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MP 7,1 Waiting for Mac Pro 7,1 A1991 (no more)
- Thread starter Mago
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Perhaps if goMac had used one, my post would be unnecessary.
My post was not sarcastic Consoles aren't good at workstation tasks, and workstations struggle to match consoles at native games.
But yes, sarcasm needs an emoticon.
RELEASE THE PRICING SO I KNOW WHAT TO PLAN FOR
The "extra" PCI-e lanes to the server PCH only enables Intel's highly coupled 10GbE solution. It doesn't provision any more SATA or raw PCI-e bandwidth to the rest of the PCH.
That server PCH in the Mac Pro is probably not doing much of anything. First, it is a bit of a mismatch between the Xeon W 3200 series which exposes the x16 Intel normally reserved off for OmniPath workloads. To fold those back into the PCH only incrementally drops the W 3200 back to the 'older' CPU PCI-e count limits. Second, you'd be pulling lanes and bandwidth from either these secondary slots in the MPX bays or the others outside the bays. ( The Mac Pro over provisions CPU lanes even with 64 lanes. How exactly it is carved up will get cleared up by the eventual leakage of the function block diagram, but that it is over provisioned is just some arithmetic. )
( It is likely Apple is using same 10GbE controllers are used in iMac Pro. And like the iMac Pro the 10GbE would be segregated off the PCH altogether anyway. ).
AMD doesn't solve much of anything because they are coupled to their equivalent of the PCH in pretty much the same way in terms of boot process. The AMD CPU having a internal switch similar to the PCH's to "blow out " a broad fan out doesn't solve the problem function match problem much at all. And even with the AMD packages that embed the PCH into the CPU package, still have much the same base issue pin wise.
T2 is still a PCI-e v3 device and won't work any different in mobile context ( where AMD also isn't rolling out PCI-e v4 everywhere any time soon. )
And as much as AMD has had boot/firmware issues to sort out on the latest Ryzen solutions with PCI-e v4 ... it isn't clearly better. Again T2's primary missing is boot/firmware security. If boot/firmware is a bumpy road then the T2 isn't going to be in a better place.
Those are not two NVMe drive. Those are just two cards that hold NAND chips. Those NAND daughter cards coupled to the T2 together compose a storage drive. Independent of the T2, they aren't a "drive".
Not necessarily faster as faster isn't necessarily the only relevant criteria. The two cards are just an easier way to get to eight NAND chips (as opposed to using twice as dense 4 chips on a single card. So cost is one of those other criteria.). With 3D packing it is possible to put what used to be 8 NAND chips worth of dies into just 4 chips (packages). However, also have more heat interaction impacts too. (it isn't a totally f'ree' ride). Apple probably gets some thermal flexibility here too by spreading out the load.
If you spread the write load over 8 NAND chips then the wear impact will be lower on each than if just 4 had to burden all the load. Fast data access doesn't matter much if your encrypted data is gone. If look at the specs for the MBP's the throughput is just about the same.
Apple doesn't talk explicitly about drive endurance so it is hard to tell if they are getting something substantively better on the iMac Pro and Mac Pro than their soldered down and small enclosure designs. I suspect they are .
The base price would just cost more. Look at the RAM. There are two empty memory channels on the base configuration. They are empty to lower the price point. ( or from another perspective boost Apple's margins. ). Similar to the MP 2013 which gimped the RAM DIMM number and shaved off VRAM off the D300 GPUs to limbo in under $3,000. Apple is shaving stuff off to limbo under $6 here. Base costs for the rest of the system , cost recovery for bundled software and future upgrades , and whatever else Apple wants to pile on top ( I suspect there is a some "low production volume" tax tossed in here too) .
This thread's poll probably has some sampling bias in it but it is probably indicative.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/how-much-budget-are-you-saving-for-the-nnmp.2196832/
Most Mac Pro buyers aren't going to be the entry model. That "extra" 256GB isn't going to make that "screw these prices I'm sticking with what I got" folks to move at all. There is much bigger block in $7-10k zone ( who will just pay for the 1TB drive). Those are the folks that the max out wall outlet power supply , mexed out DIMM bank , max out PCI-e slots and maxed out other infrastructure cost add ons are geared for. So Apple trimmed off stuff from what those to loop in some folks who don't need all that but more of an "empty box" to fill with stuff they do have. Not the folks who are just outside the price zone looking in.
The iMac Pro doesn't even use 256GB blades ( its base is two 512GB ones. ). So these are kind of odd ball NAND blades anyway. My guess is that they are part of some either bullk NAND chip buy for another Mac product or coupled to component costs for some iOS/iPad Pro product.
It isn't the MP7,1 that the article pegs as a key group tightly coupled to $3K. It is the folks out in the cold ( because the MP7,1 isn't $3k ... that's why they are out in the cold; because there is no Mac product directly in their market subset. ).
