MP 7,1 Waiting for Mac Pro 7,1 A1991 (no more)

[danwells]

Unfortunately, the major reason for Apple NOT to do AMD CPUs is their mobile line.

There are suitable Ryzens for the middle of the mobile Mac range, but not for the ultralight MacBook nor the powerful 15" MBP. Apple doesn't want to split their CPU business, since Intel and AMD CPUs require different optimizations.

They certainly won't release just one slow-selling high-end machine with Threadripper or EPYC, no matter how well those chips would fit - it would add complexity to MacOS for a machine that sells well under a million per year.

I don't think they'll even move to AMD for their ~5 million desktops per year (all have good AMD options), without being able to move the ~15 million notebooks.

As long as there are millions of notebooks that can't go AMD, Apple's stuck with Intel - and of all the Mac notebooks, the only one that has a Ryzen that really fits is the 13" MacBook Pro (various quad-core options from 15 to 35 watts, some of which have powerful Vega graphics). The MacBook Air used to use 15 watt processors, and could again - which would offer AMD options. The MacBook requires a <7 watt processor, which AMD doesn't make (or, if they do, it's an old Athlon or something).

The 15" MBP has the opposite problem - AMD doesn't make a notebook processor fast enough. The biggest mobile Ryzens are 35 W quad-cores, with much of the 35 watts devoted to graphics. They're probably (just a guess) 15-20 W chips excluding the onboard Vega. The 15" MBP has historically used 45 W chips plus discrete graphics, although I'm sure Apple would be very interested in a 70-75 W chip that included a Vega 20 or equivalent Navi instead. It's now up to 8 cores, and I can't see Apple accepting a core decrease.

Until AMD offers a modern <7 watt notebook processor and a 45 watt 8-core (or a 75 watt 8-core that includes a Vega 20), Apple can't use AMD. It's possible that the <7 watt requirement will go away soon, as Apple moves the MacBook to ARM- but the 15" MBP alonestill massively outsells the Mac Pro (I wonder how it sells compared to all desktops combined)?

 

[Mago]

But are we looking at proprietary GPU(s) again, or will there be PCI slots as you stated before...?

I don't work at Apple, there are 2 rumours (maybe based just on prototypes, some prototypes where never meant for manufacturing), the longest talks about a mini tower with corners like the Mac mini buy large vents on top , enabling PCIe slots at least 2, there have been tcMP prototypes with updated hardware: tb3, Polaris GPUs , so maybe apple find a way to increase it's TDP with minimal aesthetic changes, let's see next week

That would make absolutely no sense. Why use “painting themselves into a thermal corner” as an excuse for the lack of ipdates only to repeat the same design?

To show us how almighty is Apple which overcomes that thermal corner with innovation (actually heatpipes)...

Trashcan 2.0 is more likely than any of the stackable concept designs I've seen. I still think the mMP will be a tower though.

Totally agree, even much more convenient that any stackable nightmare.

There is more possibility that Apple will implement PCIE 5.0 in the upcoming Mac Pro than them going Ryzen 3!

With the time it will come, not yet, at less you have better luck than those furious fanboys waiting for long range wireless charging on the iPhone and other iShut

 

[jscipione]

I've highlighted the word that makes this promise mean nothing. (our)

(Actually, not "nothing" - but they are promising that it will be better than the Mac Mini....)

It means that the Mac Pro has to offer more than 18 cores besting the iMac Pro - a 28-core Xeon SP would fit the bill nicely.

 

[AidenShaw]

It means that the Mac Pro has to offer more than 18 cores besting the iMac Pro - a 28-core Xeon SP would fit the bill nicely.

Actually, the Mac Mini desktop tops out at six cores, so an eight core MP7,1 would meet the requirement.

Apple is somewhat inconsistent, however, as to whether to call an Imac a "desktop". Usually, but not always, "desktop" means separate monitor.

 

[ekwipt]

"We have a team working hard on [the modular Mac Pro] right now, and we want to architect it so that we can keep it fresh with regular improvements, and we’re committed to making it our highest-end, high throughput desktop system, designed for our demanding pro customers."

