What for would they do this?
Guys. Its way cheaper and less problematic to switch CPU vendors than to switch from x86 to completely different architecture, that you would see performance degradation in anything that is serious.
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Waiting for the 2020 MBP
- Thread starter Dulcimer
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Guys. Its way cheaper and less problematic to switch CPU vendors than to switch from x86 to completely different architecture, that you would see performance degradation in anything that is serious.
Schiller was asked that and his response was something to the effect of “don’t read too much into the 16 inch thing.” This was on a Jonathan Morrison YouTube interview
That's an obvious answer; no-one at Apple is going to openly admit to an unreleased product.
i dont know why people keep saying there will be a 14". While going from 15 to 16 may imply it, it doesn't mean anything. the 13" focuses on portability. theyd have to make it even larger compared to going 15-> 16. coupled with the fact that Kuo has said theyre keeping the 13", this 14" rumor going around isn't really based on any "factual" informaiton
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The standard answer is "we don't discuss unreleased or upcoming products." I mean, I get your point, for sure, but I haven't seen any concrete rumors indicating a 14 inch is coming. We saw a lot of smoke about the 16 inch tho.
Who knows, you could be right ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Yeah, it's just a lot of assumptions they're going to 14.
Most 13" Windows PC with a bezel shrink moved to 14" look at Zenbook and Huawei Matebook.
I mean it makes sense especially with 16:10 aspect ratio would be pretty cool.
Are there any "hard" rumors on a new MBP13/14? I'd love a 13-14 with discrete GPU, good thermals, the new keyboard... and that would pretty much tick off all my boxes. ;-)
Not that I'm not happy with my MBP13 (2019), but that new keyboard... mmmmmm.
Not that I'm not happy with my MBP13 (2019), but that new keyboard... mmmmmm.
Ok so now we should be getting a mini LED model in late 2020 according to Kuo (actually his previous guidance was late 2020-mid 2021, so this is in line with that). I know he is sometimes a little out on timings, but I had a feeling this might be an interim model before we get a full redesign with significant new features - the only question is will the late 2020 be it, or is it just an (unusual) new hardware feature outside of a redesign? My assumption is if it is a redesign this soon after the 16" released, it will be a new ARM line to run alongside the existing one.
We could see some hybrid models down the road. I bought mine from Amazon so I can always return my 16... I don't know so far I'm loving it.
I probably wouldn't advise returning it if you already have it and it's working for you, I'm a bit indecisive, it will after all be a gen 1 product if it's a redesign and I'm a little wary of that... OTOH HDR is a feature I'd really like to have for my next machine!
I doubt the current design is going anywhere, so don't get your hopes up for a new form factor.
https://www.techpowerup.com/261611/...es-in-core-counts-up-to-8-gen12-igpu-included
According to this leak by the end of next year 2020 or maybe 2021 we could have:
13": Tiger Lake 10nm 28W CPUs with 4 cores and 8 threads, Gen 12 graphics with up to 96 EU and up to 32GB of LPDDR4x RAM
16": The same CPUs as the current models...
According to this leak by the end of next year 2020 or maybe 2021 we could have:
13": Tiger Lake 10nm 28W CPUs with 4 cores and 8 threads, Gen 12 graphics with up to 96 EU and up to 32GB of LPDDR4x RAM
16": The same CPUs as the current models...
I expect an actual full redesign once 10/7nm 45W CPUs are available. Right now thermals prevent Apple from doing much. The form factor is decided by thermals and battery, both of which have already been pushed too far by the Butterfly MBP to the point where they had to go back. With 10nm, we'll be able to go thinner and lighter once again, as the thermals and efficiency will be much improved.
Until then all Apple will do is drop yearly incremental updates for this semi-redesign (faceID and improved webcam, MiniLED display, and if they need to appease the masses... an SD card slot? jk)
I don't see ARM coming to the 16" anytime soon. They'll do it step by step I think, starting with the most casual devices first like the Air. For it to not be huge flop in a Pro machine, it'll need to match intel's CPUs in pro apps and that will take some time.
Until then all Apple will do is drop yearly incremental updates for this semi-redesign (faceID and improved webcam, MiniLED display, and if they need to appease the masses... an SD card slot? jk)
I don't see ARM coming to the 16" anytime soon. They'll do it step by step I think, starting with the most casual devices first like the Air. For it to not be huge flop in a Pro machine, it'll need to match intel's CPUs in pro apps and that will take some time.
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Considering that Intel's Rocket Lake is 14 nm backport of 10 nm Willow Cove architecture, I would not hope for a redesign before 2022, based on this
.No new process till at the very least 2022, at least from Intel.
https://www.techpowerup.com/261611/...es-in-core-counts-up-to-8-gen12-igpu-included
According to this leak by the end of next year 2020 or maybe 2021 we could have:
13": Tiger Lake 10nm 28W CPUs with 4 cores and 8 threads, Gen 12 graphics with up to 96 EU and up to 32GB of LPDDR4x RAM
16": The same CPUs as the current models...
32GB in a 13” or 14” form interests me. I’m doing more audio production tasks at work these days so I would prefer at least that much RAM if I upgrade to a newer MBP. The new 16” is very nice. But I don’t need a discrete GPU. The extra screen space would be “nice to have” but the weight and portability are important factors.
I’m currently hobbling along with a 2009 MBP (bless its little Core2Duo) at work using it for word processing mainly. My main audio rig is a 2018 Mac Mini with 64GB RAM so the new MBP would allow me to be more mobile but have enough power when I’m away from the main DAW.
So my question is this: What are the chances of an early to mid-2020 13” or 14” MBP that will offer 32GB RAM? If it’s unlikely, I might as well get the 16” considering that the cost of a maxed 13” right now is relatively poor value.
