Current state doesnt really matter. Intel sells TB3 controllers, even to AMD. AMD also offering customized SOCs (not really needed but nice with integrated controllers) so if Apple wanted to they could get components for an AMD cpu and gpu powered Mac Pro and iMac WITH TB3. And AMD have Xconnect so they are not completely ignoring TB3.
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MP 7,1 Waiting for Mac Pro 7,1 A1991 (no more)
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Intel doesn´t allow other companies to use the alpine ridge controller. So no Thunderbolt 3 for AMD.
And XConnect is only for using an external AMD GPU over Intel´s Thunderbolt...(In this case Intel and AMD are partners)
I don´t think Intel will sell the Controller to Apple without using their CPUs...
And i don´t know any amd mobo, which can use a intel controller chip.
And XConnect is only for using an external AMD GPU over Intel´s Thunderbolt...(In this case Intel and AMD are partners)
I don´t think Intel will sell the Controller to Apple without using their CPUs...
And i don´t know any amd mobo, which can use a intel controller chip.
Not true, Intel have been selling TB controllers ever since TB1 (including AR/TB3), how else do you suggest it to work? Other companies ship their products to Intel, Intel then put their controllers onto the products, ship them back to the OEM:s who then chip them out to customers? Obviously not, they buy the controllers from Intel, put them on their products and ship them. OEM:s (and including AMD and AMD motherboard manufacturers) are not banned by Intel from using TB controllers. The most likely thing that have stopped AMD and AMD OEM:s from implementing TB is the high licensing/royalty cost from them doing so and maybe they for some reason have invested in a competing product instead, either way, AMD being banned from TB products is not one of the reasons. There where several AMD AM3+ motherboards that had TB_HEADER on the motherboard that supported TB add-in cards but where not widely used since the support and devices with TB1 was abysmal (at the time only Apple laptops had TB and there where almost no peripherals), but the point is, TB is available for AMD products, if they want to implement it, also Jason Megit from AMD hinted about AMD laptops with TB3 in the future but they are obviously still under NDA so not much information given. Not an issue for Apple though...
Did you forget to read my append? "so they are not completely ignoring TB3", suggesting that there is a possibility for fully integrated TB products in the future, maybe Xconnect in the future will be TB3 + AMD:s own propriety protocol similar to TB, who knows.
There is no such sales ban implemented by Intel currently so...
You seem to be stuck in present without the ability to look into the future so this is pointless anyway, have a good day.
One of the things that Business deal about licensing graphics IP from AMD to Intel is about Thunderbolt technology.
AMD for upcoming Ryzen platform has not allowed their partners to use it, because of increased cost of MoBos with it(it adds around 25$ of cost to each motherboard), and they wanted to keep the prices of MoBos as low as possible(cheapest B350 will cost as low as 59USD).
The deal about licensing IP also creates space for AMD to use Intel fabs in future, for GPUs, and APUs.
It does not mean however we will ever see a MoBo with TB3. But nothing stops Apple from using AMD Naples in MP and Alpine Ridge controller.
AMD for upcoming Ryzen platform has not allowed their partners to use it, because of increased cost of MoBos with it(it adds around 25$ of cost to each motherboard), and they wanted to keep the prices of MoBos as low as possible(cheapest B350 will cost as low as 59USD).
The deal about licensing IP also creates space for AMD to use Intel fabs in future, for GPUs, and APUs.
It does not mean however we will ever see a MoBo with TB3. But nothing stops Apple from using AMD Naples in MP and Alpine Ridge controller.
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We will see... I don´t think, that Intel will free TB3 and give it away. There is no AMD Hardware, which supports TB3 and Intel wants to keep their property. Intels partnership with AMD will replace the one with NVidia and its all about using technology patents for their IGP Chips. Intel don´t want to be sued using patents in their graphic chips. Thats why there was the deal with nvidia and in the future with amd. Nvidia has no interest to continue the deal with intel. So they are forced to find a new partner. You will never see an AMD igp in an intel processor... Its all about patents.
But Intel will hold their patents on TB3... Maybe in the future, there is a official licence to other companies like AMD, but for now Intel has the key and the door is locked.
Its like the theory; Apple should buy AMD (They have the money)... The problem... If Apple buys AMD, the X86 Licences are lost and without X86, there will be no AMD CPUs anymore....
