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....In every single post, from the beginning of this merit about Apple's direction of their hardware, it was all about IPC(Clock-for-clock) direct comparison between Apple A10, and Intel Skylake...CLOCK FOR CLOCK, if you do not understand it properly, Apple A10 is already faster than the fastest CPU architecture that Intel provides.

This has no relevance to the real world and even describing it as "already faster than the fastest CPU...Intel provides" is highly misleading. In fact no ARM or Apple CPU is remotely faster than Intel's latest desktop CPU. They are not faster. They may have equaled Intel's IPC but that has nothing whatsoever to do with which one is faster from a real-world performance standpoint.

Stating performance at different clock rates than the CPUs were designed to run is no different than taking a nitrogen-cooled i7-6700K at 7Ghz and benchmarking it against an ARM/Apple CPU at that same speed. The ARM/Apple CPU won't run at that speed, even cryogenically cooled? Does that mean the Intel CPU is *infinitely* faster? No. It's not a valid test.

There has long been a CPU architectural debate about "Brainiac" vs "Speed Demon" designs. In general Brainiac designs have good IPC but can't be clocked as fast. Speed Demon designs have less IPC but can be clocked faster. Just because a given design achieves a certain IPC doesn't mean it can be up-clocked to match a competing design. You can read about the history here: http://www.lighterra.com/papers/modernmicroprocessors/

Intel spends *double* the R&D of Apple -- every year. After spending a quarter of a trillion dollars on R&D the past 20 years, Intel has figured out how to make a high IPC CPU that can be clocked at over 4Ghz in stock form. Just because ARM or Apple has finally achieved a good IPC metric does not mean they will be able to run those at competitive clock rates. A test running CPUs at half the normal clock rate is not predictive and it's misleading to imply otherwise.
 
Intel spends *double* the R&D of Apple -- every year. After spending a quarter of a trillion dollars on R&D the past 20 years, Intel has figured out how to make a high IPC CPU that can be clocked at over 4Ghz in stock form. Just because ARM or Apple has finally achieved a good IPC metric does not mean they will be able to run those at competitive clock rates. A test running CPUs at half the normal clock rate is not predictive and it's misleading to imply otherwise.

I wanted to point exactly the same thing.
Also is not only ARM moving forward, we don't know how good will be intel's future offerings, but they sure have a huge customer base to serve so I don't think that they 're going to disappoint, they have plenty of time, power and resources to also present stellar products.

And I'm not saying that ARM / Apple is not very good, they are, but they 're in a different category, we cannot compare them to intel's offerings because they have other priorities - optimisations, at least at present time...
 
I love ability to read in context

You cant compare architectures just with an supine downclock test.

1st both machines arent running the same OS, FYI this account heavy.

2nd Skylake Architecture is optimized for 3ghz clock, while you compare with A10 optimized for 2ghz clock, Skylake is designed to handle a wider disparity with memory speed (you never mention the ram speed at the test system), if you have DDR4 @ 2 GHZ means skylae has to be ready to deal with about 6 wait states before receive the first byte, while the A10 will only wait 4 states, if you underclock the Skaylake it still waits for 6 states, its designed for it.

3rd as previously mentioned, no specification on Memory.

All the comparision pointing the A10 over skylake are pure marketing bull ****.

read: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/...clock-frequencies-of-an-arm-and-and-x86-proce

further this test discards Intel being optimized for SMT and multi-thread, on multi-thread even processors as the Snapdragon 820 get close the A10.

All we love and admire Apple, but you cant compare Apple's cpu expertise with Intel's 50 year leading the business.

Previously I criticized Intel since x86 architecture is close to an end, but latest news on Intel planning to break x86 legacy in future products tells me they know more on that than me.

As I said, maybe in 2 two year ARM reaches x86 performance, not now, not next year not even driven by Apple
 
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Mago, I gave up with arguing: just 2 things. You forget about the fact that you would be correct if 6700K, Skylake CPu would be the only CPU that Intel makes. 6700T is exactly the same CPU as 6700K, but with 30% lower core clocks(4 GHz vs 2.8 GHz). If you want to design, and sell, multiple CPUs in multiple markets you have to optimize the architecture, for the process. Thats what is called scalability of the design. Whats more, 6700K can be put into the same thermal envelope as 6700T, through EFI, and it will behave exactly the same way, because they both share uarch. design and share process. Thats for CPU designs, from engineering perspective.

