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Sorry, can't do. Just buy a couple of Titan RTX. Cheap at $2499 each.
I completely missed those, now that I mostly use GPUs in the cloud. $2499...:eek: That really is cheap. Might be the result of Nvidia not allowing Titans in data centers anymore. Two of those in a desktop for $5k is a very reasonable price though for some applications.
 
Sorry, can't do. Just buy a couple of Titan RTX. Cheap at $2499 each.

Bummer... For my needs, I would save the four grand & go for a Radeon VII under water...

Good points. Most of the "real life" users just want a couple of double-wide PCIe slots and a power supply with four 8-pin GPU power leads. (And some simple dongles to map dual 8-pin to 8+6 and dual 6.)

Why not just four 6+2 leads...?

Socketed CPU
Upgradable RAM (8 DIMM slots, quad channel, 256GB maximum)
Two PCIe Gen 4 x16 slots (Crossfire & SLI compatible)
Four M.2 NVMe SSD slots (one taken up by soldered T2/3-ified boot drive)
Four TB3/USB-C ports (all on individual controllers for maximum bandwidth...?)
Four USB-A ports
Two 10Gb Ethernet ports
Latest & greatest WiFi & BlueTooth
1200W Titanium-rated PSU

Built-in 280x45mm radiator with four 140x25mm fans in push/pull & built-in QDC fittings for integrating one or two GPUs into loop, in as compact a chassis is possible (without restraining thermals)...

That seems like a modular Mac Pro that might please the widest variety of "Pro" users...

External TB3/USB-C boxen for you old-fashioned 2.5" & 3.5" SSD/HDD using scum; M.2 NVMe SSDs 4 Lyfe...!!!
 
Bummer... For my needs, I would save the four grand & go for a Radeon VII under water...



Why not just four 6+2 leads...?

Socketed CPU
Upgradable RAM (8 DIMM slots, quad channel, 256GB maximum)
Two PCIe Gen 4 x16 slots (Crossfire & SLI compatible)
Four M.2 NVMe SSD slots (one taken up by soldered T2/3-ified boot drive)
Four TB3/USB-C ports (all on individual controllers for maximum bandwidth...?)
Four USB-A ports
Two 10Gb Ethernet ports
Latest & greatest WiFi & BlueTooth
1200W Titanium-rated PSU

Built-in 280x45mm radiator with four 140x25mm fans in push/pull & built-in QDC fittings for integrating one or two GPUs into loop, in as compact a chassis is possible (without restraining thermals)...

That seems like a modular Mac Pro that might please the widest variety of "Pro" users...

External TB3/USB-C boxen for you old-fashioned 2.5" & 3.5" SSD/HDD using scum; M.2 NVMe SSDs 4 Lyfe...!!!
You may need an AMD epyc to drive that with hope of TB4.

Maybe gen 4?? but with intel the gen 4 may be used to feed switch gen 4 x16 = 32 lanes of gen 3.
 
Corporate capital expense regulations make it impossible for me to eBay the surplus items. I believe that our IT eWaste processing does feed some stuff into the "refurbished" market (those "server pulls" that are supplying old CPUs for the cMPs). Whether they'd be aware that a Titan X had some value or not is a question.
They likely do. There's a lot of refurbished resellers in the midwest who buy them at auction after the products go to an e-waste facility to determine their value. Parted out the cards aren't worth much, even the more precious metal versus their used value.

Resellers buy, examine, test, refurbish them, and sell them at discount but still enough to make them money.
 
They likely do. There's a lot of refurbished resellers in the midwest who buy them at auction after the products go to an e-waste facility to determine their value. Parted out the cards aren't worth much, even the more precious metal versus their used value.

Resellers buy, examine, test, refurbish them, and sell them at discount but still enough to make them money.

Slightly off-topic, but back in the day when I saw that some of my company's Silicon Graphics workstations were being tossed out, I asked if I could buy one. No-can-do, for the same reasons. However, I could have had one on loan forever. They just didn't happen to have a model I fancied.
 