That makes it sound like the Mac Pro will not be low-end - it will either utilize Threadripper or Xeon SP, not Ryzen. Then again Phil "my ass" Schiller said it, so who knows.

I think they could use Ryzen and it would still be pro, Ai, Scientific, high end graphics wouldn't be happy but the majority of content creation could be done on it. Personally I'd buy one the day of announcement, I really don't need that many cores for anything I do and if I could swap out the Brain component every few years or at least on seperate cycles to my graphics card options or monitor for that matter, I'd be extremely happy

 

[archimacpro]

Actually, I quite like the trashcan.
And, yes, I make my living on it - all day, every day.
V portable so I just pick it up & take it home after a days work.
It simply works, and with a nice handle on it.
And it looks great.
Plugs into my 2 x 40"uhd's (not using retina) so I have so much screen real estate that I can work on archicad plans.

After 5 yrs, I just need more memory, (16 is pushing now) more SSD (1TB was ok) and faster everything - especially since the latest intel probs. But I love it's silence and portability. We do have a couple of PC's in the office, for Lumion and admin stuff.

And I'd love to go to a Mac server.

 

[Boil]

I don't work at Apple, there are 2 rumours (maybe based just on prototypes, some prototypes where never meant for manufacturing), the longest talks about a mini tower with corners like the Mac mini buy large vents on top , enabling PCIe slots at least 2, there have been tcMP prototypes with updated hardware: tb3, Polaris GPUs , so maybe apple find a way to increase it's TDP with minimal aesthetic changes, let's see next week

I think I would rather see the "rounded corners" versus the "tcMP 2.0"...

It means that the Mac Pro has to offer more than 18 cores besting the iMac Pro - a 28-core Xeon SP would fit the bill nicely.

The modular Mac Pro does not need to start at specs higher than the top-end iMac Pro, they should be similar, just that one has more expansion & no attached display...

And specifying a 28 core CPU that retails for as much as the current base Mac Pro, that is ridiculous...

There are a TON of "Pro" users for whom a 28 core baseline Mac Pro is simply overkill...

Actually, the Mac Mini desktop tops out at six cores, so an eight core MP7,1 would meet the requirement.

I think they could use Ryzen and it would still be pro, Ai, Scientific, high end graphics wouldn't be happy but the majority of content creation could be done on it. Personally I'd buy one the day of announcement, I really don't need that many cores for anything I do and if I could swap out the Brain component every few years or at least on seperate cycles to my graphics card options or monitor for that matter, I'd be extremely happy

I could see the Ryzen 3000-series CPUs in the fabled xMac...

 

[jscipione]

Actually, the Mac Mini desktop tops out at six cores, so an eight core MP7,1 would meet the requirement.

Apple is somewhat inconsistent, however, as to whether to call an Imac a "desktop". Usually, but not always, "desktop" means separate monitor.

"The vision behind iMac has never wavered: Transform the desktop experience by fitting powerful, easy-to-use technology into an elegant, all-in-one design."

"Up to 8 cores of processing power and an expansive Retina display make iMac an ideal pro desktop."

https://www.apple.com/imac/

Interestingly Apple does not call the iMac Pro a "desktop" so you got me there.
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The modular Mac Pro does not need to start at specs higher than the top-end iMac Pro, they should be similar, just that one has more expansion & no attached display...

And specifying a 28 core CPU that retails for as much as the current base Mac Pro, that is ridiculous...

There are a TON of "Pro" users for whom a 28 core baseline Mac Pro is simply overkill...

I didn't say start at 28 cores, I said offer! I hope that Apple will ship a decent 8-core version, but that's not what Philly-boy said, he said it would be the "highest throughput" machine that Apple has "designed for our demanding pro customers." I suspect that Apple will not offer 2 sockets, so the cores will depend on the socket that they pick. I could see Apple picking Xeon SP for its superior core count and clock speed. If Apple can't get lesser Xeons from Intel on that socket I'm sure Apple will find a way to fit less powerful Xeons in there, perhaps using another daughter card. Threadripper might also fit the bill, but I'm not sold on the idea of Apple shipping an AMD machine.
[doublepost=1559184125][/doublepost]

if Apple can't get lesser Xeons from Intel on that socket...

