Mac line up seems disjointed overall after this event. The MacBook Air now occupies essentially the same price points (slightly low actually) as the MacBook with only small differences in size and slightly more functionality. I can't imagine who in the world is buying a MacBook after this. Then the Mac Mini with 4 core base models and 6 core top end models, which appear to be the desktop class processors, are poised to be faster than the iMacs. Granted the iMacs have those wonderful screens, but you have to think the 21 inch iMacs look like really bad buys right now.
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MP 7,1 Waiting for Mac Pro 7,1 A1991 (no more)
- Thread starter Mago
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This exactly. There’s no point in taking that long, even if it’s a redesign. The only reason could be the switch to arm, it takes them time to get a desktop CPU ready. The Mac Mini update speaks for itself. No redesign either, the usual “stick some new stuff in there to make them shut up”. Once that new Mac Pro is announced, I bet they’ll introduce a redesign of the Mac Mini as well.
Agreed .
I'm also getting concerned that Apple might start to believe their own gospel, that tablets can be serious tools and content creators .
That dubious Photoshop presentation had one clear message to the industry - don't count on Apple to cater to professionals . At least that's how it will be percieved, with no word on MPs and the silly expensive Minis ( in usable configuration ) .
Plus - For Apple, no real reason to hurry.
Wall Street sets the price points now and a Mac Pro worth its name would be $5K+ to stay in line with the iMac line. Have you noticed the total lack of interest in iMac Pros at Apple stores... That alone discourages marketing from paying any kind of attention to the high end lines anymore...simply no reason to expend energy when the profit margins and sales volumes of smaller devices is so lucrative. Also, did you notice how Timmy keeps on touting iPads as laptop/desktop replacements..."faster" than 92% of laptops out there...blah blah. This company no longer caters to enthusiasts folks...
Agreed to this. And I dont think the pro userbased ever asked first and foremost for a `new innovating design`, we, or at least most people I know, just want a mac pro ala the classic mac pro with the new cpus and other internals with loads of in/outs. Apple could just put everything into an cmp and be done with it.
well they can have an mac pro with an lower starting point.
Say 256-512 GB ssd base
16-48 GB base ram (cpu will drive # of channels) (base fill all channels)
1 video card (mid range base)
Disappointed but no surprised, no NavI GPU=>No iMac Nor a Mac pro, Apple's Mac division becoming the poor ugly cousin at Apple's family.
Coming back to sodimm is both good and bsd news, good as Apple's at last realized soldiered ram and storage don't pay, and bad news as also means they will be forcedly manufacturing simplified motherboards (and very expensive products)
4200$ for 2tb/64gb 6 core i7 with 10gb Eth isn't what I name a bargain (and no dGPU).
Coming back to sodimm is both good and bsd news, good as Apple's at last realized soldiered ram and storage don't pay, and bad news as also means they will be forcedly manufacturing simplified motherboards (and very expensive products)
4200$ for 2tb/64gb 6 core i7 with 10gb Eth isn't what I name a bargain (and no dGPU).
Here is all the information one needs to know for their next Mac Pro upgrade:
https://www8.hp.com/us/en/workstati...12139_us/en/psg/ws_overview/products/desktops
https://www8.hp.com/us/en/workstati...12139_us/en/psg/ws_overview/products/desktops
Yes, they again pushed on that narrative. And doing so when tablet sales have plummeted off of highs made several years ago (with a bit of a dead cat bounce back up, but nothing substantial) would seem a poor choice in the current market.
I know. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills commenting on how absurd it is that an $800 computer ships with a 128GB SSD boot drive and then getting push back. And to bump that to 256 costs $200. The actual memory in those things is dirt ***** cheap now and super small. This is a total money grab.
I've taken a different tactic and suggested that if Apple doesn't want to produce pro hardware, then consider open sourcing the OS and letting other companies produce hardware for it. I suspect that this suggestion will be summarily ignored, but at least I said it.
