Waiting for the 2020 MBP

[Aquamite]

Apple Files Unreleased Mac in Eurasian Database, Perhaps a 13-Inch MacBook Pro With Scissor Keyboard?

Apple today filed an unreleased Mac with a model identifier of A2289 in the Eurasian Economic Commission database, as spotted by MacRumors. The...

www.macrumors.com

New Pro or Air?

 

[fokmik]

Probably both..since in March apple could release the 13" Mba AIR with 10th gen Intel 15W and 14" MBP with 26W Intel 10th gen

 

[MakeAppleAwesomeAgain]

10th gen Intel + scissor keyboard would be an instant buy for me.

 

[Bars_12]

Nobody knows... It would be nice, but I doubt those are coming this year.

That would be a bummer especially Wi-fi 6, which is being standardized this year.

 

[Viamusic10000]

Nobody knows... It would be nice, but I doubt those are coming this year.

Wifi 6 is included in the 10th gen intel chips

 

[Altherekho]

10th gen Intel + scissor keyboard would be an instant buy for me.

Me too.Is 10th gen Tiger Lake?

 

[ascender]

Speaking as someone who has had to go back to a 2018 13" from a 16", I'm really, really hoping this filing is for an updated 13" (or even better, a 14") with a scissor keyboard. Going back to the butterfly is a terrible experience and this is coming from someone who really didn't mind it before.

I can see why they'd not be able to or want to put some of the new 16" features in to the 13", but apart from the keyboard, smaller bezels & bigger screen are the one thing I hope they do - everyone can benefit from a larger screen and its where the whole market seems to be heading.

 

[adamcz]

I'd love to buy a 13 or 14" with scissor keys, escape key, and configurable with a real graphics card (like the 16"). If the 13 doesn't hit the mark I guess I can fall back to buying the 16" but I really like the smaller size & weight. I plug into a monitor anyway, so the screen size itself isn't a big advantage to me.

 

[PeterJP]

Same thing here, except for the dGPU which I don't immediately have a need for. And if they are upgrading the keyboard, can they get the optical one that Razer uses in the new Blade 15 Advanced? It sounds really good. Worst case, scissors will do
I honestly explored using the Razor for a while, but with Windows, I need to set up antivirus, anti-malware, Linux dev environment and a backup solution to even approximate what Apple gives out of the box. And then worry with each update that something may break. So no, thanks.

 

[Aquamite]

Predictions over the new 2020 MacBook Pro 13.3" coming this spring replacing the base model 2019 13.3" MBP according to the latest Intel CPU Ice Lake releases:



CPU new!

CURRENT MODEL:
1.4GHz quad‑core Intel Core i5-8257U Coffee Lake 15 W TDP, Turbo Boost up to 3.9GHz, with 128MB of eDRAM
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...-8257u-processor-6m-cache-up-to-3-90-ghz.html
Configurable to 1.7GHz quad‑core Intel Core i7-8557U Coffee Lake 15 W TDP, Turbo Boost up to 4.5GHz, with 128MB of eDRAM
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...-8557u-processor-8m-cache-up-to-4-50-ghz.html


NEW MODEL:
1.2GHz quad‑core Intel Core i5-1035G7 Ice Lake 15 W TDP, Turbo Boost up to 3.7GHz, with 6MB of L3 memory
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/196592/intel-core-i5-1035g7-processor-6m-cache-up-to-3-70-ghz.html
Configurable to 1.3GHz quad‑core Intel Core i7-1065G7 Ice Lake 15 W TDP, Turbo Boost up to 3.9GHz, with 8MB of L3 memory
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/196597/intel-core-i7-1065g7-processor-8m-cache-up-to-3-90-ghz.html



STORAGE same

CURRENT MODEL:
128GB SSD, 256GB, 512GB, 1TB, or 2TB SSD

NEW MODEL:
128GB SSD, 256GB, 512GB, 1TB, or 2TB SSD (MAYBE 4TB SSD)



MEMORY new!

