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refers to the system unit itself.
So what is a z2 mini entry vs z2 mini performance vs z2 mini high performance? They’re all z2 mini form factor.

Really? This is a concern to you? How HP has labeled the RAID configuration area on the customization page? Really?

You don’t see a problem labelling RAID in general but particularly RAID 0 as a “backup” solution?

I guess you also have no issue with Cadbury marketing their creme eggs as “health food”?
 

The Catch-22 for Apple is that is just going to throw more gasoline on the fire that there is no BTO pricing. If they are making them. And openly document that they are making them with a small dog and pony show.... how do they not know how much they will cost? ( we'll they do but what's the "surprise and delight" secret they are trying to protect ? ). Second, if just making mostly empty boxes then could be actually configuring them to what folks actually want to buy if simply just took pre-orders.

If Apple does with the Mac Pro what they are no doing with the iMac Pro there is only one fixed base configuration. The rest are all BTO. [ Apple could be guessing at what folks want, but wouldn't it a substantially better if they explicitly asked what people want? The latter is extremely likely to be more accurate and probably "greener" since not going through assembly line twice. ]
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But...we have a photo of Calvin Harris's mac pro to keep us engaged and satisfied ! Yay!

Apple is pragmatically distributing more pictures themselves. The tease here coupled to the extremely lateness is becoming indicative that Apple has about zero shame in being so ridiculously late.
 
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from the "Apple expands in Austin" Apple Press article...

"Mac Pro units are now in production in Austin and will soon ship to customers across the Americas"

Does this actually mean that the Americas will get Mac Pros first, and the rest of the world at a later date?

Maybe thats a good thing so I don't rush buy?
Reviewers can almost benchmark these! - i9 iMac v Base Mac Pro who's gonna win?
 
from the "Apple expands in Austin" Apple Press article...

"Mac Pro units are now in production in Austin and will soon ship to customers across the Americas"

Does this actually mean that the Americas will get Mac Pros first, and the rest of the world at a later date?

Some are interpreting that to there will be another plant for the non Americas. Perhaps Apple may have cooked up some short term contract to off-load some of the initial demand bubble to another factory ( e.g., the one they moved the production back to Austin too after initially planning to toss Austin. ). Not sure why there would be two after get to steady state demand. Another factor could be that one will have rack Mac Pros and the other the tower versions. IF the expected "rack" volume is high enough (even though substantively lower ) that could happen also.


But yes it could be that the initial demand bubble versus supply mismatch is predicted to be so high that Apple will roll out to a limited set of countries first and then after the initial wave in those first countries then out to other places in the world. Places where the US $ has a high exchange rate the Mac Pro demand there is going to be substantively weaker there anyway. I think there area also Apple websites in other languages that still had the old Mac Pro up on Apple's website instead of the new one. ( that too would be indicative of a planned phased roll out. ). And also that the rack version doesn't appear until the initial large demand bubble is gone also.


Reviewers can almost benchmark these! - i9 iMac v Base Mac Pro who's gonna win?

On tech porn single threaded drag racing benchmarks? The i9. If way different budget and not matching core counts exactly, the bigger core count will most likely win in multiple core. It is basically the same microarchitecture so if the algorithm can spread out in more concurrent work done, then it will do better. And the Mac Pro isn't going to win the cheapest wrapper you can enclose a fixed 6-8 core CPU into contest.


A overall system benchmark outside of a myopically focused on the just the CPU is going to do better at illuminating the value difference between mainstream 27" iMac and this system.
 
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"Mac Pro units are now in production in Austin and will soon ship to customers across the Americas" - Does this actually mean that the Americas will get Mac Pros first, and the rest of the world at a later date?
Some are interpreting that to there will be another plant for the non Americas.

Apple does have a major Mac assembly facility in (Cork?) Ireland that feeds much of the EU. Did that facility ever produce the 5,1 and/or 6,1 Mac Pros? If so, the EU machines might be assembled there.
 
The paradox of choice is an absolute reality. Only fools believe more choices are always better (or that they are immune to such pressures.)

I am not a fool, I simply have an IQ above room temperature.

More choice means the computer works for me and my workflow - I am not required to shoehorn my workflow into one system that may or not be optimized for my workflow.
 
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Apple does have a major Mac assembly facility in (Cork?) Ireland that feeds much of the EU. Did that facility ever produce the 5,1 and/or 6,1 Mac Pros? If so, the EU machines might be assembled there.

If I recall correctly they did some narrow subset of iMacs. 6,1's no. I think they did do some configuring though of some products (just not the 6,1 ).

Perhaps part of the issue here is just how much Austin is just a final assembly point. If the task is reduced down to simply just plugging in build to order options off a base completed systems, that may pop up in some place like Cork or Taiwan .