Considering that Intel's Rocket Lake is 14 nm backport of 10 nm Willow Cove architecture, I would not hope for a redesign before 2022, based on this
No new process till at the very least 2022, at least from Intel.
and for those keeping track, Rocket Lake is what comes after Comet Lake. So two more generations of 14nm on 45W, H-series chips. Marginal IPC gains and some ported over platform improvements, like LPDDR4x with Comet Lake, are all we can hope for. Looking like next big upgrade is fall 2022. For now, Apple will add bells and whistles, like miniLED, to keep people interested.
In all honesty, I think an early 2021 13/14 MacBook Pros are going to be were it’s at for the medium term. They will be on 10nm for the second generation at that point and I’m betting Intel will have some big clock speed improvements on that “tock”. Plus notice that TDP gain for the U series as Onte creeps up the power envelope on 10nm. At least it will be a good spot for folks not needing a good dGPU, as CPU power will increase and LPDDR5 is going to give us some nice speed/capacities in the smaller form factor.
Good analysis and I agree AMD is not looking to make a modern 45W off-the-shelf part for laptops. But AMD would absolutely work with Apple under the same conditions they worked with Microsoft for the Surface--making a custom APU. That APU is still a full generation behind but I am willing to bet MS is looking forward with this partnership and that AMD and MS are working on a more modern APU right now.
That said, MS is probably doing a lot of the heavy lifting in power management, which I am not sure Apple would be willing to do. I'd guess Apple is also less willing to commit to AMD as a design partner when they are experimenting with ideas to make ARM work on laptops somehow. But I think it's totally possible, and it's not hard to imagine a Zen 2 + Navi APU that's competitive with Intel.
Second one. This still assumes Intel is on-track for 7nm.
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I have to say I think the 16” is terrific.
My understanding is the biggest remaining problem Intel have with 10nm is poor yields - I assume they are avoiding H series chips on 10nm because the demands on the chips are higher, and therefore the binning is stricter, which would compound a problem with getting satisfactory yields. If they're having to dump a high percentage of each wafer as unusable, it's gong to be difficult both to get the chips out in sufficient quantity, and more crucially for them to make money on that generation of chips.
I'm not sure about jumping to 7nm before they solve this problem - it's likely they will run into the same issue again if they do that. The biggest argument for jumping straight to 7nm is that 10nm is already starting to become old news with TSMC ready to move onto 5nm and AMD already at 7, so let alone something being released in 2021-22! While Intel's original 10nm chips should have been comparable to 7nm ones from other manufacturers due to higher transistor densities, I also understand what they are now putting out as their 10nm U series offering is significantly simplified and that is no longer the case.
My 16" (2.4 / 5500M (8GB) / 64 GB / 4 TB) is here, and it's extremely fast, with no immediately apparent build quality issues. The keyboard is great - best laptop keyboard I've used in years (trying to remember how it compares to pre-chicklet ThinkPads).
I posted a whole bunch of benchmarks in the benchmark thread - but it is within about 10% of a base iMac Pro in everything I have thrown at it. It's actually slightly faster than the fastest trash can Mac Pro in just about every task (going by published benchmarks on the iMac Pro and Mac Pro). The only Macs that can outrun it are the top CPU upgrade on the iMac, various versions of the iMac Pro, and of course the new Mac Pro when it arrives.
It is very price/performance competitive with top-end PC laptops, and going through the Geekbench 5 Browser for everything that uses the i9-9980HK, it's slightly faster than the Dell XPS 15/ Precision 5540 twins, significantly faster than the ZenBook Pro Duo and the HP Studio x360, somewhat slower than the heavy Dell Precision 7540 and 7740 workstations (and probably their Lenovo and HP equivalents, but those weren't in the Geekbench browser) and significantly slower than big 17" gaming laptops, many of which are probably overclocked.
If you remember what this thing is (a thin-and-light mobile workstation), it's a real beauty. If a thin and light mobile workstation meets your needs, it's a very good choice. If you need the extra 10% in performance (and somewhat more than that in GPU performance with certain options), the heavy mobile workstations are out there from a variety of PC vendors.
I posted a whole bunch of benchmarks in the benchmark thread - but it is within about 10% of a base iMac Pro in everything I have thrown at it. It's actually slightly faster than the fastest trash can Mac Pro in just about every task (going by published benchmarks on the iMac Pro and Mac Pro). The only Macs that can outrun it are the top CPU upgrade on the iMac, various versions of the iMac Pro, and of course the new Mac Pro when it arrives.
It is very price/performance competitive with top-end PC laptops, and going through the Geekbench 5 Browser for everything that uses the i9-9980HK, it's slightly faster than the Dell XPS 15/ Precision 5540 twins, significantly faster than the ZenBook Pro Duo and the HP Studio x360, somewhat slower than the heavy Dell Precision 7540 and 7740 workstations (and probably their Lenovo and HP equivalents, but those weren't in the Geekbench browser) and significantly slower than big 17" gaming laptops, many of which are probably overclocked.
If you remember what this thing is (a thin-and-light mobile workstation), it's a real beauty. If a thin and light mobile workstation meets your needs, it's a very good choice. If you need the extra 10% in performance (and somewhat more than that in GPU performance with certain options), the heavy mobile workstations are out there from a variety of PC vendors.
The 16" has been my favourite Mac in a loooooong time. They finally turned around to fix the issues that were plaguing the 15".
I mean if you looking to upgrade look no further than the 16" especially with how Intel is playing around with their mobile chips.
It's a great machine. I've been really happy with the base model. It's nice they give you 512 GB at the outset. The value proposition is much better that it was before. Keyboard is a dream to type on as well.