Why are you guys so in love with this stacking nonsense?
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MP 7,1 Waiting for Mac Pro 7,1 A1991 (no more)
- Thread starter Mago
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I don’t get it either. It may be nice for some people, but the thermals just wouldn’t work and it would waste a lot of space.
The Mac Pro 2012 Server models shipped without a keyboard : https://support.apple.com/kb/SP652?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US
That was probably motivated by the notion that all the users ordering probably had they keyboard they needed for its placement ( probably none in this case ). Apple probably extended that with the 2013. The packaging is smaller is a contributing factor, but also "more green" if don't ship keyboards to people who don't want one.
The other temporary issue with the iMac Pro is that that was the only machine that the keyboards matched. ( I suspect that Apple uses the iMac to put a baseline more predicable demand under the keyboards they order ( i.e., get to critical mass volume to assure profitability ) and then what they sell on top is 'gravy" ). [ NOTE: that Apple's keyboards now are relatively more expensive; only wireless models with lithium ion batteries. ]
Finally, the other major change since 2012 ( and earlier ) is that Apple doesn't sell or make a wired keyboards anymore. So the folks who buy a Mac Pro and primarily want a wired keyboard ..... Apple doesn't make it. So why bundle a wireless one that those folks do not want? The folks that do want it can add it at check-out (online Apple store) or just buy another box from the retailer. ( retailers also won't mind this much since it makes the Apple keyboards move out of their inventory at some minimal rate. Not just selling replacements for broken ones. New Mini/Mac Pro sales should be at least be higher than 'user broken' keyboards.... or else kind of morbid. )
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Adding the "pro workflow" team isn't a major reorganization. While Apple has grown in product scope the core "Politburo" of the Industrial Design team hasn't. A decade ago it was approximately Ive and the 12 (or so) core team. Now ... approximately the same size core. If there are 12 folks who have to always "pee" on every single mainstream product that Apple ships then that is a choke point.
When the Mac ( and Lisa) teams started off Jobs forkeed them off from Apple other groups. Some stuff , like the car, is still forked out. IMHO part of the problem is that more mature products ( have a longer history and higher revenues ) all get sucked into the limited attention space space of the politboro. ( e.g., what the frack is ID doing screwing around with the Apple Park "my little pony" stage and decorations. Seriously? )
THe "pro workflow" group is more so an augmentation to the current organization they have. What it covers is far more so dealing with the scale of a board, diverse set of pro applications , workflows, and optimizations/bugs. There are more possible optimizations and bugs than there are developers ( of both hardware , firmware, and software). Many features/bugs will get priroritized and fixed but if the list of much lager than have resources to deal with ( i.e., a normal large scale software project) the prioritization/assignment/closing needs more than just one feedback mechanism. The "pro workflow" group is only going to augement what Apple had. If the Marketing ( market analayis ... not the sales spin writers) and/or the Industrial Design group is off in the swamp then the "workflow" group is likely only going to have relatively mild corrections on that . They are not the primary drivers. They are primarily focused on a subset of things that got "missed". They too aren't going to be able to cover "everything" as a augment group.
Two years is reasonable even from scratch is actually allocated folks to it full time. If they have 2.5 Mac teams covering 6 products then but that too is an Apple dogma issue ( allocate 'small' ) .
Apple has a smaller number ( like by an order of magnitude or two or three) than those two also. Which means if the iPhone or MacBook Pro are in trouble those will get covered before something that pragmatically doesn't move the top or bottom line of the company. Things down at the bottom of the priority queue tends are highly suspectible to being "starved' for resources.
I don't think many people here actually want a stacking design. However, there are comments about it because there have been a few fantasy mockups using a stacking design.
That being said, the thermal issues could certainly addressed, but for size, practicality, and much more, it seems to be a very poor choice.
Other reputable sites are reporting their sources as saying it is what Apple is going to do. That’s why I’m saying it sounds like something Apple could actually attempt.
I’m not a fan of the concept. All I’m saying is that other sites are reporting it and it does sound very much like something Apple would attempt.
No one would be happier than me to be wrong. But it sounds very much in line what what Apple believes under Cook and Ive.
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Ive and Cook. Jonny and Timmy.
They know exactly what they are doing. They are not stupid and somehow out of touch.
Any person with a brain knows you cant pack very hot things like a CPU or a powerful graphics card in a small close space without making compromises.
Apple does NOT want to see people opening and closing their little heat machines.its obvious.
Ill say it again . Pride and peer pressure is the only thing that will cause Apple Trinkets,inc. to make a Mac Pro.
And if they are making one . However it is designed they really need to get it put in the public eye.
Im gonna guess thet decide to show it at WWDC.