Xeon Scalable Processor Family “Cascade Lake SP” CPUs include:

• Up to 28 processor cores per socket (with options for 4-, 6-, 8-, 10-, 12-, 16-, 18-, 20-, 24-, and 26-cores)

Of course Intel offers a quad-core!

https://www.microway.com/knowledge-...sp-intel-xeon-processor-scalable-family-cpus/

 

[Boil]

I didn't say start at 28 cores, I said offer! I hope that Apple will ship a decent 8-core version, but that's not what Philly-boy said, he said it would be the "highest throughput" machine that Apple has "designed for our demanding pro customers." I suspect that Apple will not offer 2 sockets, so the cores will depend on the socket that they pick. I could see Apple picking Xeon SP for its superior core count and clock speed. If Apple can't get lesser Xeons from Intel on that socket I'm sure Apple will find a way to fit less powerful Xeons in there, perhaps using another daughter card. Threadripper might also fit the bill, but I'm not sold on the idea of Apple shipping an AMD machine.

Sorry, used to the "mMP needs to start where the iMac Pro stops" crowd...

Switching to AMD makes the most sense, better overall CPUs that are actually available while Apple transitions to ARM...

Even with the ARM transition, I wonder if Apple will keep the more high-power machines (MacBook Pro / iMac / iMac Pro / Mac Pro) on x64...? Or maybe they move general (non "pro") iMacs to ARM & only keep the "Pro" labeled Macs on x64...?

I, for one, would not mind a high core count Ryzen 3000-series based xMac, with a single PCIe 4.0 x16 slot for a GPU...

 

[ssgbryan]

I think they could use Ryzen and it would still be pro, Ai, Scientific, high end graphics wouldn't be happy but the majority of content creation could be done on it. Personally I'd buy one the day of announcement, I really don't need that many cores for anything I do and if I could swap out the Brain component every few years or at least on seperate cycles to my graphics card options or monitor for that matter, I'd be extremely happy

Dropping the max memory to 64Gb & having only 20 something PCIe lanes?

Nope.

Eypc starts at 8 cores and is going to 64 cores on "Rome".

Right now I can get a 32 core/64 thread Eypc system today for about $6500.

 

[ekwipt]

You're probably right but there's definitely a market for a cheaper MacPro using the X570 motherboard,

Dropping the max memory to 64Gb & having only 20 something PCIe lanes?

Nope.

Eypc starts at 8 cores and is going to 64 cores on "Rome".

Right now I can get a 32 core/64 thread Eypc system today for about $6500.

Most content creators don't need over 64Gb of RAM or more than 8 or 12 Cores, PCIe 4 gives us more graphics power

"The new 3rd generation of AM4 motherboards include PCIe 4.0 support, native USB 3.1 Gen2 ports"

" When paired with a Ryzen 3000 series processor, for a typical X570 motherboard what we'll see is that the lanes going into the top PCIe slot will come directly from the processor itself, as will the four PCIe lanes assigned to the first NVMe M.2 slot. This means that the X570 chipset – which also supports PCIe 4.0, but is not a requirement for the CPU-hosted lanes to use PCIe 4.0 – can use its own lanes for USB 3.1 Gen2 capability. Not only this, but it also allows the chipset to handle Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, and SATA responsibilities."

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14406/amd-reveals-the-x570-chipset-pcie-4-is-here

"Perhaps the biggest feature addition with X570 is the availability of PCIe 4.0 support, and MSI is taking full advantage of that additional bandwidth by showcasing a new [unnamed] Phison PCIe Gen4x4 NVMe PS5016-E16-based SSD. Needless to say, this PCIe 4.0 SSD delivers some scintillating performance according to MSI.