Corporate capital expense regulations make it impossible for me to eBay the surplus items. I believe that our IT eWaste processing does feed some stuff into the "refurbished" market (those "server pulls" that are supplying old CPUs for the cMPs). Whether they'd be aware that a Titan X had some value or not is a question.

Spinners and SSDs, however, are always shredded.

Ugh, that sucks. I understand the data security stuff but it still bums me out so much hardware gets lost or pitched these days.
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Here we go again...

Navi postponed at best in Q4. No trace of Cascade Lake Xeons.
Radeon 7 already sold out and no sign of new stock coming up.

If the mMP becomes a 2020 product, I'm done.
Gimme hope...

While the sensible thing to do would be delay in that no one wants to buy a workstation that will be obsoleted in six months, I don't think Apple would push it until 2020 at this point. They have to ship a product due to the fact they've left people waiting so long before this, and waiting on timetables is partially what got them into this mess in the first place. Plus, they know better than us what stuff is and was delayed.

(Radeon VII seems very much like a stop-gap product anyhow, so the fact that it's low stock isn't surprising.)
 
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in that no one wants to buy a workstation that will be obsoleted in six months
I think that "obsoleted in six months" is a term that's too harsh. We're not seeing amazing improvements with each generation (significant improvements, especially for code that has been re-optimized for new hardware), but not the old "twice as fast without even recompiling" cadence.

And another big factor is that almost nobody has faith that Apple will keep the systems up-to-date. With Apple's "5 to 7 years is often enough for updates to pro workstations" pattern, that "six months" could become "7½ years" before an update.
 
And another big factor is that almost nobody has faith that Apple will keep the systems up-to-date. With Apple's "5 to 7 years is often enough for updates to pro workstations" pattern, that "six months" could become "7½ years" before an update.

Certainly, which is why I think that they have to meet their 2019 deadline, even if some better components were on the cusp of availability.
 
They likely do. There's a lot of refurbished resellers in the midwest who buy them at auction after the products go to an e-waste facility to determine their value. Parted out the cards aren't worth much, even the more precious metal versus their used value.

Resellers buy, examine, test, refurbish them, and sell them at discount but still enough to make them money.

Interesting, I find getting access to eWaste (I use it for sculptures) is getting particularly difficult, both because it's classified as a hazardous waste here, and because almost all eWaste companies have a "our contract requires destruction" policy. A few years ago, I found a group who were willing to sell me old motherboards based on weight, but they got out of that business.
 
If the mMP becomes a 2020 product, I'm done.
Gimme hope...

Same thought...... I had enough with waiting and being disappointed year after year.

Even Dec 2019 is late!

I really think the window is April-June, between the “dog ate my homework” blogger chats, NAB*, and WWDC.

*I don’t expect anything more than a tease or press release with information with NAB, although some tidbits have come from NAB in the past (final cut pro and 6,1 in a black box iirc). Anything beyond that anyone still waiting should be put on suicide watch.

If it’s a 2020 product just call it what it is-DOA. There isn’t anything left for creatives that need power horses. The longer they go out the less light there is on the possibility for an upgrade or even an 8,1.
 
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I really think the window is April-June, between the “dog ate my homework” blogger chats, NAB*, and WWDC.

*I don’t expect anything more than a tease or press release with information with NAB, although some tidbits have come from NAB in the past (final cut pro and 6,1 in a black box iirc). Anything beyond that anyone still waiting should be put on suicide watch.

If it’s a 2020 product just call it what it is-DOA. There isn’t anything left for creatives that need power horses. The longer they go out the less light there is on the possibility for an upgrade or even an 8,1.

I suspect anything at NAB will probably be shown off on iMac pros, or maybe supercharged minis with TB eGPU / DAS arrays. No real need for black boxes.
 
I suspect anything at NAB will probably be shown off on iMac pros, or maybe supercharged minis with TB eGPU / DAS arrays. No real need for black boxes.
The 6,1 was shown off in a black box with Pixar- no I do not believe they will show anything off in a black box this go around. NAB is just conveniently in April right around the friendly blogger (now) annual chats.
 
