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I would consider the old "cheese cutter" Mac Pro design as being more similar to what some of the "Lego module" concept design videos for a 2019 nMP are really talking about. Not a group of small metal boxes inside of a larger ATX sized box & a rat's nest of connecting Thunderbolt wires, but simply an updated ATX or mATX PC case design, & well thought-out thermal factors.
And also including front of case USB 3.1, USB-C & headphone & mic audio ports.
Something that could have easily been produced and offered for sale within 6 months of their famous "mea culpa" meeting from over 2 years ago.
 
Way too much fear & pessimism in this thread. Maybe it'll be great and the entry price not deadly. It's possible.
It certainly is possible. It’s also possible that that we will get a “the new Mac Pro didn’t meet our quality expectations and we’ve decided to cancel further development”.

I personally think that is more likely than a decent tower that can take cards and gpu upgrades. We probably got our “pro” machines this week with the 8-core MacBook Pro.
 
Way too much fear & pessimism in this thread. Maybe it'll be great and the entry price not deadly. It's possible.

Yes, yes! I can see it now!

Somewhere over a rainbow, way up high
There’s a Mac that I’ve dreamed of sung in a lullaby.
Somewhere over the rainbow, sky’s are blue
And the dreams that you dare to dream,
really do come true.

The composer’s estate is suing Apple and others for years of unpaid royalties. :oops:
 
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There's about 2 weeks until WWDC... let's just see what Apple unveils.

Believe me, I will be the first to jump ship if nothing is revealed, because I have waited too long to see if a new Mac Pro will be announced. I WANT an Apple desktop sitting at my desk, but if they won't deliver, or even announce, then I have no choice but to switch to Windows...

I, for one, don't think they are going to do a Lego-like stacking design. Please Apple, give us the Cheesegrater 2.0...
 
The problem with just releasing a cheesegrater again is that a lot of the large pieces that the cheesegrater had are just not needed anymore, like e.g. the drive bays, both for optical and hard drives. But the full length for PCIe card would still be very much appreciated.

Then we come to the big issue of video passthrough through the Thunderbolt ports. How would this be realized if we‘re just using regular PC GPUs? They would need to have multiple internal DP connectors which they do not currently have.

If we‘re not using standard PCIe cards, who, other than Avid, AMD and Blackmagic, will produce cards for Apple‘s new formfactor?
 
1. Quantitative data
Frequency over 2006-2018 period there are only 2-4 occurrences ( depending upon how liberal account for Mac Pro announcement. Mac Pro 2012 ( not a 'new' product). Likewise "sneak peak" versus an actionable announcement.

A 12 year period and 17-33% chance of announcement versus 67-83% chance of no announcement. That is not indicative of correlation (in the range of being half the percentage as the other or more) . In other words, it is complete wrong 67+% of the time.
Well, to be fair, we’ve only had two major redesigns after the introduction of the cheesegrater, the iMac Pro and the tcMP. And both times they were introduced at wwdc. So we could say 100% of the times they had a new pro desktop, it was showcased during wwdc.

Personally, I don’t care if it is during wwdc or not, but apple has to say something already.

Also, it doesn’t take an hour to preview a computer. Five, ten minutes at most.
 
The problem with just releasing a cheesegrater again is that a lot of the large pieces that the cheesegrater had are just not needed anymore, like e.g. the drive bays, both for optical and hard drives. But the full length for PCIe card would still be very much appreciated.

Then we come to the big issue of video passthrough through the Thunderbolt ports. How would this be realized if we‘re just using regular PC GPUs? They would need to have multiple internal DP connectors which they do not currently have.

If we‘re not using standard PCIe cards, who, other than Avid, AMD and Blackmagic, will produce cards for Apple‘s new formfactor?

It's not like anyone is requesting the exact same box .
You could shrink and modify the original cheesegrater design by quite a bit, even if you kept a couple of 3.5" drive bays and / or a few 2.5" Sata bays .

Thunderbolt video is a problem though .
But at this point I think it's Apple's problem .
 
Way too much fear & pessimism in this thread.

Well, if you have followed the last 10 years or so and saw what happened to the MP and to the "Apple Pro Crowd" in general this is entirely justified. So I would call it realism, not pessimism.

