are bad. So folks don't buy these crappy machines please :)
 

Gregintosh

macrumors 68000
Jan 29, 2008
1,923
553
Chicago
CoffeeLake will pretty much force an update as it offers radically different options such as quad core 13" and hex core 15" machines.
In the meantime - they will be forced to update if sales are bad. So folks don't buy these crappy machines please :)

It's not uncommon for Apple to make design changes inside the unit but we won't be getting a new exterior design. I'd bet money on that. Even internally though these chips may not require much of a redesign anyway.

Sales aren't bad, it seems like they're selling quite well actually, so anyone trying to send a message to Apple would just be depriving themselves for nothing.
 

PBG4 Dude

macrumors 601
Jul 6, 2007
4,360
4,639
Personally, I'd be happy if my '16 model lasts at least four years without feeling slow or needing serious repairs.
I'm debating whether or not to replace my 2012 11" MBA, which turns 5 years old next week, LOL.

My late 2008 MBP and late 2010 MBA are still working as well. If there's one thing Apple laptops have, it's longevity.
 
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The Mercurian

macrumors 68020
Mar 17, 2012
2,159
2,442
It's not uncommon for Apple to make design changes inside the unit but we won't be getting a new exterior design. I'd bet money on that. Even internally though these chips may not require much of a redesign anyway.

Sales aren't bad, it seems like they're selling quite well actually, so anyone trying to send a message to Apple would just be depriving themselves for nothing.

Well I wouldn't consider it depriving myself. I don't see these machines as having any must-have feature compared to my 2014 model and I also get to keep a small heap of cash to myself that I could like buy a car with or go on a long-haul holiday with :)
 
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mixart

macrumors member
Dec 2, 2012
70
14
Well, I like the new Macbook Pro and the only thing I missed is an 32GB option. My Macbook Pro 15" Late 2013 with 16GB is pushing the limet with my LG UltraFine 5K. I'm considering sell my MBP and LG UltraFine 5K, and buy the new iMac 5K, but I like the portability of a notebook. It is just a lot of money for "only" 16GB and I like to keep my next MBP for 5 years at last.
 

sublunar

macrumors 68020
Jun 23, 2007
2,310
1,680
CoffeeLake will pretty much force an update as it offers radically different options such as quad core 13" and hex core 15" machines.
In the meantime - they will be forced to update if sales are bad. So folks don't buy these crappy machines please :)

I think things are starting to line up for a Spring 2018 update. Apple insider points out that High Sierra update notes for eGPU include a Spring 2018 launch out of Beta.

High Sierra ought to be relatively stable by then (by that I mean not a .0 release but a .2 or .3 by the Spring 2018), with Coffee Lake CPUs generally available and it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that a Modular Mac Pro could use eGPU.

The Coffee Lake CPUs for mobile will be the biggest step change for Apple in years. Rather than a 100-200MHz speed bump it's extra cores. Realistically, Apple will want to get these in as soon as possible, and with another 9 months to a possible Rev C Macbook Pro with quad core 13" and hex core 15" options, potentially adding a mobile VEGA GPU to the mix too, they really should be the ideal model to buy.

It should be easy to see 2 versions of the 13" and 15", base models of which would have the usual dual and quad core CPUs respectively, with high end versions adding more cores. Or Apple could go and do BTO versions of both for more money.

At the same stage in the old generation Retina Macbook Pro's development the Late 2013 models had a modest price cut but the real price cuts came with Rev D machines in mid 2014 before a period of stagnation hit delaying the 15" Revision E models of 2015 which were recently superseded by the 2016 Touchbar generation.

For people in the know, then, waiting for Coffee Lake options arriving between Spring and WWDC next year ought to be for the following reasons:

1. Chance to get more cores for same/more money (thanks to AMD Ryzen spooking Intel)
2. Chance for Apple to perfect any lingering engineering issues from Rev A and B.
3. Possibility of slight price cut (a real one, not a dodgy 128Gb base model) to eliminate the Macbook Air.
4. I would say that price cuts to come in October of 2018 with the iPhone/iPad updates as a throwaway remark. Would be a bit too much to offer more cores for cheaper immediately.