( for example it wouldn't be surprising if Apple kept the MP case production close to another place that made recycled aluminum cases for other Macs. Drilling all those holes creates a bunch of scrap. ) .

The problem though for the Mac Pro is that the steady state volume is likely so low that really not going to need multiple sites to keep up with production. ( something in China would be more so driven by trade war counter strike drama than need. )

The notion though that need cheap labor to drive down prices in other countries .... I doubt Apple is boing to birth a huge grey market for Mac Pro's.
 
from the "Apple expands in Austin" Apple Press article...

"Mac Pro units are now in production in Austin and will soon ship to customers across the Americas"

Does this actually mean that the Americas will get Mac Pros first, and the rest of the world at a later date?

Maybe thats a good thing so I don't rush buy?
Reviewers can almost benchmark these! - i9 iMac v Base Mac Pro who's gonna win?

They've been in production A LOT longer than just now...
 
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I am not a fool, I simply have an IQ above room temperature.

More choice means the computer works for me and my workflow - I am not required to shoehorn my workflow into one system that may or not be optimized for my workflow.

Except you are being affected by the paradox of choice. If every other manufacturer only offered the same hardware permutations Apple did then you would just pick MacOS/Windows/Linux along with your favorite permutation of available hardware and be done. But instead you have so many choices that you have FOMO about trade-offs between other hardware vendors and MacOS, pretty much the definition of paradox of choice. Now you are paralyzed remaining on an Apple forum rather than being thrilled with a Windows box and heading over to live happily on www.windowscentral.com

😉
 
The problem though for the Mac Pro is that the steady state volume is likely so low that really not going to need multiple sites to keep up with production.

I think you'd be pleasantly surprised by the volume of Mac Pro that Apple is able to sell. With this newest iteration, anyone who went to Windows is more than likely going to be coming back to macOS and the Mac Pro.
 
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You don’t see a problem labelling RAID in general but particularly RAID 0 as a “backup” solution?
Not really as I expect anyone who selects this option knows what RAID is an what the different levels mean.
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The paradox of choice is an absolute reality. Only fools believe more choices are always better (or that they are immune to such pressures.)
I have to say that you must really struggle in life given all the choices you have to make. If picking and choosing options is too difficult for you then HP does offer pre-configured systems which you can buy. No need to select your individual components.
 
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I think you'd be pleasantly surprised by the volume of Mac Pro that Apple is able to sell. With this newest iteration, anyone who went to Windows is more than likely going to be coming back to macOS and the Mac Pro.

Disagree. It will sell less than the 1,1-5,1 Mac Pros.
 
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Not really as I expect anyone who selects this option knows what RAID is an what the different levels mean.
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I have to say that you must really struggle in life given all the choices you have to make. If picking and choosing options is too difficult for you then HP does offer pre-configured systems which you can buy. No need to select your individual components.

I think part of the genius of Steve Jobs was paring the product catalog way back and offering far less choice on mainline systems. If people are given a good/better/best choice studies have found those folks more readily purchase and have higher satisfaction with their selection (theory being that with more selections people focus on what they missed out on and second guess their choices). I think that holds true for the more commodity items. MacBook Air, iMac, even a lot (I'd venture to say the majority) of MacBook Pro customers very likely benefit from that approach. There's probably another study out there somewhere but my also gut tells me it doesn't hold up as well as you venture into the realm of highly knowledgeable users looking for utility to accomplish specific tasks (e.g. "pros"). Someone who reads email, browses the web, authors documents, and uses spreadsheets, no problem. Someone who has specific compute requirements for demanding workflows (film, 3D render, etc...) often has a very specific set of requirements and wants to tailor their tool to the task. My team knows roughly what they need in terms of GPU/CPU/RAM/storage/AIC/etc... to get their job done and often some of those items will be in a much higher level than others; that's where good/better/best breaks down in my opinion.

I'm going to sound like I'm contradicting myself for a moment here though. They still don't necessarily have very specific requirements in terms of individual component parts. I get feedback like "the 18 core systems are working out much better for us than the tens did," and, "32GB is really constraining on memory." I don't get requests like "we need 10TFlops of compute and 67.5GB of available memory for optimum efficiency" or even "I need a W-3265, 128GB @2933, and two Quadra RTX8000s." We may arrive at something like that but my experience has been that people start with what they need to accomplish, compare to reference points they understand, and then back into a set of components that meets the need. No one on my team is telling me they specifically need two Pro Vega IIs, they're comparing their workload on existing hardware and knowing where the bottlenecks are and asking for those areas to be beefed up in the next round of hardware, then we arrive where we do. Whether it's AMD or Nvidia or any specific model of either just doesn't matter to them (although for the small subsection that feels they need CUDA, I get that to an extent but I think beyond brand loyalty that would change for most of them as soon as they had an option to ASICs that do the job better, which will happen, and already it happening - I even highly suspect that "I need CUDA" is more often spouted from gamers that have never touched an ML tool than it is from actual direct users of CUDA).