Maybe it'll be great and the entry price not deadly.

Yeah. Maybe.

It's possible.

Maybe it is also possible that rivers will start flowing upwards or that hell freezes over?

But I have to admit, despite all this I still have a glimpse of hope. I mean, they can't be THAT stupid, right? Personally, I hope that the drawings about that vertical airflow minitower we saw are somewhat true.

So lets wait and see, at least my guts tell me that we get at least a little something on WWDC.
 
I don't know about you, but Apple in the past has furnished cubes, spheres and cylinders, so i'd expect a pyramid for the 2019 mMP.

Well there are pyramidal computer cases on the market today so it could happen.

Maybe they'll go for an isosceles trapezoid since it offers more usable internal volume. :p
 
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You tell it like it is, bro !
I still don't like it, but there is a chance WWDC will not see an MP introduction .

What do you think the fallout could be ?
On the one hand, it's obviously true that we've been waiting for a long time, and a few more months don't seem to be such a big deal .

The 'fallout' could be managed without any stage time and/or "extravaganza" demo.

There are three drivers on folks attaching undo importance to WWDC keynote time.

1. Information vacuum. Apple hasn't provided information to reasonably set expectation so folks are filling the vacuum with " what would make Mac Pro a 'primary driver', strategic product of Apple". WWDC is a know date and a time when Apple sets staregtic directions.

All Apple has to do here is simply just fill the vacuum with info. They could do a "targeted leak" threw some of their favorite tech blogger(s) or a simple press release. That will work extremely well because folks desperately jump on any Mac Pro. And within the two weed lead up to WWDC the rumor sites a ravenous for tidbits. The word will get out.

This following sequence would work extremely well.
a. Computex Intel announces that Xeon has slid to August-Sept time frame.
b. Apple follows that with some statement about " working hard on Mac Pro but something unexpected popped up and need a couple of months more to wrap up the Mac Pro, but mostly on track. ". The bubble that out via trusted leaker or simply in press release queued after the Computek ones.
c. Folks who arbitrarily set a deadline simply just more it to better guess.

The can enhance the above even more by busting a few unfounded rumor bubbles. ( "Not legos", " Not 150+% increase in price " , "Not a Z8 clone" , etc. ). They don't have to completely fill the vacuum but they don't have to complete fill it either to move the date a couple of weeks or months.

If it is only incremental info the leverage they have now is probably bigger than they would have had 1-2 months ago.


2. "The Mac Pro was originally introduced and 'killed' at WWDC." If the Mac Pro product development has hit a major snag and is sliding into 2020 then Apple needs to either leak more info or hand out more consolation prizes.

a. If Apple didn't drop the Mac Pro 2012 from the 10.15 support list some folks will keep circling the airport with just the mild info leak ( case 1 above). The fallout is much higher if see with supported list on 10.15 beta that their system is clearly at the end of the line ( even the "not in obsolete status" deniers will have problems at that point.

b. If Apple managed to announce some Nvidia driver deal for 10.15 that would only further stem the fallout. The significant group of folks who only want the Mac Pro as a container for their NVIDIA cards ... that's all the primarily want ... a container. They'd have one . So many of them would likely be happy circling the airport for another 6-12 months at least.

If Apple throws features/support at the old king at WWDC there is a significant number of folks take that and run with it. ( they certainly did at the last WWDC. ). Apple can use that conitivie pre-condition as leverage by incrementally feeding the monster even if it isn't really warranted.


3. The notion that the WWDC keynote is about "Pros". The primary audience of the WWDC Keynote is not non software "Pros". It gets even less so each year. There isn't going to be limited fallout where there is an increasing disconnect between who is the target audience for the keynote. Apple has been moving it more so toward advanced iOS and general macOS users. The services business is now approximately the same size as the Mac business. ( the Mac Pro is even a dimmer silver of the overall revenue). There is a set of folks who are just as focused on what WWDC used to be as much as what the Mac Pro used to be.

The fallout from a very narrow set of folks is offset but a larger set of folks who are spending money in the last year or two.

Apple would generally have less WWDC "fallout" if they actually had more event dispersed through the year not just 2 (and maybe 3).