I suspect anything at NAB will probably be shown off on iMac pros, or maybe supercharged minis with TB eGPU / DAS arrays. No real need for black boxes.

Apple doesn't officially present at NAB, so there is zero need to make it look sexy. The whole session to the very narrow few it was presented to would be in private. So a shroud box with just a cable to the display would work just fine. "Look don't touch" demo a working program that hints at the performance.

As pointed out above that is what happened for the MacPro 2013 (6,1).

But that is primarily because they had "something" working at that point. They should have "something" working at this point. If they don't that is a sign that the product management is way past screwed up.

If they do a NDA demo to a small enough group of folks at NAB. I wouldn't expect leaks to show up in open rumors forums for months ( at least closer to when Apple advised they would be more openly talking about it. )
 
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Here we go again...

Navi postponed at best in Q4. No trace of Cascade Lake Xeons.
Radeon 7 already sold out and no sign of new stock coming up.

If the mMP becomes a 2020 product, I'm done.
Gimme hope...

That's not really true. I know you have all likely seen this, but they are making their way to the OEMs and data centers. Random stuff like this seems to be showing up too, which matches the specs we've seen from other sources. We basically know what cascade lake's every detail is now. Once that happens, its usually just a couple months before we start seeing obvious signs of them in clusters or data centers. Then they show up at Dell/Lenovo/HP workstations and rack mount servers. I'd bet that by some time in the summer you could buy a Cascade Lake workstation somewhere or other, and that there is a decent chance that could even come by May.
 
Here we go again...

Navi postponed at best in Q4. No trace of Cascade Lake Xeons.
Radeon 7 already sold out and no sign of new stock coming up.

If the mMP becomes a 2020 product, I'm done.
Gimme hope...

The next Mac Pro shouldn't be critically based on Navi. Navi ( at least the roadmapped 2019 version of it) doesn't cover the high end range; pragmatically it is a Polaris replacement, not a Vega 64 replacement. It would only fill the "entry card" role for the next Mac Pro. It shouldn't have been pegged to fill the highest range. If Apple picked Navi ( which only got initial R&D samples back in around Oct 2018 ...) then they never were seriously shooting at a launch date during most of 2019 anyway. if they were picking Q4 2019 anyway that's a non slip.

If they were picking Q1-Q2 2019 then Navi was an extremely dubious choice option for macOS. Period. Polaris as the entry level card in Q4 2018 (or Q1-Q2 2019) would work just fine and have been much less risky. At the entry level, it only needs "good enough" performance and much better price point. Mid-high end could be filled with either Vega54/64 (clocked higher than a iMac Pro) or a 54/VII .

The Cascade Lake Xeon SP class are shipping to the privileged few ( AWS , Azure , Baidu , etc. ). Intel's 14nm capacity upgrades were not fully coming online until March-April https://www.anandtech.com/show/13684/intel-further-boosts-capex-to-meet-demand-for-14nm-chips Intel will probably try to push the Xeon SP models forward first and then as catch up roll out a variant in the Intel W class. How slow is really dependent upon where Intel puts the focus of their 14nm capacity upgrades. Most of that could go into mainstream processors (and chipsets), so the Xeon SP and W shouldn't see any slowdown after the mainstream parts 'get out of the way'. If it is May and still a problem then they have chosen a different mix. However, for the next month or so there shouldn't be an expectation of major volume shipments of next gen Xeon SP as Intel doesn't have capacity to do that ( they have more overall product demand than fab capacity).


The Radeon VII if in a Apple GPU card probably would carry a higher price. If AMD was making more money delivering
those 'Vega20' GPU packages to Apple I don't think it would be as short supply as the general market ( where they may not be making much money at all. ). Radeon VII is probably paced by the number of MI50/MI60 they are selling. Apple could land a bit closer to the MI50 and wouldn't necessarily have that throttle. ( presuming AMD isn't critically short on 7nm wafer starts ). Apple could be a contributing factor to the scarceness of the VII cards if Apple is paying a higher fee ( GPU package cost + 'Pro' label support/license. )


P.S. It seems a bit dubious that AMD would delay the smaller Navi all the way to Q4. The mid-side one that replaced the speed bumped RX 590 ... sure... but the rest of the line seems questionable. AMD competitiveness in the discrete mobile space is problematical if they don't move for most of 2019.
 