They know exactly what they are doing. They are not stupid and somehow out of touch.
Any person with a brain knows you cant pack very hot things like a CPU or a powerful graphics card in a small close space without making compromises.
Apple does NOT want to see people opening and closing their little heat machines.its obvious.
Ill say it again . Pride and peer pressure is the only thing that will cause Apple Trinkets,inc. to make a Mac Pro.
And if they are making one . However it is designed they really need to get it put in the public eye.
Im gonna guess thet decide to show it at WWDC.
I'm fairly certain that this is not correct. There have been a handful of "Apple Universe Fan Fiction" Photoshop mockups by people who are inspired by the situation, and those mockups have been published and re-published and re-re-published by all the usual rumor sites. The circular links and re-publishings self-reinforce the idea until people who are only casually paying attention start believing that it was a legitimate or credible leak.
I am confident that you track down any of the number of "lego" imaginings, none actually claim to be a leak or be based on a source. It's just another one of those rumors that gets repeated so often that the community starts to treat it like a fact.
From the MacRumors coverage:
"Concept Imagines What a Modular Mac Pro Might Look Like" (emphasis added)
"...we have no idea what the machine will look like when it's finished, but that hasn't stopped designers at CURVED/labs from dreaming up a conceptual design..."
Then you get people posting their fever dreams like this guy and then that image get spread all across creating as a new "source" or "rumor." And it sounds even more true, because it rhymes with the CURVED/labs stuff.
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Rumors like that also lower expectations and distract from more pressing issues .
If a harebrained idea like a Lego MP is brought up often enough, the release of another trashcan MP might not look so bad in comparison .
Not saying that's what's happening, just saying .
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That's a bold statement .
That's a bold statement too .
Personally I'd go with a very different term , but that's just me .
1. Quantitative data
Frequency over 2006-2018 period there are only 2-4 occurrences ( depending upon how liberal account for Mac Pro announcement. Mac Pro 2012 ( not a 'new' product). Likewise "sneak peak" versus an actionable announcement.
A 12 year period and 17-33% chance of announcement versus 67-83% chance of no announcement. That is not indicative of correlation (in the range of being half the percentage as the other or more) . In other words, it is complete wrong 67+% of the time.
2. Matching context of June 2013 to June 2019
In June 2013, The Mac Pro was dead (withdrawn due to being too old) in the EU. Apple fully intended to end manufacturing of this model in 2013. Competitors has moved onto the Xeon E5 series back in 2012 ( and Mac Pro was stuck with 2009 vintage CPUs and GUPs); essentially several years old hardware.
June 2019 does have a tons of matches there. While still sold in the EU isn't one, the Mac Pro 2013 model is more than several years old CPU and GPU. The MP 2009-2012 models are deeply on the Vintage/Obsolete list ( so macOS 10.15 quite likely will drop them this year and be very apparent at beta release at WWDC). Apple extremely likely wants to put the MP 2013 onto the Vintage/Obsolete countdown clock this year as it is creeping up on 6 years old ( and major component parts are being assigned Vintage/Obsolete status with their suppliers) .
In these two contexts, the inclusion into WWDC is just about as much about th misdirection from the Mac Pro product management being fumbled (with awkward and eventually disruptive discontinuations) than it is about "showing Apple really cares about Pros". If they had very high priority, then the product management wouldn't be so bad.
Some folks don't like when I assign Apple's big event shows the label "dog and pon shows", but that kind of misdirection really does merit it. If you go back and look at the Mac Pro 2013 "can't innovate my ass" through the lens of what happened over the next 5 years after that is relatively clear. A platform for the next 10 years with the implication that it would be a vibrant platform for 10 years. Pfft. Not! More like Rip van Winkle falling asleep for 10 years. The fumbling with Firewire vs Thunderbolt in that intro. The implication of "we're betting the farm on OpenCL" when they'd be running for the Metal hills in less than 18 months from then. etc. etc.
What folks pushing the notion that "put on a nice dog and pony show at WWDC" as a 'get out of jail free card' for Apple to do is merely just encourages them to continue on this indirection commutation pattern. Blow some fancy smoke and we'll be happy. That is probably going to be substantively less effective in 2019. Apple has built a much bigger 'flake' reputation around the Mac Pro product line at this point.
For example, Apple told some people to start circling the airport over 2 years ago. If they come out and still don't have a concrete "you can buy" (land the plane) date and time a decent number of folks are simply going to divert elsewhere.
Apple designed themselves into a "thermal corner" with part of the Mac Pro 2013's design. Backing themselves into a bad Public Relations corner so have to repeat the "dog and pony" show for the 2019 is just as bad as if the new system also backs itself into a slightly different thermal corner.