I am excited, what Apple will bring in the Pro Market. Fact is, that the nMP is old (XeonE5v2,Tb2, 2012 gpus, Usb3) and slow. For me the last chance for Apple is this years´s WWDC. I want a Mac Pro with Xeon E5v4, DDR4 Ram, TB3 and powerful Gpus.... I hope, that this will happen....
To be honest, i hope AMD will never be a choice for a MacPro. I want a powerful Workstation with ECC Ram, and WS GPUs.... That was and is the Mac Pro. Its not a machine with Consumer Parts....
There is the Mac Mini for that.... Maybe Apple will use a new concept on this machine....
ok this will never happen. Mac mini is dead.... Especially the mini has so much potential in the consumer world, but Apple has no interest in the Desktop at all... no mp no mini... only notebooks and imacs... for me personally; its a shame
But Intel will hold their patents on TB3... Maybe in the future, there is a official licence to other companies like AMD, but for now Intel has the key and the door is locked.
Its like the theory; Apple should buy AMD (They have the money)... The problem... If Apple buys AMD, the X86 Licences are lost and without X86, there will be no AMD CPUs anymore....
I am excited, what Apple will bring in the Pro Market. Fact is, that the nMP is old (XeonE5v2,Tb2, 2012 gpus, Usb3) and slow. For me the last chance for Apple is this years´s WWDC. I want a Mac Pro with Xeon E5v4, DDR4 Ram, TB3 and powerful Gpus.... I hope, that this will happen....
To be honest, i hope AMD will never be a choice for a MacPro. I want a powerful Workstation with ECC Ram, and WS GPUs.... That was and is the Mac Pro. Its not a machine with Consumer Parts....
There is the Mac Mini for that.... Maybe Apple will use a new concept on this machine....
ok this will never happen. Mac mini is dead.... Especially the mini has so much potential in the consumer world, but Apple has no interest in the Desktop at all... no mp no mini... only notebooks and imacs... for me personally; its a shame
I have never read on this forum a post that had more false information. Its not Nvidia who has no interest in partnership with Intel. Its Intel who is pissed on Nvidia, and went to AMD.
Intel is ALREADY working on MCM package and first Intel CPU with AMD technology we will see in the end of 2017 year.
The deal between Intel and AMD allows AMD to freely use Thunderbolt 3 controller on their Motherboard, and what is more IT ALLOWS AMD TO USE INTEL FABS FOR THEIR UPCOMING HARDWARE. Navi GPUs in 2019 are first that can come from Intel fabs.
There is absolutely NOTHING that stops AMD, Apple, Nvidia from using Thunderbolt 3, controller. Alpine Ridge costs between 6-8$, but the overall reengineering cost would add to each motherboard 20-25$ price tag.
Why would you not want AMD in Mac Pro? Currently every benchmark shows that Ryzen CPUs in 90% of workloads are at least on Haswell level, but can clock higher, and are more efficient. What is more, AMD's implementation of Multithreading appears to be better than Intel's!
Thirdly. If you want powerful workstation with ECC RAM, if you have AMD CPU you have free ECC, because there is no need for separate chipset, all functionality and support is within the CPU. If you have AM4 motherboard, you are free to use ECC, with ANY Ryzen CPU, even the cheapest ones. Thirdly, it already supports 2666 MHz, which will only be tied with Skylake CPUs, in August of this year. Overall IPC difference between Zen and Skylake is 2%. But AMD is Cheaper. MUCH cheaper.
They are not rumors. They are leaked benchmarks from Engineering Samples of Ryzen CPUs.
Right, but engineering samples are not always made equally. As I said, wait until actual benchmarks from production chips come out. I'd place more faith in typical enthusiasts publishing their findings and not synthetic tests.
Have you even thought about possibility that AMD is deliberately sandbagging the performance of the Eng Samples?
Quite a lot have been discovered by community within last 4 hours about the Eng samples, that I did not published yet...
This is last post about the CPUs, in this thread. For constructive discussion I urge to come to Zen thread on this forum.
Let this give you a hint about the CPUs, from enthusiast perspective:
https://twitter.com/VideoCardz/status/832583990284517381
That would be true of any semiconductor company. It's nothing new. All ES chips will underperform. That is a given. But production can either remain the same, be marginally better or be amazing. Sometimes people find out that it's terrible.Have you even thought about possibility that AMD is deliberately sandbagging the performance of the Eng Samples?
Quite a lot have been discovered by community within last 4 hours about the Eng samples, that I did not published yet...