Unless there's a reason that next-gen PCIe would strongly influence the "design" direction of the next MP, I still don't see how it matters.

I'm going to reorder this a bit to cover the points.

The actually "real life" user base for the Mac Pro (i.e. not MacRumors) does not care whether it's PCIe 3, 4 or 5.

The fact that doesn't start with a 2 ( 2, 3, 4, or 5) means there actually is a time launched component to this that does matter. I'm not saying at all that they should be waiting long periods of time for 4 ( or 5), but launching with is perceived to be contemporary PCI-e version number with the competitors does matter.

By the end of 2019 PCI-e v4 will probably be considered 'contemporary' for many folks making workstation buys that span Q4 '19 - Q4 '20

PCI-e v5 yes. Outside of the folks doing extreme I/O > 200Gb/s range (heavily occupied by Infiniband ... for which there are no macOS solutions). That is probably in the "don't care" range for several years going into the future. The pragmatic pice per port in that range is so high that vast majority of workstation deployments aren't going to engage that. And the storage cards in that bandwidth range also will be in the stratospheric range too for a couple of years.


I.e., would PCIe 4 or 5 change whether it has zero PCIe slots, 1 PCIe slot or multiple PCIe slots? Would it change whether it has serviceable drive bays? Would it change the form-factor of the computer? If it doesn't affect those things, then I'm not seeing how it matters.

Several factors but a few.

First, Around 2012 the bandwidth of Intel's QPI interconnect between CPU packages was approximately 230 Gb/s. PCI-e v4 x16 bandwidth is around is 256 Gb/s. That's actually higher. The latencies are probably better for QPI but if people got usable multiple package performance out 2010-2012 dual package Mac Pros then using the PCI-e v4 bus as a interconnect between CPU and GPU won't be horrible.

PCI-e v5 will be even higher bandwidth and incrementally closer latencies. ( especially if keep mainly to a point-to-point bus traffic. i.e., the other more mundane stuff of on separate PCI-e bus nexus. )

So the pre 2013 dire need for two CPU packages? Not really. There would be a NUMA cost in accessing 'far' memory but in more cases that would not be so high as to always have to make copies of 'everything' to avoid it. That can feed into overall system design.


Second, PCI-e 4 pragmatically shrinks distance to "furthest slot". So if if two x16 slots spaced at 2-3" widths aparts your are far more likely to run out of "room" for the the others to also be v4. So probably going to get slot segregation. You have differing distance limits. That will influence slot placement, which if doing holistic integrated design will have impact. v 4.0 , and to lessor extent v5.0 , are making a "less distance for greater speed" trade off. The move to 4-5 isn't going to cover everything; just some narrower set of workloads.

The runs substantively opposite of Thunderbolt which makes a "more distance for minor latency tradeoff" an objective.
Thunderbolt standards is also quite likely not gong to chase after PCI-e v4.0 for a long time. ( addiction to highly affordable copper wire cabling solutions, desire for stability multiple implementors will want, etc. ) . PCI-e v3.0 x8 is already twice the bandwidth. PCI-e v4.0 x8 will be 4 times. PCI-e v5.0 x8 will be 8 times. Apple's bubble that they could take away all the slots and just pour on Thunderbolt ports to the Mac Pro will be even less tenable in the PCI-e v4-5 era than it was in the PCI-e v3.0. Apple not having at lest one open slot would be in the drowning in drinking kool-aid mode on their part.

A design with a balance between Thunderbolt and open slots should be a major influence on the design. Neither PCI-e v4-5 nor TB v3+ will be meant to cover "everything' . So the need to find a balance should be so obvious at this point that really would be hard pressed to miss it even if had a major commitment to Thunderbolt across the product line.