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3. "WRONG" is in bold for high emphasis more so about assigning an hour to the Mac Pro intro. The WWDC keynote is only suppose to be 2 hours long. 50% of the time allocation to the Mac Pro is a horrible allocation of time given the breadth of topics Apple needs to cover. A 'Keynote' should be notes on a selective group of key topics. It shouldn't be a marathon lecture.
If the Mac Pro is 'odd', then it may need a lecture to outline why it isn't "round peg for a square hole". Apple may need to spend some substantive outlining how the Mac Pro isn't a high overlap to the iMac/iMac Pro and what targets they are going after. However, that would best be done outside the context of the WWDC keynote.
If the older Mac Pros are being terminated ( no macOS updates and end of manufacturing) the just cover that with a press release. THey could state that the next Mac Pro was still firmly a 2019 product ( just now June 2019). That they are planning to have a "full announcement" in a couple/several months when had finished crossing 'ts and dotting i's and "had cut once after measuring twice". They could also talk more clearly about what they are not doing (pop baseless rumor bubbles ) in the press release. [ and it would be even better if did a decent amount of the clearly communicating and bubble popping before WWDC . ]
I find it more extremely annoying that taking it personally.
In case 1, it is really isn't a matter of "opinion". The numbers don't "add up" at all and yet folks insist that it is 'true' when it is really far closer to "Alternative Facts". "Alternative Facts" is a concoction to sell propaganda. I find propaganda annoying.
Case 2 is annoying because Apple has said over last two April sessions that they are trying to communicate "better". I'd like to see Apple turn the corner and get better at managing the Mac Pro. Backsliding into yet another dog and pony show to feed misdirection isn't better. It is annoying. Apple slavishly repeating what they did in 2013 in 2019 is long term a bad thing; not a good thing. Cheerleading them to repeat that only increases the number of participants digging a deeper hole for the product.
Case 3, the amount of banal stuff in WWDC is getting annoying. The keynote is likely to run significantly over 2 hours. the "state of the platforms" is also 2 hours. All total I'll probably put in 5+ hrs into something that has ony about 1-1.5 hours of non-syrupy content. That's annoying. There is way too much largely superficial "feel good" stuff in the opening WWDC talks. That is annoying.
the new WWDC app has 'stickers' . Yippee ...... not! [ This could have been some "pro workflow" project to hire someone to whip those stuckers up ..... but in the context of the Mac Pro being 5-6 years behind schedule ... that is really where they are putting their development resources into. ]. The harder it is dig useful information out of WWDC the more annoying the conference gets. It is on a downward trend over the last couple of years.
You tell it like it is, bro !
I still don't like it, but there is a chance WWDC will not see an MP introduction .
What do you think the fallout could be ?
On the one hand, it's obviously true that we've been waiting for a long time, and a few more months don't seem to be such a big deal .
However, WWDC - a dog and pony show alright - is a big deal .
For some of us the next MP is a big deal; an unceremonious MP announcement in the fall, meaning another delay, another disappointment amidst an eternal communication blackout - would it be a big deal after years of waiting ?
I can only speak for myself, but WWDC 2019 has been my personal MP deadline for the past 2 years , since April '17 , irrational or not .
June 3 or bust, as far as I'm concerned .
I'm looking through my browser history. There was one I read that got somewhat specific into whether Apple was planning on licensing their module design for third parties, but I can't find it again yet. This one goes over the initial rumor.
https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...-may-mean-units-that-connect-like-lego-bricks
They all could be wrong and I hope they are. But where this got started is people complaining their haven't been any leaks. There are people out there that are supposedly leaking, but they're getting dismissed because it's around the stackable design.
Again, I hope they're all wrong. But to say we're not seeing any leaks yet isn't accurate.
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That's a bold statement .
I know, right? Have people here actually been following Apple the last five years?
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The announcement of the MBP sounds like deck clearing. But it has sounded to me like the WWDC choice might have more to do with how ready the Mac Pro is, and not Apple thinking WWDC is the wrong venue. If they think it's ready enough to show, they'll announce it at WWDC.
I did, but it makes me feel stupid, and I don't want to talk about it .
If Apple chooses to not have the MP ready at WWDC - and it is simply a matter of choice - they should turn it sideways and do the honourable thing . Phil Shill at least knows his anatomy .
It is possible, I just wouldn't bet anything on it (i.e., not very probable if Apple is devoted to the product's long term prospects ) or build business resource planning expectation . A 'reset' on info perhaps.
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Stupid? No.
Out of touch? Errrr. MBP is on its 4th generation of the butterfly keyboard and extended 4 year warranties for last 3-4 years of high end laptops. That was a preconceived plan?
