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JMacHack

Suspended
Mar 16, 2017
1,965
2,424
I think you're overestimating how many people hate the touch bar. I see this on literally every tech forum i'm on. People think because most people on the tech forum for enthusiasts hate/love a certain feature, that the general public feels the same way and it's almost never the case. I'm not saying everyone loves it either, i'm just mainly saying the assumption that it's this widely agreed upon hated feature (like the Butterfly Keyboard is because it's actually outright broken) is an echo-chamber effect and not because everyone actually feels that way. If anything, i'd bet more people feel completely neutral on it rather than actively dislike.
While I'm willing to give credence to your theory, at best I think the touchbar is "meh" and at worst is a net negative to the experience. We've seen Apple backpedal a bit already by introducing a physical escape key.

On a personal note, my issue with the touchbar is that it doesn't really bring more to the table, and sometimes makes the experience worse. The Volume and brightness sliders come to mind immediately, instead of pressing a key on the keyboard, one has to touch the icon, then use the slider. Is it a major hurdle? No, but it doesn't add anything special. The best use I've found for it is using BetterTouchTool to make buttons to run Photoshop scripts, and even then the benefit is dubious over custom keyboard shortcuts.

And, let's not forget the occasional glitchiness. There've been times that the touchbar becomes unresponsive for a second or hiccups. Minor issues yes, but it's a net negative when there's no real benefit to having the darned thing in the first place.

And if you use an external keyboard at all, the whole thing becomes moot. Any muscle memory you have won't transfer over to the built in keyboard, or vice versa for the external one.

Maybe it's not widely hated, but I don't think there's anyone singing its praises anymore.
 

Broko Fankone

macrumors regular
Jun 14, 2020
231
225
BTT actually enhances the experience quite a lot. Maybe you found use for just PS but there are hundreds of supported apps depending on which profiles you use (I currently use aqua touch). There is also an app that turns the touch bar into a MIDI controller, which is nice for music production. The BTT preset I use allows me to swipe anywhere on the bar with 2,3 or 4 fingers and to change sound, screen and keyboard brightness like that. I've gotten really used to that vs tapping and sliding as it is by default. So while I don't think it's an absurdly mind-blowing feature, I wouldn't get a macbook without the touch bar if I still had a choice. Physical F keys are just not as interesting and fun to pay with and you are guaranteed to get them with external keyboard anyway. The Touch bar has a pretty huge potential considering you can script for it yourself.
 

ascender

macrumors 603
Dec 8, 2005
5,022
2,898
The position of the TouchBar never felt entirely logical to me, particularly when it comes to the predictive text feature. On the iPad Pro with Magic Keyboard, the predictive text ones up right at the bottom of the actual screen. So occasionally I will just reach up and touch a word/smiley being suggested without really breaking stride in typing. Its really made me think that what Apple should have done was have some sort of touchbar which was an optional touch overlay at the bottom of the laptop screen itself. Like a touch-sensitive control strip which would mirror the layout of the dock, or be customisable depending on what app you were in.

I know that the screen on their laptops is further away from your keyboard than it is on the iPad Pro, but it just got me thinking that there’s maybe some merit in the idea if it was implemented differently.

With Covid continuing I’ve no desperate need for a laptop as I have an iMac on the desk and can do pretty much everything I need on the iPad Pro, so I’m going to hold out and see what they do as part of the ARM redesign.
 

c0ppo

macrumors 68000
Feb 11, 2013
1,890
3,268
I wouldn’t be so quick to judge. They could “fix it” like they fixed the keyboard.

I larger Touch Bar with Apple Watch/ iOS 14 like widgets / complications would be amazing.

Touch Bar isn't something new. It's just a small but wide touch screen.
If they want to improve it, they can use touch screen like some Windows OEMs do. I really don't like or use touch screens on laptops, but I find them way better than actual touchbar. At least that one doesn't remove function keys and replaces it with a gimmicky touch strip.
 