You are saying that you cannot compare two different architectures, because they do not share OS, memory configs, you are not in control of what both OS'es are using in the background(memory performance).

In theory yes, but if that is the case the OS that has advantage here is the Windows 10 with Intel platform! And that paints even worse picture for your arguments. Want proofs? Look at memory performance, in that very table that has been posted.

All other variables that are accounting for the benchmark, are just execution of code on the CPU, and testing its capabilities: uOP caches, throughput of the cores(Floating Point and Integer), load, store, dispatching the commands, this is what defines single thread performance of any CPU core(apart from few other things that I have not mentioned here).

We have to agree to disagree in the end.
 
It's been over 1000 days with no update and no mention. It's already dead; resurrection is unlikely.

I feel like people have been saying "if it doesn't get updated in xyz" for the past year and a half. We've inevitably hit an arbitrary "deadline" and the xyz gets moved up.

Further, if it does some how get resurrected, would buying it even be a wise decision? Why "sign up" to be put into this kind of cycle again? All evidence strongly suggests Apple has no commitment to the headless workstation market. Why invest is a product stream that the creators themselves don't truly care about?

I'm actually hoping they bring back the tower in a new form, instead of just updating the trash can, though the latter is more probable.

Guess it's because these people are not fully prepared to give up on Apple (or should I say, OS X) yet, and some of us hope that Apple finally wakes up and realise that neglecting its pro users is not the right move in the long run.
 
It seems clear that Apple has transitioned from being interested/taking pride in a professional community partnership to not caring at all. Examples:

1) Quicktime
2) FCP
3) the new Powerbook "Pro"
4) the 2013 Mac "pro"
5) no new Mac pro since the 2013 model

I would love to be wrong. I *really* hope Apple surprises us soon.

I love Apple. I'll give them another year or two. But my 4K video editing and interest in VR can't wait on them forever. I've maxed out my 2012 Mac pro and that will last me another year or two. After that, I'm starting to ready myself to need to learn a new OS. Damn it.
 
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It seems clear that Apple has transitioned from being interested/taking pride in a professional community partnership to not caring at all. Examples:

1) Quicktime
2) FCP
3) the new Powerbook "Pro"
4) the 2013 Mac "pro"
5) no new Mac pro since the 2013 model

I would love to be wrong. I *really* hope Apple surprises us soon.

I love Apple. I'll give them another year or two. But my 4K video editing and interest in VR can't wait on them forever. I've maxed out my 2012 Mac pro and that will last me another year or two. After that, I'm starting to ready myself to need to learn a new OS. Damn it.
Actually, fcpx got better with latest update. I like the new ui.
 
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Apple has no problem redefining the "Pro" moniker on our behalf, it won't surprise me for them to stick "desktop class" onto their future ARM, regardless of its performance relative to the rest of the industry. Before the nMP, nobody would dare to describe a tube without PCI slots a "workstation" either.
 
But my 4K video editing and interest in VR can't wait on them forever. I've maxed out my 2012 Mac pro and that will last me another year or two. After that, I'm starting to ready myself to need to learn a new OS. Damn it.

Oculus Rift works on maxed out Mac Pro 4,1/5,1 (with a beefy Maxwell card) on Windows 10. You don't have to wait.
 
You can also consider watching, "Plan 9 From Cupertino", "Mac War Z", "Last Mac On Earth", "The Omega Mac" and a personal favorite "Abbott And Costello Meet Cookenstein".:D

"Schindler's Mac Pro Wish List"
"Saving Private Ryan's Mac Pro"
"Twelve Angry Mac Pro Users"
"Mac Independence Day"

And if anyone is still thinking a new Mac Pro is ever coming, I suggest watching "Deja Vu" because we've all been there before.
 