However, WWDC - a dog and pony show alright - is a big deal .
For some of us the next MP is a big deal; an unceremonious MP announcement in the fall, meaning another delay, another disappointment amidst an eternal communication blackout - would it be a big deal after years of waiting ?

Apple doing an announcement at the multimillon dollar HQ Theater doesn't makes something "unceremonious" . That is ludicrous. The number of folks streaming the event wouldn't matter as much as who is streaming/following the event. This isn't a mass ales product at all. So showing the Mac Pro to 1.2 million folks who are never going to buy it. really does nothing for the Mac Pro long term at all.

Wrapping the Mac Pro 2013 up in a event viewer stream of millions didn't raise its importance to get timely fixes and updates over time. It won't for the Mac Pro 2019/2020 either.


I can only speak for myself, but WWDC 2019 has been my personal MP deadline for the past 2 years , since April '17 , irrational or not .

Folks with irrational , arbitrary. "social media appearance status" aren't that hard to move. All Apple has to do with jiggle the social media levers a bit and many of them can be moved.

Folks with hard business requirements the current Mac options don't meet have moved. The "fallout" there is already happening. Nothing changes if Apple does or doesn't announce. Some have extended their decision deadline way past they probably should have made it. If Apple is going to be very late in delivering... pragmatically the fallout there isn't much different either. If folks have major work to do that needs to come on line in October and Apple isn't going to ship in volume until Janurary (and is dropping the their current Mac Pros from macOS support ) it isn't an option either way.

The folks who are dogmatically entrenched in the "pure box with slots or I'm leaving". ... the fallout from those folks also absolutely doesn't matter on Apple releasing on June or later into 2019. Lots of folks have laid down the 'utltimatum" build exactly this or I'm walking. If Apple isn't building it, any of those folks "walking' because they got no info doesn't make a lick of difference. None. So that fallout is extremely limited.
 
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"We have an 8 core laptop" is a pretty awesome announcement for developers. And given that they never wanted to admit they had a keyboard problem in the first place, beyond a few people....

But that isn't the bulk of the announcement.
Apple expanded the keyboard repair warranty extended timeframe to the July 2018 MBP ( which were suppose to solve the problem). Apple is tap dancing to claim this 4th generation isn't really the 4th ( it is the 3rd just different materials. LOL. ).
The 8 core is largely a fig leaf. It is a timely fig leaf in that Intel didn't have them in sufficient volumes many months earlier.

This is at least just as much about what Apple failed to do earlier ( deliver a robust keyboard) as it is anything about a recent bump in laptop core count.


The rumor mill is pointing to a 2020 release now. So that's quite a long time.

Right? So if primarily just have relatively "quite bad" news. A 6+ year delay in the next Mac Pro wasn't enough . Apple had to put together a plan to drive that into something closer to 7 year. That's something to get up on the stage at WWDC and strut around stage like they are "masters of innovation". Look an even slower update cycle than any Mac every before. Apple wants to make a 'big deal' about that in front of over million folks. Really? Or are they more likley to engage in "Emperor New Clothes" and kick the can on this bad news a bit longer.

Getting up on stage and saying "even longer" is only going to draw even more "vaporware" accusations and comparisons to the AirPower debacle.

I still think it sounds likely that they are doing something entirely custom and ill advised, and that's why it's taking them so much time.

That's the issue though. If folks are cutting them slack because of this "well its Area 51 advance alien technology" excuse ... why show it (and reveal that it really isn't all that advanced). Custom doesn't mean ridiculous amounts of time if have assigned a competent, adequately resourced team to build it. Those custom board GPU connectors for Mac Pro 2013 were not rocket science projects. Neither was Apple's blade SSD ( 'M.2'-like that arrivaed just before M.2 arrived. )

It isn't just the Mac Pro that as been slacking in upgrade effort. The whole Mac product line up has gone into hibernation mode at one time or another over the last 4-5 years. All of that stuff is largely custom. The whole iPhone is highly custom and it doesn't have long lags.

Super long time because custom is a substantively weak excuse here.

More likely this about resource allocation , focus, and priorities.