Aj6658

macrumors newbie
Oct 16, 2019
16
9
God buying a mac this year is gonna be the toughest. Im feeling the age on my 2015 air and the battery lasts a couple hours max.

I have the choice of tried and tested intel macs or beta test the future
 
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Appledoesnotlisten

macrumors 6502a
Dec 2, 2017
505
208
God buying a mac this year is gonna be the toughest. Im feeling the age on my 2015 air and the battery lasts a couple hours max.

I have the choice of tried and tested intel macs or beta test the future
Guys, I need to buy a new 16" mbp ASAP, but can wait if an update is coming.
When do you expect rumors to start leaking IF there is an pupate later this year?
 

Falhófnir

macrumors 603
Aug 19, 2017
6,146
7,001
Guys, I need to buy a new 16" mbp ASAP, but can wait if an update is coming.
When do you expect rumors to start leaking IF there is an pupate later this year?
Well there's a new iMac coming, and that's been well leaked/ rumoured by now, as has the Arm MacBook Pro launching towards the end of the year, so I'd say they're not bothering with 10th gen chips, it's just a matter of when Tiger Lake H is available and whether they will do an update with that. Intel are supposed to be announcing the first chips in September, but the H series are usually later going by past releases. Next year seems more likely than this year to me.
 

Aj6658

macrumors newbie
Oct 16, 2019
16
9
The consensus is that a redesign (i.e 14in) is coming in Q1 2021? Hrrmm i know theres always something better in the future but would be shame to miss out on something like that. Looks like im going to squeeze a bit more run time on my 2015 air
 
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Appledoesnotlisten

macrumors 6502a
Dec 2, 2017
505
208
Well there's a new iMac coming, and that's been well leaked/ rumoured by now, as has the Arm MacBook Pro launching towards the end of the year, so I'd say they're not bothering with 10th gen chips, it's just a matter of when Tiger Lake H is available and whether they will do an update with that. Intel are supposed to be announcing the first chips in September, but the H series are usually later going by past releases. Next year seems more likely than this year to me.
Thanks. I might just buy a 5600 one and return it in 14 days if good rumors come up...
 

Ryox

macrumors 6502a
Oct 27, 2007
547
21
UK
So we think the next 16” MBP refresh will be an ARM device? And as someone who values native bootcamp windows I should get the last intel 2019/20 version now.

I’m looking for this laptop to last me the next 4-5 years so by then arm macs would be much more mature and I’d be more inclined to make the jump then.
 
Last edited:

involuntarheely

macrumors regular
Jul 28, 2019
126
140
So we think the next 16” MBP refresh will be an ARM device? And as someone who values native bootcamp windows I should get the last intel 2019/20 version now.

I’m looking for this laptop to last me the next 4-5 years so by them arm macs would be much more mature and I’d be more inclined to make the jump then.
I think most likely the 16 will be refreshed with Intel first. I think Apple will have to strike a balance between showing that ARM is fully capable (hence releasing a Pro product), and starting with a device that will sell in decent volume (hence possibly <$2000). especially if they have a new 14" design, I think a $1500 14" would be the best to start off showcasing new Apple silicon.
only after that -- assuming consumers will be confident about the new processors -- will Apple release updates to the top of the line laptops, which I guess are those that most demanding professionals use.
there's also an issue of pro software being typically slower to develop so it will take longer before stuff starts working 100% on Apple silicon. so I'd bet on Apple releasing an Intel update of the 16" next.
 
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radiuz

macrumors newbie
Nov 27, 2019
26
13
Hi guys, i am planning to finally upgrade my mid 2012 15" MBP to a 16" but i am not sure if it`s worth waiting for the 2021 refresh or go get the 2020 now?
Is there any leaked info about changes between 2020 and 2021?
 

pttai

macrumors newbie
Nov 30, 2018
25
11
Hi guys, i am planning to finally upgrade my mid 2012 15" MBP to a 16" but i am not sure if it`s worth waiting for the 2021 refresh or go get the 2020 now?
Is there any leaked info about changes between 2020 and 2021?
I am on the same boat now. My devision is to wait until MacOS Big Sure is officially released, then we‘d have more solid information about what comes next.
now just chill, I suppose.
 