The article is using mostly the same framework as the $1-2K xMac crowd has classically made. Apple could sell so many more if they just made a cheaper box with slots in the sub $2k zone. There is just yet another new group ; $3-4K ( or Apple has caused a bigger group to form that spans a broader range).
Apple isn't trying to sell everything to everybody. They also are not trying to sell only to the exact same folks from 10-15 years ago either. ( the essentially dropped most of the sub $1K mini market. dropped the dual CPU package only crowd too. )
The ProRes setting shouldn't make a different. If the data is in ProRes file then Afterburner should help. One of the benefits Afterburner is suppose to enable is not having to deal with proxies anymore. That part won't be a total win ( will need space for both originals and ProRes files, but not huge capacity pigs like 4K-8K RAW files. ). You'll have to convert to ProRes422HQ. ( if the original clips are not RAW you have whatever effects that conversion is but once past that wouldn't need lower ProRes fidelity proxy files.).
On a new Mac Pro , ProRes422HQ shouldn't be cause much drama. Especially on just 1-2 concurrent camera streams. Afterburner could be incrementally faster but whether that was a difference worth paying a lot for would be the question.
Pragmatically it takes up only one slot. The MPX bays consist of two, double wides slots. It is two standard slot widths wide but there isn't more than one slot in that double wide space.
It won't fit in another but a MPX bay so mapping it back into standard single slots notation is going off into the weeds.
remember how the MP 2013 port labels lit up if did a sit-and-spin with that system. (most folks don't). I suspect wheels for this Mac Pro are going to be just about as useful.
I'd bet the price of some wheels that most of the folks asking about wheels in these forums don't actually need wheels on their Mac Pro.
Pragmatically as a generic everyday user? No. First, those aren't SSDs. They are a subcomponent of an SSD. So there is nothing "off the shelf" about them. If you were attemp to replace the internal components of a mainstream SSD you'd need to reset that SSD because it would be wiped out at that point internal integrity wise. Same thing for T2 SSD. It appears the reset process involves an Apple tool. So no random Joe Blow isn't going to do it.
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I am wondering if he is asking if there will be any option of upgrading the SSDs using Apple's products in the future or is he stuck with his purchased SSD configuration forever like some apple computers.
You will be able to add storage internally using the PCIe slots at least.
But the blades that come with are likely using the custom connectors used in the iMac Pro, and won’t be compatible with M.2 drives. Apple has never sold these separately before either.
I suspect adapters like these will be popular for aftermarket SSD upgrades if you don’t want full-blown RAID:
QNINE [Upgraded] NVME Adapter with Heat Sink, High Performance PCI Express 3.0 x4 to M.2 PCIe SSD (Key M) Card, Support PCIe x4 x8 x16 Slot
QNINE [Upgraded] NVME Adapter with Heat Sink, High Performance PCI Express 3.0 x4 to M.2 PCIe SSD (Key M) Card, Support PCIe x4 x8 x16 Slot
www.amazon.com
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You won't be able to update the 8Tb SSD configuration later that comes with the ordered setup? What if Apple offers a 20Tb SSD later... will you be able to switch out or are you stuck with the 8Tb SSDs forever?You will be able to add storage internally using the PCIe slots at least.
But the blades that come with are likely using the custom connectors used in the iMac Pro, and won’t be compatible with M.2 drives. Apple has never sold these separately before either.
I suspect adapters like these will be popular for aftermarket SSD upgrades if you don’t want full-blown RAID:
QNINE [Upgraded] NVME Adapter with Heat Sink, High Performance PCI Express 3.0 x4 to M.2 PCIe SSD (Key M) Card, Support PCIe x4 x8 x16 Slot
QNINE [Upgraded] NVME Adapter with Heat Sink, High Performance PCI Express 3.0 x4 to M.2 PCIe SSD (Key M) Card, Support PCIe x4 x8 x16 Slotwww.amazon.com
As an Amazon Associate, MacRumors earns a commission from qualifying purchases made through links in this post.
I've made my mind up and I'm buying one - then do upgrades over time.
1st - buy 16C + 1TB + 32GB (guess $8400)
2nd - save up some more then buy XDR matte + mount + arm ($6300)
3rd - save up some more then get 2 x Radeon VII or Vega II Duo (guess $2000) - this should give Octane X and Redshift devs enough time to finish developing
4th - save up some more then get six x 16GB ram (about $500)
I'm in UK so you can change $ symbol to £ symbol for conversion
For other UK freelancers / companies — I asked my accountant about this purchase and he said I will get corporations tax relief on this at 19%. And also I'll be able to claim back the VAT of 20%. And also I'm planning to buy it from apple student website as my partner is doing a PHD, so hopefully another 10% off there.
So that makes a discount of 61% in all. So in real money I'll have to pay £5124 for a retail £8400 system. Makes the purchase a bit less mental.
Apple release your BTO & kit pricing!