Three, access to more cost effect higher I/O. ( presuming get a trickle down effect of new 100+ Gb/s I/o leads to cheaper stuff down the product line price cuts trickle down through 40 , 20 , 10 ) makes NAS/SAN/'distant NAS' storage all that more practical and more widespread.

An example at the higher end. ( not that Apple is planning to be firmly entrenched there (the OS foundation for this I don't think is going to show up any time soon), but where the competition is going...)

"...In an era where it is possible to get 100GB/s or (later this year) 400GB/s, the bandwidth explodes and putting storage in one place and making it look local in terms of latency is possible. And therein lies the hook to what Mellanox, Pure Storage, and startups like Excelero are doing. They are pushing thin ways to pool resources and make remote storage look local with the ability to configure it on the fly according to what each server needs. ... "
https://www.nextplatform.com/2019/02/06/why-nvme-will-flash-forward-in-2019/

Apple brining 1-2 10GbE base T ports to that fight is like bringing a sharp stick to a gun fight. Apple has inherent conflicted overall system design goals if capping out at 10GbE and limiting internal storage . When other workstations are in the 25+ range and on fiber ( or moving up to next gen Base T 25-40Gb/s range. ) they'll have an upper hand on nonpedestrian network storage also. An open slot to keep them more competitive would be a prudent move. It is doubtful though Apple will look to see bulk storage not drifting toward more distance though.

Network storage wanting to expand will push the internal storage in the even faster bandwidths ( so will see PCI-e v4-5 Flash storage showing up at high price points but not so high as to loose too much ground to the network folks. )

Relationship to overall system design. Apple's "one and only one" storage drive for the Mac Pro specially should be dropped. However, that isn't necessarily going to be the old legacy commitment to 3.5 drive bays. SATA is even slower than Thunderbolt. The 'gap' on SATA is growing even higher. HDD speed are relatively going nowhere, so that probably isn't where the local storage performance 'puck' is going to ( so Apple probably won't be skating to there. ).
 
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Apple doesn't officially present at NAB, so there is zero need to make it look sexy. The whole session to the very narrow few it was presented to would be in private. So a shroud box with just a cable to the display would work just fine. "Look don't touch" demo a working program that hints at the performance.

As pointed out above that is what happened for the MacPro 2013 (6,1).

But that is primarily because they had "something" working at that point. They should have "something" working at this point. If they don't that is a sign that the product management is way past screwed up.

If they do a NDA demo to a small enough group of folks at NAB. I wouldn't expect leaks to show up in open rumors forums for months ( at least closer to when Apple advised they would be more openly talking about it. )


No I agree, but I guess the point I wanted to make (but didn't) was that in 2012(11 ?) Apple didn't have a product in 'this' segment, now they have 2 current offerings (I imagine) they are working quite hard to sell. I don't see them doing private presentations that might dissuade any studio/outfit from buying an these by giving a whiff of what might be around the corner. Also if there was a desire to show off software FCP/Logic/Motion/WHY, you have a current 'pro' imac you could pull out. The situation back then was different.

Whether or not Apple has something ready at this point I won't speculate on. I'm biased by a growing belief that Apple really wants out of this segment for various reasons, and that we'll get an 'not this year', followed next year by an eternal radio silence on the topic ... But have no real basis for this, just my pessimism and/or frustration.
 
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No I agree, but I guess the point I wanted to make (but didn't) was that in 2012(11 ?) Apple didn't have a product in 'this' segment, now they have 2 current offerings (I imagine) they are working quite hard to sell. I don't see them doing private presentations that might dissuade any studio/outfit from buying an these by giving a whiff of what might be around the corner. Also if there was a desire to show off software FCP/Logic/Motion/WHY, you have a current 'pro' imac you could pull out. The situation back then was different.