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Philpug

macrumors regular
Jul 19, 2011
101
19
Reno, Nv
My wife just ordered a MBA to replace her 2013 MBP and is very excited. I also have a 2013 and like many here, hoping and waiting for a 14". If we don't see it in the 1st quarter, I will suck it up and just get another 13" MBP.
 

Quackington

macrumors 6502a
Aug 12, 2010
546
314
England, UK
God buying a mac this year is gonna be the toughest. Im feeling the age on my 2015 air and the battery lasts a couple hours max.

I have the choice of tried and tested intel macs or beta test the future
The older Airs must've been a lot better in that regard. My 2011 11" i7 may be slow and chugging, but the battery is still fine, 9 years later! I've never had it changed.
 

AlgarveCycling

macrumors newbie
Aug 8, 2020
2
0
Hi All,

Just popped in to ask a quick question if I may please:

I've returned to Apple after 6 years of Dell XPS - had MacBooks for a decade before that - and have a MacBook Pro 13 arriving in a week or so, nice spec, 2.3GHz i7, 32GB, 1TB etc but now seeing all this stuff on my feed about an ARM model imminent.

Am I about to get an 'old' model when I could be getting the newer if I wait a little longer? I'm out of touch with Apple releases but assumed that the refresh earlier this year meant a new one would only be coming out next year, not another this year already.

I'm happy to buy now and I'm not one for waiting 6-12 months in the quest for the next best thing but would be a bit annoyed if I bought now and it was superseded the same month!

Cheers for any replies in advance. :)
 

Broko Fankone

macrumors regular
Jun 14, 2020
231
225
Hi All,

Just popped in to ask a quick question if I may please:

I've returned to Apple after 6 years of Dell XPS - had MacBooks for a decade before that - and have a MacBook Pro 13 arriving in a week or so, nice spec, 2.3GHz i7, 32GB, 1TB etc but now seeing all this stuff on my feed about an ARM model imminent.

Am I about to get an 'old' model when I could be getting the newer if I wait a little longer? I'm out of touch with Apple releases but assumed that the refresh earlier this year meant a new one would only be coming out next year, not another this year already.

I'm happy to buy now and I'm not one for waiting 6-12 months in the quest for the next best thing but would be a bit annoyed if I bought now and it was superseded the same month!

Cheers for any replies in advance. :)

There might be a MBP 13" this year with an ARM cpu. Will it be newer? Yeah, for sure. Will it be better? Very hard to say. ARM can definitely be way, way better, but the potential problems with the hardware and software are yet to be seen on the first generation of apple silicon macbooks.

I would stick with your i7 which is a beast anyway, and wait for a 2nd/3rd gen of ARM macs before buying again. You could get lucky if you go for 1st gen, but you also can get an unreliable experience, it's early to say.
 

AlgarveCycling

macrumors newbie
Aug 8, 2020
2
0
There might be a MBP 13" this year with an ARM cpu. Will it be newer? Yeah, for sure. Will it be better? Very hard to say. ARM can definitely be way, way better, but the potential problems with the hardware and software are yet to be seen on the first generation of apple silicon macbooks.

I would stick with your i7 which is a beast anyway, and wait for a 2nd/3rd gen of ARM macs before buying again. You could get lucky if you go for 1st gen, but you also can get an unreliable experience, it's early to say.

Thanks for your reply. :)

I don't think a faster chip alone would worry me, as you say, the i7 is fast as it is and the XPS I have now is 3 years old and still plenty fast enough - it needs a new battery and the screen is getting ready to pop so it is a business replacement decision.

I'd be more concerned about a facelift, i.e. new screen, that type of thing. If it is was - is - just a chip change then I'd not be concerned at all.
 