Folks are trying to use WWDC as a proxy for priority. That is probably highly misguided. ( the track record of the MP 2013 after WWDC 2013 is quite demonstrative of that. )
[doublepost=1558799844][/doublepost]
I think if they announce they're going to make a big show of it and how innovative and amazing it is and how only Apple can build it blah blah blah... After getting burned so badly by the 2013 they'll want to make a point that they still know how to do a Mac Pro.

How are they going to respectively claim being innovating if the product is sliding back into 2020? Perhaps, innovatively, bankrupt project management. But technological innovation?
The "this is so complicated that were are in over our heads so it has to take longer" is smoke ... not a demonstration of innovation.

I'm not so sure there is a creditable rumors about sliding into 2020. if that is based on stuff Appleinsider posted that was disconnected. ( and seems partially driven by the "move to ARM in 2020" hype..... some sites are trying pretty hard to couple those two "new Mac Pro" and "ARM" for little rational reason. .... other than more ad view click bait properties. )


That's still like 10 minutes though. And WWDC keynotes can be two and a half hours long.

Developers also get a second keynote in the afternoon, so it's not like they have to cover everything in the morning keynote. The morning keynote is really for the press and the public, it's not for developers.

The "State of the Platforms" talks has tended to lengthen out as Apple has pushed more 'end user focused' content into the keynote. The target audience of the keynote is increasingly being shifted away from the folks there at the conference and more so the the invited media and the "general population" folks on the generic live stream. Move more emojii coverage into the keynote and details about the various OS instances into the "State of the Platforms" talk.

That is the disconnect in the hype over pushing the Mac Pro into the keynote speech when that target audience is drifting away from deeper technical substance. Folks are aiming at WWDC organization from 6-10 years ago. It is different now.
 
The 'fallout' could be managed without any stage time and/or "extravaganza" demo.

........

The folks who are dogmatically entrenched in the "pure box with slots or I'm leaving". ... the fallout from those folks also absolutely doesn't matter on Apple releasing on June or later into 2019. Lots of folks have laid down the 'utltimatum" build exactly this or I'm walking. If Apple isn't building it, any of those folks "walking' because they got no info doesn't make a lick of difference. None. So that fallout is extremely limited.

Not pulling punches, are we ? Right on !
It hurts, but only because it makes so much sense ....

Apple should have hired this man as their pro work group , seriously .

And me . Vote for me and I'll bring back Snow Leo and Firewire .
And outlaw jogging to get rid of Cook .
 
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Well, to be fair, we’ve only had two major redesigns after the introduction of the cheesegrater, the iMac Pro and the tcMP. And both times they were introduced at wwdc. So we could say 100% of the times they had a new pro desktop, it was showcased during wwdc.

This is an example of how wrap statistics around what you want to see happen as oppose to actually measure what is. Presume a conclusion and then invent a process to arrive at the conclusion. In this case it is carefully jury rigged demographics foundation.

First, the iMac Pro is not a redesign of the Mac Pro. The iMac Pro is a redesign of the iMac. The two have the exact same general exterior dimensiona ( LxWxH). The notion that the iMac Pro is majorly "dervied from" the Mac Pro 2013 is pure misdirection. It is not. There are a few shared constaints but those are more so driven by being a literal desktop solution with minimal footprint restrictions. Is Apple targeting a substantive portions of the users base of the Mac Pro 2013 with the iMac Pro? Yes. Is the iMac Pro "redesigned from the Mac Pro"? No. Those are two entirely orthogonal dimensions of aspects to a product ( as least for folks not dogma wedded to form over function. ) .

For the iMac Pro, Apple basically started with the iMac and got rid of the RAM door, got rid of the SATA drive. Apple has tossed RAM doors and dumped SATA drives from other products along the way and those were not "Mac Pro" redesigns either. The decoupled DIMM placement on the logic board and more interior volume allowed them to put in a second fan and beefier CPU and GPU separated by more distance. (e.g., avoids the "thermal corner" of the MP 2013 as a lesson learned... not a "redesign" of that system. ) Performance it now overlaps more in the historical Mac Pro space but the physical case and primary deigns queues are all iMac with the MBP being the closest "next" influencer ( having dump RAM door and SATA several years earlier. )