The demo would be around to do what the current Macs can't. So in 2013, there was a Pixar 3D demo they were doing that the rest of the Mac line up couldn't do. In 2019, I'm pretty sure that off on the NAB show floor there will be some 8K-10K HDR uncompressed video ingest demos that the current Mac line up pragmatically can't do. The 80Gb/s limitation of the relatively Jurassic 2010-2012 models can't handle uncompress (and/or multiple camera capture) all that well at those resolutions in HDR. Never mind not even being for sale ( but the folks 'circling the airport' on them will start running into issues). The Mac Pro 2013 and iMac Pro can't and won't work.

Similar with see on the floor 2+ GPU set-ups doing workload. Show floor demos with more than one internal storage drive worth of capacity.

The notion that the next Mac Pro and the iMac Pro are mostly covering the same 'space' I think is a bit too myopic. The current Mac Pro ( 2013 6,1) is the one in a highly overlapping space with the iMac Pro. The both have similar problems being competitive in 2019 with rest of the options in workstation market that folks at NAB would be able to choose from for future purchases. There are certain workloads where Apple has no 'horse' in the race at all.

The catch 22 with Non Disclosure Agreements (NDAs) is that pragmatically Apple needs to disclose something to stop folks from talking about what was disclosed. 2019, 5-10 folks who saw something in 2013 all sitting at dinner the NAB and the question of "did Apple show you anything " doesn't get a set of "change the topic" , "no comment" , and/or deflections but instead a round of 5-10 consensus "no". That would spread pretty quickly. And folks who had real projects that needed equipment to be prepped for production in Summer-Fall of 2019 aren't going to wait around for Apple. "Half" of the 2009-2012 Mac Pro are already on the vintage/obsolete list. The number of folks 'moving on' in 2019 will only increase from previous years.


Whether or not Apple has something ready at this point I won't speculate on. I'm biased by a growing belief that Apple really wants out of this segment for various reasons, and that we'll get an 'not this year', followed next year by an eternal radio silence on the topic ... But have no real basis for this, just my pessimism and/or frustration.

I highly doubt that will happen. They've already said Mac Pro was a 2019 product, so it is highly likely they'll ship something. They may come up with a "it is sliding to 2020" excuse because of bad choices they made, but they will probably ship it once there are work arounds and/or logistical delays unwind. (e.g., the Airpower in 2017 , no ... 2018 , no ... 2019 ... ). Quintessentially why Apple has a rule about talking about future products because once explicitly commit they have a commitment.

Where I will somewhat agree is that it may be another "hobby" project for them. That they may slide to 2020 because their long term plan is to go back to sleep for another 4-6 years and then in 2-3 years see if they still want to do another iteration. if the Mac Pro lands in Q4 '19 - Q1 - '20 is probably a 'hobby'. if folks are looking for a vendor to crank out a new system new every 12-15 months ... it won't be them.

Apple isn't looking to get out of the segment as much as only put a finite amount of work into being in it. If they punt in enough effort to mostly break even and keep a limited presence then find. They aren't trying to loom large over the segment. The folks who tend to buy and disappear themselves down a hole for 6-7 years probably won't mind. Folks chasing the least tech crazy probably will. The latter might be most of the workstation market but it isn't all of it.

The Mac Pro is such a relatively small sliver of the Mac revenue that if it is thre making marginally positive money and not consuming too many resources, Apple may just keep it around because it isn't in the way of the computational growth and efforts of the strategic rest of the Mac line up.
 
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The demo would be around to do what the current Macs can't. So in 2013, there was a Pixar 3D demo they were doing that the rest of the Mac line up couldn't do. In 2019, I'm pretty sure that off on the NAB show floor there will be some 8K-10K HDR uncompressed video ingest demos that the current Mac line up pragmatically can't do. The 80Gb/s limitation of the relatively Jurassic 2010-2012 models can't handle uncompress (and/or multiple camera capture) all that well at those resolutions in HDR. Never mind not even being for sale ( but the folks 'circling the airport' on them will start running into issues). The Mac Pro 2013 and iMac Pro can't and won't work.

Admitting I'm ignorant on the various broadcast tech and system bottlenecks that crunch the dataflow. I'm going to assume something like an external blackmagic decklink on TB with internal storage to buffer, connected to an imac pro or 'blackbox imacpro 2,1 ? Again this is not my area, just spitballing, but I see that as more likely appearing in our universe, than a new macpro with a pcie slot or two to accommodate hardware to aid capture of any super high bandwidth stream. Again, just my pessimism. No facts, but we are 'blind' speculating here anyways.