And it's likely I've seen what you've seen. I've spent the last few hours reading and looking at photos of ES benches. It really is nothing new compared to past releases, be it from Intel or AMD. I've been through this process since the late 90s.
Lets get back to thread. Im wondering, if Apple decides to release Mac Pro in may, that may indicate only two possibilities: Either the CPUs are still Intel, but they are Broadwell-E CPUs. Or Apple goes to AMD and gets the Naples, which will come out in Q2.
As for GPUs - its obvious who will they pick as the vendor: AMD. Three possibilities: Polaris 10, Polaris 10XT2, or full Vega lineup. If the form factor is tuned, and reuires slightly smaller GPUs - Vega will be the go-to package.
You know what would completely push me off, from Mac Pro? Using AMD Fiji(FuryX, Fury, R9 Nano) chips, by Apple in MP.
As for GPUs - its obvious who will they pick as the vendor: AMD. Three possibilities: Polaris 10, Polaris 10XT2, or full Vega lineup. If the form factor is tuned, and reuires slightly smaller GPUs - Vega will be the go-to package.
You know what would completely push me off, from Mac Pro? Using AMD Fiji(FuryX, Fury, R9 Nano) chips, by Apple in MP.
Don't care what they put in it GPU wise as long as they, (or the OEMs), provide choice. Oh and dual drives please or you can keep it.
Well, for sure you will have the same choice as you have with current MP. Buying base Radeon Pro, middle ground Radeon Pro, or high-end Radeon Pro GPU.
.There should be 6 choices as there seem to be two real divisions. Good, better, best from AMD and the same from Nvidia.Well, for sure you will have the same choice as you have with current MP. Buying base Radeon Pro, middle ground Radeon Pro, or high-end Radeon Pro GPU.
@@koyoot
If this deal between Intel and AMD contains the licence for TB3 technology, then its great for AMD. They can use TB3 on their MOBO and chipsets... I hope so for AMD...
But Amd is not on the workstation market. I recently bought a WS with dual 12 Core Xeons as slave machine for my MP.
Does AMDs Ryzen support DP or MP... or more than 8 cores...
My personal thought is, that Apple will bring a machine with Xeon E5v4 up to 22 Cores (Xeon E5-2699v4) DDR4 ECC, Thunderbolt 3, USB3.1 and two AMD Polaris WS Cards (WX 7100, cause Vega isn´t here)...
in tube form. I think, this is realistic.... but on the other side... Apple could discontinue the Macpro, cause there is no need for a machine like this in Apples lineup...
My dream would be a tower with Dual Processor support and PCIe Slots and m2 nvme slots for fast ssds with the choice to choose between the fast NVidia 10XX and Quadro P series and the slow AMD RX4xx or WX7100...
But this will never happen, NEVER... Its a wonder, when Apple releases new Mac pro anyway....
If this deal between Intel and AMD contains the licence for TB3 technology, then its great for AMD. They can use TB3 on their MOBO and chipsets... I hope so for AMD...
But Amd is not on the workstation market. I recently bought a WS with dual 12 Core Xeons as slave machine for my MP.
Does AMDs Ryzen support DP or MP... or more than 8 cores...
My personal thought is, that Apple will bring a machine with Xeon E5v4 up to 22 Cores (Xeon E5-2699v4) DDR4 ECC, Thunderbolt 3, USB3.1 and two AMD Polaris WS Cards (WX 7100, cause Vega isn´t here)...
in tube form. I think, this is realistic.... but on the other side... Apple could discontinue the Macpro, cause there is no need for a machine like this in Apples lineup...
My dream would be a tower with Dual Processor support and PCIe Slots and m2 nvme slots for fast ssds with the choice to choose between the fast NVidia 10XX and Quadro P series and the slow AMD RX4xx or WX7100...
But this will never happen, NEVER... Its a wonder, when Apple releases new Mac pro anyway....
AMD WAS not on server market. Right now they are preparing Naples, Server chip, that is made from up to 4 Ryzen dies, on MCM. So maximum setup you will have 32Core/64Thread, with 8 channel memory, and 128 PCIe 3.0 Lanes.@@koyoot
If this deal between Intel and AMD contains the licence for TB3 technology, then its great for AMD. They can use TB3 on their MOBO and chipsets... I hope so for AMD...
But Amd is not on the workstation market. I recently bought a WS with dual 12 Core Xeons as slave machine for my MP.