CURRENT MODEL:
8GB of 2133MHz LPDDR3 onboard memory
Configurable to 16GB of memory


NEW MODEL:
8GB of 3733MHz LPDDR4 onboard memory
Configurable to 16GB of memory (32GB not likely)



GRAPHICS new!

CURRENT MODEL:
Intel Iris Plus Graphics 645 Gen9.5 300MHz 1.05GHz 48 EU
Simultaneously supports full native resolution on the built-in display at millions of colors and:

• One display with 5120‑by‑2880 resolution at 60Hz at over a billion colors
• Up to two displays with 4096‑by‑2304 resolution at 60Hz at millions of colors
• Up to two displays with 3840‑by‑2160 resolution at 60Hz at over a billion colors

NEW MODEL:
Intel Iris Plus Graphics Gen 11 300MHz 1.05GHz 64 EU
Simultaneously supports full native resolution on the built-in display at millions of colors and:

• One display with 5120‑by‑2880 resolution at 60Hz at over a billion colors
• Up to two displays with 4096‑by‑2304 resolution at 120Hz at millions of colors
• Up to two displays with 3840‑by‑2160 resolution at 120Hz at over a billion colors

MAYBE:

• Up to one display with 6016‑by‑3384 resolution at 60Hz at over a billion colors
• Up to three displays with 4096‑by‑2304 resolution at 60Hz at over a billion colors

DISPLAY new!

CURRENT MODEL:
13.3‑inch (diagonal) LED-backlit display with IPS technology; 2560‑by‑1600 native resolution at 227 pixels per inch with support for millions of colors
Supported scaled resolutions:

• 1680 by 1050
• 1440 by 900
• 1024 by 640

500 nits brightness
Wide color (P3)
True Tone technology

NEW MODEL:
13.3‑inch (diagonal) LED-backlit display with IPS technology; 2560‑by‑1600 native resolution at 227 pixels per inch with support for millions of colors
Supported scaled resolutions:

• 1680 by 1050
• 1440 by 900
• 1024 by 640

500 nits brightness
Wide color (P3)
True Tone technology
Refresh rates: 47.95Hz, 48.00Hz, 50.00Hz, 59.94Hz, 60.00Hz



WIRELESS new!

CURRENT MODEL
Wi‑Fi 802.11ac Wi‑Fi wireless networking
IEEE 802.11a/b/g/n compatible
Bluetooth 5.0 wireless technology

NEW MODEL:
802.11ax Wi‑Fi wireless networking
IEEE 802.11a/b/g/n/ac compatible
Bluetooth 5.0 wireless technology



PORTS same

CURRENT MODEL:
Two Thunderbolt 3 (USB‑C) ports with support for:

• Charging
• DisplayPort
• Thunderbolt (up to 40Gb/s)
• USB 3.1 Gen 2 (up to 10Gb/s)

Thunderbolt 3 digital video output

• Native DisplayPort output over USB‑C
• VGA, HDMI, DVI, and Thunderbolt 2 output supported using adapters (sold separately)

NEW MODEL:
Two Thunderbolt 3 (USB‑C) ports with support for:

• Charging
• DisplayPort
• Thunderbolt (up to 40Gb/s)
• USB 3.1 Gen 2 (up to 10Gb/s)

Thunderbolt 3 digital video output

• Native DisplayPort output over USB‑C
• VGA, HDMI, DVI, and Thunderbolt 2 output supported using adapters (sold separately)

PERIPHERALS new!

CURRENT MODEL:
Butterfly Keyboard
720p FaceTime HD camera
AUDIO:

• Stereo speakers with high dynamic range
• Three microphones
• 3.5 mm headphone jack

NEW MODEL:
Magic Keyboard
720p FaceTime HD camera
AUDIO:

• High‑fidelity six‑speaker system with force‑cancelling woofers
• Wide stereo sound
• Support for Dolby Atmos playback
• Three-mic array with high signal-to-noise ratio and directional beamforming
• 3.5 mm headphone jack

BATTERY new!