If a mac pro isn't high-end right out of the gate (base configuration) then the entire desktop line becomes very fuzzy.
We need to face the fact that Apple no longer believes in building expandable machines. Just look at how closed the iMacs
have become, any third party upgrades and servicing strongly discouraged and warranty voiding...
I believe the mac pro, as we know and love it, is dead.
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Many of us have suggested the same. Unfortunately it's just not in their DNA...
That is more 'glue' on top than a solution for a flat memory space. People have had MPI to have seperate computers act as a single computer at the application level before. I'm familar wit hthe concen't, but if have signficantly different computattion rates between CPU, GPU , etc instances and data traffic that stress the communications channel then not going to get smooth high frame rates. As a "render this and look at it" system that is fine. As an interactive possible 60-120MHz refresh system... not so much.
.
As the event should it was more focus about other makers/creators using Apple products than in Apple creating the products.
It is really the 'retina MacBook Air' that got introduced. Like the retina introduction in the MBP space the non retina model didn't disappear. So it is even more crowed. It think this is more "left over" old models in the line up than clean price points.
MBA ( classic). Lowest price point in Mac laptop space . U series processor.
retina MBA -- new two TB ports and lighter with modern T2 but new Y-series processor at up-TDP power . (back sliding on processor)
function key MBP 13 (Retina) -- two TBv2 older U series processor and a removable SSD.
MacBook -- one port wonder on older Y-series
I suspect Apple missing some 'wonder power improvement' 10nm Y and U series that they could have used to close the gaps there. That MacBook model i'd bet is just a stop gap until either Intel/AMD come up with something better viable or Apple stuffs an A14X in there and renames it iBook. Those retina screens are throwing off power and cost. So it gets more muddled.
The Mac Mini match up on x86 cores with the iMac but not on GPUs. There is only one GPU instance across the whole Mini line up. It is far more than just the screens that is different. It is a head scratcher though how Apple could just simply 'speed bump' the iMacs also. However, their "can't walk and chew gum at the same time" track record makes that not very surprising at all. Those Mini's are the exact same dimensions as the older Minis for last several iterations. Whether that cooling system works or not is something to be evaluated ( I suspect fully spec'd out with full 10GbE and top CPU and active Thunderbolt that the iMac might be in a better thermal zone. ). If trying to drive 4K (and up) displays there is a significant gap. Headless mini's racked in a co-location space that isn't a big issue. ~2K displays then the retina iMacs are overkill. ( that highly kneecapped 21.5" with old MBA processors is toast though. But it was problematical performance before. ).
However, Mini and MBA both getting T2 should pretty much lock in some T-series for the next Mac Pro. Apple killed off HDDs in the mini ( sacrificing price increase for dumping HDDs). Something like 3-4 HDDs inside the next Mac Pro there is nothing here point to that at all. Apple still needs to have more than one internal drive though. However, probably not going to be using some 2006 'playbook' when evaluating options.
Anyone going to replace their Mac Pro with the new mini? The little thing is actually quite impressive. But it's about $2000 in a decent configuration and if you add the new Blackmagic eGPU Pro that makes it about $3200. That's probably close to the 2019 Mac Pro base price so I'll wait for that still. I imagine it could still take inexpensive pulled server ram. The Mac mini so-dimms are quite expensive.
The new Mac Mini is yet another hole in this 'theory'. The Mac Mini went from soldered RAM back to so-DIMMs. If no upgrades was absolute rigid dogma how did that happen? Maybe because it isn't rigid dogma.
It is still going to be hard to upgrade ( thee marketing tech specs page says that memory is 'configurable' ) but the Mini has had disassembly hurdles before. And yes this is a 'ballon squeeze' move. The SSD is now soldered along with T2. ( they kept the exact same case dimensions so really couldn't solder both and keep the same volume. ). This new Mini has design trade-offs. The next Mac Pro will probably have design trade-offs too. Hopefully Apple is iterating from the MP 2009 dimensions and not rigidly sticking to the 2013 ones. If they stick to literal desktop and tighter coupling to MP 2013 dimension the trade-offs will break in a relatively predictable way. (i.e., not starting with "upgrade" end points but with a volume constraint they give themselves. )
However, just as they came back to so-DIMMs they could just as easily come back to some limited number of open, empty PCI-e slots if the allotted volume can afford that.