Does AMDs Ryzen support DP or MP... or more than 8 cores...
My personal thought is, that Apple will bring a machine with Xeon E5v4 up to 22 Cores (Xeon E5-2699v4) DDR4 ECC, Thunderbolt 3, USB3.1 and two AMD Polaris WS Cards (WX 7100, cause Vega isn´t here)...
in tube form. I think, this is realistic.... but on the other side... Apple could discontinue the Macpro, cause there is no need for a machine like this in Apples lineup...
My dream would be a tower with Dual Processor support and PCIe Slots and m2 nvme slots for fast ssds with the choice to choose between the fast NVidia 10XX and Quadro P series and the slow AMD RX4xx or WX7100...
But this will never happen, NEVER... Its a wonder, when Apple releases new Mac pro anyway....
For Q3 is slated Server APU with 16C/32T, 16 GB's of HBM2 on package, and 4096 GCN core Vega GPU, all packed into 180W TDP package. Support for quad channel memory, and 64 PCIe 3.0 lanes.
Like I have said: previous rumor coming from WTFTech is that there will be new Mac Pro by May 2017, and it will feature Vega GPU. Also, Naples is slated for Q2 release - so it would fit here perfectly. But you know, its WTFTech, and they are desperate for clicks, and will do everything to get people to their site.
You See TB3 as an tipical Apple invention patented by Apple, Intel invented and patented TB technology but not to take away AMD and ARM from it, TB is another independent business for intel, actually they want TB3 to be as widely adopted as possible, even I've read they offered it to be installed on next iPad and on android phones (maybe Samsung will offer TB3 in the next Galaxy S8 or Note 8).
Intel Intellectual Property practice have never to take away competitors to build technological ghettos ala Apple, but to offer products that has to be as popular as possible.
Intel only business rival maybe with the USB group, USB dont generate royalties for intel, as Thunderbolt can do.
Its rumoured that Apple will introduce an iMac / Mac mini with 4 core AMD Rizen/Polaris APU later this year, current Ryzen offering dont Match the Mac Pro needs, the 8c.16t model dont have ECC ram, and the models with 16c/32t aren meant for workstations, even are slow in fp64 compute by 2-3 x factor, I dont believe no body wil offer a serious workstation on current Ryzen cpus.
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@@koyoot
The last news about Vega, ive read was, that this gpus will come in June or later...
Everything, you write, sounds really great and i hope AMD have success with their new CPUs...
Its Apples turn now to bring a new great Mac Pro... We will see, what Apple will use for their new machine.
The question still remains... Will Apple ever ever EVER update the Macpro???? I hope so and i am excited to see a new
revision of the beloved MPro....
The last news about Vega, ive read was, that this gpus will come in June or later...
Everything, you write, sounds really great and i hope AMD have success with their new CPUs...
Its Apples turn now to bring a new great Mac Pro... We will see, what Apple will use for their new machine.
The question still remains... Will Apple ever ever EVER update the Macpro???? I hope so and i am excited to see a new
revision of the beloved MPro....
June or later? Where did you get that? AMD promised GPUs in H1 2017, and they are on track to do so. On 28Th Feb. there is AMD event at GDC scheduled called Capsaicin. Will they launch them at that event? We don't know, but Roy Taylor from AMD yesterday have touted that there will be lots of surprises from him on that event, regarding GPUs.
We can bet that AMD will share a lot of information about Vega architecture.
I would also personally expect that AMD will launch their own gaming platform: Project Quantum is not dead. And will combine power of Ryzen+Vega.
ALL Ryzen CPUs have support for ECC. Its part of memory controller in the CPU...
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The capsaicin & cream event in feb is only for the Ryzen CPUs. I doubt, that vega is a topic.... speculations say, that vega is not ready, but I think,that there will be a intesive preview on the event. Maybe AMD gives us a concrete release date for the first consumer Vega Cards. I am interested in the WS version... I hope for a release this year. (for the Mac Pro)
I am interested, how Vega conpetes with NVidia Pascal, especially in the Workstation Versions of Pascal and Vega....
I am interested, how Vega conpetes with NVidia Pascal, especially in the Workstation Versions of Pascal and Vega....
https://twitter.com/sehurlburt/status/832475826025213952
Is it CPU related event, or GPU, and Game Developers attending the event?
Speculations.
What If I told you that 80% of AMD software engineers are working on Vega drivers, to get it ready for release? Is this speculation? If that is the case, how far are we from release?