CURRENT MODEL:

• Up to 10 hours wireless web
• Up to 10 hours iTunes movie playback
• Up to 30 days of standby time
• Built‑in 58.2‑watt‑hour lithium‑polymer battery
• 61W USB‑C Power Adapter

NEW MODEL:

• Up to 11 hours wireless web
• Up to 11 hours Apple TV app movie playback
• Up to 30 days of standby time
• Built‑in 58.2‑watt‑hour lithium‑polymer battery2
• 61W USB‑C Power Adapter

 

[Falhófnir]

I'd love to buy a 13 or 14" with scissor keys, escape key, and configurable with a real graphics card (like the 16"). If the 13 doesn't hit the mark I guess I can fall back to buying the 16" but I really like the smaller size & weight. I plug into a monitor anyway, so the screen size itself isn't a big advantage to me.

The issue with adding a dGPU is they couldn't make it work in a 15" machine, let alone a 14" one. If there's a less powerful and cooler running Navi GPU you're probably going to be getting closer to Intel/ AMDs latest integrated graphics options which makes it more of a hindrance than a help. While a lot of Windows 13" class machines do have the likes of the MX250 (around the performance Intel is promising with Tiger lake anyway) they're invariably a lot bigger volumetrically than even the previous (2015) 13" Pro which would probably be the ceiling of size increase for this machine before you really start compromising on portability which is it's raison d'être at the end of the day.

@Aquamite - pretty much agree with your predictions but I do think they will bump base storage to 256GB and add the 4TB option. I could also see this model getting 4 TB 3 ports and the higher end one being dropped as there's very little reason to buy it currently. Alternatively, the $1,300 model goes at least another year without an update and all of these things are put into the $1,800 model.

 

[Aquamite]

@Aquamite - pretty much agree with your predictions but I do think they will bump base storage to 256GB and add the 4TB option. I could also see this model getting 4 TB 3 ports and the higher end one being dropped as there's very little reason to buy it currently. Alternatively, the $1,300 model goes at least another year without an update and all of these things are put into the $1,800 model.

The thing is there's a 28 W TDP Ice Lake U chips already announced that's suitable for the higher end 2020 13.3" MBP. So maybe we'll se a stepped release first with the lower end whose CPUs are already available, and maybe later in the year we'll have the higher end refresh available.

 

[AgentMcGeek]

Predictions over the new 2020 MacBook Pro 13.3" coming this spring replacing the base model 2019 13.3" MBP according to the latest Intel CPU Ice Lake releases:



CPU new!

CURRENT MODEL:
1.4GHz quad‑core Intel Core i5-8257U Coffee Lake 15 W TDP, Turbo Boost up to 3.9GHz, with 128MB of eDRAM
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...-8257u-processor-6m-cache-up-to-3-90-ghz.html
Configurable to 1.7GHz quad‑core Intel Core i7-8557U Coffee Lake 15 W TDP, Turbo Boost up to 4.5GHz, with 128MB of eDRAM
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...-8557u-processor-8m-cache-up-to-4-50-ghz.html


NEW MODEL:
1.2GHz quad‑core Intel Core i5-1035G7 Ice Lake 15 W TDP, Turbo Boost up to 3.7GHz, with 6MB of L3 memory
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/196592/intel-core-i5-1035g7-processor-6m-cache-up-to-3-70-ghz.html
Configurable to 1.3GHz quad‑core Intel Core i7-1065G7 Ice Lake 15 W TDP, Turbo Boost up to 3.9GHz, with 8MB of L3 memory
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/196597/intel-core-i7-1065g7-processor-8m-cache-up-to-3-90-ghz.html

I believe Apple always goes for 28W-TDP CPUs in its high end MBP13. I don’t see them downgrading at all, let alone to something as low as 15W.

 

[Aquamite]

I believe Apple always goes for 28W-TDP CPUs in its high end MBP13. I don’t see them downgrading at all, let alone to something as low as 15W.