The more direct influence of the iMac Pro has on the direct replacement of the current Mac Pro is that with the targeted user demographic overlap that is sufficienctly large enough the urgency for a replacement isn't that high. If there are MP 2013 upgrade "refugees" moving off the the iMac Pro in substantively, large number then WWDC 2019 is not all that important because the "Mac Pro class" largely got replace already.

if Apple primarily saw the iMac Pro as the Mac Pro replacement they would have dropped the Mac Pro because it had been superseded ( just like the previous Mac Pros were dropped as superseded) . It largely isn't. The demographic pool they are going after with the next Mac Pro is probably smaller and different than what the iMac Pro is targeting, hence they left a "placeholder" dangling in the line up. The iMac Pro was never pitched by Apple at WWDC or elsewhere (since April 2017 on ) as a direct "Mac Pro replacement".


Second, Apple introduced an incredibly non redesigned Mac Pro in 2012 the year before 2013. Cherry picking to avoid that completly counter event is another form of demographic selection skew. Primarily just picking outliers and wrapping the case around those. ( trying to toss the iMac Pro into the pile is firm foundation for classifying the 2013 intro in that status as apposed to "normal" practice. ) Nether 2012 or 2013 intros are entirely normal though. They are also coupled. The substantive "close to nothing" of 2012 ( and Cook's leak of "later 2013" ) did much to precipate the 2013 "sneak peak" not as something triumphant but that PR crisis management. ( 2012 was driven by exterior pressures and was not triumphant either. )

Personally, I don’t care if it is during wwdc or not, but apple has to say something already.

So previous to WWDC would work out . If all they have is "even worse than 2012" bad news I don't see the WWDC keynote as being all that relevant to making that being received any better. THey "should have" said something a while ago if they were truely committed to timely. Actually "done something" also.

2013 WWDC keynote didn't raise its priority resource allocation at Apple over the long term at all.

Neither one was a worth repeating exactly, "just because" they did it before. Both had some huge flaws.


Also, it doesn’t take an hour to preview a computer. Five, ten minutes at most.

The iPad got major time. But was also a major shift (and pushed into a highly packed with other major topics WWDC event ). IMHO, the next Mac Pro won't be a major shift though. Seems more likely that it will be more of a merging between the 2009 and 2013 models. A new place, but not a major "rethink". The real issue is whether need to push it out there if they haven't really locked down the engineering and production issues. A slick demo that they can't manufacturer buys just more egg on their faces. Likewise yet another "PR drama fest " of like their keyboard revolution.
[ If they are 100% just stuck on parts availability that is a different story. But the major missteps of the 2013 was not diligently doing and honestly checking their 'homework' before quickly shoving their product out the door but "late, so ship fever reigns. ". ]
 
This is an example of how wrap statistics around what you want to see happen as oppose to actually measure what is. Presume a conclusion and then invent a process to arrive at the conclusion. In this case it is carefully jury rigged demographics foundation.

First, the iMac Pro is not a redesign of the Mac Pro. The iMac Pro is a redesign of the iMac. The two have the exact same general exterior dimensiona ( LxWxH). The notion that the iMac Pro is majorly "dervied from" the Mac Pro 2013 is pure misdirection. It is not. There are a few shared constaints but those are more so driven by being a literal desktop solution with minimal footprint restrictions. Is Apple targeting a substantive portions of the users base of the Mac Pro 2013 with the iMac Pro? Yes. Is the iMac Pro "redesigned from the Mac Pro"? No. Those are two entirely orthogonal dimensions of aspects to a product ( as least for folks not dogma wedded to form over function. ) .

For the iMac Pro, Apple basically started with the iMac and got rid of the RAM door, got rid of the SATA drive. Apple has tossed RAM doors and dumped SATA drives from other products along the way and those were not "Mac Pro" redesigns either. The decoupled DIMM placement on the logic board and more interior volume allowed them to put in a second fan and beefier CPU and GPU separated by more distance. (e.g., avoids the "thermal corner" of the MP 2013 as a lesson learned... not a "redesign" of that system. ) Performance it now overlaps more in the historical Mac Pro space but the physical case and primary deigns queues are all iMac with the MBP being the closest "next" influencer ( having dump RAM door and SATA several years earlier. )