In the provided CrystalMark benchmark (seen below), the Phison-based SSD was able to record sequential read/write speeds of 5015MB/sec and 4458MB/sec. That's roughly 10 times faster than the best SATA SSDs and a good 1000+ MB/sec ahead of the best PCIe 3.0 NVMe SSDs on the market. "

https://hothardware.com/news/msi-5gbs-pcie-40-ssd-amd-x570-zen-2-platform-phison

"The Ryzen 9 3900X will have a suggested e-tail price of $499, and it will come with a cooler (more details in the coming weeks). AMD compared this processor in its presentations to Intel’s 12-core HEDT processor, the Core i9-9920X, which has an MSRP of $1199 and doesn’t come with a cooler."

https://www.anandtech.com/show/1440...-cores-for-499-up-to-46-ghz-pcie-40-coming-77

 

[Boil]

I think they could use Ryzen and it would still be pro, Ai, Scientific, high end graphics wouldn't be happy but the majority of content creation could be done on it. Personally I'd buy one the day of announcement, I really don't need that many cores for anything I do and if I could swap out the Brain component every few years or at least on seperate cycles to my graphics card options or monitor for that matter, I'd be extremely happy

Dropping the max memory to 64Gb & having only 20 something PCIe lanes?

Nope.

Eypc starts at 8 cores and is going to 64 cores on "Rome".

Right now I can get a 32 core/64 thread Eypc system today for about $6500.

Pretty sure he was referring to a 'lesser powered' Mac Pro, something more akin to the elusive xMac...

You're probably right but there's definitely a market for a cheaper MacPro using the X570 motherboard,

Most content creators don't need over 64Gb of RAM or more than 8 or 12 Cores, PCIe 4 gives us more graphics power

100% correct...

If Apple put out a more prosumer oriented modular desktop system, let's just call it the xMac, I think it could be a big seller... Something between the Mac mini & the Mac Pro...

Basically a Ryzen 3000-series ITX system...

 

[Macintosh IIcx]

The nasty issue with Intels Xeon“Cascade Lake SP” CPUs is that their Turbo boost kinda sucks for single/few Cores load work. Not great Wien the iMac next to you can do work 20-25% faster on single Core load which a lot of CPU taske still is.

I got a Intel 9900K in a pc build which strikes a pretty awesome balance between single and 8 cores turbo boost (from 5Ghz to 4.7 GHz).

 

[kiiso]

The nasty issue with Intels Xeon“Cascade Lake SP” CPUs is that their Turbo boost kinda sucks for single/few Cores load work. Not great Wien the iMac next to you can do work 20-25% faster on single Core load which a lot of CPU taske still is.

I got a Intel 9900K in a pc build which strikes a pretty awesome balance between single and 8 cores turbo boost (from 5Ghz to 4.7 GHz).

That is why Apple will use Cascade Lake Xeon W and not SP.

 

[Boil]

That is why Apple will use Cascade Lake Xeon W and not SP.

Threadripper 3, please...

 

[namethisfile]

Threadripper 3, please...

Am I naive or too dumb to comprehend the wish of Apple implementing Threadripper 3 on a Mac as oppose to what will be Cascade Lake?

Do you think a Mac Pro TR3 will be cheaper? Faster? What app on a Mac do you need that Windows won't have, in which to build a TR3 PC upon, albeit a lot cheaper than, if, Apple had build one for the masses?!

I'm just curious...

It feels almost troll-ish, IMO, to be like "Threadripper 3, please (Mr. Tim Cook (with sugar on top))...."

PS--Windows 10 is actually not a bad OS. I use it solely for gaming. And, it's fine. So, it's not like Windows is so terrible that you would rather use Premiere (as an example) on a Mac. And, you want TR3 for more cores or something because you think it will be better than what Intel will offer with Cascade Lake...

PSP--Seriously, honest question above. And, I'm curious if anyone has a reasonable, non-hype, non-fanboyish, non-speculative, honest reply!

 

[Boil]

Am I naive or too dumb to comprehend the wish of Apple implementing Threadripper 3 on a Mac as oppose to what will be Cascade Lake?