They currently use 15 W CPUs on the base 13.3” MBP. Just read my post:

Predictions over the new 2020 MacBook Pro 13.3" coming this spring replacing the base model 2019 13.3" MBP according to the latest Intel CPU Ice Lake releases:



CPU new!

CURRENT MODEL:
1.4GHz quad‑core Intel Core i5-8257U Coffee Lake 15 W TDP, Turbo Boost up to 3.9GHz, with 128MB of eDRAM
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...-8257u-processor-6m-cache-up-to-3-90-ghz.html
Configurable to 1.7GHz quad‑core Intel Core i7-8557U Coffee Lake 15 W TDP, Turbo Boost up to 4.5GHz, with 128MB of eDRAM
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...-8557u-processor-8m-cache-up-to-4-50-ghz.html


NEW MODEL:
1.2GHz quad‑core Intel Core i5-1035G7 Ice Lake 15 W TDP, Turbo Boost up to 3.7GHz, with 6MB of L3 memory
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/196592/intel-core-i5-1035g7-processor-6m-cache-up-to-3-70-ghz.html
Configurable to 1.3GHz quad‑core Intel Core i7-1065G7 Ice Lake 15 W TDP, Turbo Boost up to 3.9GHz, with 8MB of L3 memory
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/196597/intel-core-i7-1065g7-processor-8m-cache-up-to-3-90-ghz.html



STORAGE same

CURRENT MODEL:
128GB SSD, 256GB, 512GB, 1TB, or 2TB SSD

NEW MODEL:
128GB SSD, 256GB, 512GB, 1TB, or 2TB SSD (MAYBE 4TB SSD)



MEMORY new!

CURRENT MODEL:
8GB of 2133MHz LPDDR3 onboard memory
Configurable to 16GB of memory


NEW MODEL:
8GB of 3733MHz LPDDR4 onboard memory
Configurable to 16GB of memory (32GB not likely)



GRAPHICS new!

CURRENT MODEL:
Intel Iris Plus Graphics 645 Gen9.5 300MHz 1.05GHz 48 EU
Simultaneously supports full native resolution on the built-in display at millions of colors and:

• One display with 5120‑by‑2880 resolution at 60Hz at over a billion colors
• Up to two displays with 4096‑by‑2304 resolution at 60Hz at millions of colors
• Up to two displays with 3840‑by‑2160 resolution at 60Hz at over a billion colors

NEW MODEL:
Intel Iris Plus Graphics Gen 11 300MHz 1.05GHz 64 EU
Simultaneously supports full native resolution on the built-in display at millions of colors and:

• One display with 5120‑by‑2880 resolution at 60Hz at over a billion colors
• Up to two displays with 4096‑by‑2304 resolution at 120Hz at millions of colors
• Up to two displays with 3840‑by‑2160 resolution at 120Hz at over a billion colors

MAYBE:

• Up to one display with 6016‑by‑3384 resolution at 60Hz at over a billion colors
• Up to three displays with 4096‑by‑2304 resolution at 60Hz at over a billion colors

DISPLAY new!

CURRENT MODEL:
13.3‑inch (diagonal) LED-backlit display with IPS technology; 2560‑by‑1600 native resolution at 227 pixels per inch with support for millions of colors
Supported scaled resolutions:

• 1680 by 1050
• 1440 by 900
• 1024 by 640

500 nits brightness
Wide color (P3)
True Tone technology

NEW MODEL:
13.3‑inch (diagonal) LED-backlit display with IPS technology; 2560‑by‑1600 native resolution at 227 pixels per inch with support for millions of colors
Supported scaled resolutions:

• 1680 by 1050
• 1440 by 900
• 1024 by 640

500 nits brightness
Wide color (P3)
True Tone technology
Refresh rates: 47.95Hz, 48.00Hz, 50.00Hz, 59.94Hz, 60.00Hz



WIRELESS new!