The iPhone XR has been on sale since introduction. That was a preconceived plan?
Apple has been wailed on in the China (and other price senstive markets ) market (and it is about to get worse ). That was a preconceived plan?
Apple getting caught with their pants down is on the uptick.
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Why on Earth would Apple 'hold' a MBP keyboard fix for any longer than it took to get out? They were "saving" the keyboard fix for WWDC. Just how completely twisted can Apple be? The keyboard is a PR disaster!! If Apple even considered holding back the fix for some dog and pony show would be evidence that the inmates were running the asylum.
I'd agree that if the Mac Pro was completely finished and ready to go Apple would announce it at the WWDC. But how likely is that. The just finished screwing up the AirPower. The keyboard is 4 years into being refined into something stable. They couldn't internally do a "small" 4K monitor so have yet another LG Utlrafine they outsourced the work on. The Apple Car project has been reset 2-3 times now. The Mac Pro replacement is more than 24 months after they said they "started working realy hard" in April 2017. If they are slacker enough not to finish in 2 years, why are they working super hard and finished "way before deadline WWDC inclusion " now?
If they actually trying to get it right but deeply engaged on some Area 51 looking tech ... it is probably late.
P.S. MBP Core i9 update timing also had to due with Comptek being next week where about every serious competitor that the MBP has would be introducing or demoing a shipping product in that high end laptop category that did not have a chronic keyboard problem. Doing it this week saves them a week of being a laughing stock at a major convention. Maybe.
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"We have an 8 core laptop" is a pretty awesome announcement for developers. And given that they never wanted to admit they had a keyboard problem in the first place, beyond a few people....
The rumor mill is pointing to a 2020 release now. So that's quite a long time.
I still think it sounds likely that they are doing something entirely custom and ill advised, and that's why it's taking them so much time.
The iMac Pro announcement at WWDC 2017 was just under 5 minutes long. The Mac Pro announcement at WWDC 2013 was just under 8 minutes long.
I like to think Apple can afford 5 to 8 minutes during the keynote to announce the 2019 Mac Pro. Just show what it looks like, talk about the specs and then move on to the next topic. And as with the 2013 MP and 2017 iMP, have one on display (working or otherwise) in the Hands On Area afterwards and either do or do not answer any questions about it.
That is all Apple has to do for it during WWDC Week. Just show it exists.
In the weeks after WWDC, that is when Apple can hold their formal reveals with it in Cupertino and New York and invite the tech press and influencers and show them the running hardware and answer their questions so they can all start writing about it and people can start making educated plans as to whether to wait for it or go another route.
I like to think Apple can afford 5 to 8 minutes during the keynote to announce the 2019 Mac Pro. Just show what it looks like, talk about the specs and then move on to the next topic. And as with the 2013 MP and 2017 iMP, have one on display (working or otherwise) in the Hands On Area afterwards and either do or do not answer any questions about it.
That is all Apple has to do for it during WWDC Week. Just show it exists.
In the weeks after WWDC, that is when Apple can hold their formal reveals with it in Cupertino and New York and invite the tech press and influencers and show them the running hardware and answer their questions so they can all start writing about it and people can start making educated plans as to whether to wait for it or go another route.
And that’s likely what they will do. Even if it’s some novel form factor Apple isn’t going to spend an hour justifying it on stage. They’re gonna hit the big points, maybe have a Jony Ive video and then move on.
Apple has been very consistent, even with the years that have hardware, that WWDC is a software-first event.
It wasn't too old - it didn't meet safety regulations. Sales (from Apple) were blocked from 1 March 2013 when the regulations went into effect.
Apple Forced To Stop Selling Mac Pro In Europe Due To New Regulation Requirements
Also note that the IEC 60950-1 Second Edition regulation that the cMP couldn't meet was published in December 2005 - even before the MP1,1 was released in August 2006. Apple had lots of opportunities to upgrade the MP....
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This is really an unfalsifiable claim. For every argument questioning your claim, you could easily cook up some 'alternative motive' retort. So there is really no point in engaging with it, there is no value to it.
I just wanted to quote it again, because it is soo slapstick, it deserves more time for comedic appreciation.
497 pages ... what a long strange trip it's been.
I think if they announce they're going to make a big show of it and how innovative and amazing it is and how only Apple can build it blah blah blah... After getting burned so badly by the 2013 they'll want to make a point that they still know how to do a Mac Pro.
That's still like 10 minutes though. And WWDC keynotes can be two and a half hours long.
Developers also get a second keynote in the afternoon, so it's not like they have to cover everything in the morning keynote. The morning keynote is really for the press and the public, it's not for developers.
I like jonny better
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It was meant to be comedy. Glad you liked it.