At the risk of going (further) round and round here, I think most general compute consumers are better off with less choice as unlikely as that sounds but as the level of expertise rises so does the need for flexibility but moreso flexibility in outcome rather than SKU variants. I hope I'm communicating my thoughts well enough to be understood.

PS I find a lot of storage consumers have zero idea what the various RAID levels are and many (perhaps most) think it serves the roll of backup (and are then devastated when they lose an array). I bet you'd find a lot of workstation and NAS buyers who just associated RAID 0 with fast and thus best and don't understand that they lose fault tolerance with the approach.
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Disagree. It will sell less than the 1,1-5,1 Mac Pros.

I agree with you but I think that's just fine. Changing OSes can be a big deal. Investments in time and money on various software solutions far eclipse hardware investments in a lot of situations. Those that went to Windows aren't just going to turn on a dime and come back to MacOS because there's a new system that performs great.

That said, Apple doesn't care if it sells less than 1,1 to 5,1 and shouldn't. A lot of that audience is now served by other Apple products (MBP, iMac Pro, Mac Mini, even standard iMac). A good chunk of those who aren't and are not in the target demographic for the modular Mac Pro aren't Apple's intended audience anyway. People who want to stuff things into an affordable box and string it along for ten years are not the customers Apple is chasing. Cold hard truth. Many of them are venting about moving off of Apple, that's fine, Apple won't miss them.
 
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Disagree. It will sell less than the 1,1-5,1 Mac Pros.

I think this is complicated.

It will probably sell less than the 5,1 because customers will be unsure what Apple's support plans are.

If Apple does a good job rolling upgrades in a reasonable amount of time, I think the 8,1 will probably outsell the 5,1.

The issues aren't really the machine itself. It's that not everyone trusts Apple right now. Apple has to fix everyone's trust, not the box.

If they can deliver and gain everyone's confidence, it's a pretty compelling box compared to the competition. Stuff like Afterburner and MPX could be pretty competitive.
 
Problem #1:

It's going to ship with MacOS Catalina. Maybe that's why it's taking so long - waiting for the MacOS team to get their OS in order.
 
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So MacPro made front page today with the glimpses of production in the factory.
What exactly are they building? The Cases? Or do they prebuild some configs. Does anyone have insight on that?
 
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So MacPro made front page today with the glimpses of production in the factory.
What exactly are they building? The Cases? Or do they prebuild some configs. Does anyone have insight on that?
The models you saw on the assembly line were fully finished models. They are in the standard configs that will supply most Apple store locations. BTO options are not being assembled yet. You can expect many of those on the line are base models.
 
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The models you saw on the assembly line were fully finished models. They are in the standard configs that will supply most Apple store locations. BTO options are not being assembled yet. You can expect many of those on the line are base models.

I'm sure we'll see two, maybe three standard models carried in the stores. It'll be interesting to see how quickly they can get models with the Radeon VII MPX modules out the door. It will also be interesting to see what the cost is for one outside of ordering it with the system.

Lots of interesting things coming....I was thinking...will the 580X in the 7,1 work in the 5,1? Hmm...
 
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I'm sure we'll see two, maybe three standard models carried in the stores. It'll be interesting to see how quickly they can get models with the Radeon VII MPX modules out the door. It will also be interesting to see what the cost is for one outside of ordering it with the system.

Lots of interesting things coming....I was thinking...will the 580X in the 7,1 work in the 5,1? Hmm...
Probably not as you would have to break it out of the MPX module.
 
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Apple has 500+ retail locations. Every store will (eventually) have at least one for in-store demos and initially at least a few for the stockroom (especially in larger volume locations) in whatever standard BTO configs are available. They will need to stockpile at least 1,000 units just for day one availability, plus whatever their resellers and high spending corporate business clients have basically pre-ordered (or promised to order). That is not even anticipating what actual customer pre-orders/orders might be initially.
 
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Apple has 500+ retail locations. Every store will (eventually) have at least one for in-store demos and initially at least a few for the stockroom (especially in larger volume locations) in whatever standard BTO configs are available. They will need to stockpile at least 1,000 units just for day one availability, plus whatever their resellers and high spending corporate business clients have basically pre-ordered (or promised to order). That is not even anticipating what actual customer pre-orders/orders might be initially.

They've been in production for a while, longer than Apple is leading on.
 
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