Do you think a Mac Pro TR3 will be cheaper? Faster? What app on a Mac do you need that Windows won't have, in which to build a TR3 PC, albeit cheaper than, if Apple had build one for the masses?

I'm just curious...

It feels almost troll-ish, IMO, to be like "Threadripper 3, please (Mr. Tim Cook (with sugar on top))...."

PS--Windows 10 is actually not a bad OS. I use it solely for gaming. And, it's fine. So, it's not like Windows is so terrible that you would rather use Premiere (as an example) on a Mac. And, you want TR3 for more cores or something because you think it will be better than what Intel will offer with Cascade Lake...

PSP--Seriously, honest question above. And, I'm curious if anyone has a reasonable, non-hype, non-fanboyish, non-speculative, honest reply!

More cores, more PCIe lanes, PCIe 4.0, faster RAM support, faster storage, faster NVMe RAIDs, lower cost, better efficiency, better integration with ProRender...

As for macOS versus Windows, I have used both over the past 45 years that I have been using computers (along with CM/P, DOS, Irix, various Linux,etc.) and I just prefer macOS...

 

[namethisfile]

More cores, more PCIe lanes, PCIe 4.0, faster RAM support, faster storage, faster NVMe RAIDs, lower cost, better efficiency, better integration with ProRender...

As for macOS versus Windows, I have used both over the past 45 years that I have been using computers (along with CM/P, DOS, Irix, various Linux,etc.) and I just prefer macOS...

ProRender...

dot, dot, dot...

Wait... is that all I need to say?

Anyway, I am going to give you the BOD (Benefit of the Doubt) about your everything is better and faster claims since TR3 is not out, nor is Cascade Lake.

Maybe, if you say, "Thread 'the' Ripper 3" three times in front of a mirror, your wish will come true!

Good luck, man!

 

[kiiso]

More cores, more PCIe lanes, PCIe 4.0, faster RAM support, faster storage, faster NVMe RAIDs, lower cost, better efficiency, better integration with ProRender...

As for macOS versus Windows, I have used both over the past 45 years that I have been using computers (along with CM/P, DOS, Irix, various Linux,etc.) and I just prefer macOS...

Even PCIe 3.0 has little advantage over 2.0 in real world scenarios (GPU performance-wise).

 

[Macintosh IIcx]

That is why Apple will use Cascade Lake Xeon W and not SP.

I most certainly hope so!

 

[Peace]

Apple is not going to hurt it's relationship with Intel so any dream of AMD CPU is just that. A dream.

 

[Boil]

ProRender...

dot, dot, dot...

Wait... is that all I need to say?

Anyway, I am going to give you the BOD (Benefit of the Doubt) about your everything is better and faster claims since TR3 is not out, nor is Cascade Lake.

Maybe, if you say, "Thread 'the' Ripper 3" three times in front of a mirror, your wish will come true!

Good luck, man!

Yeah, I will keep wishing for an AMD Mac Pro until I know otherwise.

dot, Dot, DOT...!!!

Even PCIe 3.0 has little advantage over 2.0 in real world scenarios (GPU performance-wise).

For GPUs maybe, but for storage, how does 15GB/s read/writes sound? That would be from a RAID card that holds four PCIe 4.0 x4 NVMe M.2 SSDs & takes full advantage of a PCIe 4.0 x16 slot

 

[ReanimationLP]

Apple is not going to hurt it's relationship with Intel so any dream of AMD CPU is just that. A dream.

You sure about that? I mean, the same relationship that caused them to have to settle with QC for billions of dollars just to get back on track for 5G?

 

[Peace]

You sure about that? I mean, the same relationship that caused them to have to settle with QC for billions of dollars just to get back on track for 5G?

Intel giving up on a 5G chip isnt what made Apple settle. They were gonna lose anyway. Now they have that chip guaranteed for the future.

Not to mention the different instruction sets needed.

 

[Simon R.]

I know what Modular means now. It means PCIE 5.0!

Final spec for PCIE 5.0 was just released. Meaning it's possible that Apple could be ahead of the curve

Apple haven't been ahead of the curve regarding computers since 2006. Totally unlikely.