Similar with see on the floor 2+ GPU set-ups doing workload. Show floor demos with more than one internal storage drive worth of capacity.

Can see GPU/Storage solutions being showcased, mentioned it from the start even :)

The notion that the next Mac Pro and the iMac Pro are mostly covering the same 'space' I think is a bit too myopic. The current Mac Pro ( 2013 6,1) is the one in a highly overlapping space with the iMac Pro. The both have similar problems being competitive in 2019 with rest of the options in workstation market that folks at NAB would be able to choose from for future purchases. There are certain workloads where Apple has no 'horse' in the race at all.

I think Apple wanted the imacpro to be the 'next macpro', I'd argue that Apple wants out of this space you think the next macpro should exist in. There are lots of workloads where Apple has no horse, ie enterprise outside of extreme niche ( that one mac mini datacenter ). Apple used to have a 'fairly robust' set of server/workstation offerings, hardware and software. Now all they have is a punchline, whether purposeful or reactionary, legitimate or not, it is what it is. It's not so much a criticism as an observation.

The catch 22 with Non Disclosure Agreements (NDAs) is that pragmatically Apple needs to disclose something to stop folks from talking about what was disclosed. 2019, 5-10 folks who saw something in 2013 all sitting at dinner the NAB and the question of "did Apple show you anything " doesn't get a set of "change the topic" , "no comment" , and/or deflections but instead a round of 5-10 consensus "no". That would spread pretty quickly. And folks who had real projects that needed equipment to be prepped for production in Summer-Fall of 2019 aren't going to wait around for Apple. "Half" of the 2009-2012 Mac Pro are already on the vintage/obsolete list. The number of folks 'moving on' in 2019 will only increase from previous years.

Agree.

I highly doubt that will happen. They've already said Mac Pro was a 2019 product, so it is highly likely they'll ship something. They may come up with a "it is sliding to 2020" excuse because of bad choices they made, but they will probably ship it once there are work arounds and/or logistical delays unwind. (e.g., the Airpower in 2017 , no ... 2018 , no ... 2019 ... ). Quintessentially why Apple has a rule about talking about future products because once explicitly commit they have a commitment.

I think consumers crave transparency and knowledge into upcoming product offerings and company commitments to product lines, probably for very good reasons. I can understand why large companies want to be quiet and maybe non committal ( agility ). It's fun to see how the communications play out.

Where I will somewhat agree is that it may be another "hobby" project for them. That they may slide to 2020 because their long term plan is to go back to sleep for another 4-6 years and then in 2-3 years see if they still want to do another iteration. if the Mac Pro lands in Q4 '19 - Q1 - '20 is probably a 'hobby'. if folks are looking for a vendor to crank out a new system new every 12-15 months ... it won't be them.

Apple isn't looking to get out of the segment as much as only put a finite amount of work into being in it. If they punt in enough effort to mostly break even and keep a limited presence then find. They aren't trying to loom large over the segment. The folks who tend to buy and disappear themselves down a hole for 6-7 years probably won't mind. Folks chasing the least tech crazy probably will. The latter might be most of the workstation market but it isn't all of it.

The Mac Pro is such a relatively small sliver of the Mac revenue that if it is thre making marginally positive money and not consuming too many resources, Apple may just keep it around because it isn't in the way of the computational growth and efforts of the strategic rest of the Mac line up.

Without knowing what is going on internally, and just seeing the time slip through the hourglass between what information is shared, I truly hope for 'not consuming too many resources' otherwise they would have had something by now. If they need the time AND modest amount of resources, then I suspect they are aiming for 'revolutionary' and in this particular instance, it will inevitably lead to disappointment ( as modern Apple revolutionary means proprietary or incompatible )

The optimist in me agrees with you, the pessimist in me thinks you'd get along with the optimist me.
 
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