And if anyone is still thinking a new Mac Pro is ever coming, I suggest watching "Deja Vu" because we've all been there before.
Because of ''Deja Vu'' factor, we still hope that Apple surprises us all.
Do you remember dear Steve with ''One more thing...''?:rolleyes:
 
"Schindler's Mac Pro Wish List"
"Saving Private Ryan's Mac Pro"
"Twelve Angry Mac Pro Users"
"Mac Independence Day"

And if anyone is still thinking a new Mac Pro is ever coming, I suggest watching "Deja Vu" because we've all been there before.
Expect "A Fistful of Dollars" if anything is released.

(By the way, a stack of a thousand $10 bills is about what most people could grab in one hand, which is about what a maxed MP6,1 costs.)
 
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Mago, I gave up with arguing: just 2 things.
:D You preface more arguments with "I gave up arguing"? Precious.

The other amusing thing is that you are misusing the term "IPC" throughout this current thread.

IPC is not about application performance - but you're comparing global application performance vs. clock rate.

Not a bad thing to look at global performance, but IPC is basically the number of instructions that the CPU can retire per clock cycle. It is not application performance to clock

From the link above: "When comparing different instruction sets, a simpler instruction set may lead to a higher IPC figure than an implementation of a more complex instruction set using the same chip technology; however, the more complex instruction set may be able to achieve more useful work with fewer instructions."

An interesting question about true IPC for x64 processors is whether to measure the x64 instructions per clock, or the µOps per clock. When looking at something like an AVX2 instruction doing SIMD arithmetic on 256 bit registers - the IPC on x64 or µOps might go down even as the application performance (what you are mistakenly calling IPC) will go up. (For some tests, Geekbench says which SIMD extensions they're using - for others no info.)

By the way, what happened to last month's @koyoot who framed every discussion in terms of FLOPs per watt? This month's @koyoot is hawking a misinterpreted version of IPC.
 
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"Schindler's Mac Pro Wish List"
"Saving Private Ryan's Mac Pro"
"Twelve Angry Mac Pro Users"
"Mac Independence Day"

And if anyone is still thinking a new Mac Pro is ever coming, I suggest watching "Deja Vu" because we've all been there before.
How about "Apple, for ****'s sake, start innovating again you ****ing *******s or i'm leaving you"
 
It's been over 1000 days with no update and no mention. It's already dead; resurrection is unlikely.

I feel like people have been saying "if it doesn't get updated in xyz" for the past year and a half. We've inevitably hit an arbitrary "deadline" and the xyz gets moved up.

Further, if it does some how get resurrected, would buying it even be a wise decision? Why "sign up" to be put into this kind of cycle again? All evidence strongly suggests Apple has no commitment to the headless workstation market. Why invest is a product stream that the creators themselves don't truly care about?

I've been saying this was inevitable since Yosemite. Apple is not invested in manufacturing powerful machines anymore, they're invested in selling you on a 'integrated' iLife where your computer, phone, tablet, and god forbid, your watch are best friends.

When you land on Apple's page the eye candy goes - Iphone->Watch->Macbook. Each OS has become more and more integrated with iOS and AFAIC Macs are dying. Even if they put out a new Mac Pro I suspect it will be the last generation, and in 5 years time Apple will offer phones, tablets, watches and some other kind of wearable nonsense. Maybe Macbooks but I don't see much beyond that...

I personally suspect the Mac Pro will be replaced by the iMac and that's about as good as it gets from here out... Look at the latest Mac Mini and compare it to a 2012 Quad core server... Power using is not on their radar anymore, and it's no surprise to me...
 
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(Grabs popcorn)

Sorry I was late to the movie title segment of this thread! :(
SUMMER 06.png
 
I'm hoping they do a complete revamp of the mac pro and make it more like a cube version of the mini:
- 6 to 20+ core Xeon options
- a single GPU BUT
- modular extentions
that work both for the mac mini and the mac pro including extra external graphic modules, HDD/SSD and optical drive. Actually, what HP just did with the Slice but beefed up.

Imagine such a modular Mac Pro tower with 20+ cores, 3 extra external GPU's, an optical drive and a few additional SSD's...

If HP can do it, why can't Apple?
 
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If HP can do it, why can't Apple?
Because HP is struggling so they are willing to take risks, try new things, push the envelope, etc. Apple has become a fat cat, lazy, slow and very, very comfortable raking in easy money. The minute the cash stops flowing in they'll wake up. Hopefully by then it won't be too late.

PS. Cook & co need to go. Now!
 
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