Broko Fankone

macrumors regular
Jun 14, 2020
231
225
"Earlier a tweet by tipster komiya confirms that Apple’s 12-inch MacBook will start at $799 ($200 cheaper than the current entry-level MacBook Air). They will also be releasing MacBook Pro 13 running which will cost around $1,099. The laptop will come with its ARM chipsets, Touch Bar, and also a cooling fan."

These are the rumours and we can't really know for sure if there will be additional design and/or hardware changes, so it's not clear. I'd still be wary of jumping on this train immediately and would personally wait and see how they pan out months after initial release. Plus, I think the "big" redesign will probably happen in 2021.

I got a 13" 2020 i5 a couple of months ago and despite some ridiculous issues with peripherals I know it's stable software-wise and has not given me any serious problems (besides USB/dock issues which have viable workarounds). I mean, the peripheral problems are nothing to shrug off and should not exist in such an expensive machine, but at least I can tell you they can be managed. For the ARM macbooks, nobody can say if 100% of the software will be reliable (especially software you might need to do a job with) and we have no idea what kind of hardware bugs it could have.

Even the 10th gen Intels created brand new issues on a line-up that has been constantly updated since 2016, so imagine a complete architectural change.
 

Macadelic

macrumors member
Dec 12, 2019
31
69
[Updated June 22, 2020]

Starting a new "waiting" thread since the 2020 13" MBP is out.

Although I'm on a 2019 base 16", I do miss the 13" form factor when carrying the machine around the house. The smaller 13" was better for taking from the desk to the couch, or from the couch to the bed.

I seriously thought about selling the 16" and going with the 10th-gen Ice Lake 13", but I'm now leaning on waiting for either Tiger Lake or ARM, possible in a revised 14" form factor. It's also unclear whether the Touch Bar is going to remain or whether Apple will admit defeat like they did with the butterfly keyboards.

What do you guys think? What are the "must have" features for a next-generation 13" MBP? I'm thinking:

  • 14" Mini-LED display with thinner bezels in the same chassis as the current 2020 13"
  • Tiger Lake U series chip (assuming MBP stays on Intel) with 4 cores and Gen 12 Xe-based graphics
  • ARM-based Apple CPU/SoC
  • Revised webcam (1080p), Face ID as a nice-to-have
  • 4 Thunderbolt 3 / USB4 ports
  • Removal of Touch Bar / return of function keys
  • Wifi 6
As for folks who want a 16":
  • Mini-LED display
  • Tiger Lake H series chip (assuming MBP stays on Intel) with up to 10 cores and Gen 12 Xe-based graphics
  • ARM-based Apple CPU/SoC
  • AMD RDNA2 dGPU
  • Revised webcam (1080p), Face ID as a nice-to-have
  • 4 Thunderbolt 3 / USB4 ports
  • Removal of Touch Bar / return of function keys
  • Wifi 6
I suspect Apple might do a silent refresh of the 16" for 2020 with Comet Lake, but I could see them going straight to Tiger Lake Apple Silicon since Comet Lake (10th Gen H) is just a speed-bump of Coffee Lake Refresh (9th Gen H).



I definitely would love to see more powerful graphics. I think it's long overdue for the MBP to have a 16GB video memory option.
 

Philpug

macrumors regular
Jul 19, 2011
101
19
Reno, Nv
My wife just ordered a MBA to replace her 2013 MBP and is very excited. I also have a 2013 and like many here, hoping and waiting for a 14". If we don't see it in the 1st quarter, I will suck it up and just get another 13" MBP.
After playing with my wife's MBA, if the next MBP is NOT a 14", I am going with the MBA.
 

Metrosey

macrumors 6502a
Oct 18, 2019
729
905
I think there’s going to be another 16 inch MacBook Pro this year or mid next year. I’m unsure if the 2020/2021 will be the last one. Hopefully the last 16 inch comes with Tigerlake H and MiniLED.
 
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