1st - buy 16C + 1TB + 32GB (guess $8400)
2nd - save up some more then buy XDR matte + mount + arm ($6300)
3rd - save up some more then get 2 x Radeon VII or Vega II Duo (guess $2000) - this should give Octane X and Redshift devs enough time to finish developing
4th - save up some more then get six x 16GB ram (about $500)
I'm in UK so you can change $ symbol to £ symbol for conversion
For other UK freelancers / companies — I asked my accountant about this purchase and he said I will get corporations tax relief on this at 19%. And also I'll be able to claim back the VAT of 20%. And also I'm planning to buy it from apple student website as my partner is doing a PHD, so hopefully another 10% off there.
So that makes a discount of 61% in all. So in real money I'll have to pay £5124 for a retail £8400 system. Makes the purchase a bit less mental.
Apple release your BTO & kit pricing!
How can that possibly work?
Surely the moment you tell Apple you want a tax invoice issued to your legal company/business name, they're going to question how a business can be a student?
I've made my mind up and I'm buying one - then do upgrades over time.
1st - buy 16C + 1TB + 32GB (guess $8400)
2nd - save up some more then buy XDR matte + mount + arm ($6300)
3rd - save up some more then get 2 x Radeon VII or Vega II Duo (guess $2000) - this should give Octane X and Redshift devs enough time to finish developing
4th - save up some more then get six x 16GB ram (about $500)
I'm in UK so you can change $ symbol to £ symbol for conversion
For other UK freelancers / companies — I asked my accountant about this purchase and he said I will get corporations tax relief on this at 19%. And also I'll be able to claim back the VAT of 20%. And also I'm planning to buy it from apple student website as my partner is doing a PHD, so hopefully another 10% off there.
So that makes a discount of 61% in all. So in real money I'll have to pay £5124 for a retail £8400 system. Makes the purchase a bit less mental.
Apple release your BTO & kit pricing!
Does it make sense to save the Ram in the beginning? I would get the smallest possible Ram config and buy 128 gb 3rd party ram initially. The 16 cores will be choked on 32gb on any kind of rendering. If I render something on my 8core 6.1, almost the entire 64gb are filled all the time...
To be faaaaaaaaaiiiiiirrrr, you can’t really do high frame rates on game consoles, either.
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Sounds like piracy to me!!!
As I said, Apple uses custom blades and hasn’t ever sold them. If you can get them second hand, it should work, but who is going to sell them second hand if nobody can buy upgrades from Apple after the sale? Really only folks parting out dead machines years from now.
But at the same time, you aren’t going to be locked into the Apple SSD to boot. Buy either an adapter card or RAID card for M.2 PCIe SSDs and load that up instead. With something like this you can get faster speeds than what the Apple SSDs are even capable of via RAID0:
I did it for my MacPro2013 and it worked fine. I think I just bought it under my personal name and my business repaid the cost of the expense. For that one I had another friend who is a lecturer so had access to the apple education store. I'm sure even with the 10% off student discount apple is still making a lot of money on these.
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Thanks for the tip. Yeah maybe 3rd party ram sooner than later is good idea. How do you know if your ram is filled or not? I presumed for normal C4D rendering ram wasn't a massive deal, but I'd love to be educated differently! And more ram will definitely help After Effects from what I've read.
Not sure if youre being sarcastic. If you employ a PhD student, and they need a laptop. You tell them to buy a laptop. They put in an expense report and you compensate them for it. Seems pretty straight forward.
I think the moment game console comparisons appear this thread has really gone off the rails!
2020 Will be specially critical for Apple's future with iPhone demand declining and a partially addressed Pro-market Tim's challenge are not simple.
Worst weakness are:
AI and ML/DL, no body even consider using Apple's framework in research, that should be alarming, despite how much money apple put an poaching Google AI staff, no progress is visible, 2018 they promised Tensorfow GPU support, in 2019 it only arrived at Tensorfow lite only for inference, PyTorch (the massively favorite framework in ml research) not even named.
There is another new trend apple barely embracing with afterburner aic: fpga accelerators, while there are an independent Opensource toolchain for fpga in macOS it is intended to hobbyist, there should be an entire division of apple working to offer Xcode fpga toolchain development support, either supporting Intel Altera SyCL or Xilinx Virus, etc
Sometimes you can swim against the stream.
Worst weakness are:
AI and ML/DL, no body even consider using Apple's framework in research, that should be alarming, despite how much money apple put an poaching Google AI staff, no progress is visible, 2018 they promised Tensorfow GPU support, in 2019 it only arrived at Tensorfow lite only for inference, PyTorch (the massively favorite framework in ml research) not even named.
There is another new trend apple barely embracing with afterburner aic: fpga accelerators, while there are an independent Opensource toolchain for fpga in macOS it is intended to hobbyist, there should be an entire division of apple working to offer Xcode fpga toolchain development support, either supporting Intel Altera SyCL or Xilinx Virus, etc
Sometimes you can swim against the stream.