But their is an even higher likelihood that will have a T-series boot SSD there now. The Mini's dumped HDDs completely. Two more of the lower end Macs got T2 chips. T-series is coming to the whole Mac line up (which is driven in large part by security features ).
Funny. The "new" BlackMagic eGPU device along with the new MacMini could be classified as a "Modular MacPro"
https://www.apple.com/mac-mini/
https://www.apple.com/mac-mini/
Buy any other decent eGPU setup and save cash, look at eGPU.io for all the information needed. The Mantiz Venus is only $349 and then grab a VEGA 56 for around $400.Funny. The "new" BlackMagic eGPU device along with the new MacMini could be classified as a "Modular MacPro"
https://www.apple.com/mac-mini/
"Couldn't possibly" is a bit of an overstatement. However, I'd hope the folks at Apple aren't drinking so much Cupertino kool-aid not to realize that they are screwing up big time. They now have the iMac 27" and the Mac Pro out there drifting in a vacuum of information. The mini overlaps more with the iMac primarily because didn't update the iMacs. There isn't a real good external reason why the regular iMacs are dead in the water right now. Apple primarily moved the Mini price points much higher ( Apple middle management that checks Apple stock price 2-4 times a day is probably happy with that. Not so sure if significant chunk of the old Mini customer base. ).
The $1,999-1,499 approximately 13" laptop line is a hodgepodge of offerings that all seem to kneecapped in one or two ways.
If work on MBA and Mini then the rest of the product line has to largely go dormant. This is all more of the same "can't walk and chew gum at the same time" that sent the Mac Pro and Mini into Rip Van Winkle slumbers. That the Mac Mini has the exact same physical dimensions as before and one of the major "great" features of the retina MBA is that the volume is substantially smaller is not going to make folks waiting on a new Mac Pro (who skipped the MP 2013) version going to feel any better about waiting (while pointing to MP 2013 like system size constraints ) . Apple isn't building trust they won't flake on timely future design iterations. They still aren't building much trust. On the mini they stopped digging the hole deeper for some, but the constant "Rob Peter to pay Paul" exercise is a bit much for as much mark-up as Apple charges.
If Apple is thinking this event was a useful misdirection' from their growing, festering problem with the Mac Pro they are smoking way too much recreational weed. It isn't. The evidence that Apple hasn't reached the tipping point of viability isn't in yet. The farther out Apple's target launch is the more true that is. By saying nothing, Apple is pragmatically saying that it is far. They at least need some sort of "controlled" leak or pre-pre sneak peak to do damage control at this point.
"Here's some news for the Mac Pro... we plan to ship it sometime next year (hopefully)... oh and it's based on ARM CPUs. In the meantime go and buy our great Intel based systems." Doesn't really sound like damage control, more like adding additional damage.
deconstruct60 has said a lot of times successfully that Apple is really in the Rip Van Winkle sleeping mode, regarding the MP. I agree.
But now I think that we are the ones who have have to get a Rip Van Winkle deep sleep and hope that when we 'll wake up again, there will be a Mac Pro.
See you later (in 20 years)...
But now I think that we are the ones who have have to get a Rip Van Winkle deep sleep and hope that when we 'll wake up again, there will be a Mac Pro.
See you later (in 20 years)...
As a possible replacement for my cMP, I spec'd out the 6-core i5 MacMini with 32GB memory and 2TB storage, and it came to a cool $3099 before CA sales tax. Yikes. Add a QWERTY with numpad, another $150. Add trackpad, another $150.
Maxed out, with the i7, 64GB memory, 2TB storage, and the 10Gbit Ethernet, it's $4199, before tax.