The more direct influence of the iMac Pro has on the direct replacement of the current Mac Pro is that with the targeted user demographic overlap that is sufficienctly large enough the urgency for a replacement isn't that high. If there are MP 2013 upgrade "refugees" moving off the the iMac Pro in substantively, large number then WWDC 2019 is not all that important because the "Mac Pro class" largely got replace already.

if Apple primarily saw the iMac Pro as the Mac Pro replacement they would have dropped the Mac Pro because it had been superseded ( just like the previous Mac Pros were dropped as superseded) . It largely isn't. The demographic pool they are going after with the next Mac Pro is probably smaller and different than what the iMac Pro is targeting, hence they left a "placeholder" dangling in the line up. The iMac Pro was never pitched by Apple at WWDC or elsewhere (since April 2017 on ) as a direct "Mac Pro replacement".


Second, Apple introduced an incredibly non redesigned Mac Pro in 2012 the year before 2013. Cherry picking to avoid that completly counter event is another form of demographic selection skew. Primarily just picking outliers and wrapping the case around those.

I don’t think it is. Also I didn’t mean to say the iMac Pro was a redesign of the mac pro. What I said is, it is a redesign, and it is a pro desktop. If you thought what I said is iMac Pro is a Mac Pro redesigned, I guess I must have worded it poorly. My bad, english is not my mother tongue.

Also, in the last years, every time there’s been a redesigned pro desktop, it has been displayed at wwdc, and by that I mean a relevant part of the show, not just a slide. When they got speed bumps, they were not. Annalyze that as you please.

I repeat it, I don’t care if they announce it at wwdc, before of after, as long as it’s not another pile of excuses. And I think at least we’ll agree that apple has run awfully late, so it should be sooner rather than later.

For my part I’ll leave it here.
 
Well, I am tired of waiting - I am pricing out options with AMD. I'll miss apple, but at the end of the day, I need to get things done.

I am looking forward to seeing what Dr. Su will unleash at Computex.
 
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So we could say 100% of the times they had a new pro desktop, it was showcased during wwdc.

This is an example of how wrap statistics around what you want to see happen as oppose to actually measure what is. Presume a conclusion and then invent a process to arrive at the conclusion. In this case it is carefully jury rigged demographics foundation.

The 1st PowerMac G5 was introduced at WWDC 2003.
The 1st MacPro was introduced at WWDC 2006.
The 1st Trash Can Mac Pro was introduced at WWDC 2013.

I have no idea if a new MacPro will be introduced in a couple of weeks, but every single first generation/major re-tooling of the top-of-the-line Mac has been introduced at WWDC for the last 16 years.

I don't see that as selective or "jury-rigged demographics," but different strokes...
 
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Folks with irrational , arbitrary. "social media appearance status" aren't that hard to move. All Apple has to do with jiggle the social media levers a bit and many of them can be moved.

In that respect, we shouldn't forget that Apple has hardly any backers left even in social media circles when it comes to the MP , and virtually none in tech journalism .
Apple can jiggle levers, squeeze in a few forum or blog postings here and there, even an unlikely leak, but they no longer control the MP narrative in any way, shape or form .

The pressure is on them and it is rising, with the WWDC being a possible boiling point .
If it's not happening then, there is no other specific date or event people can look forward to - vapor ware status might ensue .


The folks who are dogmatically entrenched in the "pure box with slots or I'm leaving". ... the fallout from those folks also absolutely doesn't matter on Apple releasing on June or later into 2019. Lots of folks have laid down the 'utltimatum" build exactly this or I'm walking. If Apple isn't building it, any of those folks "walking' because they got no info doesn't make a lick of difference. None. So that fallout is extremely limited.

I would go as far as claiming that slot box or bust Mac users are the majority of holdouts .
It's true that they might stick with Macs the longest regardless of the actual release date .

Corporate buyers will not .
Not if there isn't at least a very clear announcement way before fall, with design specifics , specs, pricing, maybe a roadmap of sorts .
Keep in mind the MP basically has ceased to exist by now, it's not like there's simply a product line to be continued in a somewhat predictably fashion , like 2006-2012, and even before that .
The MP is going to be reinveted (or not) , be an unkonwn product and a fall annoncement or release will make it a late 2020 buy in corporate world - assuming it meets their needs .

Unless of course it's a slot box, those would sell right away .
 
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