CURRENT MODEL
Wi‑Fi 802.11ac Wi‑Fi wireless networking
IEEE 802.11a/b/g/n compatible
Bluetooth 5.0 wireless technology

NEW MODEL:
802.11ax Wi‑Fi wireless networking
IEEE 802.11a/b/g/n/ac compatible
Bluetooth 5.0 wireless technology



PORTS same

CURRENT MODEL:
Two Thunderbolt 3 (USB‑C) ports with support for:

• Charging
• DisplayPort
• Thunderbolt (up to 40Gb/s)
• USB 3.1 Gen 2 (up to 10Gb/s)

Thunderbolt 3 digital video output

• Native DisplayPort output over USB‑C
• VGA, HDMI, DVI, and Thunderbolt 2 output supported using adapters (sold separately)

NEW MODEL:
Two Thunderbolt 3 (USB‑C) ports with support for:

• Charging
• DisplayPort
• Thunderbolt (up to 40Gb/s)
• USB 3.1 Gen 2 (up to 10Gb/s)

Thunderbolt 3 digital video output

• Native DisplayPort output over USB‑C
• VGA, HDMI, DVI, and Thunderbolt 2 output supported using adapters (sold separately)

PERIPHERALS new!

CURRENT MODEL:
Butterfly Keyboard
720p FaceTime HD camera
AUDIO:

• Stereo speakers with high dynamic range
• Three microphones
• 3.5 mm headphone jack

NEW MODEL:
Magic Keyboard
720p FaceTime HD camera
AUDIO:

• High‑fidelity six‑speaker system with force‑cancelling woofers
• Wide stereo sound
• Support for Dolby Atmos playback
• Three-mic array with high signal-to-noise ratio and directional beamforming
• 3.5 mm headphone jack

BATTERY new!

CURRENT MODEL:

• Up to 10 hours wireless web
• Up to 10 hours iTunes movie playback
• Up to 30 days of standby time
• Built‑in 58.2‑watt‑hour lithium‑polymer battery
• 61W USB‑C Power Adapter

NEW MODEL:

• Up to 11 hours wireless web
• Up to 11 hours Apple TV app movie playback
• Up to 30 days of standby time
• Built‑in 58.2‑watt‑hour lithium‑polymer battery2
• 61W USB‑C Power Adapter

 

[Falhófnir]

The thing is there's a 28 W TDP Ice Lake U chips already announced that's suitable for the higher end 2020 13.3" MBP. So maybe we'll se a stepped release first with the lower end whose CPUs are already available, and maybe later in the year we'll have the higher end refresh available.

They may choose to do it this way, it just seems a bit redundant to continue on with two internal designs when to the end user, they are to all practical intents and purposes the same machine. In one case, you get near identical specs, but one costs $1,499 and the other costs $1,799. The only thing you are really getting for that $300 is two additional TB 3 ports, as the real world difference between the 15 and 28 watt CPUs seems to be absolutely marginal between the 2019 models:

Going forward with only one design frees up resources for other things, and they won't be developing two separate computers that target very similar markets. This could be put towards the development of a machine like a 15" Air or an ARM MacBook that isn't currently served by Apple's lineup. And they can offer the same number of 13"Pro SKUs, but have a broader range of configurations available in store:

i5/8GB/256GB - $1,299
i5/16GB/512GB - $1,599
i7/8GB/512GB - $1,899
i7/16GB/1TB - $2,199

 

[adamcz]

The issue with adding a dGPU is they couldn't make it work in a 15" machine, let alone a 14" one. If there's a less powerful and cooler running Navi GPU you're probably going to be getting closer to Intel/ AMDs latest integrated graphics options which makes it more of a hindrance than a help.

Ah... didn't realize physical limitations were the reasoning behind this - thought it was more of a pricing issue. In that case it sounds like I'll have to consider the bigger laptop or an external GPU. Either way I'll wait a couple months to see if the specs for the smaller computer are released before I go ahead and buy the 16".