Most average punters won't know that Coffee Lake is coming and will happily buy 2017 Macbook Pros. People who need a laptop now will still get a laptop now.

I think we realise that Cannon Lake, which will offer 32Gb LPDDR, is probably too far off to mention at the moment. If Apple do a 32Gb DDR4 laptop it would probably have to be a 17" model because they would require a bigger battery for sure. They have already set out the precedent with the iMac Pro, so would a returning 17" came with 32Gb DDR4 and perhaps a mobile Xeon? There is a 2.2Ghz quad model with hyper threading that uses just 25w TDP but that's a massive sacrifice to go for longer battery life - and it would be slower than the regular models which would be weird.
 

Gregintosh

macrumors 68000
Jan 29, 2008
1,923
553
Chicago
Well I wouldn't consider it depriving myself. I don't see these machines as having any must-have feature compared to my 2014 model and I also get to keep a small heap of cash to myself that I could like buy a car with or go on a long-haul holiday with :)

Which is an interesting point because you're holding out for better specs when clearly you don't need high end specs for whatever it is you do (if a 2014 model is sufficient).

So for you holding out for 32GB and/or even faster chips is purely academic, and there's probably 0 chance you'll ever use that or even see a difference between that and 16GB.

Nothing wrong with that, and I happen to agree that $3,000 is better spent on other things than a machine you won't really use to it's full extent or anywhere close.

There are other people though who need to render 3D designs, work with CAD software, and render high bandwidth movies who actually need and are happy to pay to have a great machine and probably would suffer more if they waited.
 
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The Mercurian

macrumors 68020
Mar 17, 2012
2,159
2,442
Which is an interesting point because you're holding out for better specs when clearly you don't need high end specs for whatever it is you do (if a 2014 model is sufficient).

So for you holding out for 32GB and/or even faster chips is purely academic, and there's probably 0 chance you'll ever use that or even see a difference between that and 16GB.

Nothing wrong with that, and I happen to agree that $3,000 is better spent on other things than a machine you won't really use to it's full extent or anywhere close.

There are other people though who need to render 3D designs, work with CAD software, and render high bandwidth movies who actually need and are happy to pay to have a great machine and probably would suffer more if they waited.

I'm holding out for 32GB. When I need 32GB now I have to use a desktop that I hang out to purely for that reason and is simply depreciating at other times. So mind your assumptions please ;)
I would also like the option of a quad core 13" or hex core 15" but I've only learned that is on the way in the last few days so it as not a factor in my decisions until now.
 

NJPT

macrumors regular
Sep 3, 2011
151
200
At the same stage in the old generation Retina Macbook Pro's development the Late 2013 models had a modest price cut but the real price cuts came with Rev D machines in mid 2014 before a period of stagnation hit delaying the 15" Revision E models of 2015 which were recently superseded by the 2016 Touchbar generation.

Great post, but the price cuts were actually more aggressive in 2013 than 2014.

13" RMBP 128GB $1699 (10/12) -> $1499 (2/13) -> $1299 (10/13) -> $1299 (7/14, 4GB -> 8GB)
13" RMBP 256GB $1999 (10/12)-> $1699 (2/13) -> $1499 (10/13) -> $1499 (7/14)
13" RMP 512GB $1999 (2/13) -> $1799 (10/13) -> $1799 (7/14)
15" RMBP 256GB $2199 (6/12) -> $2199 (2/13) -> $1999 (10/13, lose dGPU) -> $1999 (7/14, 8GB -> 16GB)
15" RMBP 512GB $2799 (6/12) -> $2799 (2/13, 8GB -> 16GB) -> $2599 (10/13) -> $2499 (7/14)
 
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