MacMini at MacPro prices. I can see where this is going. Base MacPro is gonna be $6K
Maxed out, with the i7, 64GB memory, 2TB storage, and the 10Gbit Ethernet, it's $4199, before tax.
MacMini at MacPro prices. I can see where this is going. Base MacPro is gonna be $6K
It seems unlikely Apple is shifting Macs to ARM wholesale. Apple is doing a substantial amount of hand waving when they say the A12X is faster than 92% of the PC laptops out there. I strongly suspect that is based on models sold and not models offered by their top tier peers. All the painfully slow $200-400 based stuff with Celeron and Pentium processors in them that are just "dirt cheap". [ and they might also be sweeping in Chromebooks too although not in the "we outsold them with iPads" numbers. ]
Apple doesn't have viable ARM desktop solution for desktop systems in the > $1K range. They certainly don't have one for the > $2K range at all. That is just pure arm flapping.
Anandtech did some "breathless" benchmarking of the A12, but quickly tap danced around a real limitation:
"... On iOS, 429.mcf was a problem case as the kernel memory allocator generally refuses to allocate the single large 1.8GB chunk that the program requires (even on the new 4GB iPhones). I’ve modified the benchmark to use only half the amount of arcs, thus roughly reducing the memory footprint to ~1GB. The reduction in runtime has been measured on several platforms and I’ve applied a similar scaling factor to the iOS score – which I estimate to being +-5% accurate. The remaining workloads were manually verified and validated for correct execution. ... "
https://www.anandtech.com/show/13392/the-iphone-xs-xs-max-review-unveiling-the-silicon-secrets/4
The short of it is the A-series can't run an unmodifed SpecMark code.
Apple's A-series are skewed to running iPhone sized jobs. Need to scale to larger memory workloads and it doesn't work as well. The A-series is 'desktop' class as long as drag racing on 32-bit memory space sized workloads. That isn't a viable replacement for the whole Mac desktop workload range. ( yes A-series is 64 bits but that is far more for better non legacy opcodes and modern instruction set than for memory capacity issues. )
Apple pitching the iPad Pro as a viable "low end" laptop computer range solution does really put much credibility that macs are going ARM. The iPad Pro 12.9" is now the same base price as the non-retina (classic) MBA that Apple has left dangling in the line up. Apple did not move the MBA down in price even though it is a more than fully amortized design. Apple moved out of the MBA 11" price point and never went back down into it. That points as much to "saving the space" for the iPad Pro as anything else.
Apple could tweak the Macbook design so that the list was a bit thicker to accommodate a touchscreen ( and perhaps put a 360 hinge on it ) and just slap a A__X processor in there they'd have an iBook (iOS) based Chromebook like alternative. If the iPad Pro doesn't stop the Chromebook encroachment, they'll have to do something. Lots of folks are spinning "oh, take macOS down market". That probably isn't their strongest move. [ NOTE: Apple's observation that they sell more iPads than Dell/HP/Lenovo/Microsoft combined sell laptops. ( although that was probably not including their chromebook + 'netbook like' options ). ]
A Mac Pro with a 'soon to appear" as ARM primary CPU is largely fantasy hand waving. There is next to nothing Apple is visibly or likely doing that supports that. A Mac Pro with a T-series boot/security/SSD system absolutely. A shipping ARM processor in a Mac Pro embedded in some way is a 'sky is blue' observation (e.g, vast majority of SSD controllers on the market have ARM core(s) in them. Wifi ... ditto. )
The most likely rational for there being no Mac Pro at this point is that Apple hasn't been working on it. No work on the system. No Mac Pro. Nothing to do with new "Area 51" technologies. if they don't do anything, nothing happens. Not having something at this point of 2018 probably means they weren't doing something substantive for a significant chunk of 2017 either.
In addition to the remarks above, the other problem with leading off with ARM for the Mac Pro is that no pro apps today run on ARM.
Assuming they even get to announce ARM Macs at WWDC2019, how do developers get ARM support together fast enough to make an ARM Mac Pro realistic?