 

[SSD-GUY]

The thing is there's a 28 W TDP Ice Lake U chips already announced that's suitable for the higher end 2020 13.3" MBP. So maybe we'll se a stepped release first with the lower end whose CPUs are already available, and maybe later in the year we'll have the higher end refresh available.

So the 28W chips that are coming out in Q1 2020 for the 13” MBP, are they not replacements for the 28W Ice Lake U chips that you’re talking about?

I’m asking as I’m in the market for a new 13”, but can hold out if absolutely necessary till the end of the year too?

 

[Aquamite]

So the 28W chips that are coming out in Q1 2020 for the 13” MBP, are they not replacements for the 28W Ice Lake U chips that you’re talking about?

I’m asking as I’m in the market for a new 13”, but can hold out if absolutely necessary till the end of the year too?

They are replacements for the 15 W chips that are used on the current MBP 13” base models.

 

[fokmik]

Supposedly in March also the 10th gen 28W are coming to the market

 

[SSD-GUY]

They are replacements for the 15 W chips that are used on the current MBP 13” base models.

Ah ok. So from what I can tell, the part that is coming in Q1 2020 is the 28W Ice-Lake processor, however Intel have also announced that Tiger-Lake is coming out later in 2020. This leads to a few questions:

1. Is it worth waiting for Tiger Lake over Ice Lake?
2. Even though Intel have announced Tiger Lake to be coming out in 2020, in reality, will the 28W chips be out sometime in 2021? As in, when was Ice Lake meant to be available from and when was it actually available?
   
   

 

[Mohamed Kamal]

Is the low end MBP 13” 1299$ expected to be updated as well or just the higher end model? Is there any talk about the minimum storage being more than 128gb?

 

[Falhófnir]

Ah ok. So from what I can tell, the part that is coming in Q1 2020 is the 28W Ice-Lake processor, however Intel have also announced that Tiger-Lake is coming out later in 2020. This leads to a few questions:

1. Is it worth waiting for Tiger Lake over Ice Lake?
2. Even though Intel have announced Tiger Lake to be coming out in 2020, in reality, will the 28W chips be out sometime in 2021? As in, when was Ice Lake meant to be available from and when was it actually available?

Awkwardly it seems Ice Lake actually underperforms the latest comparable 14nm chipsets, so if you can wait and see whether Tiger Lake does any better I'd certainly do that. Looks like Intel's 10nm chips are still pretty broken, even if they've managed to get them to a 'sellable' condition.

 

[awesomedeluxe]

Awkwardly it seems Ice Lake actually underperforms the latest comparable 14nm chipsets, so if you can wait and see whether Tiger Lake does any better I'd certainly do that. Looks like Intel's 10nm chips are still pretty broken, even if they've managed to get them to a 'sellable' condition.

I saw this too--I think this anandtech article is a good read.

With Ice Lake looking like more and more of a bust, does it change anyone's perception on what Apple might use this year? AMD increasingly seems to have compelling options, with the Ryzen 4000 Renoir APUs and the mysterious "Van Gogh."

 

[Falhófnir]

I saw this too--I think this anandtech article is a good read.

With Ice Lake looking like more and more of a bust, does it change anyone's perception on what Apple might use this year? AMD increasingly seems to have compelling options, with the Ryzen 4000 Renoir APUs and the mysterious "Van Gogh."

I'd like to see some real world numbers from AMD first though, hearing quite a lot of chatter that the numbers AMD have given us are very selective to exaggerate how competitive these chips actually are even with Intel's stagnant lineup.

 

[littlepud]

I think the AMD chips show promise, but raw performance and/or selective benchmarks isn't really a concern. Having 8 cores in a 15W envelope is amazing, even if the 8 cores might be slightly slower than an 8-core Intel part (that couldn't fit in the 15W envelope anyway).

My main concern with AMD mobile chips is that AMD has traditionally been weaker at managing idle power. I'm typing this post I'm on a 45W 6-core i7 that's sipping less than 2W as I type.